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Date Plans  Did I balls up by suggesting a second date at the end of our first date?

slashrfnr

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
58
I should start with a bit about me for context – I’m 31, I’ve used a lot of the teachings from this site to great effect, both in my romantic life but also in my social life, but I’d never profess to the aim of being able to seduce any girl I wanted. So I’m far from a polished machine, but I know the basics, and I’ve been very fortunate in life that I tend to do well on dates, and if I realise I actually like her, I’ll end up continuing to date her/hook up with her/make her my girlfriend.

Met a girl on a dating app –I’d say she was very hot anyway, but subjectively, she was absolutely my type. We go out for drinks, and I’m keeping the conversation fun with push/pull and teasing, but focussed on her, and deep diving and qualifying at times, and she is laughing at everything I’m saying. At this point I’m thinking that she has a lot interests/qualities that I look for in a girl, we share a lot of interests and seem to have clicked. I ended up kissing her after the second drink because it felt right. We get some food, and continue talking, and she starts sharing more personal stuff, including going to therapy, and then talking about her nerdiness and saying things like ‘i never tell anyone this on a first date’.

She asks about deal-breakers and says one of hers is about wanting kids, and I say that;s fine because I’m pretty sure I would like them at some point. She then says that she knows she shouldn’t ask these questions on a first date etc, and I just said she didn’t need to apologise, that i was having fun and that I would like to go out again, if she was up for it. I was a bit under the influence and immediately regretted saying it, but she just joked back saying ‘what a question to ask a girl on a first date, but yeah I would’

At this point, given she lives on the other side of London and the fact that she had injured her ankle earlier, I take her to the train station, we kiss goodbye, but then as I’m saying goodbye, she says it was nice to meet me. I remember thinking that was a bit of an odd thing to say, but just chalk it up to not thinking on her feet. I follow Chase’s texting guide and send her a message the next day saying I had fun, and hoped she got home OK, and get left on read. 2 days later, i follow up with the standard scheduler, and she replies within minutes apologising for not replying as she was feeling sorry for ankle, and then saying she had ‘a great time, but didn’t think there was the spark of connection, and wish she felt differently because I was an absolute hoot’

I’m now a bit confused/pranged out because it felt like we got on super well (this is the second time this has happened this year), and I’ve always thought that one of my strengths in dating is my ability to build a connection with someone. I admit I didn’t deep dive as much as usual, and wonder if I got carried away because we seemed to have good chemistry, shared interests and seemed like my type, but it definitely felt like we enjoyed ourselves enough for a second date. Could me asking her out on a second date be a major fuck up? Or could the ‘no connection’ just be a nice way of saying she doesn’t find me attractive? Or is this one of those things where I’m never going to know what’s going on in her head?
 

Fluxcapacitor

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
785
@slashrfnr dude! You're never going to know, it's a bit of a mistake saying you want to see them again while on a date with them and it's best to keep it ambiguous but this isn't necessarily going to ruin everything completely.

You're not always going to get second dates, there's articles saying you can have a great date and never get a follow up and you can have dates where the girl seems anything but into it and get a second date.

A lot of this is backward rationalisation, if she wanted you to take her to bed and you didn't she's thinking maybe you don't get on that much. If you met her on an app and she's used to first date sex it can go against you. She may never have sex on the first date, this is just a possibility. She may not find you attractive and thought your profile was better.

There's too many possibilities and you'll never know the exact reason. You can think about it all you want but you'll never know. Learn from mistakes made.

Instead of saying she didn't have to apologise, which isn't to bad in itself if you don't follow up saying you'd like to see her again, you could have teased her. "Wow wanting children on the first date, am I going to have to get a restraining order?" "Talking about children on our first date, slow down, we haven't decided on a wedding cake yet" all this said with a smirk and playful attitude.

When taking her to the tube you could have asked her to text you when she got home, this is compliance and investment from her
 

slashrfnr

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
58
@Fluxcapacitor thanks for the response man! Totally get all your points, and normally I'm better at running tighter game, but think I was quite taken by her, and lost ability to reason.

Regarding first date sex, completely agree with everything you said. I didn't realise how awful the logistics were as she didn't say where she lived before we met, and I have my distance for matches pretty low (for context, she lives near Heathrow airport which is basically 50 mins by public transport from central London, and would have been nearly an hour and a half for mine). I kind of figured that if I outright invited her to mine, I would get a no, so I did a half invite/feeler and just said 'i'm having a good time and would like to continue talking, so would totally invite you back for a nightcap if you didn't live so far away and weren't on a bruised ankle'. I can't remember exactly what she said, she seemed to be thinking but then mentioned work there next day, and logistically, I knew there was no way she was going to be able to come to mine, make it home in the morning, and then make it back to work for 10am, so I didn't try and push it. So it could be that she wanted me to take her to bed, but I don't think I ran the sort of date where there was heavy flirting/sex talk that she was expecting to go home with me.

And yeah I did actually ask her to text me to say she got home safe, but she didn't - at the time, I just put that down to her forgetting, as I often do, but then when couple that with the awkward ending and the no response the next day, it just feels like something went completely off at the end given how good a time we had been having at the beginning.

Equally, she is hot and probably has many options, and works really unsociable hours in the theatre, so probably doesn't want to waste time on someone she isn't feeling 'fuck yes' about.

Anyway, thanks for the reality check/shaking me out of my funk. Onwards and upwards!
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
2,091
My tack is generally talk about each of our plans in the coming week. ie; "I'm travelling for work for 3 days then catching the football game on Sunday night on TV"
She says "i love watching football!"
I then invite her to join me for the game on my couch. "Bring a bottle of Wine, and i'll fix (insert speciality here)

The conversation develops organically rather than trying to "check our calendars"
 

POB

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
1,373
Next day:
"Hey X, hope your ankle is better!
You know, first dates sometimes can be odd...but I think we did pretty good (fire emoji)!
Maybe we can follow up and see if the connection is there.
Lemme know your thoughts on that"


No need to go beyond it (after all, it's just a small compliance test with low-investment).
If she doesn't answer, wait 1-2 days and send an eye emoji
(no need to re-open or aything).

If she gets the bait, you set up logistics and go for the isolation and lay.

If not, just put her on your "maybe" list and go sarge other chicks.
 

Beck Bass

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
638
A lot of this is backward rationalisation, if she wanted you to take her to bed and you didn't she's thinking maybe you don't get on that much.
Yeah I think she was expecting him to at least try to pull her since apparently their connection was so good.
I don't think the problem was attraction as he kissed her, but @slashrfnr must know this.
I would say she took your invitation for a next date as stalling to pull her (and probably got a bit disappointed), and after that she thought that you two didn't "quite had that spark" since you seemed to have so much in common, yet nothing more happened.

I don't see you necessarily trying to close, even if the logictics are bad, you should at least ask the girl what you can do about it (you don't necessarily need to be overt, but ask her about her logistics as naturally as you can an try to convey you wanna isolate her). All I can suggest is trying to close harder @slashrfnr, if you feel it's a possibility, you should go for it, as far as you can, because "the next date" many times doesn't even happen. Some girls in Tinder are only looking for casual sex, and I would say a good part expects it at least sometimes, so maybe she just wanted to go out with some other guy (since she's hot, she has a lot of options online, even if they can be not so great in real life).
 

slashrfnr

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
58
Next day:
"Hey X, hope your ankle is better!
You know, first dates sometimes can be odd...but I think we did pretty good (fire emoji)!
Maybe we can follow up and see if the connection is there.
Lemme know your thoughts on that"


No need to go beyond it (after all, it's just a small compliance test with low-investment).
If she doesn't answer, wait 1-2 days and send an eye emoji
(no need to re-open or aything).

If she gets the bait, you set up logistics and go for the isolation and lay.

If not, just put her on your "maybe" list and go sarge other chicks.
@POB Are you suggesting this as what I should have done, or what I should still try? I really like it, but I think the boat has sailed on the latter, as she already rejected me on Friday, and I just replied with some magnanimous bullshit saying I was surprised as I thought we got on well, but wishing her the best of luck for the future.

@Beck Bass thanks for advice bud! I would say this was a girl on Hinge, which is less hook uppy then Tinder, and she explicitly put she was looking for a life partner, but I get it - I think I sometimes doubt my overall abilities with women, and don't think I've done enough for her to want to fuck on the first date. Definitely something I need to get over
 

Beck Bass

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
638
this was a girl on Hinge
Ooh I didn't catch that

I think I sometimes doubt my overall abilities with women, and don't think I've done enough for her to want to fuck on the first date. Definitely something I need to get over
Sometimes all you gotta do is ask... Good luck mate!
 

happynanako

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
45
You could always suggest for 2nd date on the date itself it is going well. TBH, not sure what's the fear. It's from a dating app, what are they expecting? Pure friendship? Just go for it, if it doesn't go well, just continue swiping. Don't make a big deal out of her.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,248
I should start with a bit about me for context – I’m 31, I’ve used a lot of the teachings from this site to great effect, both in my romantic life but also in my social life, but I’d never profess to the aim of being able to seduce any girl I wanted. So I’m far from a polished machine, but I know the basics, and I’ve been very fortunate in life that I tend to do well on dates, and if I realise I actually like her, I’ll end up continuing to date her/hook up with her/make her my girlfriend.

Met a girl on a dating app –I’d say she was very hot anyway, but subjectively, she was absolutely my type. We go out for drinks, and I’m keeping the conversation fun with push/pull and teasing, but focussed on her, and deep diving and qualifying at times, and she is laughing at everything I’m saying. At this point I’m thinking that she has a lot interests/qualities that I look for in a girl, we share a lot of interests and seem to have clicked. I ended up kissing her after the second drink because it felt right. We get some food, and continue talking, and she starts sharing more personal stuff, including going to therapy, and then talking about her nerdiness and saying things like ‘i never tell anyone this on a first date’.

She asks about deal-breakers and says one of hers is about wanting kids, and I say that;s fine because I’m pretty sure I would like them at some point. She then says that she knows she shouldn’t ask these questions on a first date etc, and I just said she didn’t need to apologise, that i was having fun and that I would like to go out again, if she was up for it. I was a bit under the influence and immediately regretted saying it, but she just joked back saying ‘what a question to ask a girl on a first date, but yeah I would’

At this point, given she lives on the other side of London and the fact that she had injured her ankle earlier, I take her to the train station, we kiss goodbye, but then as I’m saying goodbye, she says it was nice to meet me. I remember thinking that was a bit of an odd thing to say, but just chalk it up to not thinking on her feet. I follow Chase’s texting guide and send her a message the next day saying I had fun, and hoped she got home OK, and get left on read. 2 days later, i follow up with the standard scheduler, and she replies within minutes apologising for not replying as she was feeling sorry for ankle, and then saying she had ‘a great time, but didn’t think there was the spark of connection, and wish she felt differently because I was an absolute hoot’

I’m now a bit confused/pranged out because it felt like we got on super well (this is the second time this has happened this year), and I’ve always thought that one of my strengths in dating is my ability to build a connection with someone. I admit I didn’t deep dive as much as usual, and wonder if I got carried away because we seemed to have good chemistry, shared interests and seemed like my type, but it definitely felt like we enjoyed ourselves enough for a second date. Could me asking her out on a second date be a major fuck up? Or could the ‘no connection’ just be a nice way of saying she doesn’t find me attractive? Or is this one of those things where I’m never going to know what’s going on in her head?
next time after the date, ask the girl to text you when she gets home to make sure she got home ok... that way you get compliance and keep momentum, talking about the next date is not big deal, i don't do this, but there are some guys that set up next date right on that date, with no issues...

I think there is a misunderstanding i don't think she wants kids... and you said you wanted kids...
 

slashrfnr

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
58
next time after the date, ask the girl to text you when she gets home to make sure she got home ok... that way you get compliance and keep momentum, talking about the next date is not big deal, i don't do this, but there are some guys that set up next date right on that date, with no issues...

I think there is a misunderstanding i don't think she wants kids... and you said you wanted kids...
Thanks Skills. I did ask at the end of the date for her to text me when she got home - and she didn't. It seems a bit weird for her not to comply with that after she had seemed to comply with everything before hand, but it did feel like a weird vibe at the end of the date (although I could be imaging that)

On the kids point, she definitely did want kids. It said it explicitly on her profile, and when we were talking about it, I asked her how soon (if she was like in the next year, I was outta there) and she said 3-5 years. So the kids discussion definitely wasn't what killed it.
 

slashrfnr

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
58
To be honest, one thing I have noticed (and have been guilty of myself sometimes) is that people these days expect an instant connection/click on the first date, and if it isn't there, they stop things quickly. I'm personally a bit more generous in that unless there is a fundamental incompatibility, and I actually enjoyed that persons company, I will go for a second date. But different strokes for different folks I guess
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,248
To be honest, one thing I have noticed (and have been guilty of myself sometimes) is that people these days expect an instant connection/click on the first date, and if it isn't there, they stop things quickly. I'm personally a bit more generous in that unless there is a fundamental incompatibility, and I actually enjoyed that persons company, I will go for a second date. But different strokes for different folks I guess
Yeah i explain this, i bang a lot of girls in second encounters,:


 

POB

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
1,373
@POB Are you suggesting this as what I should have done, or what I should still try? I really like it, but I think the boat has sailed on the latter,
No, that was post first date.
Now it's too late.
If she don't text when she gets home, you just tweak it a bit:

"Hey X, hope you got home safe yesterday
You know, first dates sometimes can be odd...but I think we did pretty good (fire emoji)!
Maybe we can follow up and see if the connection is there.
Lemme know your thoughts on that"


I personally like to keep it simple and straight to the point post first date.
By that time she knows whats up, no need to try and be cocky-funny or teasing or anything like that.

as she already rejected me on Friday, and I just replied with some magnanimous bullshit saying I was surprised as I thought we got on well, but wishing her the best of luck for the future.
Scratch it as a learning experience and move on.
In time you'll learn to be non-reactive to this kind of thing.
 

Beck Bass

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
638
next time after the date, ask the girl to text you when she gets home to make sure she got home ok...
This. A really nice touch, you show you care about her, that she's more than just a "sex toy" to you or whatever stupid things girls think sometimes lol, also gives you an easy way to keep the convo going and to ask her out for a second date.

people these days expect an instant connection/click on the first date
Mostly girls I would say, but people have unrealistic expectations of dating in general I suppose. Girls also say a bunch of stuff they don't really mean, so you can't take every word at face value (as I said, she likely was already autorejecting or just had better options by the point she wrote that to you). It is important though you do make a nice impression on the first date, try to stand out from the other guys (in a positive way of course lol).

You could always suggest for 2nd date on the date itself it is going well. TBH, not sure what's the fear. It's from a dating app, what are they expecting? Pure friendship?
Yeah but she doesn't really owe you a second date.
Also it can come across as unattractive if you do it the wrong way or in the wrong moment, like you are chasing her and don't have other options.
Most of my lays are from second dates, but in general I just kept contact and eventually we would come out on the right day and just fuck. When you're trying to suggest a second date right away, you're killing a lot of the mystery. She won't be wondering when you wanna see her again, or even if you want to see her again, you already told her you gonna see each other (at least you want it), so it's kinda like she's got you already. Plus she's gonna think you expect to see her again soon (and probably expect sex), so that's just bad in general, specially if she's busy in general.

I would suggest you only hint at a second date when you're with her (actually this can really work in your favor, if you can get her to kinda admit she wants to see you again on the date), something like "well too bad we can't keep this going now, but we should probably see each other soon...". This is borderline asking her out again, but notice that it kinda leaves that little doubt if it's really gonna happen, and when it's gonna happen. If she responds positevely to that, it's likely you get another date. Also only go for this if you really can't close for whatever reason, you should always be trying to go as far as she allows you to go. Stalling is death in seduction.
 

DoWhatWorks

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
620
Want to give my perspective that’s a little different to others.

1. As a fellow Londoner I check logistics before even meeting up with girls. If she lives 40+ minutes by tube I move on. Realistically hard to build anything & too many options here to force

2. I think you had mental hang ups about pulling a girl first time as you said. In your “invite” you mentioned the reasons why she *shouldn’t* go home with you.

'i'm having a good time and would like to continue talking, so would totally invite you back for a nightcap if you didn't live so far away and weren't on a bruised ankle'.

Let her reject you, don’t reject yourself


3. I have scheduled the 2nd date while on the 1st date countless times. If a girl is into you, it’s never a problem. You just have to frame it right

Validate (“I enjoyed this because of Xyz specific compliment” then wait for her to say the same) > Ping (“We should do this again” wait for positive response) > Close (What’s your upcoming schedule like)

In terms of text follow up just look at Skills guide
 
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