Just read a forum post on indirect direct...
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=378
This is what Chase wrote in response to this this thread...
Pete-
coconutpete wrote:
That's perhaps my personal ego problem but there always seems to be a "trying to get in your pants" side to using such direct compliments. Don't you sometimes feel that? The ideal being that the girl's interest should be pricked and she should be wondering whether you're interested, and then you imply that you might be - things don't work exactly that way, you'll tell me.
Watch any James Bond, from Sean Connery to Daniel Craig - how he speaks to a woman, how he sizes her up and looks at her. You get the distinct impression from the moment he meets her that not only does he want to get in her pants, but he's fairly confident sooner or later he will - whether he opens direct or not.
When I was first approaching, I tried my best to divorce opening from sexual intent too. The reasoning for me at the time was, well if she KNOWS I want her, then all interest is automatically forfeit and I'm automatically chasing... right?
But what I found was that women were consistently treating me like just some guy they met socially, and running off with these sexy badboy guys instead. Drove me nuts. I figured it was my technique, I thought I wasn't smooth enough, I worked on all kinds of things, and for the first two years of serious gaming I'd be picking up, but I kept hearing from girls after I slept with them, "Wow! I had no idea you liked sex that much! I didn't even know you were into me like that!" I thought about it, and decided that being thought of as a guy women figured wasn't all that into sex probably wasn't a very good thing - being the sexless guy's no good.
So, I did a lot of working focusing purely on sexual intent. I wanted everything I said to drip with sexuality. I wanted women to meet me and feel like my sex drive was a lion in a cage that couldn't hold it for much longer. I modeled it after the most sexual men I knew - guys who were bursting with so much sexuality you got the distinct impression that it didn't really matter whom specifically they ended up with, so long as they found SOMEBODY to ravish.
And it worked. Suddenly women were getting really excited around me, and calling me sexy, and calling me handsome, and flirting like crazy, and if their friends pulled them away they'd escape again and find me. My pulls were happening faster than ever, and got more and more consistent. As soon as I started making it obvious I wanted sex, beautiful women who also wanted sex from a sexy man who wants sex started gravitating to me like I was carrying magnets in my pockets.
I don't do too much coaching in-person anymore, but whenever I'm advising friends or whomever, a big part of my advice now is, "Get a sexual vibe. Get a sexual vibe. Get a sexual vibe. Women should FEEL like you're on the point of being about to rip their shirts off right now in public, but you're just barely restraining yourself. Get that vibe. Absolutely get it."
I've since realized the fear of seeming "too easy" is unfounded. Yes, if you're dripping with sexual power, women will know you want sex, and if you compliment them, they will know you are sizing them up for sex. But what they DON'T know is if you're just toying with them or if you're serious - they don't know if you're going to pull the trigger. And if you do a good job with your fundamentals, they will very much want you to pull the trigger. You build a different kind of anticipation then... instead of it being a sort of platonic curiosity along the lines of, "Hmm, this guy's interesting," it becomes a burning, primal need to know how things are going to play out between the two of you.
When a woman reads a romance novel and sees the lusty heroine and the sex-fueled hero bursting at the seams with testosterone look at each other with bolts of electricity zapping between their eyes, she KNOWS they're going to end up together, but she keeps reading anyway. In fact, she flips the pages even faster - and she starts getting nervous - "OMG, what if something happens and they can't be together," she thinks. "OMG, WHEN are they going to get together?" "OMG, they have to get together RIGHT NOW! COME ON, stop TEASING me! Something could HAPPEN!"
This mixture of excitement, knowing anticipation, and burning desire to know how it ends is what a woman feels when she meets a sexy man who's communicating sexual intent in her in a smooth, calm, measured way (i.e., not desperate, not throwing himself at her, but very calmly, gracefully letting her know he's interested).
The "trying to get in your pants" side to a direct opener is not something to run from - just something to make sure you cloak in refinement and social grace. Women don't go crazy for the platonic men who give them no indication of their interest one way or another - or else, girls'd be rabidly chasing down their asexual nice guy friends who keep telling them they don't want anything from them besides friendship. Instead, what they want is the sexy man, brimming with sex - and they just want him to tease them a little, and make them wait, and build some intrigue, and finally, when it's built up enough, provide them their release.
One caveat: if you are very new to meeting women, you might be better served leaving sexy to the side while you develop basic social skills. Women will be far less interested in mating with you, but they'll be a lot more likely to stick around and give you the chance to get used to talking to them than they will a guy who doesn't know what he's doing who's communicating sexual intent. Sex intent is sort of like a sword that way - beautiful and graceful in the hands of a man who knows how to wield it properly, but you want to get as far away as possible when you see a guy who doesn't know what he's doing with it swinging it around in the air.
Notice the last paragraph. I think it applies to me a lot! I have to properly learn how to have a normal conversation with a girl first before trying to act all sexy, and do it wrong. This leads to today's post...
July 25
Did around 10 approaches today. Nothing interesting to note today. Going out today just reinforced the idea that I...
1. Must work on opener!
2. Must work on conversation skills and deep diving and not letting her win the deep dive frame!
3. Must work on getting women to stay!
4. Must work on fundamentals!
• Posture. Strong posture makes you attractive, period.
• Movement speed. Powerful, sexy men move more slowly.
• Eye contact. Effective eye contact flirting makes you captivating.
• Expressions. Great facial expressions entrance and excite women.
• Gracile movement. Smooth, fluid movement sends strong signals.
• Voice. A sexy voice is mandatory for increasing your sensuality.
• Speech. Speak slowly and use the pregnant pause.
• Fashion. Get well-fitting clothes, a sexy haircut, and cool facial hair.
The thing I realized is that I've never had a real, good conversation with a woman I opened up on the street. All the good real conversations were with women who were sitting in a cafe, or standing still, looking at books. Today, I didn't focus on always opening with a pre-open because most girls were walking past me, so I just did what Ricardus suggested - start talking to them when they haven't passed you yet. Today, a typical approach looked like...
Girl is walking in the opposite direction as me and is about to pass me.
So I start talking to her when she's like 5 feet away.
I'll be like: "Hey, hold up a sec. Are you single?"
I feel that I should say this "Hey, hold up a sec" part more aggressively and louder. I said it today like a nice guy, not wanting to bother her...
The "Are you single?" part I feel that I deliver well. I mean, I cock my head back a bit and slant my eyebrows down when I say it. But girl's aren't really taken aback by it like when Ricardus says it to girls. One time, even a girl laughed, and said: "no".
So after I say this, the girl says no.
I say: "whatever, I can still talk to you."
Now...
EITHER
The girl will say something like: "No, I have to get going."
To which I will respond, "I won't take long, just two minutes." (walk with her)
If she keeps walking, I just stop and persist. But she usually just keeps on walking. (maybe I should walk with her and persist a couple more times before stopping?)
If I get a girl to stop walking, what usually happens is described next... (same to girl not objecting that I talk to her)
OR
She won't say/object to anything, so I ask her a question like:
"Let me ask you something. Do you ever travel or want to?"
OR "What's your occupation?"
OR "What are you up to today?"
OR "Were you born here? Or do were you born somewhere far away?
She will sometimes say something like a girl said to me today ...
Me: "Do you ever travel or want to?"
Her: "Yes."
Me: "Cool, where have you travelled?
Her: "A lot of places."
Me: "Then let me ask you this - where's the best place you've travelled to?" (rephrased better: where's the most amazing place you've explored?)
Her: "Ummm... probably China."
Me: "No way! My parents were born there. What did you like so much about China?
Told me a lot actually
Then I asked her where she would want to travel to if she could travel anywhere she wanted to.
She told me
I asked more about it and asked why she chose that place
She told me a lot
Then said she had to leave
Tried to close
Boyfriend objection
Persisted twice
No dice
This is a good deep dive, probably the best of the day. Most of the other scenarios were like...
Me: "What's your occupation?"
Her: "I'm an accountant."
Me: "Could you see yourself doing that for the rest of your life?"
Her: "Yes."
Me: "Why?"
Her: "I like it."
Me: "What do you like about it?"
Her: "It's good pay."
*I'm taken by surprise, because I expect her to say a lot, so usually at this point, I ask another question, but this is bad, because it changes topics too quickly - leads to awkwardness.
Now that I think about it, I should say something like: "So let me get this straight, you like this job a lot because it's good pay?"
Her: "Yeah."
Me: "Well scratch accounting, if you could do anything you wanted to, without having to worry about money, what would it be?"
*great way to counter her, she isn't going to win this one
OR
Me: "What do you like so much about textiles?"
Her: "I don't know, I just like it."
Me: "There has to be something you like about it."
Her: ...
Me: "So if you go to school, what do you do to keep your life from getting too stale?"
Her: "I don't know, talk to friends..."
Me: "Do you do anything else that is artistic?"
Her: "No..."
Me: "You go to an artistic school, you must do something artistic. Painting, drawing...?"
Her: "The conversation ends here."
*I look off into distance
Me: "If we're gonna be enemies, we might as well get to know one another before we fight."
She looks at me, sort of shocked I would even say
Her: "I play sports."
Me: "What kind of sports?"
Her: "Soccer."
Me: "Win any awards?" *smile*
Her: "Um, no."
Me: "How long have you been playing soccer for?"
Her: "13 years."
Me: "Wow, I bet you got the skills" *smile*
Me: "So what do you like so much about soccer?"
Her: "It's fun."
Solution: just dump girls who don't want to put effort into my questions, after all, that just means I didn't do well on my opener. If she wants me to get to know her, then she's going to put in the effort. Otherwise, just move on.
Goals for next outing
1. Posture
2. Walk
3. Speaking slowly, using lots of pauses
I really really want to work on the sound of my voice. I feel I have a high, sort of feminine voice and it pisses me off. I don't know how to change this other than forcing myself to talk lower, which I can't always do! That's pretending! I just have to read more on this I guess. And I also have to read more on commanding woman to stop in their path. Until next time!
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=378
This is what Chase wrote in response to this this thread...
Pete-
coconutpete wrote:
That's perhaps my personal ego problem but there always seems to be a "trying to get in your pants" side to using such direct compliments. Don't you sometimes feel that? The ideal being that the girl's interest should be pricked and she should be wondering whether you're interested, and then you imply that you might be - things don't work exactly that way, you'll tell me.
Watch any James Bond, from Sean Connery to Daniel Craig - how he speaks to a woman, how he sizes her up and looks at her. You get the distinct impression from the moment he meets her that not only does he want to get in her pants, but he's fairly confident sooner or later he will - whether he opens direct or not.
When I was first approaching, I tried my best to divorce opening from sexual intent too. The reasoning for me at the time was, well if she KNOWS I want her, then all interest is automatically forfeit and I'm automatically chasing... right?
But what I found was that women were consistently treating me like just some guy they met socially, and running off with these sexy badboy guys instead. Drove me nuts. I figured it was my technique, I thought I wasn't smooth enough, I worked on all kinds of things, and for the first two years of serious gaming I'd be picking up, but I kept hearing from girls after I slept with them, "Wow! I had no idea you liked sex that much! I didn't even know you were into me like that!" I thought about it, and decided that being thought of as a guy women figured wasn't all that into sex probably wasn't a very good thing - being the sexless guy's no good.
So, I did a lot of working focusing purely on sexual intent. I wanted everything I said to drip with sexuality. I wanted women to meet me and feel like my sex drive was a lion in a cage that couldn't hold it for much longer. I modeled it after the most sexual men I knew - guys who were bursting with so much sexuality you got the distinct impression that it didn't really matter whom specifically they ended up with, so long as they found SOMEBODY to ravish.
And it worked. Suddenly women were getting really excited around me, and calling me sexy, and calling me handsome, and flirting like crazy, and if their friends pulled them away they'd escape again and find me. My pulls were happening faster than ever, and got more and more consistent. As soon as I started making it obvious I wanted sex, beautiful women who also wanted sex from a sexy man who wants sex started gravitating to me like I was carrying magnets in my pockets.
I don't do too much coaching in-person anymore, but whenever I'm advising friends or whomever, a big part of my advice now is, "Get a sexual vibe. Get a sexual vibe. Get a sexual vibe. Women should FEEL like you're on the point of being about to rip their shirts off right now in public, but you're just barely restraining yourself. Get that vibe. Absolutely get it."
I've since realized the fear of seeming "too easy" is unfounded. Yes, if you're dripping with sexual power, women will know you want sex, and if you compliment them, they will know you are sizing them up for sex. But what they DON'T know is if you're just toying with them or if you're serious - they don't know if you're going to pull the trigger. And if you do a good job with your fundamentals, they will very much want you to pull the trigger. You build a different kind of anticipation then... instead of it being a sort of platonic curiosity along the lines of, "Hmm, this guy's interesting," it becomes a burning, primal need to know how things are going to play out between the two of you.
When a woman reads a romance novel and sees the lusty heroine and the sex-fueled hero bursting at the seams with testosterone look at each other with bolts of electricity zapping between their eyes, she KNOWS they're going to end up together, but she keeps reading anyway. In fact, she flips the pages even faster - and she starts getting nervous - "OMG, what if something happens and they can't be together," she thinks. "OMG, WHEN are they going to get together?" "OMG, they have to get together RIGHT NOW! COME ON, stop TEASING me! Something could HAPPEN!"
This mixture of excitement, knowing anticipation, and burning desire to know how it ends is what a woman feels when she meets a sexy man who's communicating sexual intent in her in a smooth, calm, measured way (i.e., not desperate, not throwing himself at her, but very calmly, gracefully letting her know he's interested).
The "trying to get in your pants" side to a direct opener is not something to run from - just something to make sure you cloak in refinement and social grace. Women don't go crazy for the platonic men who give them no indication of their interest one way or another - or else, girls'd be rabidly chasing down their asexual nice guy friends who keep telling them they don't want anything from them besides friendship. Instead, what they want is the sexy man, brimming with sex - and they just want him to tease them a little, and make them wait, and build some intrigue, and finally, when it's built up enough, provide them their release.
One caveat: if you are very new to meeting women, you might be better served leaving sexy to the side while you develop basic social skills. Women will be far less interested in mating with you, but they'll be a lot more likely to stick around and give you the chance to get used to talking to them than they will a guy who doesn't know what he's doing who's communicating sexual intent. Sex intent is sort of like a sword that way - beautiful and graceful in the hands of a man who knows how to wield it properly, but you want to get as far away as possible when you see a guy who doesn't know what he's doing with it swinging it around in the air.
Notice the last paragraph. I think it applies to me a lot! I have to properly learn how to have a normal conversation with a girl first before trying to act all sexy, and do it wrong. This leads to today's post...
July 25
Did around 10 approaches today. Nothing interesting to note today. Going out today just reinforced the idea that I...
1. Must work on opener!
2. Must work on conversation skills and deep diving and not letting her win the deep dive frame!
3. Must work on getting women to stay!
4. Must work on fundamentals!
• Posture. Strong posture makes you attractive, period.
• Movement speed. Powerful, sexy men move more slowly.
• Eye contact. Effective eye contact flirting makes you captivating.
• Expressions. Great facial expressions entrance and excite women.
• Gracile movement. Smooth, fluid movement sends strong signals.
• Voice. A sexy voice is mandatory for increasing your sensuality.
• Speech. Speak slowly and use the pregnant pause.
• Fashion. Get well-fitting clothes, a sexy haircut, and cool facial hair.
The thing I realized is that I've never had a real, good conversation with a woman I opened up on the street. All the good real conversations were with women who were sitting in a cafe, or standing still, looking at books. Today, I didn't focus on always opening with a pre-open because most girls were walking past me, so I just did what Ricardus suggested - start talking to them when they haven't passed you yet. Today, a typical approach looked like...
Girl is walking in the opposite direction as me and is about to pass me.
So I start talking to her when she's like 5 feet away.
I'll be like: "Hey, hold up a sec. Are you single?"
I feel that I should say this "Hey, hold up a sec" part more aggressively and louder. I said it today like a nice guy, not wanting to bother her...
The "Are you single?" part I feel that I deliver well. I mean, I cock my head back a bit and slant my eyebrows down when I say it. But girl's aren't really taken aback by it like when Ricardus says it to girls. One time, even a girl laughed, and said: "no".
So after I say this, the girl says no.
I say: "whatever, I can still talk to you."
Now...
EITHER
The girl will say something like: "No, I have to get going."
To which I will respond, "I won't take long, just two minutes." (walk with her)
If she keeps walking, I just stop and persist. But she usually just keeps on walking. (maybe I should walk with her and persist a couple more times before stopping?)
If I get a girl to stop walking, what usually happens is described next... (same to girl not objecting that I talk to her)
OR
She won't say/object to anything, so I ask her a question like:
"Let me ask you something. Do you ever travel or want to?"
OR "What's your occupation?"
OR "What are you up to today?"
OR "Were you born here? Or do were you born somewhere far away?
She will sometimes say something like a girl said to me today ...
Me: "Do you ever travel or want to?"
Her: "Yes."
Me: "Cool, where have you travelled?
Her: "A lot of places."
Me: "Then let me ask you this - where's the best place you've travelled to?" (rephrased better: where's the most amazing place you've explored?)
Her: "Ummm... probably China."
Me: "No way! My parents were born there. What did you like so much about China?
Told me a lot actually
Then I asked her where she would want to travel to if she could travel anywhere she wanted to.
She told me
I asked more about it and asked why she chose that place
She told me a lot
Then said she had to leave
Tried to close
Boyfriend objection
Persisted twice
No dice
This is a good deep dive, probably the best of the day. Most of the other scenarios were like...
Me: "What's your occupation?"
Her: "I'm an accountant."
Me: "Could you see yourself doing that for the rest of your life?"
Her: "Yes."
Me: "Why?"
Her: "I like it."
Me: "What do you like about it?"
Her: "It's good pay."
*I'm taken by surprise, because I expect her to say a lot, so usually at this point, I ask another question, but this is bad, because it changes topics too quickly - leads to awkwardness.
Now that I think about it, I should say something like: "So let me get this straight, you like this job a lot because it's good pay?"
Her: "Yeah."
Me: "Well scratch accounting, if you could do anything you wanted to, without having to worry about money, what would it be?"
*great way to counter her, she isn't going to win this one
OR
Me: "What do you like so much about textiles?"
Her: "I don't know, I just like it."
Me: "There has to be something you like about it."
Her: ...
Me: "So if you go to school, what do you do to keep your life from getting too stale?"
Her: "I don't know, talk to friends..."
Me: "Do you do anything else that is artistic?"
Her: "No..."
Me: "You go to an artistic school, you must do something artistic. Painting, drawing...?"
Her: "The conversation ends here."
*I look off into distance
Me: "If we're gonna be enemies, we might as well get to know one another before we fight."
She looks at me, sort of shocked I would even say
Her: "I play sports."
Me: "What kind of sports?"
Her: "Soccer."
Me: "Win any awards?" *smile*
Her: "Um, no."
Me: "How long have you been playing soccer for?"
Her: "13 years."
Me: "Wow, I bet you got the skills" *smile*
Me: "So what do you like so much about soccer?"
Her: "It's fun."
Solution: just dump girls who don't want to put effort into my questions, after all, that just means I didn't do well on my opener. If she wants me to get to know her, then she's going to put in the effort. Otherwise, just move on.
Goals for next outing
1. Posture
2. Walk
3. Speaking slowly, using lots of pauses
I really really want to work on the sound of my voice. I feel I have a high, sort of feminine voice and it pisses me off. I don't know how to change this other than forcing myself to talk lower, which I can't always do! That's pretending! I just have to read more on this I guess. And I also have to read more on commanding woman to stop in their path. Until next time!
