FR+ First date ever, don't know how to feel about this one

[Payload]

Have a cute roommate. Didn't really talk to her until today, connected and flirted heavily, I invited her to take a walk with me, which she agreed to. Takes a lot of time to get ready, she texts me about it, I tease her, all good. Gets out with makeup and a revealing shirt.

Getting out the door she throws me a curveball, wants to go shopping, but just for some drink. It is only 3 minutes away so I agree.

On the way she asks many questions, we talk, arrive at a bench where we sit down. Talks about a creative hobby of hers I compliment her on, lay my arm around her. Caress her shoulder, she asks whether I don't need any permission to do that. I ask her back if I do, she says yes, I stop carressing for a bit. Begin half a minute again, she shows me her portfolio, I move onto her hair, she aks again, I say I don't think I need permission, she says "Okay, you probably don't". Moving onto her neck she asks what I am doing with her neck, I say I guess I like playing with her neck. Also ask her "Don't you like it" or "Seems like you enjoy it", can't remember. "Don't you like it" seems like a chump question. Have the feeling I waited way to long.

She says, "Okay, I go on instagram now", turns weird music on.

I awkwardly transition something into "I like your face", grab her by the chin and try to move her head slightly. She resists, I go for the kiss anyway. It's not like she is surprised, not exactly excited, can't remember whether she said anything. Tell her that she made it awkward and now we have to try again. Stop caressing her and move my hand from her shoulder, slide an inch back. Don't know whether it was the exact right move accidentally or whether I almost fucked myself then, when: She told me she wants to go, to which I confidently moved away from her and told her "Okay, let's go" (as in let's not continue this). She laughs a bit and says she doesn't want to go. (Have to research what that was about, probably her saying she feels a bit uncomfortable and then reeling back once I implied we can stop this right now)

Says she is very shy about stuff like that. She inquires whether I have a gf. I ask her what she thinks as I lay my arm around her again. Kinda don't want her to take it as me saying she is my girlfriend now, but she doesn't and continues asking. I evade three or four times, at the end I say that I had one (I haven't, am a virgin). She says "Okay, so you had one (but no longer)" and after a minute lays her head on my shoulder. I lay my head on top of hers and continue caressing. She changes music "because I guess it doesn't fit the vibe".

She tells me she is afraid that her "doing this" will create tension between us with her living in the shared flat as well, I tell her it doesn't have to and that I like her. Add that life is boring without a little risk, like a little jump off a springboard. After a while she says something to the effect that we don't have to continue this but this (head on shoulder) is nice. I then rephrase a gambit (?) of Hector in his King of College book (highly recommend it, wait for the remastered release) where I tell her that I have noticed with my friends and sometimes myself, that we have grandiose ideals like going to the gym 5 times a week but then don't follow through. Taking steps toward something you would like to do will lead to a more interesting life down the line.

"I get what you are saying, I am really shy about that", I tell her that I guess we can take a moment and just enjoy the view. Sensing that she has to process, I take another page out of Hectors book, remembering the time where he waited for a chick to calculate in her head whether LMR was the choice she wanted to make. A few minutes go by, and me, ever wary of missing escalation windows call her name, move her chin up a bit and kiss her again.

To be honest it wasn't great, I didn't have any experience and she apparently either didn't or had very little. Kissed her four or five times and then stopped. A bit exasperated she exclaims that "I guess I took the risk". Reapplies the lipstick, warns me to not mess it up again, we both slyly look at eachother and I tell her I can't promise. I don't remember what we talked about after that, but she wants to go.


Asks whether I am happy (as in she isn't and I conquered her against her will?), I'm a bit disappointed about that but don't show it, stop and kiss her. Ask her whether there is mint in the lipstick, which there is. I want to say that I like that but blurt out that "You're my favourite", making it seems like she is one of many. On the way back she says that "I guess you are the player". It is cold, I hear "This is a bit awkward and I normally only do this with friends and my father, but can I put my hand in your pocket", she puts it in, we lock fingers, "I guess you can take it". On the way back she at one point crosses arms and I - a bit awkwardly - take her hand again, "I only did it because of the pocket", puts her fingers back in, I mock her that "Of course, it was only because it was cold". Her eyebrows rise, eyes go big and it seems like she's serious, tries to pull her hand away slightly, but I pull her with me and declare that she is coming with me.

Back in the hallway of our building she mentions how she has to shower and that it is late - only 10:30 on a friday evening, which I call her out for. Some bs response. Unlocking our door to the flat I seriously contemplate whether to invite her to my room. I don't want to seem pushy, as she apparently is pretty inexperienced and I am aware that I am still clumsy and I honestly don't think I can handle escalating, the vibe isn't sexual at all as well. She thanks me for the time and goes into her room. Guess I got outframed.

Conflicted, I begin to write this FR and actually stop it to invite her to my room, tell her I want to show her my turntable and that we don't have to do anything, just listen to a bit of music. She laughs says she knows, but also says she really needs to lay down. I don't press her further, too unsure on how to proceed.


I am aware that this is a huge text dump, but this is only my 2nd FR and I am still new, so everything seems important and I want to document everything. Will change with experience

Lessons: Rephrasing what I already theoretically am aware of, but ya know, experience>booksmarts
-Objections are tests for confidence. Show her this is normal and she will accept touch
-don't take requests for moving at face value. Made me look like a bit of a clown when I jumped up 2 minutes after sitting down when she said she is thirsty and wants to go home (was a test, "I was joking")
-be more sexual with your words, don't talk about family or her studies after kissing (?)


Questions:
-How the hell do I create oppurtunities for kissing when she is unsure, how do I address those mixed feelings
-Did I lay it on too thick with the gf question and lipstick comment, or does she need to feel like I am a player which makes it okay that I kissed her that "fast"
-what is the pipeline for virgins/inexperienced chicks and how fast should I escalate at different stages of my experience


Going forward:
I am honestly not sure whether she enjoyed it at all. I don't want it to feel like I took something from her, but maybe that's a me problem and she wants to think that to protect her from feeling like a slut (or her being just inexperienced). I will definitely try to move her to my bedroom, probably cuddle a bit and trying to escalate. Don't know whether I should up comfort first (but is that really a thing for the bedroom?) and will have to read up on LMR ASAP.

I am explicitly asking for your guys' advice, unsure on how to proceed concretely. If she even wants to continue this.

 

[gameboy]

Sounds pretty smooth for a first date! I mean, first-in-a-lifetime. Apparently for both of you.

As for kissing, it gets better with practice, trust me. I remember the first (actually second) time I kissed a girl, I was so excited that I completely messed it up because I was too nervous, but it was still a lot of fun.

I wouldn't say she needs to feel that you are a player, like you said already, you don't want her to feel she is one of many.

It's always good to push for escalation, also good you didn't push it too far and accepted her not wanting to come to your room. If/when she does, assuming you are both virgins, I'd say just take your time, explore what you both are comfortable with. Don't go in with the expectation that you have to have sex and that it has to be great. My first time having sex was a one-night-stand in a foreign country where I actually got picked up by a girl. She was 2 years older than me. I had no idea what I was doing, but the girl was apparently a bit more experienced. If she hadn't been, I don't know what we'd have done... it was a good thing that she took the lead on that occasion.

So yeah, take your time, just fool around and have fun. See what the girl is comfortable doing (EDIT: actually, what you both are comfortable doing). Let one thing lead to another.

 

[Payload]

Here is an update to the whole thing.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

On the way she asks many questions, we talk, arrive at a bench where we sit down. Talks about a creative hobby of hers I compliment her on, lay my arm around her. Caress her shoulder, she asks whether I don't need any permission to do that. I ask her back if I do, she says yes, I stop carressing for a bit.

Pretty forward lol. How long have you been living together? Roommates are one of those "moving fast might actually be bad" situations. If you succeed, congrats, you can't date any other girls without an absolute fuckfest of drama and if you do end up with her, now you live with your girlfriend.

Says she is very shy about stuff like that. She inquires whether I have a gf.

She seems to be pretty okay with your very aggressive escalation. So there must be more here that is positive, because how it reads, she's totally not interested, but this shows me she's okay with your aggression to a certain extent.

Kinda don't want her to take it as me saying she is my girlfriend now, but she doesn't and continues asking. I evade three or four times, at the end I say that I had one (I haven't, am a virgin)

Why would she be your girlfriend from any of this? Jumping to really extreme conclusions.

and now you're lying that you have a girlfriend? Not a fan of this at all.

I then rephrase a gambit (?) of Hector in his King of College book (highly recommend it, wait for the remastered release) where I tell her that I have noticed with my friends and sometimes myself, that we have grandiose ideals like going to the gym 5 times a week but then don't follow through. Taking steps toward something you would like to do will lead to a more interesting life down the line.

This is good from a seduction perspective. Turning her fear into an opportunity.

"I get what you are saying, I am really shy about that", I tell her that I guess we can take a moment and just enjoy the view. Sensing that she has to process, I take another page out of Hectors book, remembering the time where he waited for a chick to calculate in her head whether LMR was the choice she wanted to make. A few minutes go by, and me, ever wary of missing escalation windows call her name, move her chin up a bit and kiss her again.

Good patience.

bit exasperated she exclaims that "I guess I took the risk".

Very good response.

Asks whether I am happy (as in she isn't and I conquered her against her will?)

If she just asked, "are you happy?" then you're reading too much into it. Just say "yes" and kiss her again. Tell her you like kissing her. You're making too big of a deal out of it.

I want to say that I like that but blurt out that "You're my favourite", making it seems like she is one of many. On the way back she says that "I guess you are the player". It is cold, I hear "This is a bit awkward and I normally only do this with friends and my father, but can I put my hand in your pocket", she puts it in, we lock fingers, "I guess you can take it"

Don't lie. And even if you are player, don't say shit like this. It can work but it's pretty unnecessary/toxic.

You're pretending to be something you're not and it's going to have drastic consequences on your connection with her and her trust for you. You can maybe get laid or get some sex but you'll have HUGE trust issues with her and will eventually lead to her being cold.

And having read all of the updates about her up to the last one, it all started with this behavior. You're setting up yourself as this player and she's kind of excited about your persistence, cuz at least you're not a pussy, but unless you can deliver the goods, you're going to underwhelm her expectations and ALSO have trust issues...it's a ticking time bomb.

 

[Payload]

Pretty forward lol. How long have you been living together? Roommates are one of those "moving fast might actually be bad" situations. If you succeed, congrats, you can't date any other girls without an absolute fuckfest of drama and if you do end up with her, now you live with your girlfriend

Yeah, I am beginning to realize that. I think we lived together for 3 weeks at this point, I chatted with her a bit when we first met. In the first week she invited me to her room for me to help her with a train ticket, sat close to her, touched her finger while taking her phone, she was comfortable with it. Also showed me her mirror which had wonky spots. Took the oppurtunity to direct her to stand in front it, laid both my hands around her ribs and pushed her up, explained how it looked like one of those carnival mirrors. Pretty bold move as she later told me, but I guess it set the tone.

She seems to be pretty okay with your very aggressive escalation. So there must be more here that is positive, because how it reads, she's totally not interested, but this shows me she's okay with your aggression to a certain extent.

We aggressively flirted in the kitchen, I playfully kicked her butt, she made us coffee and we sat next to eachother. Put my arm on the back of her chair, so the situation at least wasn't new to her. I actually was suprised how far we got as well, she was kinda awkward on the bench.

If she just asked, "are you happy?"

She said it in an exasperated way as well, but I agree that I read too much into it.

Don't lie. And even if you are player, don't say shit like this. It can work but it's pretty unnecessary/toxic.

I mean yeah, I only wanted to say that I like that in a cute way, it came out as if I wanted to spell it out for her that I am a player.


Too be honest I don't want women to think that I am a virgin because I don't want it to hurt my chances. It's more useful for it to seem like I have gotten pussy in the past.