Dear Present and Future "Trolls"

[PinotNoir]

I wrote this post initially to xantarex, but that thread got deleted, so I never got to post it. I saved it and stumbled upon it today and decided to release it into the wild. I imagine this thread may get deleted, but that's fine.

Dear X,

You're coming here with a lot of broad-sweeping statements, generalizations, and assumptions about this community -- on the very first post. I feel like you haven't taken the time to understand anything about this site with an open mind. You should not blindly follow/support, but you should also not blindly be against/judge.

Emptiness the starting point. — In order to taste my cup of water you must first empty your cup. My friend, drop all your preconceived and fixed ideas and be neutral. Do you know why this cup is useful? Because it is empty."

The only person you hurt when you're close-minded is yourself. If you have read and tried the material here and it has not worked for you, then that is fine. There is plenty of other advice to read on the internet. This isn't a magic pill; it's just one of many methodologies. It's up to you to find the best one that works for your life.

def. Daygame - cold approaching tens of thousands of girls on the street for years

This is definitely not how I would define day game.

To me, day game is simply seeing a woman during the day and asking her on a date. That's it.

This could be while out for lunch, shopping, running errands, getting coffee, etc. You do not have to go out specifically looking for women and approach X amount of times.

However, if you wish to improve your day game, then that is another matter:

• Get experience (actually going out instead of playing video games)
• Overcome Approach Anxiety (be a man of action that approaches beautiful women; wish to take control of your life)
• Learn how to make a good first impression with pre-openining/opening and fundamentals (is it bad to learn how to make a better first impression for a job interview?)
• Give a great compliment that makes her feel good and warm (is it wrong to make a woman feel desired?)
• Flirt and banter correctly with playful energy and converse on deep/interesting/unique topics
• Understand key signs (i.e., escalation windows) and the best time to ask for her number (if a woman is giving you clear signs, she wants you to ask her out; is it wrong to giver her what she wants? a man that will follow through?)
• Be socially savvy enough to know when persistence becomes forcing (even if you don't date, you want her to feel good after the interaction)
• Know how to continue the process of dating to make it the most enjoyable for her and yourself

Basketball is a game. You can merely play it when an opportunity arises (i.e., when your friends set up a pickup game = when your friend sets you up on a blind date), or you can decide to go outside and improve upon it.

No one will do all of these perfectly. We all come here to learn and better ourselves.

- Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group (at least 3-5 times week, 10k+ approaches, forums).
- The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them (some say: 'first 1k appraoches is just warming up, you must do that to have sex').

Completely false. A person can never approach a single girl and still post here on the forums. There are no requirements and no hazing. However, it would be more beneficial to yourself and others if you did.

There's a "marriage" section on the boards. A married guy could come here and be an active member in that section without ever dating a single girl (except for his wife).

1k is not required for sex. If you do not wish to approach women, you can simply do online dating and discuss that in the forums. Again, there are no forced requirements. You can pick and choose what you want.

- The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members. (daygamers are doing things nobody does and that's why we're special contributors to humanity)
- The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

I definitely don't view myself as better than anyone else. Everyone has differing views. The reason why most guys come here? They've tried the traditional dating route in life, and it just didn't work for them. If a guy follows the traditional route by society, I do not look down upon him or view him any less.

Everyone is accepted to the boards (assuming they don't spam and/or break board rules).

Virgin? Haven't dated a girl ever? We'd definitely love you here, and we'll embrace you as any other member.

Black? White? Christian? Muslim? Buddhist? No problem.

It's also not bad to have different views than the traditional. Search "heliocentric vs geocentric" on Google. A lot of people disagreed with Galileo, but he was right. We're constantly evolving and changing, and in 10000 years, GC's material may not even be applicable anymore.

And just because we don't follow the norms of our society doesn't mean that we look down upon those that do.

- The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment (find a PUA and follow his methods & tricks).

I definitely disagree with some of Chase's material, and this is due to different personal life experiences.

However, almost all (if not all) articles follow a scientific process that requires trying the material to see if it works or not, not a dogmatic religious process that is to be followed unquestionably. Through experience I've found most of it to work for me, but it may not work for others. There is also a comments section to argue/discuss any points made in the article.

If you follow something and it doesn't work, then you must change it and try something different. Most people that come to GC are of an age to understand this. If they are 13, I think the material is presented in a way to not be dogmatic in form. Really, if you're 13+, you should be able to think critically for yourself.

- Cult members lavish the leader in luxury (giving him hard earned money on coaching, bootcamps etc).

I only pay for the subscription because I have enjoyed the articles (and forums), and therefore, wish the servers to stay up. I have never sent Chase a diamond ring

If I did not believe in the material and did not enjoy the articles, I would cancel my subscription. It's that simple. View it as paying for Cable TV.


If you don't try the material here and continue flaming/spamming the boards, then it won't hurt me. But, refusing to try free advice, only hurts yourself. If it doesn't work, like I said a million times, then try something else. To try out the basic articles (fundamentals and approach), you only need to go out one day; that's only one day wasted. There are no chains here. This is just a discussion board... like sitting by an ancient Greek fountain discussing Aristotle or Plato. You're free to ignore and to walk away. But, if you are unsatisfied with your dating life, I hope that you instead try to change your life for the better; if not here, then somewhere else.

Sincerely,
-PN

 

[xantarex]

Talking to girls is an integral part of your life. It is a skill in a way, but it's not like learning to play basketball. Playing basketball is a recent human thing and you practice it separately for years to become good, because it's not been around for billions of years with many species like mating was/is.
The biggest problem might be watching shitty movies and taking too much advice from women. Cut that shit out and you'll instinctively know what to do. There are millions and millions of men who don't 'study pickup' and sleep with hundreds of girls and have highest quality girlfriends. They usually do things that contribute to humanity in many ways.

If you need to practice it as a skill separately for many, many years, then you are completely damaged.
It's fine to be damaged and admit it, but then please don't call yourself powerful. Bill Gates is powerful, average PUAtard is not!

If the goal of the site is to teach you how to get girls to chase you, then chasing them on the streets for years is doing completely opposite thing.

If you want girls to chase you, then you become a man, a powerful man that women want, not just some creepy PUAtard.

 

[Nova]

he makes me laugh

 

[Eternity]

Cancel ur account. End of story.

 

[TheWiseFool]

I wrote a really long post, but I think these three quotes best summarize what I want to say.

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do.
~ Benjamin Franklin

Nobody's easier to fool . . . than the person who is convinced that he is right.
― Haruki Murakami

It is reckless to make broad generalizations about any group of people.
~ Roger Ebert

It would be foolish to continue attempting to explain to this boy that which time itself can only teach.

Oh, and this helps, too...:

 

[Oskar]

The biggest problem might be watching shitty movies and taking too much advice from women. Cut that shit out and you'll instinctively know what to do.

I agree with your sentiment here Xantarex, this is an important early stage in developing yourself as a man, however, these are primarily passive and are some of the earlier things you can do on your road to individuation and developing your social worth. At some point some men decide to take the chance out of it by taking charge and actively developing their character and not just reacting, but actively seeking results themselves.

I also agree that if you want to be attractive you shouldn't focus entirely on seduction, however, it is a way of looking at things that is quite empowering, as it permeates most all levels of social interaction, and is an area of study/art that has in fact helped a lot of people. Check out Robert Greene's book "The Art of Seduction" to get a more solid grasp of what seduction is all about. I'd also recommend you read some of Chase's articles with an open mind before you start projecting your feeling of weakness onto other people (perhaps start with his one on seeking reactions instead of results). Bad vibes aren't welcome here. If you disagree with something, that's fine, it's actually great as it provides everyone an opportunity to question and grow -- however there is no reason to be hostile or disrespectful. There is nothing worse than someone who adamantly refuses to think for themselves -- blindly following someone or reacting against them, all the while thinking their opinions are their own or aren't reactionary.

Personally, I find GC and its forum to be one of the most positive, empowering communities around. There are a lot of cool, supportive people here, and they legitimately want to make themselves stronger in as many or more ways than you yourself do, and also want to help one another, regardless of each other's skill level. Yes, it's not perfect, far from it, but I think it's still a pretty amazing resource, all things considered.

How many forums of any sort do you think would tolerate someone acting the way you've been acting here. Why are you acting so disrespectfully? Has anyone here hurt you? Read Marcus Aurelius's Meditations to get a grasp on who is the only person who can really hurt you (Hint: it's you).

Obviously don't devote your whole life to pick-up, if you do you will probably be disappointed, however, it makes for an empowering and enjoyable hobby, and if other men devote themselves to it, even if they devote their whole life to it, what's it to you?

A core idea I think on GC is to not get so emotionally involved with pick-up or really anything that it begins to completely define you. In my opinion, Chase does an excellent job in conveying how the end is important to consider in all things.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is: mind your own business and do your best to do good and be good, whatever that might mean to you. Don't worry about what other people are doing. And also, try not to bring negativity into places that are focused on being positive.

-Oskar

 

[xantarex]

@TheWiseFool

You know what's funny? People you are quoting didn't creep girls out on the streets for years. Meeting women was usually part of their awesome life. The problem for PUAtards is that those type of people don't brag, write blogs or field reports about squirting yogurt in some girl's vagina. Millions and millions of men are able to get highest quality girlfriends and sleep with ton of women.

Creepy PUAtards are just nerds with average life that didn't talk/were rejected by girls before.

If you approach 300 girls and don't get laid, ask yourself what is wrong. Ask yourself why 299 girls rejected you. Was that 1 girl just horny and she would fuck anybody who approached her? It makes for a good hero story, a guy goes through rejections and those rejections will somehow make him powerful. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth]

Why would you want to be rejected? Sure, everyone who tries something will be rejected or fail sometimes, but not PUA amount of rejections(thousands). Maybe the solution is not in using some new method or changing the 'opener' . If you are self-improvement oriented, why don't you become a truly powerful man people will quote and girls will chase? Even if you are above-average in bed, you can't show that because 99% of girls will reject you when you creep them out on the street.

P.S. Why are you labeling anyone who has opposite opinion as a 'troll'? Respond with facts, not internet memes and other silly things.

 

[PinotNoir]

Well, I'll continue on into this black hole....

Talking to girls is an integral part of your life. It is a skill in a way, but it's not like learning to play basketball. Playing basketball is a recent human thing and you practice it separately for years to become good, because it's not been around for billions of years with many species like mating was/is.

Fine, I'll change this metaphor slightly to running. We've been running since we evolved from apes. In fact, that's an integral physical part that makes us "human." "Naturals" have been picking up women since an early age, but let's say you wind up at a late age without all of this prior experience. How do you learn? You have to get out and start "running"; you have to work on overcoming approach anxiety; etc. Running in essence is just talking with women and getting better. I believe that people can either be beginners or advanced at social skills -- just talking with each other, and I believe people can improve their social skills. It sounds like you are denying this. That's all this seduction stuff is about. You realize your "level." You go out and improve your social skills, your looks, etc.

The biggest problem might be watching shitty movies and taking too much advice from women. Cut that shit out and you'll instinctively know what to do. There are millions and millions of men who don't 'study pickup' and sleep with hundreds of girls and have highest quality girlfriends. They usually do things that contribute to humanity in many ways.

First, Chase actually suggests movies may be an issue on creating a wrong model. You agree with Chase here.

Second, your other point has been addressed a million times.... Everyone here agrees that you should be pursuing an ambition. In fact, Chase has countless articles on this and on how to do it, just search the main site.

If you need to practice it as a skill separately for many, many years, then you are completely damaged.
It's fine to be damaged and admit it, but then please don't call yourself powerful. Bill Gates is powerful, average PUAtard is not!

I'm not sure why practicing anything as a skill would make anyone damaged, but ok. But, if someone is practicing it for years without some results and improvement, then they need to think differently about how they're doing things. Try different things.

Bill Gates has a lot of money, sure. I definitely don't want to be Bill Gates, and I definitely don't want to date or marry his wife. In my eyes, he has ruined software, but that is an entirely different debate that could go on forever. Microsoft has never even open sourced notepad.exe.... notepad, people. He's never been about the advancement of software, but about money. Plain and simple. He donates billions to people and is still the richest man alive. If I was that rich, I'd donate billions too, no problem. If you want to worship Bill Gates as a god and pursue being like him, that's fine, but no thanks for me. Really, you should be working on writing code and building hardware and not wasting your time on PUA forums.

If the goal of the site is to teach you how to get girls to chase you, then chasing them on the streets for years is doing completely opposite thing.

If you want girls to chase you, then you become a man, a powerful man that women want, not just some creepy PUAtard.

I think there's an intersection here of agreement.

You should become a powerful man. You should become a man that women want. So very true!

But, firstly, there are powerful men without beautiful women in their lives.... they don't know what to do or are afraid to approach or screw up the dates or relationship, etc., etc. These men don't get the type of women that they want, and they marry fast. There are of course men that are powerful and successful that are also successful with women. But, success in life does not necessarily equal success with countless beautiful women. Tom Cruise hasn't dated a single girl since Katie Holmes divorce..... And, can you get the women you want that high up? Can you get sex easily without having to spend tons of your hard-earned money? Can you get a woman that's faithful and that's not a gold digger? You still have to wade through the waters and learn skills to get through it.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that while you're becoming successful.... you'll want to date. If it takes you 10 years to become Bill Gates, then should you be alone for 10 years? Seems little odd to me. Seems like just "waiting until you're successful" is not very good advice to me.

You can learn WITHOUT guys giving you advice, but it takes a lot of personal failures and experience....more so than just talking with a buddy or reading material from a person that has already experienced it.

I can't speak for Chase directly, but I can say that 50% of your post is in agreement with Chase's articles. That means that you are agreeing with a PUAtard. OMG, could it be.... could it be that you are turning into a PUAtard? Welcome to the dark side. We have cake.

P.S. Why are you labeling anyone who has opposite opinion as a 'troll'? Respond with facts, not internet memes and other silly things.

I hate to point fingers.... but, pretty much all of your posts have been attacking and using words like PUAtard before we started calling you a troll. You labeled us way before we ever labeled you.

 

[Eternity]

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil"

Leave him be, he's a blind boy that can't see...

 

[Marty]

Xantarex,

I profoundly disagree with you; not because I have absorbed dogma which states that I should, but based upon my own faculties of critical thinking and argumentation.

The first point to note is that you clearly accept some of the material taught here as valuable, else you would not spend your time posting here. It's a question of actions versus words.

Regarding your assertion that "millions of men" are capable of sleeping with "hundreds of women" each, without specialist assistance and while contributing richly to humanity... I'm not sure how many exactly you mean, but let's say it's 30 million: that's about 1% of the global male population, which is consistent with recent received wisdom in the media that the "top 1%" of individuals are high-achievers: the CEOs, successful startup founders, élite surgeons, attorneys, scientific innovators and private-equity and i-bank bosses. Okay. I simply don't believe that the majority of those necessarily know what they're doing with women.

Very, very few men are able to have sexual relations with 100 or more women in their lifetime.

May I propose a little thought-experiment. Take three men: let's call them Adam, Barry and Chuck.

Adam

Adam is a medical researcher with a stellar career path. In the course of his work, he discovers a vaccine against breast cancer that transforms the lives of millions of women worldwide. He is slated to be remembered forever in the annals of medicine.

Every day Adam receives hundreds of letters from women telling him in gushing terms how grateful they are for his scientific insight that has enabled them to lead productive lives free of the threat of disease.

To each letter Adam replies in simple terms: "Thank you for your message. Kindly send a recent photograph."

Upon receiving the photos, Adam enters into correspondence with the prettiest women and after the exchange of a handful of messages, he finally gathers the courage to ask her to visit him in the university for dinner.

This message is greeted by each and every woman who receives it with an exclamation of: "OMG he wants to sleep with me! I was just congratulating him on his research. What a creeper, eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!" before the letter is torn up and consigned to the wastebasket, never to receive a reply.

Barry

Barry is the CEO of a major publicly-traded company. He is young and has risen swiftly through the ranks; the company's share price has gone through the roof since he was appointed chief executive, and he is being fêted on the cover of Fortune as the next Bill Gates.

Every so often, Barry condescends to "walk the floor" of his corporate offices. When he spots an attractive young woman, he asks her to visit him in the executive suite later that afternoon.

She arrives and he asks about her current lowly position. After a brief conversation on her aspirations and abilities, he says he feels she can handle a little more responsibility and promotes her to line manager. She will have a separate office, a secretary and a company vehicle at her disposal. He points out that her new role will require delicate understanding of a few sensitive issues in the company, and asks her whether she is available to discuss it over dinner that evening.

The more experienced and mature among the women smile at this point, decline politely and write a letter of resignation the following morning to avoid any potential awkwardness.

The young and naïve ones exclaim: "I thought he was just being nice, he wants to date me, eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! OMG eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!! Ewwmmmmmchch..." —the final sound being her slamming both hands over her mouth in a futile effort to prevent herself from retching as she dashes from the room and the building, never to return.

Chuck

Chuck has done nothing in life to earn recognition or leave behind a legacy. He works as an ordinary white-collar middle-manager, barely expending the effort required to remain in position, yet dabbling enough in corporate politics to put him on a lazy trajectory toward Director or Vice-President in a few years' time and thus secure himself a comfortable, but by no means spectacular, standard of living.

He wisely uses the time thus freed up to study the principles taught on this site and put them into practice through constant hard work.

As a result, by the age of 45, he has slept with 200 women, many of whom are half his age. A significant proportion of his past lovers remain friends with him, and respond eagerly to any message they receive from him within a few minutes. If he has time to see them, they are more than happy to oblige. Most of the others are now in settled relationships and prefer to remain constant to their husbands, but whenever they think of Chuck, they smile enigmatically and still feel a stirring in their loins.

If I had the choice of the above three lives, there's no contest: I'd choose Chuck every time.

-Marty

 

[PinotNoir]

I think xantarex might actually be Chase pulling an April Fools prank!

The article today got me. I started reading and was like, "What? Am I at the right site? Is Chase going down hill?" Then I read the comments and was like, "duh, april fools man." Got me hard.... (edit: not sexually)

 

[Chase]

xanatrex is now permanently banned from the boards.

I warned him about trolling on the 20th of March and instructed him that we're happy to have him here if he wants to genuinely contribute, but he needs to spend a little time getting acquainted with the material taught on this site and the culture on the boards here before he goes wading into a full-on "I'm right and you guys are all wrong" streak with blanket statements about PUAs, often about things that do not apply here or go against what I and the other writers and senior members of the boards all preach and practice.

I dislike banning people, but if all they want to do is stir the pot, there are a million other places on the Internet they can go do that; this isn't one of them.

Chase

 

[PinotNoir]

I just wanted to say that I feel bad for getting the dude banned, but it's probably best that he's not writing negative stuff all the time now. I think it was making the community worst.

I just wanted to address some of his issues that maybe present/future users feel, but he just wasn't willing to listen with an open mind.