Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included?

[lux7]

The point of the deep dive is to getting to know someone "well".

Chase's point of view is not to talk about sex, and exes I guess.
But.. Relationships, partners count, sexual "habits" are an integral, extremely important part of who we are.

So can you really getting to know someone without talking about them?
Would you include them as conversation's topics?

 

[Franco]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

lucifer,

So can you really getting to know someone without talking about them?
Would you include them as conversation's topics?

The first thing to understand is that the "deep dive" is mostly for her, and not as much for you. Your goal is still to take the girl to bed, but her goal is to feel like she knows you well enough that she's willing to go to bed with you. So understanding that will keep you from feeling like you need to reveal a lot in return for her revealing something.

As far as sexual topics and relationships go, I think sexual topics are okay, but they generally aren't considered "deep-diving" topics, and anything that comes up as sexual should be light-hearted, flirty, and fun. Sexual topics are not used for deep-diving and rather used for ramping up sexual tension (and/or communicating that you are non-judgmental toward open sexuality). Relationships, on the other hand, are an entirely different story. I would actually avoid this at all costs. The main reason being, if everything about her previous relationships were positive, then why is she single and on a date with you? It's very likely that her previous relationships evoke one of the following emotions: boredom, hatred, or sadness. All three of those are emotions that you want to avoid like the plague when on a date with a girl as it's absolutely going to kill the mood.

Can previous relationships give you more information about the girl and what she might be like as a long-term partner? Absolutely. Is it something that you need to know on the first date before you've slept with the girl? Nope.

Now, occasionally previous relationships might come up in conversation, but again, your goal is to keep the mood positive and lift her up if she suddenly starts to talk about things that seem to bring her spirit down. Once you've given her an uplifting statement, it's best to move on to another topic. Once you've bedded a girl, you are more than welcome to dig through her history with men (and she might even share it with you without being prompted to do so). Although, if you do, be prepared for the fact that she'll likely start to probe YOUR relationship history if you ask about hers. So if you don't have anything positive that you want to say about your previous relationship history, then I would suggest avoiding asking about hers. =)

EDIT: I guess I should mention that I never probe a girl's sexual history anymore. With enough experience, you can get a pretty good idea of what a girl is like by taking her on a date and sleeping with her. The way she handles herself on the date and the way she handles herself after sex usually gives me the information I need to determine what flaws she has as a future partner (if any).

- Franco

 

[lux7]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

As far as sexual topics and relationships go, I think sexual topics are okay, but they generally aren't considered "deep-diving" topics, and anything that comes up as sexual should be light-hearted, flirty, and fun. Sexual topics are not used for deep-diving and rather used for ramping up sexual tension (and/or communicating that you are non-judgmental toward open sexuality).

Ja, that was the point, sex is an important part of life of getting to know someone, that's why I was wondering.

Especially when it comes up without you mentioning, I was wondering whether it was good to delve deeper on it. If you don't you might look like someone who shirks the sex subject and that might give a wrong idea of who you are.

Relationships, on the other hand, are an entirely different story. I would actually avoid this at all costs. The main reason being, if everything about her previous relationships were positive, then why is she single and on a date with you? It's very likely that her previous relationships evoke one of the following emotions: boredom, hatred, or sadness. All three of those are emotions that you want to avoid like the plague when on a date with a girl as it's absolutely going to kill the mood.

Now, occasionally previous relationships might come up in conversation, but again, your goal is to keep the mood positive and lift her up if she suddenly starts to talk about things that seem to bring her spirit down.

Hmmm I'm not 100% sure about this part.
It might set you on a mentality that you need to entertain the woman.

Sad or not so exciting topics are a part of life, but if you are able to listen through and then turn them around to something positive.. Now that makes you powerful

 

[mystery2014]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

I agree with Franco, I would not delve into partner counts and past sexual experience at least until AFTER I had slept with a girl.

I now agree with him even more that it may be better to avoid it all together:

I met the love of my life a couple of months ago and made her my girlfriend 2 weeks ago and after we had sex for the first time I asked her what's the most random place she has had sex before.

Her reply? "Dont make me think about having sex with my exes, I would much rather talk and think about what crazy places me and you are going to have sex together in the future..."

 

[someone]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

Franco hit it on the head. The less you talk about yourself, the better. If the girl says "I feel like we've talked so much about me, tell me something about yourself" then you know you're doing it right.

Also, what mystery said is true, it's better to avoid the topic of exes, especially when it comes to sex. If the girl asks specifically where is the craziest place you've had sex, you can turn that into a bonus question by asking if she really wants to hear about your past relationships. She'll see that as you being considerate of her feelings and also that you're so far over your exes that you don't even really care to talk about them.

 

[lux7]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

Just as a note as I guess it wasn't it clear: talking as few as possible about yourself was not the topic as it's basically a given being it the one of the main pillars of the deep dive.

The question was if topics such as "relationships", "partners" and "sexual habits/preferences" were better avoided as they do are a major part of what people are.
ie: you can talk about "dreams and aspirations and childhood memories" as much as you want, but sex and relationships remain the most important thing in the life of 98% of the women. So: can you get her to open up and get to know her without these topics?

 

[someone]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

Just as a note as I guess it wasn't it clear: talking as few as possible about yourself was not the topic as it's basically a given being it the one of the main pillars of the deep dive.

The question was if topics such as "relationships", "partners" and "sexual habits/preferences" were better avoided as they do are a major part of what people are.
ie: you can talk about "dreams and aspirations and childhood memories" as much as you want, but sex and relationships remain the most important thing in the life of 98% of the women. So: can you get her to open up and get to know her without these topics?

I took your question as asking whether you should talk about your own relationships, partners, and sexual mores. The answer to that is simply no, or very little in the early stages. If you pollute your deep dive with sexual tension, the girl is going to subconsciously (and eventually consciously) think, "hey, this guy is talking about sex too quickly!"

That said, I often get girls talking about sex and I do so in a way that makes it seem like it was their idea, but I don't consider that deep diving. "What do you look for in a man?" Then she'll give you some benign answers about personality traits, eyes, strong arms, nice hands, etc. Escalate when the time is right, usually she'll give you an opening like "I like guys who can hold me tight" or "I want to know that a man can pick me up" or something like that (if she follows that with a laugh, then she's inviting you to play along). That's your escalation window, HIT IT!

 

[lux7]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

[
I took your question as asking whether you should talk about your own relationships, partners, and sexual mores. The answer to that is simply no, or very little in the early stages. If you pollute your deep dive with sexual tension, the girl is going to subconsciously (and eventually consciously) think, "hey, this guy is talking about sex too quickly!"

I know bro, it was my mistake.

Can't change the title of the topic now so if anyone that has already replied wants to contribute I'll gladly read as it happened many times to me that those topics were broached.

 

[lux7]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

I pretty much only talk about these things with women. They enjoy the interaction a lot more than if you try to talk about "real" topics, which to them are just considered boring. They're sexual creatures and they think about this stuff as much as you do. Save the real talk for your male friends.

Exactly, my same experience. Especially for "simpler" girls, who don't really have big dreams but just to meet a guy.

That's why I was wondering as the "textbook deepdive" here on GS seems to marginalize these topics and suggests to avoid them.

I'd love to hear Chase's opinion on this.

However, I'd make sure you don't have any "M/W complex" left (or at least, can just hide it really well like I do) or that will come through in the conversation.

Ehehe .
Ja, I think a bit of M/W complex might actually be ingrained into the vast majority of people, at a genetic level and not just a cultural one but like you say, experience and "hiding the little left of it" will make for a perfectly judgement-free convo.

 

[Franco]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

Just to be clear, what some of us are advocating here is not to talk about past relationships while on a date with a girl.

You can talk about sex, judgment, society, etc. (as all of those can communicate your ability to be non-judgmental around others), but you don't have to do it without asking her about her previous relationships. You can simply run things the way Alek Rolstad does (by talking about how society judges people too harshly for engaging in sexual activity when it's such as a beautiful thing -- and then maybe share a sex story), but you can still avoid her relationship history altogether. I've seen it plenty of times, and I can say with relative confidence that having a girl discuss her past exes and partners (in detail) doesn't help you toward your goal of sleeping with her.

Occasionally a girl will bring up her previous relationships (which is where I gave advice on how to deal with it), but you still don't want to be engaging in specific stories about her exes or previous partners that involve her having to describe those previous relationships to you. If she's talking about her exes in detail at any point during the date, that's usually a bad sign to begin with. Almost every girl that has gone to bed with me after a date did not say a word about her ex (unless she was maybe describing one of the craziest places she's had sex before), and that's about it.

If you want to know more about the girl, it's so much easier to get honest and truthful information out of her AFTER you've slept with her. Anything you get before that is just her trying to fit the frame that you present to her, and even then, it's much "safer" for her to hide most of her sexuality (and honest opinions) until she's slept with you.

- Franco

 

[Chase]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included

Lucifer-

I'd love to hear Chase's opinion on this.

I used to always say "never talk about it in deep dive; only talk about it in sexual humor / innuendo / chase framing" because that was the only way I'd seen it work and only way I could make it work myself. But when I started talking to Alek and Drexel and a few other chaps and spent a little time with these guys I saw how they did it, and they have this very relaxed "let's talk about sex" kind of deal going on that is natural and sort of sets up this matter-of-fact sexual frame where, assuming the girl is interested, sex is kind of a given at that point; you're both mutually agreed on things they like sexually, both find each other sexually attractive, and then you go from there.

Another thing to keep in mind is it depends too on the girl you're going for and how she perceives you. If you're going for more conservative women and/or they're viewing you more as a potential boyfriend, you can have a pretty difficult time with direct sex talk / relationship talk unless the girl is bursting with barely-repressed sexuality. If you're going for more liberal / sexually experienced women, you can almost lose a lot of their interest and your credibility with them if you don't talk about sex (especially if all they see you as is a piece of sexual meat), conversely.

Imagine two different women:

- Woman A is staring at you like the Prince of Her Dreams there to sweep her off into a romantic adventure for the ages
- Woman B is looking at you impatiently and tapping her foot wondering when you are going to take her home and stick your cock in her

These two women have very different expectations from you, and are going to react very differently to different forms of sex talk.

Good rule of thumb: if she views you as a guy she can use for orgasms, talk sex. If she views you as a guy she'd like to have something that includes sex but also more than sex with, feel it out; might be okay, might not be. If she's really conservative and/or is looking at you with stars in her eyes like "Here is the Man of My Dreams, arrived at last!", probably don't talk so much about sex (though innuendo may / may not be okay - it's a continuum, not an on-off switch).

I don't like talking about past relationships in general though; I don't know if Drexel or Alek talk about them but those have never been anything I've found anything but bad things come 99% of the time of when I try weaving them into conversation. Talked about that here, actually:

Past Relationships: Where to Go (and Where Not to) on a Date

Chase

 

[lux7]

Re: Deep dive: are "relationships", "partners" and "sexual mores" to be included


Thank you Franco!


Thank you Chase!