Dating / Open Relationship Power Dynamics

[Damien]

Hey guys,

if anyone of you read my last posts, I started dating a low self-esteem crazy girl, that I like quite a lot by now but that's very hard to control. See https://boards.girlschase.com/viewto ... =3&t=17378

So we are sleeping together since Halloween and the sex is very good and she's always very sweet afterwards and I enjoy cuddling with her. She enjoys playing with guys and is quite a player, so at some parties she goes she kisses between 2-5 guys. I was the third guy she ever had sex with (so she told me and I believe her because she is very bad at lying) and it took me two months to get her. I don't really care if she kisses guys as long as I don't see it but I think it would be a problem for me if she would sleep with anotgher guy. So much for basic informations.

She is saying she doesn't care if I sleep with other girls and I have a fuckbuddy I had sex with multiple times during this time and she didn't care. This sunday I fucked a girl from my language course (first new girl since her), stayed over and also cuddled with that girl. All this I told to betold crazy girl. This time she cared and got angry, but more at herself than at me, because she said it's stupid that she cares. It's like she's fighting her own emotions. Today we talked for like 3h on whatsapp and I kind of indirectly assured her she's number one. Now she seems super happy and content again.

The problem is: I prefer it when she is a bit insecure about me, but she has very strong emotions so I think if she is in a state like this and gets drunk, the chances that she will sleep with someone else or cause huge drama go up 100 times. On the other hand now I think she's feeling too secure again and I don't like it.

So both dynamics I don't really like. Any tips on what to do? I would prefer for this whole thing to be more stable but I guess this girl is not the right person for sth stable.

Any tips would be very appreciated.

 

[Regal Tiger]

I'm stealing this from the blackdragonblog but I've noticed that when I follow this advice good things happen:

He advises that you should leave evidence that you're fucking other women but never have proof. So evidence that you're fucking other women would be something that is questionable, like other women giving you googoo eyes or writing on your facebook wall that they had fun hanging out with you last week. Or even go so far as to leave out a feminine item that was left at your house (I've had this one pair of girly sunglasses just laying around for like two years lol).

Proof is where you have new condoms in your trash can that weren't used with her. Proof is also telling your girl that you slept with someone else, even if she asks about it. It's not her business what happened between you and blank last weekend.

Evidence is good. Proof is bad.

Proof is like you saying "haha, I fucked somebody else! Thanks for letting me stick somebody else and still stay with me, slut"
Evidence is like saying "I'm attractive and am able to, and might, fuck somebody else but I still like you"

Proof makes her feel like less of a woman for not being able to hang onto a man, like she's not good enough
Evidence is out of sight and out of mind with an occasional and accidental reminder that you're still an attractive and high value man that likes, and has chosen to spend time with her.


Proof is rubbing her nose into it and even I would get annoyed by behavior like that (and I consider myself pretty easy going and free love and what have ya). Never just come out and tell someone that you fucked or are fucking or even would like to fuck another girl. When you're with a girl other girls don't matter (unless it's a threesome or moresome) because the girl in front of you is the only girl for you in that moment. It makes women feel special and that's all they really care about.

So feel free to have an open relationship and fuck other women, but don't brag about it and make her feel like shit. Because otherwise she's going to feel bad. And that goes for women that are both secure and insecure, but more so if they're insecure.

 

[Sandman]

Agreed with Regal Tiger

You never want to tell her explicitly that you are fucking other girls, you don't wanna turn it into a jealousy war.

She will know it anyway, girls smell that shit. If she asks you whether you fuck other girls give her a vague answer but implicitly let her know that you do. There are lots of ways of doing this. You can give her a devilish smile and ask her what she thinks and whatever answer she gives you, you can just shrug and tell her while you are with her you don't wanna talk about other girls.

And try to be ok with her fucking other guys, she is not your property. If you are strong, give her orgasm and an emotional connection she probably will be exclusive to you by herself. I've had this with multiple girls. It is not easy not to care but remind yourself that she is not yours and focus on bringing other women into your life. It can even give you a little motivation boost.

 

[Damien]

Hey Regal Tiger,

thanks for the advice. This is actually how I always used to handle this stuff. The thing is we talked a lot about me being a little bit of a player from the start and she always wants to know all the details. Like she is telling me it would be much worse if I would be lying and asking me questions like "are you going out tonight", "are there any pretty girls", "how many did you kiss", " how was the sex". If she's asking me this explicitly it feels bad for me to lie in her face. Also she seems to enjoy it if I get other pussy. Sunday was the first time she cared. And it was definitely because I showed her indirectly I liked that girl.

Also I like telling her this stuff. Especially because she tells me every fucking time how many guys she made out with or what guy she's having lunch with at the time. I feel like if I wouldn't do this she would feel like she got me too much, because she in fact is evaluating other options but I'm not, or at least she doesn't know about them.

Any thoughts about that?

And do you have a link to said article?

 

[Damien]

Agreed with Regal Tiger

You never want to tell her explicitly that you are fucking other girls, you don't wanna turn it into a jealousy war.

She will know it anyway, girls smell that shit. If she asks you whether you fuck other girls give her a vague answer but implicitly let her know that you do. There are lots of ways of doing this. You can give her a devilish smile and ask her what she thinks and whatever answer she gives you, you can just shrug and tell her while you are with her you don't wanna talk about other girls.

And try to be ok with her fucking other guys, she is not your property. If you are strong, give her orgasm and an emotional connection she probably will be exclusive to you by herself. I've had this with multiple girls. It is not easy not to care but remind yourself that she is not yours and focus on bringing other women into your life. It can even give you a little motivation boost.

Okay this makes sense in my head. I will change the explicit answers to yeah I'm busy tonight. It is definitely a bit of a jealousy war already. I'm just thinking this could make her suspicous because I gave her explicit answers for like 3 months now and suddenly changing that, she would definitely notice. Also I really don't know if I would be okay if she would sleep with sb else. I never cared much if girls have other dudes, but with this one it's different. Probably because it was comparably very hard to get her and she's prettier then I'm used to be able to keep around. Sleeping with girls of her beauty is quite normal for me.

If she's kissing other guys I only care if she's doing it right in front of me, which she did already. Right now we are not at the same parties a lot, but next semester we will, because she is here on an exchange program and I'm a tutor for them. So first month of the new people in town is always madness.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Hey Regal Tiger,

thanks for the advice.

Happy to help!

This is actually how I always used to handle this stuff. The thing is we talked a lot about me being a little bit of a player from the start and she always wants to know all the details.

Then in my opinion, you have set a bad precedent and it is my opinion that you should try to change it.

Since I don’t know anything about this girl, maybe she is just the type that likes to know all of the details. While I haven’t personally gotten involved with women like that I have heard of them. So having said that, plus with what you have said, it sounds like you’re only indulging her insecurities and she may even seek out situations that make her feel bad so she can validate whatever it is that she wants to validate (I don’t deserve better, or I always choose guys like this or even see it wasn’t my fault the relationship ended or whatever else. Those are just the ones that come to mind).

Like she is telling me it would be much worse if I would be lying and asking me questions like "are you going out tonight", "are there any pretty girls", "how many did you kiss", " how was the sex".

It’s not lying to tell her that you don’t want to talk about it. Personally speaking, that would get unbelievably annoying if somebody hit me with questions like those. Like, okay mom, I’m gonna go rawdog a hooker in front of a police station since you’re so curious (after trying to be playful and deflect it at first).

If she's asking me this explicitly it feels bad for me to lie in her face. Also she seems to enjoy it if I get other pussy. Sunday was the first time she cared. And it was definitely because I showed her indirectly I liked that girl.

Then don’t lie, but doesn’t mean that you’re obligated to answer.
Fun example (obviously don’t tell me): what’s your social security numer? What’s your bank account number? Is it lying to say that you don’t want to answer? No

Also I like telling her this stuff.

Then find a girl that loves to hear about it. Which maybe you have, but I don’t believe you have. Again, I’m only going off what you’ve said.

Otherwise you’ll have to go without which I believe to be healthier.

Especially because she tells me every fucking time how many guys she made out with or what guy she's having lunch with at the time.

This would really worry me and would be cause to end a relationship from my perspective. If I don’t ask then don’t tell me. If I ask then thatydifferent.

I feel like if I wouldn't do this she would feel like she got me too much, because she in fact is evaluating other options but I'm not, or at least she doesn't know about them.

Ehh, I’ve always operated under the flag of discretion and never run into an issue of her thinking I have no other options. Also, the evidence in my first post would help you out here as well.

And do you have a link to said article?

It’s actually in one of his books, not an article :/

If you’re interested in which ones I recommend or which one it’s in I can tell ya

Sent from phone so probably some typos

 

[Damien]

Thanks again for the answer. Yeah I think I sat bad precedent in the beginning. But this jealousy stuff was also the way I got her, like being very obvious with other girls around her, while she was busy with other guys and not giving a fuck about her until she came running for me at the end of the night. (The crazy first exchange month here.) Basically I was a better player than her...
And yes I do like telling success stories about girls to others, my ego is too big for that.

Let's see how I can reverse this. How would you ask her to stop telling me about the guys she kissed / is talking to? I think it's part of why she likes me because she can tell me everything. It doesn't bother me too much usually, but it incentivises me to tell her my stuff.

I just found the passage in his "System Open Relationships". I messed up some stuff already, because I was a little bit too emotional about this girl. She played me really well. -.-
And yeah I'm interested in what other books you liked about this topic!

It is actually annoying me how much effect this girl has on me. I usually really am not like this. I'm also quite adept at having multiple FWBs at the same time, I should have been much smarter from the start... And yeah I still have problems landing quality girlfriends. That's why I idealized her I think and fell for her.

 

[Damien]

So having said that, plus with what you have said, it sounds like you’re only indulging her insecurities and she may even seek out situations that make her feel bad so she can validate whatever it is that she wants to validate (I don’t deserve better, or I always choose guys like this or even see it wasn’t my fault the relationship ended or whatever else. Those are just the ones that come to mind).

Ah and I think you're nailing it here. She was in two relationships before and in the first one she started "cheating" on the guy because he didn't go with her to enough parties so she went alone and some point started kissing guys and her guy considered kissing cheating. So she said she saw the first 1 - 1.5 years of her second relationship as a punishment lol. Very strange ideas that girl has. So you think I should stop validating her insecurities?

 

[Regal Tiger]

Thanks again for the answer. Yeah I think I sat bad precedent in the beginning. But this jealousy stuff was also the way I got her, like being very obvious with other girls around her, while she was busy with other guys and not giving a fuck about her until she came running for me at the end of the night. (The crazy first exchange month here.) Basically I was a better player than her...

That sounds like a red flag to me...

And yes I do like telling success stories about girls to others, my ego is too big for that.

Write up lay reports instead lol

Let's see how I can reverse this. How would you ask her to stop telling me about the guys she kissed / is talking to? I think it's part of why she likes me because she can tell me everything. It doesn't bother me too much usually, but it incentivises me to tell her my stuff.

The only way to do it that I know of that wouldn't cause any major (hopefully) problems is to just stop validating her stories. And by that I mean don't give her any attention when she starts in on her stories. Pull out your phone, be bored, ask generic boring ass questions if you have to. Basically, just don't pay any attention to her. Eventually she will pick up on it (hopefully).

I'd be interested to hear what other people's opinions are on this point.

Also, that's the rule of reciprocity kicking in. Because she shares you feel guilty if you don't share. So be more selfish lol. And just know that you're probably helping her by not over-sharing.

Is it fine to share tidbits about certain situations? Sure, but make the story about the situation. Leave out names and dates and any kind of identifiers. She'll notice a difference and you'll just have to put your foot down here. Because of past behavior it will probably cause a little bit of drama. It's anyone's guess what'll happen after that.

I just found the passage in his "System Open Relationships". I messed up some stuff already, because I was a little bit too emotional about this girl. She played me really well. -.-
And yeah I'm interested in what other books you liked about this topic!

The only books I've read about Open Relationships are BlackDragon's books, of which that I have read I recommend:
1. The Unchained Man: The Alpha Male 2.0 ==> for everybody, some good stuff in here that I think everybody can find useful

2. Dating Women – Getting To Sex As Quickly As Possible => BD advocates a two date system. If you're following GirlsChase info then you don't honestly need this book. But if you're more of a beginner then I would recommend it simply for more diverse viewpoints to help you find what works best for you. But if you're not a beginner then I don't recommend this book

3. How To Create And Maintain Open Relationships With Women => self-explanatory with the title and I think that it's a pretty good book. HOWEVER he is making a new relationships book that will probably be coming out within the next few weeks and will be much bigger. He did the same thing with his online dating eBook and if he follows the same pattern, it'll be a lot of the same stuff plus a whole lot more. So definitely just wait for the newer one, it'll be the exact same price

4. There is an ultimate online dating book that is on there as well, but you have to click on one of the other online dating books first to be re-routed to the ultimate online dating book (weird I know). For that I only recommend if you're kinda newer to online dating and perhaps if you're an intermediate at it as well. I found the book to be very good quality, but I didn't learn anything new because I'd already been at this myself for a few years when it came out and most of it I already knew or doesn't gel with my personal system. So if you're newer at online dating or even intermediate at it, definitely recommend

It is actually annoying me how much effect this girl has on me. I usually really am not like this. I'm also quite adept at having multiple FWBs at the same time, I should have been much smarter from the start... And yeah I still have problems landing quality girlfriends. That's why I idealized her I think and fell for her.

Yea, just need more experience for that. You might be on the edge of a breakthrough though! So that's good news!
Chase talks about it here: https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-d ... akthroughs

So you think I should stop validating her insecurities?

Yes if that is indeed what they are, which it sounds like it is but I'll never know for 100% certainty. Up to you to decide if I'm right or not.

 

[Damien]

The only way to do it that I know of that wouldn't cause any major (hopefully) problems is to just stop validating her stories. And by that I mean don't give her any attention when she starts in on her stories. Pull out your phone, be bored, ask generic boring ass questions if you have to. Basically, just don't pay any attention to her. Eventually she will pick up on it (hopefully).

I already started doing this, it was annoying me so I just checked out mentally, it already got better.

So yesterday I went out and she asked me if I did sth with a girl and I was being jokingly evasive and she demanded an answer. I explained her maybe it would be better to not tell everything because she freaked out on monday. Then she got really angry and told me if we can't be honest she can't continue seeing me So I told her well, I can tell you everything but if this happens again, you have to explain to me the reasons why you got angry, so I can work them out. She told me she doesn't care about physical stuff like kissing and sex from my side, but she does care when I have emotions for another girl. So I guess the best strategy for me will be still telling her that basic stuff, but even if I start liking another girl, just avoid that piece of information. It doesn't happen too often for me anyway, she just misinterpreted my behavior as me having emotions, because I stayed over at that other girls place and also cuddled with her.

3. How To Create And Maintain Open Relationships With Women => self-explanatory with the title and I think that it's a pretty good book. HOWEVER he is making a new relationships book that will probably be coming out within the next few weeks and will be much bigger. He did the same thing with his online dating eBook and if he follows the same pattern, it'll be a lot of the same stuff plus a whole lot more. So definitely just wait for the newer one, it'll be the exact same price

4. There is an ultimate online dating book that is on there as well, but you have to click on one of the other online dating books first to be re-routed to the ultimate online dating book (weird I know). For that I only recommend if you're kinda newer to online dating and perhaps if you're an intermediate at it as well. I found the book to be very good quality, but I didn't learn anything new because I'd already been at this myself for a few years when it came out and most of it I already knew or doesn't gel with my personal system. So if you're newer at online dating or even intermediate at it, definitely recommend

I read that book and I think I will get his new one when it comes out!

Yea, just need more experience for that. You might be on the edge of a breakthrough though! So that's good news!
Chase talks about it here: https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-d ... akthroughs

I really hope so! He also has the article on crazy girls being the ones with whom you break through, so I can see the pattern here. And that's why It's good this relationship is open so far, because I can cement my gains.

 

[Regal Tiger]

So yesterday I went out and she asked me if I did sth with a girl and I was being jokingly evasive and she demanded an answer. I explained her maybe it would be better to not tell everything because she freaked out on monday. Then she got really angry and told me if we can't be honest she can't continue seeing me So I told her well, I can tell you everything but if this happens again, you have to explain to me the reasons why you got angry, so I can work them out.

That was a test that you failed. If you say something then you have to follow through and own it. If you don't you look weak.

She told me she doesn't care about physical stuff like kissing and sex from my side, but she does care when I have emotions for another girl.

That's usually the case. As a general rule, it's men that care if anything physical happened.

So I guess the best strategy for me will be still telling her that basic stuff, but even if I start liking another girl, just avoid that piece of information. It doesn't happen too often for me anyway, she just misinterpreted my behavior as me having emotions, because I stayed over at that other girls place and also cuddled with her.

No, the best strategy is to pick something and absolutely stick with it. What I personally believe should happen is that you stop telling this girl any of your stories (with the exceptions of funny/interesting/whatever situations and even then I dunno if it would be best for her), but that's something that you'll have to figure out on your own if you want to follow or not.

I really hope so! He also has the article on crazy girls being the ones with whom you break through, so I can see the pattern here. And that's why It's good this relationship is open so far, because I can cement my gains.

As long as you don't get too caught up in the crazy girl. Crazy women have a way of sucking you in that you have to be wary of.

 

[Damien]

That was a test that you failed. If you say something then you have to follow through and own it. If you don't you look weak.

Well maybe, but I didn't tell her I don't want to tell her anything anymore. I told her maybe it's better to do so, because she freaked out and then she explained me her reasoning why I should which she didn't do before. I did not say I will never tell anything again and then did it anyway. So I don't think that was too much damage here.

The point is, this whole thing only started because I was being super honest with her. She has some big trust issues and it took me a long time to get her to open up. So I can understand from her point of view that she needs this honesty, because it's like the foundation of this relationship. Even if it is hurting her sometimes, she prefers it and I'm pretty sure she'll end it if I stop being honest.

As long as you don't get too caught up in the crazy girl. Crazy women have a way of sucking you in that you have to be wary of.

I'm noticing this right now.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Well maybe, but I didn't tell her I don't want to tell her anything anymore. I told her maybe it's better to do so, because she freaked out and then she explained me her reasoning why I should which she didn't do before. I did not say I will never tell anything again and then did it anyway. So I don't think that was too much damage here.

Ahh, misunderstood ya

The point is, this whole thing only started because I was being super honest with her. She has some big trust issues and it took me a long time to get her to open up. So I can understand from her point of view that she needs this honesty, because it's like the foundation of this relationship. Even if it is hurting her sometimes, she prefers it and I'm pretty sure she'll end it if I stop being honest.

I'm gonna disagree here based on my own experiences, but like I've said a few times I don't know this girl so I could be wrong. I just don't think I am lol

I'm noticing this right now.

Just be careful bro

 

[Damien]

First thanks for being so attentative!

I'm gonna disagree here based on my own experiences

You think she won't end it?

 

[Regal Tiger]

I'm gonna disagree here based on my own experiences

You think she won't end it?

No I meant I disagree with the part about over-sharing/hyper honesty. And if putting her in pain is the foundation for your relationship that to me spells disaster.

But maybe that's the kinda stuff you both need, which is a possibility.