Do you think dating is more difficult for men or for women?

[Vision]

I just did this poll in my women's dating community... I wanted to see what men think here and then I'm going to compare notes.

 

[Skjöldr]

Men for sure and it is only getting worse and worse. This is not something to whine about ofc, hence why we are on this forum, but to use to our advantage and push through and become better.

 

[ulrich]

It’s balanced if you take all people in consideration.

It only feels more difficult to regular men because they usually compare to attractive women.
It’s like a fat girl comparing herself to a stud... of course the stud has it easier.

Women get more invitations and many times don’t have to pay but they also:
a) Have smaller control over their suitors. They can only choose from the subset of guys who flirt with them.
b) Are judged harsher on things they don’t have control (her age, the size of her tits...)
c) Experience a huge drop in attractiveness later in life.
d) Need to take better care of their reputations.

No sex has it “easy” of you ask me.

 

[trashKENNUT]

I honestly not sure.

My brain is really scrambled in terms of dating, business and life.

On one hand, I see people get girls easily, get business easily. On the other hand, it's not. I noted this on the pandemic. I am seeing two parallel worldviews. Worse, both are right. Businesses selling the idea of hardwork which is a false narrative.

there's real hardwork and then there's customers buying into my dopamine emotion sales funnel, where if businesses are supposed to make you run so that we produce.

Elon Musk: "If you don't produce stuff, there is no stuff".

Bad idea to ask me this question. I don't want anyone in my predicament. It's a blessing and a curse.

z@c+

 

[Starboy]

If you take a man and woman who are equally attractive the woman will have more suitors and options. If you're a single man who isn't developed you will have nothing because women don't like men who aren't preselected by other women. You have to grind just to have options and choices while a woman will have much more handed to her because how valued feminine beauty is. Sure not all options and attention these women get are great choices,but it's not like they're all slobs like the thirsty men dming on ig.

I have seen not so pretty women,skinny flat girls, fat girls have fuckbuddies,boyfriends,get one night stands. I think it's a misnomer that we only pay close attention to the results of the hot girls.

Sure there's the argument that women have difficult securing commitment from the men and i've noticed it ,but who cares? They still get offered sex,attention, support without having to grind their tails off. A lot of men don't even get the most basic social needs,but women disregard that completely. If empathy isn't shared by women for men why volunteer it as a man?

Us men practice and learn game to catch up to women,get on their level and even that can be difficult especially if a woman is hot/gorgeous. In addition to that society always shifts their support to women and do their best to supress masculinity in society. We have to level up on the low and can't discuss this around people because what we discuss on this forum is "manipulative,sexist,mysogynistic"(yawn).

With all that being said I genuinely love women and will continue to work on improving myself as a man and by handling the things I can control.

 

[topcat]

I think it’s harder for women honestly.

Sure they can get sex easy, and sure many men will get into a relationship with them, but the quality of the men they end up stuck with? that is another story.

Many men lack the self-awareness or emotional control and foresight to give a woman the kind of relationship she needs. It’s all usually a grand celebration of sex and lovey feelings at the beginning tailing off to mediocrity and disappointment at the end.

The average man on the other hand is typically content just to have a woman in his life, and without one is usually far less depressed than would be a woman in the same shoes.

 

[ulrich]

Sure there's the argument that women have difficult securing commitment from the men and i've noticed it ,but who cares?

Women. They care.

All things equal, women have to grind less... but, if needed, grinding doesn’t get them as far.

 

[Vision]

For anyone who is interested... here's where we are with the poll in my women's forum...

 

[Skjöldr]

I think some on here realize that there are literally men out there who get NO ACTION at all. As in, zero. The average joe is having less and less sex while it stays the same for the average girl. Difficult for a girl is that yes, she can get sex and yes she can get a relationship, however she thinks the "quality is lacking". Lol, okay. Difficult for a dude is that he can get literally nothing. Good or bad. I blame this on porn and social media (including OLD). I would guess around 30% of dudes are incels.

Here's the caveat: Men have more maneuverability. If a man wants to he can work hard to improve his success and yes become very succesful, if he has the willpower. Women are more limited by their looks. Sure they can learn to fake max their looks with make up etc but after you bang her and wakes up next to her the day after that falls apart and you don't want to see her again. So it doesn't work long term for her.

Besides, i'm not an average joe anymore. I broke free. So it is not a concern to me. But comparing on average men vs women in dating who have a harder time, it is definitely men. Average woman thinks she have a hard time lol the average man have NO TIME at all!

 

[Will_V]

I don't think anyone has it easier. Women have more sexual options, men have more control over what happens afterward.

Both men and women, on average, are extremely ignorant of how to use what they have to get what they want. That's far more of an issue than the simple question of who has it easier than the other.

One might say that objectively men have it worse, since far more women have reproduced than men throughout history. But this is probably just a reflection of the inevitable fact that many men will never take the risks and sacrifices required to go as far as they can in life - which is a mortal sin as far as nature is concerned.

 

[Skjöldr]

I don't think anyone has it easier. Women have more sexual options, men have more control over what happens afterward.

Both men and women, on average, are extremely ignorant of how to use what they have to get what they want. That's far more of an issue than the simple question of who has it easier than the other.

One might say that objectively men have it worse, since far more women have reproduced than men throughout history. But this is probably just a reflection of the inevitable fact that many men will never take the risks and sacrifices required to go as far as they can in life - which is a mortal sin as far as nature is concerned.

Yes men have it harder, because men are more harshly selected in evolution. It is simply nature. It shouldn't be otherwise, but let's not pretend women have it harder than men.

 

[Beam]

Chase wrote an awesome article about this:

Who Has It Harder in 21st Century Romance: Men or Women?

Whose dating life is harder, men’s or women’s? The answer is nuanced… because there are different groups within both sexes. Contents 1. Men & Women Want Different Things 2. Do Men Have It Harder Than Women? 3. Men are the Best and the Worst 4. What You Go for in Cities Differs 5. Conclusion...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Will_V]

Yes men have it harder, because men are more harshly selected in evolution. It is simply nature. It shouldn't be otherwise, but let's not pretend women have it harder than men.

The problem is that you are looking at both men and women from the perspective that nature has accorded to the woman's role.

In nature, men and women serve completely different purposes. Each one has completely different conditions for success and failure.

The female is historically a fixture of nature. Most female animals do not choose their sexual partners. Males fight, someone wins, and the female simply goes into estros and submits. The female carries the baby, cares for it for as long as it takes, a baby she did not choose (but nevertheless, typically, doesn't have any problem at all with). Meanwhile the male goes and does what he wants with other females, enjoying all the fruits of his capabilities. He owes little to her in return for what she gave to him.

Is that a good deal? As a matter of fact, I think this simplified and primitive scenario plays out more than one might think in the lives of women, even in this day and age. As difficult as it is for many people to accept, a woman only fractionally controls her own desire. It is contrary to her nature to approach men, and the question of her choice is only barely conscious or rational. She is far easier to dominate emotionally than a man, and she operates on very strong instincts that mimic many of the most prehistoric aspects of courtship. In relationships, she is far more submissive and he is far more dominant, and especially when a baby is involved, she is way more vulnerable as well.

Already, if we are talking about 'equality', we can see that a woman has to date up merely to balance out her relative lack of power (divorce courts and feminism notwithstanding). Also, a man can marry a woman who is unintelligent and weak, and they can both prosper, but the same is not true when it works the other way around. This makes the quality of both their lives far more dependent on how good a male he is, compared to how good a female she is. So it's not even fair to compare men and women at the same level of sexual value.

A man, on the other hand, can conquer other men, even countries. He can fight and compete to multiply his wealth and power many times over, and decide to whom he wants to give it. And, he can be a complete failure, wiped off the face of the earth by his own self-destruction or in competition with better men than himself. What happens is in his hands - he can wander the depths of hell or the heights of heaven, and choose who he brings, for better or worse. And when a woman marries him, none of that capability transfers to her - she only gets some of the rewards of it, at his discretion. And she pays the price equally, or more, when things go south.

So on one hand you are right, men have it 'harder', if you think of both men and women as being just 'people' with the same stuff inside them. But in truth, men and women are so varied that you can't really compare them. Is it better to be a leader or a follower? Dominant or submissive? For men and women, the answer to this question alone is often worth more than all the sexual selection in the world - and the answers are different, coming from different natures, different perspectives, and different natural roles.

 

[Skjöldr]

Chase wrote an awesome article about this:

Who Has It Harder in 21st Century Romance: Men or Women?

Whose dating life is harder, men’s or women’s? The answer is nuanced… because there are different groups within both sexes. Contents 1. Men & Women Want Different Things 2. Do Men Have It Harder Than Women? 3. Men are the Best and the Worst 4. What You Go for in Cities Differs 5. Conclusion...

www.girlschase.com

"Your average guy doesn’t want a bunch of hookups with fat, ugly, aged women. He just doesn’t want sex with them. Likewise, your average girl doesn’t want lots of support from broke, weak, needy men. She doesn’t want those guys around her."

Chase makes a mistake here. The average guy would be happy to have sex with average women. He would be happy to commit and get into a relationship with an average girl he can have sex with. However, the average girl is not happy to get support from an average guy. This is where the standards argument falls apart. You are trying to say that both average guys and average girls have higher standards, but taken at a closer look, it turns out that it is the women who have too high standards with all things considered. It would be neat to say "men and women have it equally hard in dating" because that would be the epic hot radically centrist take, that paints you as a nuanced person who have taken more things into consideration than those who lean to either side, problem is that it is wrong. The average guy would be content with an average girl. The average girl would be discontent with an average guy.

 

[ulrich]

Chase makes a mistake here. The average guy would be happy to have sex with average women. He would be happy to commit and get into a relationship with an average girl he can have sex with.

You seem to be confusing average with desperate.
The average guy is not desperate... neither is he satisfied of shagging a regular girl every couple of years or so.

 

[Skjöldr]

You seem to be confusing average with desperate.
The average guy is not desperate... neither is he satisfied of shagging a regular girl every couple of years or so.

Nope, you missed my point.
Male 5 with female 5=content
Female 5 with male 5=discontent

 

[Will_V]

Nope, you missed my point.
Male 5 with female 5=content
Female 5 with male 5=discontent

On what measure is this '5' coming from?

If it's looks, then yes, certainly. But what constitutes an actual '5' for a woman is probably what you would consider a much higher value, because of what I described in my previous comment.

There is no such thing as an objective '5'. Many things that men value are completely useless to women, and vice versa.

I would even say that a woman's scale for evaluating men is necessarily exponential, because an average man is not one who has an average amount of resources, power, intelligence or charisma. Whereas a woman's looks can be plotted somewhat linearly, depending on your point of view.

 

[Skjöldr]

On what measure is this '5' coming from?

If it's looks, then yes, certainly. But what constitutes an actual '5' for a woman is probably what you would consider a much higher value, because of what I described in my previous comment.

There is no such thing as an objective '5'. Many things that men value are completely useless to women, and vice versa.

I would even say that a woman's scale for evaluating men is necessarily exponential, because an average man is not one who has an average amount of resources, power, intelligence or charisma. Whereas a woman's looks can be plotted somewhat linearly.

It's the average man. 5/10. The average. Not just looks.

 

[Will_V]

It's the average man. 5/10. The average. Not just looks.

OK, so how does the average man compare with the top man, in all the things that a woman requires from him? It's not half, or even close.

The average man is not really average in anything except his statistical position on a graph, which doesn't factor into a woman's interests.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Important.

Not my place to nag at you guys but This topic can go haywire. I'm really pissed that some of my old post got blocked because members suddenly go full on and it got blocked.

So yea, I recommend to establish 'common agreeableness' on this post before proceeding. What you guys consider what is fundamental, that you both or more people, agree with.

Otherwise, I see this post going haywire and Chase and the red tribal elders starts slicing off heads. Yikes.....

Not because they want to but because it's not productive.


z@c+