Do all PUAs have a Dark Past?

[metomeya]

Hey guys,

I was watching Tyler Durden on youtube which led to me watching his associate Jeffy on some neat topics. A Q&A revealed that his father was sentenced to 11 years for kidnapping Jeffy's mother and his mother's boyfriend and torturing them. WOW. Thats dark!

Tyler himself also talked about being severely depressed as a child and laying in the snow for hours waiting for the cold to kill him.

Seems like a lot of PUA guys I meet (both online and in person) either got divorced or once I get to know them talk about that one girl with tears in his eyes.

Actually, the few guys I know who have nothing dark in their past besides a below average life completely sucked at PUA.

Also, I read somewhere that only 3% of male are actually wired to NOT be monogamous, which means everyone is looking for a long-term permanent relationship. Does that mean something dark happens to that 97% that makes them seek game? Or does that 3% make up all of our community? I don't buy the argument that guys start to learn game cause they want a loving deep relationship with a girl. They might look it up because they want that relationship, but I think the big reason any guys learns game once they know of it is having casual sex with attractive women NOT for a relationship built on mutual love (maybe one for sex, lust, and/or obsession, but not love).

Makes me wonder: does every PUA have something dark in their past?

When I was younger, all I could think about was waiting for the right girl and start having kids right after college. That changes around 18 when I was betrayed by someone I loved dearly. After that all I cared about was how to get girls while a small part of me was still a hopeless romantic. Didn't happen overnight but slowly after that event.

What about you guys? Do you have something dark in your past? Or is your life just average? If the latter what pushed you to do PUA?

 

[trashKENNUT]

metomeya,

What about you guys? Do you have something dark in your past? Or is your life just average? If the latter what pushed you to do PUA?

In a way, Yes. but everyone has a past.

If we do not have a past, we would not somehow end up here.

z@c+

 

[NarrowJ]

I can tell you that the reason I am here is not because of my failed marriage, but rather due to the series of failed seductions after the end of said failed marriage. I knew I was doing something wrong and wanted to correct it. Actually, the Google search that led me here was "how to get a girl back", but it wasn't my ex-wife I was trying to win over... it was just some girl that I liked a lot and moved too slow with, only to see her hook up with some other guy instead.

What's my point there? I guess I'm just trying to say that there weren't any dark forces that led me to learn how to be good with women. It was just me knowing I sucked at something I wanted to be really good at, and then taking the time and effort to improve at it.

As far as people having "a dark past", I guess we'd have to define what that means. Sure, a lot of us guys over 25 have went through a divorce. Many of us have lost a parent or sibling. I'm also sure many of us have been arrested and thrown in jail for something stupid a time or two. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have "a dark past", but even if it did... it doesn't have to be the reason we are here learning these types of social skills.

Although my parents are divorced, I can say that I come from a good family. I had a wonderful childhood, was brought up well and was successful in school and college and hold down a pretty damned good job. I have a son who is awesome, and his mother and I get along great. I have really no criminal background to speak of outside of a few underage drinking tickets that I got back in college. So, I mean, it's really pretty simple for me. I don't think I have a dark past at all... Maybe I just like to hang out and screw hot chicks =)



NJ

 

[Marty]

Metomeya,

I don't buy the argument that guys start to learn game cause they want a loving deep relationship with a girl.

I kinda don't buy that argument either—they may want a loving deep relationship, but probably not with "a" girl (an individual girl, that is).

Here's how I see the matter. And no, I don't have a dark past—and I also don't care for the PUA term and wouldn't use it in reference to myself or my friends here.

Imagine for a moment that you have a "good" job. It pays a "good" salary—in this day and age, that is probably on the order of magnitude of $100,000 or so.

You reach, say, your mid-thirties and you feel you've done "okay" for yourself. You are rewarded for your hard work: you get perks, bonuses, the goodies of middle-management life. But the work you do requires a fair amount of your attention and dedication. You have to be personally in attendance to ensure that objectives are met.

And then you start to feel... not dissatisfied, but perhaps unfulfilled is a better word. You start to explore business opportunities... hesitatingly at first, but as you increase your level of confidence, you take on additional ventures. An online store here, a real estate investment there, perhaps a partnership with a trusted friend to create something new and innovative.

And all these ventures require your time and attention. You start to be absent from the office frequently. Soon enough, your closest colleagues begin to ask what's up, and you explain your feelings of lack of fulfillment.

Your colleagues, being "regular" guys, don't understand. "You get a good salary from here." "You could be fired if you're away so much." "What if the boss finds out... strictly speaking we're supposed to be exclusive to one employer?" "Don't we have a no-outside-interests clause?" And so on.

All the time, ignoring these attempts at discouragement from those would never have the wherewithal to take your path, you continue to build your experience, business contacts, and economic power. You know that you are taking substantial risk. After a few years of tough but rewarding persistence, you become aware of certain facts:

• The majority of your income is not coming from your salary, but from your multiple business ventures.
  
• Far from being fired, your company is doing all it can to hold onto you, now that you can contribute your expanded knowledge and contacts... should you choose to stay.
  
• Your business ventures no longer require your personal attention and dedication, because you have put in earlier effort to ensure that they run on a smooth routine. Neither does your day-job, interestingly. Your time is yours to spend as you please.
  
• Your colleagues have suddenly gone very quiet.

I'm sure I don't need to insult your intelligence by explaining each step of the analogy

-Marty

 

[trashKENNUT]

To all,

I am 24. Some of you guys are above 30. What is like to look at your past? What makes you guys motivated to come into this field? I mean the guys i know, in their late 30s, they come back and forth out of their divorce with their wifes or they pay for sex, go clubs. (It's one thing to try not to be like them, it's one thing to know that i can end up like them.)

To me, an "old" or rather Marty, i shall call you a "Veteran" , How does one look at dating from your age? (for all guys above 30 or 35)

z@c+

 

[Marty]

Zac:

Marty, i shall call you a "Veteran" , How does one look at dating from your age?

Very simple actually—it's what Franco always says. I wish I'd kept my skills sharp, kept actively meeting new women.

It's amazing how rusty you can get once you become complacent.

-Marty

 

[Eternity]

A bad case of one itis/ rejection led me to the PUA community. It has really opened my eyes though i remember"The Game" changed everything for me but i haven'r been practising much these days unfortunately. I've had a very difficult past not sure if it counts as dark....

 

[Drck]

The truth might be different than having a dark past. I was a day dreamer, especially during my teen years. Looking back, dreams are actually great, they gave me a different perspective on world in which we live. With increasing age I was becoming realist, and somehow many of my dreams became reality. Simple as that, I would never be where I am today if I weren't a dreamer.

But the problems with those dreams was that I too much idealized women and love. I dreamt a lot about being with perfect imaginary woman, 10/10, and about what love is (or how love is supposed to be and feel). Unknowingly, because of this dreaming I put any real women on pedestal; I became a nice guy by idealizing women and love.

Reality of course hurt, and because of this idealization I got rejected several times, and that was quite painful. I then realized the conflict between those dreams and reality. I see it clearly today, in man's mind woman cannot have higher value than he has. If man gives woman higher value he puts her on a pedestal, and we all know how that ends - sooner or later he gets disrespected, cheated on and eventually dumped.

So I had to change my perception of women, I had to decrease their value and increase mine by creating new system of personal believes, I had to learn that I am more important than she is. I modified those believes several times, and once they became dominant in my mind, I simply realized that I no longer give a damn about women. All they are good for is sex, so what for do you need to provide for them? That thing called love is only women's tool to manipulate men (perhaps they are not even aware of it); by using love women make men great providers.

From this point of view, love is just a form of attachment to a woman, once a man truly loves woman he is capable of doing many (good and bad) things because of her. Love feels great but in its essence it is only a trap, it is Mother Nature's great tool that makes men voluntarily submit to women. Love is useless, it is just a fake feeling designed to enslave you; by falling in love with her you will sooner or later become her servant. Get rid of it.

Many men dream, many men idealize women, many men have the urge to "get woman". Most men do it, and that is why most men are Betas. When you look around you can see it everywhere, around you, in the movies, shopping malls, at work place, even home. You could see it on this web, it is filled with it just by reading the topics. Most topics are the same, different words but the question is always the same: How can I become better in supplication? What do I have to do "to get her"? You can see all this supplication everywhere, women on pedestals, women with higher value than men, men who are nothing else than servants and so on. When you stop dreaming and idealizing, it is as if you take off foggy glasses and put on clear ones. Now you can see everything clearly.

The good thing is, that once you stop giving a damn about women it is actually quite easy to seduce them. You stop worrying about what to do and how, you don't worry about what to say and when, whether she leaves or dumps you and so on. You don't "get her", you let her "get you". Let her do the work, let her do the worrying whether you end up together or not, let her study seduction skills. Allow her to seduce you. Stop worrying whether you are Nice Guy, Bad Ass Alpha, Smart or Dumb, Provider, Seducer, Friend or just Nothing. Just don't care, became ignorant about what she says and thinks about you. You are just there, you let her know directly or indirectly that you are interested in sex, and she either leaves or goes with you. No need to analyze anything, no need to learn anything, just keep it as simple as possible. Vice versa, she won't have to worry about becoming your mamma, thus your natural attraction is in full power in both ways.

It is my believe that many guys who have problems with women are simply idealizing them too much. They dream about their faithful princess that will love only them forever and ever. He imagines and wants that this particular girl will be faithful to him only. Exactly the same way like mamma does.

Now, there are many ways how to "not give a damn". Some guy learns it on his own, other come to it through life experience, maybe some dark past, and another one was just raised like that. At the end it doesn't really matter, in its core not giving a damn it is just a mental attitude. Stop idealizing women, stop dreaming about them, drop all the desires for that thing called love - and you can have many of them...

 

[Chase]

One of the key distinctions here may be the PUA guru figures vs. non-PUA folk. The men I know who are naturally quite good with women tend to have pretty normal pasts. Many of the non-business-y PUA gurus all seem to have dark pasts, yes. The more business-oriented PUA gurus, conversely, seem to come from more normal origins too, as do most of the talented non-guru guys I've known who learned game later.

I suspect the trend Metomeya is noticing is the "media diva" PUA personality... the guys who want to be in front of the camera, have all the attention on them, build giant circles of hero worshippers they hang out with continually in real life, need heaps and heaps of praise, etc. In person, these guys can get almost insufferable because they want and NEED to be praised so much... one of the big red flags that gives them off is an inability to laugh at themselves. They must be taken seriously.

People who are in certain positions in life usually don't end up there by accident, and it's the same with most of the PUA gurus who are in front of the camera all the time. These guys go there because they need the approval (chasing girls can also be a form of approval-seeking, when guys use it as a source of continual re-validation by new women, though there are plenty of other reasons men chase girls, too). Loads of approval-seeking does often stem from a messed up background, sadly. Media guru-dom / diva-dom often ends up being a salve for this, but not a cure.

Chase

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

What I have found with PUAs and people that often join PUA sites is that most of them do it because of living pasts that made them into nerds. Most of the times it is because of parents who were overly protective and watchful of what their kids did. These guys grow up shy and introverted and then after realizing what they have missed out on they aggressively try to make up for their pasts by mass approaching a lot of women, being more outgoing than normal, and just analyzing the fuck out of human interactions. Some kids from my high school have gone down that path, I was more of a natural growing up.

Making up for lost time is what I will describe PUA as these days. These guys are trying to be a part of the cool crowd in the real world and want to be acknowledged as the cool kids. The thing about validation with these guys is that they didn't receive it while growing up so they want it now as kids to make up for it. With naturals who had the parents that made them social and the nicer upbringing, they aren't bothered by the validation because they had so much of it growing up and at times it becomes annoying to them.

I wouldn't say PUAs had a "dark past", they just had a past that was empty in terms of validation and being acknowledged as the cool kids so they resort to PUA and game to make up for that empty past.