Socializing Deep Diving Issues??

[AdamC]

Hey There,

So I have a couple issues consistently happening with Deep Diving, and it is difficult to self diagnose
It would be interesting to see where or how I may be using it ineffectively to advance seduction...

The first consistent occurrence is a resistance to escalation either while on the meet-up as physical escalation, or escalation in Daygame pickup where it has been suggested I use it as a tool to create an emotional connection, as a hook, to setup the reason for a one-on-one...

I've quite literally had the same reaction, and statement from females in both scenarios in which they begin divulging detailed personal information, and I actively listen and when I feel there's an opening, or an emotional connection I move in to escalate and she stops me and says "wait, no, I've told you alot about myself and I don't want to ruin it, let's not move fast like this..." So I back-off as she begins talking again, but then try again, and she locks up, finally to the point where I don't have any escalation windows that I'm pretty much done. And we end the date and I drop her because I can't waste my time with Friendzone, and don't want to get sucked into the boyfirend zone again - cuz that's why I'm on this site Trying to learn on how to be a LOVER and not a boyfriend zone guy anymore...

With the Daygame pickup it's "wow, I told you all this personal stuff about myself, and we're total strangers..." I'm like: "Yeah, it's cool huh, we should continue this sometime this week or next when we can have a full conversation..." Her: "Actually, no thanks... I can't believe I told all this personal stuff to a total stranger. But nice meeting you!"
Or the later part happens via text when I try to set up the meet up...
And I'm thinking "what the Fuck?" "Total Strangers." ""Of course we're total strangers. And how else do you get to know a total stranger than go meet-up with them and have a further conversation - rather than a 5-7, or sometimes 10-12 minute conversation in the street, park, wherever the Daygame pickup occurs...

The Second consistent reaction I guess would be "Auto Rejection??" Basically where I attempt to deep dive and the chick shuts down and looks at me like I'm an Alien, and it devolves from there...

A great example of this would be last week when I worked alongside this Super Fine Female Cop, 5'9 stacked, suffer girls body, sexy latina, erotic gap in her front two teeth...28 from what I learned... We had off duty officers help our Feature Film Production with some traffic control, and pedestrian safety while we prepped at a house.

It felt as if I hit it off with this Gal straight from the beginning, I guess because of my Fundamentals. Then I noticed had scaring on the bottom of her lip from piercings and I threw out the "so I take it you were a bad girl before becoming a good girl Cop?" And she confided in how she was a Raver girl with piercings when she was 16 but it only lasted for like 6 months... And I joked about how 6 months isn't very long for her to be a bad girl. But then she said she became a middle school teacher, and found being a cop was more exciting...

Then I tried to deep dive, based on a similar deep dive I had done a while ago with an Action Show Actress which seemed to work with her, and got her kinda open and hott, so I figured maybe it would work with the Cop... I asked about how she's able to still be feminine in such a masculine role, being a cop, but without having to try and be or act as a Male, as so many Hollywood female characters do - ya know where a chick becomes the dude, thinking like that is Feminism, when actually being secure in your femininity and strong with that is actually Feminism...
Again the Action Actress loved this - HOWEVER - this Gal Cop seemed to shut down with it. Or I fried a wire.. Or something... I thought it was a good deep dive.

I've had deep dives like this Fry other females too, and perhaps the Action Actress was the exception.

But to flush out the story, the experience with the Hott Female Cop got weirded when the other cops we hired showed up. The Older Male went to his posting fine, but the younger male cop ignored my direction of posting at an opposite intersection and instead partnered up with the Hott Female and stuck on her like Flies on Shit... It's funny in this scenario - but I'm actually in charge of the Cops in this capacity. Our Production pays them very-well off-duty, and our department manages that, and so it's my responsibilty to tell them where and how to post up... If it were a Shoot Day I'd have more grounds to justify breaking he and this Hott Cop up, but since it was such a low-key prep - I'd look very try-hard and obvious if I broke them up - if you know what I mean.

My last ditch effort was to pull her aside when she, and the young male were socializing with another cop who dropped by to say hello, and ask her for a piece of gum, since I saw gum in her mouth previously as a test for compliance and investment. She gave me a piece of gum. But later after she and the young male came back from lunch they rolled up on me in the cop car and he said: "Hey, we, I mean she got you this as he passed me a fresh pack of gum they bought at the store or whatever. And she shot me this devious look, and well that was the last I got of her that day...

I couldn't separate them, and when I asked if they want to take a tour of the set we were prepping, they declined. That's when I walked away for fear of coming off needy, or try hard. But I couldn't figure out if they were together. Or if he was her "White Knight," or I fear, if she said I creeped her out (because of the deep dive attempt) and therefore he became her "protector," or whatever...

I don't know if this was any kind of social proof or anything, but I ended up becoming pretty good buddies with the Older Cop, who I took around set, and he hung out with the prep crew. He had all kinds of cool cop stories. And I had him interact there after with the Hott Cop and her male friend - because I didn't want to come off needy or creepy at all...

So there you go.
And interested in constructive thoughts on how to resolve this and get some better consistent results...

 

[StrayDog]

Okay, so a number of things I am noticing.

Timing

The first is your timing on deep dives/ Escalations. It seems like 1: you are using deep dive too soon in the interactions in general. And 2: You are escalating at the wrong time. For example here

they begin divulging detailed personal information, and I actively listen and when I feel there's an opening, or an emotional connection I move in to escalate and she stops me and says "wait, no, I've told you alot about myself and I don't want to ruin it, let's not move fast like this..."

It sounds like you are escalating immediately after she has divulged a lot of personal info to you. I am not sure what made you think that this was the time to escalate, but it clearly wasn't. It was too soon. Judging by her reaction, she probably doesn't feel like she actually has a good sense of who you are, feels super vulnerable that she has shared so much, and now you are making uncalibrated moves on her. Of course she is going to put the breaks.

With the Daygame pickup it's "wow, I told you all this personal stuff about myself, and we're total strangers..." I'm like: "Yeah, it's cool huh, we should continue this sometime this week or next when we can have a full conversation..." Her: "Actually, no thanks... I can't believe I told all this personal stuff to a total stranger. But nice meeting you!"

Dude, of course she feels this way. You literally just met, and somehow got her to spill the beans about herself. But it's also a one-sided conversation, she barely gets a sense of who you are, and the interaction in know way illustrates to her that a fun give and take sort of dynamic would emerge if you met again. She is in this totally vulnerable position of having over shared with someone she doesn't know at all and is like "wait what just happened, who are you? No I don't want to meet.

So to fix this, first I would suggest you run a diagnostic on what you are interpreting as "escalation windows," because it doesn't seem like you are actually reading these moments correctly and are making moves at un calibrated moments.

The next thing I would suggest is that you are more intentional with WHEN you deep dive.

Deep diving is not the tool you want to use for when you are doing cold approach. It is a tool that is used deeper into the seduction arc. There are other more playful and less deep ways to build a sense of connection during day game. When you are cold approaching the mission is to either get enough momentum to where a number/date close makes sense, or get an instant date going if the logistics permit. The mission is not to go super deep super quick, for precisely the reason you have observed. You will give her a whiplash effect, where she snaps out of it.

So when is it best to use deep diving? Well, obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but generally I would aim to use deep diving during the second phase of a date/seduction. So, after the meet and greet, and the basic rapport building, once there is a good deal of conversational momentum. At this point it will feel natural to start getting deeper into personal topics.

So, not when you are cold approaching. When you are on the date. Second stage, after meet and greet/rapport building.

Now, in terms of escalating you don't want to just jump in after deep diving. It's important that you build the interaction back up, put more energy and tension back into the interaction. So after you deep dive, build momentum again, amp up the flirting, find a high note, and that is when you pull.

Keep in mind that seduction is rarely exactly linear, so you are probably going to be fractionating all of these things through out, it's just that one will take dominance of the interaction at a given stage over the others.

How you deep dive

Okay, so this is the other big thing. I am not sure that a lot of what you described here is exactly deep diving. Or there are deep diving elements to it, but it is not deep diving in a way that is conducive to bringing out deeper parts of herself and feeling like she can trust you with them.

I asked about how she's able to still be feminine in such a masculine role, being a cop, but without having to try and be or act as a Male, as so many Hollywood female characters do - ya know where a chick becomes the dude, thinking like that is Feminism, when actually being secure in your femininity and strong with that is actually Feminism...

Like all of this basically you imposing a conversational frame onto what she has shared with you. You are trying to make the conversation about her femininity and your idea of what that means.

she said she became a middle school teacher, and found being a cop was more exciting...

So here is gives you this personal information about her self, and you hit her with a bunch of personal opinions about femininity and gender stereotypes and shit. Like, all of that might not have anything to do with her experience at all. She probably got "fried" (as you put it) because she is thinking "what the fuck is this guy on about?"

Total missed opportunity to get her to open up. Share more about who she really is. Compel her to reveal pieces of herself.

Like i would have been curious what she found so exciting about being a cop, and what was her decision to stop being a teacher, and what her journey was like to be a cop, and how she feels now that she's accomplished that, and gone deeper into what excites her and ask if she get's that excitement in other ways in her life... And so on.

That's what deep diving is about.

Keep in mind that just because someone is sharing a story about themselves, that does not mean that they are truly revealing themselves. That's what deep diving is. It's compelling her to reveal herself. Then reflecting back at her that you are listening to what she is really sharing. Giving her the opportunity to feel truly seen.

This is probably true with the girls who have been putting the breaks when you escalate. You got them to share info about themselves, but you didn't reflect back at them that they were being seen. That can be the difference between "Who the fuck did I just share all this personal info with" and "wow who is this person that seems to really get me?" They also haven't been given the opportunity to see a piece of themselves reflected in who you are.

There a tons of ways to do this, I a don't have the time at the moment to get too in depth on deep dive technique at the moment. Maybe I will make a post on it sometime.


And one last note. Deep diving is not what is going to put you in the boyfriend zone. If you are having this issue it is probably because of other factors, not because you got her to open up to you.

 

[Will_V]

Hey There,

So I have a couple issues consistently happening with Deep Diving, and it is difficult to self diagnose
It would be interesting to see where or how I may be using it ineffectively to advance seduction...

The first consistent occurrence is a resistance to escalation either while on the meet-up as physical escalation, or escalation in Daygame pickup where it has been suggested I use it as a tool to create an emotional connection, as a hook, to setup the reason for a one-on-one...

I've quite literally had the same reaction, and statement from females in both scenarios in which they begin divulging detailed personal information, and I actively listen and when I feel there's an opening, or an emotional connection I move in to escalate and she stops me and says "wait, no, I've told you alot about myself and I don't want to ruin it, let's not move fast like this..." So I back-off as she begins talking again, but then try again, and she locks up, finally to the point where I don't have any escalation windows that I'm pretty much done. And we end the date and I drop her because I can't waste my time with Friendzone, and don't want to get sucked into the boyfirend zone again - cuz that's why I'm on this site Trying to learn on how to be a LOVER and not a boyfriend zone guy anymore...

With the Daygame pickup it's "wow, I told you all this personal stuff about myself, and we're total strangers..." I'm like: "Yeah, it's cool huh, we should continue this sometime this week or next when we can have a full conversation..." Her: "Actually, no thanks... I can't believe I told all this personal stuff to a total stranger. But nice meeting you!"
Or the later part happens via text when I try to set up the meet up...
And I'm thinking "what the Fuck?" "Total Strangers." ""Of course we're total strangers. And how else do you get to know a total stranger than go meet-up with them and have a further conversation - rather than a 5-7, or sometimes 10-12 minute conversation in the street, park, wherever the Daygame pickup occurs...

The Second consistent reaction I guess would be "Auto Rejection??" Basically where I attempt to deep dive and the chick shuts down and looks at me like I'm an Alien, and it devolves from there...

A great example of this would be last week when I worked alongside this Super Fine Female Cop, 5'9 stacked, suffer girls body, sexy latina, erotic gap in her front two teeth...28 from what I learned... We had off duty officers help our Feature Film Production with some traffic control, and pedestrian safety while we prepped at a house.

It felt as if I hit it off with this Gal straight from the beginning, I guess because of my Fundamentals. Then I noticed had scaring on the bottom of her lip from piercings and I threw out the "so I take it you were a bad girl before becoming a good girl Cop?" And she confided in how she was a Raver girl with piercings when she was 16 but it only lasted for like 6 months... And I joked about how 6 months isn't very long for her to be a bad girl. But then she said she became a middle school teacher, and found being a cop was more exciting...

Then I tried to deep dive, based on a similar deep dive I had done a while ago with an Action Show Actress which seemed to work with her, and got her kinda open and hott, so I figured maybe it would work with the Cop... I asked about how she's able to still be feminine in such a masculine role, being a cop, but without having to try and be or act as a Male, as so many Hollywood female characters do - ya know where a chick becomes the dude, thinking like that is Feminism, when actually being secure in your femininity and strong with that is actually Feminism...
Again the Action Actress loved this - HOWEVER - this Gal Cop seemed to shut down with it. Or I fried a wire.. Or something... I thought it was a good deep dive.

I've had deep dives like this Fry other females too, and perhaps the Action Actress was the exception.

But to flush out the story, the experience with the Hott Female Cop got weirded when the other cops we hired showed up. The Older Male went to his posting fine, but the younger male cop ignored my direction of posting at an opposite intersection and instead partnered up with the Hott Female and stuck on her like Flies on Shit... It's funny in this scenario - but I'm actually in charge of the Cops in this capacity. Our Production pays them very-well off-duty, and our department manages that, and so it's my responsibilty to tell them where and how to post up... If it were a Shoot Day I'd have more grounds to justify breaking he and this Hott Cop up, but since it was such a low-key prep - I'd look very try-hard and obvious if I broke them up - if you know what I mean.

My last ditch effort was to pull her aside when she, and the young male were socializing with another cop who dropped by to say hello, and ask her for a piece of gum, since I saw gum in her mouth previously as a test for compliance and investment. She gave me a piece of gum. But later after she and the young male came back from lunch they rolled up on me in the cop car and he said: "Hey, we, I mean she got you this as he passed me a fresh pack of gum they bought at the store or whatever. And she shot me this devious look, and well that was the last I got of her that day...

I couldn't separate them, and when I asked if they want to take a tour of the set we were prepping, they declined. That's when I walked away for fear of coming off needy, or try hard. But I couldn't figure out if they were together. Or if he was her "White Knight," or I fear, if she said I creeped her out (because of the deep dive attempt) and therefore he became her "protector," or whatever...

I don't know if this was any kind of social proof or anything, but I ended up becoming pretty good buddies with the Older Cop, who I took around set, and he hung out with the prep crew. He had all kinds of cool cop stories. And I had him interact there after with the Hott Cop and her male friend - because I didn't want to come off needy or creepy at all...

So there you go.
And interested in constructive thoughts on how to resolve this and get some better consistent results...

To add to what @StrayDog already pointed out, when she suddenly becomes uncomfortable about divulging personal information, the issue at play is lack of connection. She feels like she knows a lot less about you than what you know about her, and something in the interaction has highlighted that to her.

One of the things that can highlight lack of connection is feeling that the other person has an agenda that's not clear to you, and especially if the person seems to be hiding that agenda in some way. Perhaps your intent is not coming across in the right balance, or you are not reflecting back to her a calm, warm validation of her presentation of herself. During deep diving, nonverbals are very very important, and being completely relaxed and unreactive is key. The way I think of it, you must be like a tree, which stands there with a solid, reassuring, and tranquil presence, stirring every now and then in concert with her emotions.

 

[AdamC]

Appreciate the incite. I might have more questions comin' up...

 

[AdamC]

Hey Guys, so it turns out that the Hott Officer is a lipstick lesbian!!
I am working with the other cool Officer today who filled me in.
However I have had past opportunities with lesbians, and I don't see why asking her to coffee wouldn't work.

I'm just not sure how it is different than straight girls who you met outside work??