Direct openers for good looking guys and indirect for uglier guys?


Space Monkey
space monkey
Oct 24, 2017
Hi guys. I'm your standard ugly guy who is in good shape, has a good career, is intelligent, good social skills etc. I'm thinking about my few experiences using direct openers and it seems to me that you screen out the women who value those things and screen in the women who are into looks and good opener delivery technique. My point is that if she does not like the way that you look and/or the delivery of your direct opener, she'll just walk away and your approach is done. No chance for you to demonstrate any of these other things and - even if she really values intelligence, sense of humour etc. - she just has to walk away if you botch your direct opener or are an ugly guy who is delivering it. So, a corollary of this is that you won't get girls who could be into your intelligence, your money, your sense of humour etc. by using the direct opener. By using the direct opener and seeing which ladies hook, you're explicitly finding the ones who like only your approach technique and your look.

With the indirect opener, there is no worrying about what you'll talk to her about after the opener, because the opener itself provides the impetus for the conversation. Moreover, you can use those status things if you want to, and if your fundamentals are lacking. Am I right and should some guys consider doing primarily indirect approaches in their day game sessions, and using direct as a backup (e.g. a street stop where you run up to a woman who is walking just has to be a direct open because no other type of open would seem sensible)?


Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Dec 1, 2017
Hmmmm, lets see. You pose some good points and you are on the right track... but I would say it’s less about looks and more about value and being able to frame the interaction in a way that makes you seem slightly (slightly because you want to remain attainable) higher value than the woman you approach.

That being said, you can achieve this through either direct or indirect approach. The reason direct approach fails so often especially for beginners, is because they have trouble framing themselves as high-value even if they are high value. Here are the two extremes of direct approach that show when and why it is effective. These examples were given by Hector in his YouTube video, I don’t remember the video or the context tho. He said two scenarios, the first you give this small scrawny guy who walks over and stutters “uhh hey I um I-i think ur really pretty,” obviously he’s low value since she knows nothing about this guy other than what he’s portraying to her: he lacks confidence, couldn’t protect her, doesn’t have anything better to do than give her attention and compliments, not use to women bc he’s nervous etc. And she’s just gonna think “ughh thanks for the validation” The next scenario, a big celebrity does the same approach, says “hey I think your really pretty” do you think the bitch is just gonna think “ugh thanks for the validation? HELL NO! She’s gonna fall backwards and do the splits on the spot.

Therefore, for a direct approach you need to present yourself as if your high value even if you aren’t, by replicating the mindset, mannerisms and behaviors of a high value man. What ruins a cold approach for many beginners is that the frame they set from the start of the interaction is poor, there’s no clear reason for why they are even at the location, they seem like they aren’t busy doing anything, their telling her she’s the prize and that they want her to like them. They basically instantly give her all the power and make it known that she decides where the interaction will go. For an approach like that (a poor one) yes the girl would have to be attracted to you before hand, but girls aren’t men so attraction is less about physical appearance and more about posture, fashion, perceived status (if she saw you being social or talking to other girls) and stuff like that. Mostly thing you can control. Not saying looks don’t add to your value. They do. But they aren’t the most important thing. Fun fact ( I used to be “ugly” both inside of school and out, but once I started being considered “hot” in school I started being considered hot out in the rest of the world,and I sure as hell didn’t get plastic surgery and I don’t look that damn different whatsoever. Just different hair, posture, and mannerisms, mindset too.

To execute a solid direct opener you must achieve the following criteria:
1. Fix you goddamn fundamentals as best as you can so you appear as a high value male would

2. Handle you inner game my friend. Just from reading the first line of this post I can tell it’s not where it should be to get success instead of thinking “just ur standard ugly guy this girl isn’t gonna like me boo-hoo” think firstly of all those good qualities you mentioned about yourself, and also “I’m the fucking prize, it’s my birthright as a male to have women chase me, I am the prize.”

3. Have a life: if ur at the mall with no shopping bags and you by yourself and you go up to a girl and tell her she’s pretty... that’s creepy. Why tf are you there? It needs to seem spontaneous and not like she’s being games by a guy who went to the mall to meet women lol. This is part of the reason why a popular technique in the seduction community is a false time constraint, “hey I have to get back to my friends over there (turns and points) *compliment. This way it seems like the guy 1. Has a purpose and 2. Social proof (he’s probably trustworthy if he has that many friends)

4. Your the buyer, not the seller. This is why we screen and qualify, we’re checking if we would like to spend more time with them, not offer them our time before they invest whatsoever. Again, your the prize. A good push pull or straight up meg can achieve this.

5. This ties in with 1 and 2 but your execution should represent that of a high value high status man. Do you think Ryan gosling would stutter and be nervous if he approached a girl? Fuck no, he knows he’s eating either way. He doesn’t really give a fuck. He prob wouldn’t even approach realistically, but if he did, it be completely outcome indépendant and he would go into like ehhh, why not I can do what the fuck I want this could be fun.

And I’d like to also say indirect approach can achieve the same goal as direct, but it can be difficult to frame the interaction as you that is leading to sex, whereas a direct approach immediately lets it be known that the interaction is to explore attraction and it’s not platonic or friendly or polite.

Both are great ways to go and it depends on your style of game honestly. Experiment with it and do what feels right and what works for you.



Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Aug 15, 2018
The Old Continent
Start_ed_young said:
The reason direct approach fails so often especially for beginners
I don't have much to say about good looking vs. ugly guys, direct vs. indirect, but here it is: the most important quality for women in guys, at least according to Valentino is hygiene. Such as get a shower, wash your teeth, and use a deodorant. I have a strong opinion on 6-pack abs (in this part of the world or personally for me they are not necessary, or at least this is how I feel about it), but yeah, you can get a nice haircut and dress a bit better than the other dudes and you are already better than 95% of them. I'm in Europe, I have no clue about the States (The 3 Principal Types Of Game). Todd argues direct is better for beginners and as you progress you can go more indirect but who am I to know? I'm definitely not the biggest expert here, I'm in what some guys in the community call beginners' hell or intermediate hell. I'm not sure whether they are the same. Whatever. I'm a direct-indirect guy, more precisely, I like to go from indirect to direct, but of course I calibrate for the occasion and how much do I seem to like the girl (Fuck Yes or No).

Start_ed_young said:
3. Have a life: if ur at the mall with no shopping bags and you by yourself and you go up to a girl and tell her she’s pretty... that’s creepy. Why tf are you there? It needs to seem spontaneous and not like she’s being games by a guy who went to the mall to meet women lol. This is part of the reason why a popular technique in the seduction community is a false time constraint, “hey I have to get back to my friends over there (turns and points) *compliment. This way it seems like the guy 1. Has a purpose and 2. Social proof (he’s probably trustworthy if he has that many friends)
I don't know if it's worth arguing over the Internet at all, but now I'm in the mood a little. So this is the section in your post that made me grab the keyboard. Robert Glover (who has some life experience just got a new dating book out which I haven't read yet, but it's definitely on my list) argues that when going from A to B you should always take the longer road. I couldn't agree more.

But to get to your logical fallacy that being in a mall without any shopping bags whatsoever is creepy. Now completely taking aside that a mall has services like a cinema, restaurants, financial services, telecommunications services (a big one) or shops selling small items like watches or jewelries, or a pharmacy. Let's say your mall only sells clothes! When you enter the mall I bet you don't carry your shopping bag already. :) I've heard the average American buys at least 5 times more crap he needs. Sorry, I have nothing against your culture, but this is a well documented fact. For me it's not even geographical, but from where I'm coming from by my mindset is that a man should have fewer, more versatile, and higher quality clothes then a women. So even if your hypothetical mall only sells clothes and that's the only reason to go there (not like it's freakin' hot outside and you just came inside for five minutes to take a little longer road from A to B as Robert Glover suggests) a well dressed man would go and visit a bunch of stores to try a few stuff on before settling on the best possible item. Yeah, I've seen women going into one store, buying stuff, then going into the next one buying some new crap (it's on sale!). OK, probably some men do it too I just don't check men out as thoroughly. :) You may be interested in taking a look at my deep dive topic on mens' style.

Besides all this I can still identify with your sentiment. As with men's style I'm already at the point with most of the items I like and I should buy I can get at the best prices if at all online, you know what? I truly feel I don't have that much to do in a mall, really. Other than that it's cool in summer and it's warm in winter. We are far from winter but sooner or later it's coming. You may be interested in checking out my winter in the mall thread, thank you. Actually I'm such a creep that I game the shop assistants and the hostesses in the mall mostly. Taking everything aside, the mall is the only venue I haven't truly cracked yet. The streets, public transport, events, bar, and clubs are all dandy, but the mall? All in all it's such a weird place to me. Anyway. I was never called a creep there. The worst thing that's happened that the girl simply walked away.

Where should I spend my time besides my business at all? Having a business is a 24/7 job, for your interest. I take some food, meet some friends, and do some exercises. I attend some Meetup groups not because they are the best things in the world but to socialize a little and mostly that's it.