FR emotionally vulnerable girl

[Smith]

Hey guys,

So I went on this "date" with a girl I met sometime last week. We had a pretty good vibe going on in the initial interaction and when I asked her to grab lunch, she said no and offered to meet up another time. I thought cool no problem. Then I texted her an ice breaker, which she replied the next morning with this...
" Hey =)I'm sorry I should have clarified this yesterday when we were talking - I'm going through a break up so I don't ahve any intentions right now to date people. I realized I was being misleading yesterday and I sincerely apologized. I didn't really think things through. I'm very open to get to know you as a friend but that's completely up to you! I hope you understand."

Me: "I appreciate the honesty =) shows me you're a straight up no bs person. If you're not at a place in your life right now to meet new people, i can totally understand. I'm not looking for anything serious right now if I"m being honest, but I"m open to anything. We can just have a good time and no pressure or expectations."

Her: " Thanks for understanding =) that sounds good! tbh I'm more in need of just general social interactions with people haha"

Then I proceed to ask her to hangout this weekend. She offered to meet up at some other place, but I just teased her that the name of the cafe reminds me of my ex and offered another place, and she agreed. At this point, I don't really know what I want with this girl, so I was thinking I'll just play things by the ear.

meet up

She was running late, so I just ordered my hot chocolate and sat down. She arrived about 5 mins later and apologized for being late. She ordered her drink and sat down. After a bit of small talk, we started talking about our break, well more specifically, her break up most of the time. Now this was very interesting to listen to...She decided to break up with her ex 2 weeks ago, but she regretted it the next day and her main reason being that she lives in a small city and she's not sure how to meet new people again. I was mildly shock to hear this lol And she told me if she was living in a big city, she wouldn't worry about the break up so much. I just sat there and listen and took my time to understand how she feels and make assumptions and statements about it. Then we started to get to know each other. I was in a very good present energy and we actually have a lot in common - same hometown, almost the same upbringing..etc. I was starting to like her, but I feel like she wasn't ready emotionally to move on. We talked about our first kiss and stuff and were being slightly sexual. Anyway, time flies when you're having a good time and the cafe was starting to pack up. I suggested we go hang out at my place. She asked how far. I said two minutes and joked that I can't live too far from the campus, it kills me in the morning. On the way back to my place, she was walking close to me but her arms were folded because it was cold, so I just kept the vibe fun.

Once we got back to my place, she sat down on my chair instead of my bed. I turned on my laptop and played some music. Somehow we ended up talking about her break up again, and she was getting emotion and started crying. I was trying to empathize with her and put myself in her shoes to see how I feel but I just couldn't really relate, because my first instinct is to go out and meet new girls lol. I had to restrain myself from saying " just be positive!" or giving any advice because I know she just wants to be heard. So I just sat there and stay present. I would nod my head and let the silence sat between us. Then she would kept talking about how she feels. She's pretty self-aware about her weaknesses. I could tell that she's a pretty clingy person underneath and she even hinted that herself. She kept jumping from relationship to relationship and she doesn't know how to be alone. So she wants to learn how to be on her own again and have her own social circle. Honestly, I was thinking "fk ...I'll never get a chance now lol bad timing", but on the other hand, probably not the best relationship material.

The more we connected, the more I feel aroused. I complimented on her legs during the conversation then we watched some youtube videos. I touched her hand to guide the mouse when we were looking for videos and some innocent touch here and there. We came across a video of people trying to eat dog meat for the first time. She told me she's actually ok with it. I looked at her in disgust and pushed her chair away. Then she started to explain her self, and I tried to understand it from her point of view but also gave my point of view that I think dogs are pets that's why most people think it's weird. After a while she suggested that we go watch Bad neighbours 2. I was thinking whether I should just end this right now, but decided fk it let's see where this go.

We walked out of my place. I go for her hand when we were talking about abortion (Lol i know..weird timing to escalate but it felt like the right time) and she moved away. I just kept talking then I turned my head to look at her. She looked serious and said "I thought I was being clear that...." Then proceed to talk about how she's not ready *yawn.
I told her I understand and didn't say anything else. Then she wanted me to make a clear cut decision - either friend or we don't see each other again. I was thinking....she's really cool to hang out with but at the same time I really want to fuck her....I don't mind having her as a friend we have so much to talk about. So I didn't say anything and just trying to think. Then we saw her friends. She said something in korean...a word I have never heard of, so I asked her "is that another word for hello?" she laughed and said "that's her name!" We both laughed and the vibe was fun and relaxed again.

Then I immediately told her.
Me: "You know..I really enjoy talking to you"
Me: "but I also find you attractive"
Her:"Thanks... I'm flattered =)"

Then she asked me if I just go talk to strangers and ask them out. I said yea that's how I had all my relationships. I don't like dating people in my social circle. She agrees.

At her place, she grabbed her jacket then we walked to the cinema.I teased her about her high heels, which made her seem just as tall as me. I focused on giving value and not being pissed about getting rejected, so we were still having a good time. These days I'm experimenting with less escalation and let the girls chase, I remember whenever I had a good seduction, I always focused on giving good vibes rather than trying to just escalate heavily on the girl. So we watched the movie, which was actually a great date movie. A lot of sexual stuff in there that's funny. Out of the corner of my eye, I could catch her looking at me whenever something funny happened, but I just looked straight ahead.

Once the movie ended, we walked back to her place. Didn't really escalate but just talked about some of the stuff I'll be doing this week. I focus my intent on sex and tried to make sure that's came across in my subcommunication. I was hoping she would invite me upstairs but she thanked me for a good time and gave me a hug. She asked me if I wanted to use her umbrella. I said sure if she doesn't mind doing without an umbrella. She said sure just give it back to her next time. I wasn't sure if this was a way of her making me see her again or what. Even though I didn't really say I wanted to be just friends, I'm not sure where we stand now. And as I'm typing this, I kinda feel dreaded seeing her again and wished I didn't take the umbrella.

Things I did well
1. sex talk
2. empathize with the girl. Get her to open up more.
3. glad I still expressed my intent.
4. Stayed in my own lane. Collaborative frame. Not reacting to her.

Things I need to improve on
1. subcommunication
2. entitlement
3. ??

Thanks for reading this! Love to hear some feedback.

 

[andersen09]

Hey man! Great Article. I like how you stayed calm and neutral throughout the interactions.


Here's a few pointers.

#1. Always measure her investments, not her words.
I.E If she came into your house alone with you, without having known you, she's interested. If she really just wanted a friend, she would've never went to your house. (Major Investment)

#2. I like how you said about giving value and focusing on having a good time. You want to avoid talking about her ex WHEN she ASSOCIATES her EX with negative feelings. Because subconsciously, when she talks about her ex with you, you become associated with the negativity. AND you become associated as a guy who will be there for her negative emotions. What you want to do is

A. Macro: Address how she feels, show empathy, and quickly move on to the positive side. You don't want to RELATE to the girl when relating to her leads to a negative outcome.
You mentioned you wanted to say "BE POSITIVE" but I would take it a step further and state a lesson.

Examples could be.

Well hey, maybe your ex is out of the picture and I'm sorry that happened to you, but look on the positive side. You said you were afraid of meeting new people, but here you are meeting me already. Everyone has to go through the bad times to appreciate what's on the other side.
(Address & Empathize her problems. And move onto the positive things)


Chase mentions, show empathy with words, but keep a neutral tone.


#3 Focus on building on her investment/compliance


#4 If she STAYS after you attempt to move, it means she's THERE for a reason. Focus on having building compliance with her, getting her used to your touches, and also you can use CHASE FRAMES with a BARRIER. (Chase mentions this in his articles)

Because you KNOW she's there for a reason, (whether she knows consciously or not), when there's a high point you might say

"You know, I'm glad I came to talk to you. I would've never thought we would have this much fun and have connection with someone I just met. BUT It's too bad that you're "Insert Obstacle"


Good Luck!

 

[Chase]

Smith-

Ah, yeah, tough. Re this:

" Hey =)I'm sorry I should have clarified this yesterday when we were talking - I'm going through a break up so I don't ahve any intentions right now to date people. I realized I was being misleading yesterday and I sincerely apologized. I didn't really think things through. I'm very open to get to know you as a friend but that's completely up to you! I hope you understand."

I would’ve suggested a phone call as soon as she sent that super long “Oh no I can’t do this” text to your icebreaker. She was shifting the tone of the interaction there from “potentially to romantic” to “I just need someone to be friendly and social with.”

Which… it’s possible to work with, but you’ve really got to come in under the radar and build a ton of sexual tension without seeming to have any intentions toward her before you pull the cloak off and finally make your move. It’s a very different style of game.

A phone call would’ve at least given you the chance to say, “Whoa, hey, what was that ridiculous text? You’re acting like I want to marry you. I just thought you were cute and it’d be fun to get food or drinks. Let’s do something; no pressure.” That way you reject her reframe of it as a platonic meet, and instead reframe it as “Don’t worry, I’m not trying to replace your boyfriend, just the role he used to serve in the bedroom.”

As it were, your text response was… pretty damaging:

Me: "I appreciate the honesty =) shows me you're a straight up no bs person. If you're not at a place in your life right now to meet new people, i can totally understand. I'm not looking for anything serious right now if I"m being honest, but I"m open to anything. We can just have a good time and no pressure or expectations."

“I appreciate the honesty” = “I accept your frame”
“I’m open to anything” = “I will spend time with you in any capacity you’ll have me”

It’s not flirty, fun, or exciting, and it doesn’t attempt a reframe. Full nice guy. You can do better than that!

A far superior response would’ve been more like:

• Cool, yeah, breakups suck. And I don’t want to replace your boyfriend, I’m sure it’s still too soon for that. I do think it’d be cool to get food or drinks with you sometime. Maybe get your mind off the ex. What do you say – shall we meet?

Just make it clear you don’t want to replace the ex, but you do want to “get her mind off it” (implication of course is you as a potential rebound shag).

Rest of the date was okay, a little platonic, but not terrible. Until this:

Somehow we ended up talking about her break up again, and she was getting emotion and started crying. I was trying to empathize with her and put myself in her shoes to see how I feel but I just couldn't really relate, because my first instinct is to go out and meet new girls lol.

The stronger call would’ve been:

• I put my arm around her and pulled her into me, and started telling her it was fine, she’d be okay, while stroking her hair and kissing the top of her head and telling her, “Hey, hey, shhhh, shhhh, you’re fine, you’re okay, you’re a strong girl, you’re soft, you’re beautiful, you can do anything you want,” and then I brought her face up to mine and began to kiss her deeply and passionately.

After a while she suggested that we go watch Bad neighbours 2. I was thinking whether I should just end this right now, but decided fk it let's see where this go.

By this point, you’ve missed some windows and she’s steering you into a friend role.

Then again, with a girl who’s lonely and needy, who knows. If she keeps spending time with you, keeps opening up emotionally and coming over to your place, she’ll keep giving you chances.

I teased her about her high heels, which made her seem just as tall as me.

Worth noting that girls won’t usually throw on heels for guys they aren’t at least trying to impress. So even with a kind of milquetoast-y reply to her icebreaker response, you were still doing okay. Must’ve made a good first impression.

I was hoping she would invite me upstairs but she thanked me for a good time and gave me a hug.

“Hey, mind if I come in and grab a glass of water? My throat is parched.”

If you wait for girls to invite and initiate, you’ll be waiting a long time!

She asked me if I wanted to use her umbrella. I said sure if she doesn't mind doing without an umbrella. She said sure just give it back to her next time. I wasn't sure if this was a way of her making me see her again or what.

That’s what it was, yeah.

So, the bad is some botched opportunities to reframe things in your favor and potentially a big missed escalation window when she was all alone with you and in need of someone to make her feel like a woman again.

The good is it sounds like she still likes you, and may not have totally friend zoned you at this point. And even if you are “friend zoned” somewhat, she’s comfortable enough being alone with you that you stand a fair chance of pulling off a friend zone lay… IF you build a sexual atmosphere and make moves on her.

Not all hope is lost! However, continuing to play the wait-and-see game won’t likely be a winning strategy. You’ll need to be more of a leader here, Smith.

Chase

 

[Smith]

Thanks for the feedback Chase,

A phone call would’ve at least given you the chance to say, “Whoa, hey, what was that ridiculous text? You’re acting like I want to marry you. I just thought you were cute and it’d be fun to get food or drinks. Let’s do something; no pressure.” That way you reject her reframe of it as a platonic meet, and instead reframe it as “Don’t worry, I’m not trying to replace your boyfriend, just the role he used to serve in the bedroom.”

haha yea looking back that text was more platonic than I thought, even though I tried to give off the impression I'm not looking for anything serious, i.e. not trying to replace your boyfriend, but I guess next time I should just be more clear about what I mean. Learn my lesson here.

The stronger call would’ve been:

I put my arm around her and pulled her into me, and started telling her it was fine, she’d be okay, while stroking her hair and kissing the top of her head and telling her, “Hey, hey, shhhh, shhhh, you’re fine, you’re okay, you’re a strong girl, you’re soft, you’re beautiful, you can do anything you want,” and then I brought her face up to mine and began to kiss her deeply and passionately.

cool. Now I remember I actually tried something like this but I forgot to write it down lol Because she was sitting on my chair and I was on my bed, I walked over to her and wanted to give her a hug, but she was resisting it and saying it's ok.

Worth noting that girls won’t usually throw on heels for guys they aren’t at least trying to impress. So even with a kind of milquetoast-y reply to her icebreaker response, you were still doing okay. Must’ve made a good first impression.

damn. I'll keep that in mind haha

So, the bad is some botched opportunities to reframe things in your favor and potentially a big missed escalation window when she was all alone with you and in need of someone to make her feel like a woman again.

That really should've been my frame of mind when I met this girl... "I"m going to make her feel like a woman again" instead of whatever I was thinking lol

So the update with this girl is that I texted her about a week after, which I know now was probably a little too late. She didn't reply at all. I guessed she probably got back with her ex lol then it's been about 3 weeks since then (wow can't believe it's being that long lol) I still have her umbrella, so not sure if she even want it back. Overall, my big sticking point is really being man-to-woman, which I think I've improved on during my last lay after this girl.

Cheers,
Smith

 

[Bboy100]

Hey =)I'm sorry I should have clarified this yesterday when we were talking - I'm going through a break up so I don't ahve any intentions right now to date people. I realized I was being misleading yesterday and I sincerely apologized. I didn't really think things through. I'm very open to get to know you as a friend but that's completely up to you! I hope you understand

The moment a girl writes something like this, i would just take it to face value and move on to a more receptive girl. Yes, you can make it work for you, but as can already tell, it's going to be unbelievably difficult. And there are no guarantees.

Also, it sounds like the whole date was just you talking over her problems with her. This is admittedly a good way of building a connection...but not the kind you want. Unless it includes heavy physical escalation, you'll probably be slotted into "platonic friend who listens to all my problems" category. Based on the fact that she rejected your grabbing her hand, it sounds like that's exactly what happened.

Overall, I'd say that this was a good experience to have, but probably not worth pursuing any further.