Failed terribly on a date with a "intellectual/socialite" girl who ran circles around me. Help?

[770]

I will write a detailed report on this but she was a socialite type, bisexual. Not exactly like rich or in super coveted circles, but I mean the type to actually be stimulated by intellectual topics and fully emeshed in that culture where most girls I meet prefer talking about emotions and their day to day life. Beautiful (without trying to put on a ton of makeup!) young and very intelligent and into arts/literature, studying at a top liberal arts college. She was in qualifiyng mode the whole time, we matched online and I am a creative intellectual type but not very good at articulating my interests too well, and not as realized as her because of prior focus on a solid career (SWE) and she was kind of turned off by it I guess. She would frown in response to some of my answers like she didn't like it.

Is it possible to get girls like this if I'm not socially/conversationally on the same level at her? I'm introverted type and kind of come across as boring I guess, or logical. In my past date with the cougar I just focused on kino and sexual topics but she was way easier, more basic convos and more compliant.

She was kind of a "final boss" and I wasn't prepared at all. Definitely one of my types of girl but damn, incredibly elusive for sure and I couldn't even conceive trying to have a relationship with a girl like this. I definitely wanted to lay her though. I tried to kino her several times just lightly touching on her shoulder and I sensed the first two times she was uncomfortable and stopped and the last time she rebuffed me directly said "I'm good bro", I think maybe I was asking if she was cold and needed my jacket but I don't remember but I thought it was a double entendre. Anyway I got negative subcommunication from trying to even touch her shoulder so didn't feel confident in trying anymore and the date was coming to a close. :-( I kind of gave up after that. I kind of got stuck answering her questions and going back and worth with her, I kind of got flustered or put on the spot many times trying to logically recall an answer such that my "sexual brain" stopped working. Obviously she enjoyed talking to me because she revealed a lot about herself and her life openly but definitely social vibes instead of date vibes.

She was a very uncommon kind of girl to me, I hardly meet with intellectual girls ever (NEVER this beautiful), I only have a few rare guy friends and enjoy intellectual conversations with them, but I was really confused on this date on how to proceed. She ran circles around me. I increasingly lost social value and sexual value in her eyes while she kept asking me questions even if they weren't necessarily qualifying she would frown or something when she didn't like an answer. Very judgmental girl, cares about social values and interests for a compatiable guy. I was hoping I could slash through that entire frame but really I don't have the skills to do that.

She was also bisexual, said she never dated a straight guy before (only likes bi or feminie guys or masculine girls, yeah I do match wth a lot of bisexual girls online though so I probably seem feminine to her. I'm asian), definitely made my mind twirl and worry about how I should be differently escalating to get her, but ultimately I should have just kept the same gameplan. She told me how she gets way too much attention on the app and it kinda fucked with my head a bit and actually deceived me into thinking she was better than me or I was lucky to be on a date with her that she found me more interesting than most other options. My gameplan kind of fell apart from the get go because this girl was basically giving me red/red-orange light the whole interaction to begin with and I struggle dealing with objections as flagrant as these because it's kind of breaks my ego and I can't function.

Basically, how to handle social/logical/kino objections...?

Last girl I went out with was shy and moderately compliant so I got laid with her. Coming into this I was confident but I definitely wasn't ready for her beauty or her social prowess. Ultimately I messed up trying to impress or fit into what she was looking for instead of just trying to kino, but definitely tough for me to say for sure because I'm such a newbie what the right path was towards escalating. Sometimes I get caught up in just enjoying the conversation or admiring a girl which is DEFINITELY what I was doing here but it was making me platonic and beta.

 

[770]

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[topcat]

I wouldn’t have escalated with her until I had her qualifying to me.

I’d try to find out how she wants to be seen by the world/what she values/thinks is attractive about herself and have her prove it to me..

Oh she’s well read? Tell me about that..
Oh you love art..tell me about that..
Her hopes and dreams, fears…is she actually as cool as she thinks she is?

If she is and continues to comply by opening up and responding favourably to my questioning ONLY THEN would i begin kino, complimenting her on her intelligence (or whatever cool traits she has) and turning more of my body to her/closing the gap between us.

Ramp up the compliance asks from there whilst making sure to reward her and you’re far less likely to run into serious objections.

 

[770]

I wouldn’t have escalated with her until I had her qualifying to me.

I’d try to find out how she wants to be seen by the world/what she values/thinks is attractive about herself and have her prove it to me..

Oh she’s well read? Tell me about that..
Oh you love art..tell me about that..
Her hopes and dreams, fears…is she actually as cool as she thinks she is?

If she is and continues to comply by opening up and responding favourably to my questioning ONLY THEN would i begin kino, complimenting her on her intelligence (or whatever cool traits she has) and turning more of my body to her/closing the gap between us.

Ramp up the compliance asks from there whilst making sure to reward her and you’re far less likely to run into serious objections.

That makes sense, thank you. I didn’t think about it this way, as a reward. I was trying to ask these deep diving questions but she kept asking me questions about myself and my life on repeat and I couldn’t keep up. How would I object to it in a way that would be smooth?

 

[Water]

How did you find out she was well read? I take it she projected (wrote about it or talked about it?) these qualities that intimidated you? Being well read, intellectual, going to a top college for arts and literature?

My advice would be to not put her on a pedestal or be intimidated by such things. Understanding that the qualities you find intimidating is actually not difficult to achieve or self-identify as.
A good rule of thumb for me to determine how integral a certain aspect someone’s life is: The more often they randomly talk about a subject generally means it is not a huge part of their life.

Unless they’re actively making money off of something, and are advertising that. An internet famous musician who’s also a hot girl I have added on social media, she advertises about her upcoming shows often, but if someone is not profiting from it and they’re constantly bringing it up, it means it is not a big part of their life. I did take this girl on one date before, we still talk time to time, and one of her pictures is viral, if you google “hot redhead” her pic is one of them, last time I checked. The pic doesn’t look like her, it’s a super perfect angle, the pic makes her look like a perfect 10, which she is not.

Nobody who reads a lot posts about or keeps talking about reading books repeatedly on social media. Most regular gym goers and serious athletes don’t repeatedly post about going to the gym. Etc. I’ve seen a hot girl try to come across like a well read person, she made a post including a picture of a copy of a classic book, and she made a similar post with a picture of the same book several months later. I was probably the only one who noticed, but the second post only showed me that she never finished the book in several months, and it isn’t a thick book, roughly 200 pages. Well read people don’t advertise that they’re well read, just like rich people don’t keep saying they have money. I’ve consistently finished reading 2 books a week since the age of 17/18, and I basically never talk about it or write about it, I don’t think I’ve ever made a single social media post about reading before.

I would almost be annoyed or offended if a girl tried to one-up me in terms of being well read or familiar with classical literature. I’d bet I’ve read more books than her and have read more of the classics than her. That’s a non-factor (not a big deal) in seduction unless you make it one.

Also, studying the arts at a university is comparatively very easy (I think it is standalone simply easy, depending on the university and which art, only acting and music at a top university is difficult to my knowledge, drawing, painting, visual arts and being an English major or writer or something to do with history or literature are easy) versus majoring in something technical or in a STEM (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) field. My sister falls into the same category as this girl, so from a close perspective I can tell you it’s not that impressive, and simply studying it at a top university doesn’t mean much. A girl(or anyone) who is living completely off of a career in the arts is impressive, but while they’re a student, especially in a safe environment like a university, is not impressive.

I switched career paths from heavy science oriented to a more artistic pursuit, so most of my recent friends are legitimate artists (actors, actresses (still like to be called actor), musicians, etc.) When you get to know enough of them it’s not something that intimidates you. It is something interesting and something you can admire (certain qualities like the difficulty it takes to succeed in an artistic field, how they’re not living life chasing the dollar, they’re following their passion rather than the highest paying job.

It technically should be more intimidating for a girl to have a perfect 4.0 GPA majoring in physics or chemistry or biology. One girl in my major was one of a kind, she scored 100% on every exam and had perfect grades, was kind, never bragged (I had to pry to find out her gpa and grades), and was incredibly fit and hot. Generally speaking, the more difficult a subject / major is, and the further along the education process someone is (bachelors, masters, doctorates, post-docs), the less physically attractive girls are. So it’s rare for a girl to be in this subject and be really hot, even more rare for them to be doing very well and be hot too.

Sorry, this post was not as coherent as I normally write. I’m multi tasking.

 

[770]

Thanks you made a lot of good points, definitely no reason to be intimidated but maybe it was just her control of the conversation that made it difficult for me. I just felt like she was hoping I would match her interests better but I didn't really. I struggle with being too empathetic, I honestly felt bad on the date after she gave me negative subcommunication trying to kino her. We ended the date kind of so-so, a half hug and cordial goodbye. I wrote her "cool meeting you, have a nice night" after the date, even though I know it went terrible under the surface. She replied the next day (this evening), "hey! honestly can't say the same, but have a great night too." Probably not going to as I understand it's just an issue with my fundamentals, but any worth in asking her for feedback?

 

[770]

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"If you do not match her social frame, you will not have permission to express interest and escalate the vibe. You risk facing a premature soft rejection because she sees you as not her type of guy."

Came across as incongruent or not in her social frame enough. So the potential for attraction was extremely low.

 

[topcat]

How would I object to it in a way that would be smooth?

Slow her down by treating her rapid fire questions like a shit test..

-“ god damn this feels like an interrogation…where did you say you study again? Guantanamo was it?”

- “i’ll get back to you on that one” *pretend to be thinking real hard*

- Or just change the subject on her.
Straight up tell her “these questions are boring me…”

- “Fail” her line of questioning by understating everything you do and suggesting that you’re really just a boring person until she grows tired or frustrated with asking you and quits. Then pick up the conversation at your pace with some lighthearted teasing conversation and switch to deep diving once she’s more compliant.

- Genuinely be bored of her line of questioning and subtly start showing it, answer with little enthusiasm, turn your body away from her. Get distracted. Nurse your drink. Interrupt her by taking a bathroom break.

Remember the goal of any seduction is to find out why a girl is interesting/cool/sexy/worthwhile beyond her looks, get her complying and reward her compliance all the way to the bedroom.

If she won’t comply you need to withhold your attention otherwise you’re literally rewarding her for not liking you…