First Date, girl is aloof & not engaging

[Estate]

Guys,
Little frustrated this morning. I'm looking back over old articles but can't quite find the one I'm looking for.

I've come up against this a few times lately and it's really frustrating me, including last night. I've really tried hard to just go after girls I am really attracted to. The 9's and 10's as some would put it.
I'm just finding that if I run the same game as I do with any other girl, it's just not going anywhere.

With a 6,7,8 the date will go just great and they'll want more, but to be honest, I know I don't want to date them anymore. I want a girl I am actually really attracted to.

Case in point, last night... Met a girl last week, seemed great, got her number, she was very enthusiastic on the phone, etc...
She showed about 20 mins late to the date, but no big deal.
We got a seat at the bar, immediately she order the most expensive drink on the menu.
Sat facing into the bar, basically not towards me.
Sat on the opposite edge of her chair as if she was going to fall off to the point it looked awkward.
Really not engaging in conversation.
I tried to deep dive and tell some stories, banter, flirt, etc... which would engage her up to a point, I could see he eyes light up at times but even then, she'd let it go flat unless I just kept pumping it and I literally got tired of it and ended the date.

To be honest, it didn't feel like she wanted to be there at all.

Now, obviously the point Id make myself to anyone would be that you need t amp the attraction on first meeting and getting her number, that goes without saying.
But that seems to go well... as I said, they are enthusiastic leading up to the date but right off the bat they just appear aloof and uninterested when you meet them again.
They'll sit there with a "Let's get this over with..." attitude or an "Well, I'm here... now impress me" look on their face when you meet them.

It's frustrating to be able to open them up for moments at a time and you can see it in their eyes but it's almost like they have already resolved not to let themselves be caught up in it.

Honestly, I'm just really PO'ed... I feel like a meal ticket with this girl... really didn't even try, ordered the most expensive thing in the place and there wasn't so much as a thank you after. Basic manner or courtesy.

To put it in perspective, if I run the same game with the "regular" girls in town, students, post-grads, working types, it goes just great. This girl is a model, very stylish, obviously thinks highly of herself, great body and I guess girls like that know it too.

I'm banging my head against a wall a little. I've gotten several girls who are models, high status career women, etc out on dates lately but they have really bombed. I need to change it up but I'm struggling as to how/what/where.

 

[Marty]

Estate:

May I ask a clarification question? Might help to get the discussion rolling...

tell some stories, banter, flirt, etc... which would engage her up to a point, I could see he eyes light up at times

What made you want to "tell stories"? I'm well aware that you know better than to try to impress and entertain, so there must have been some good reason.

Was there nothing you could do to get the spotlight onto her? Not sure what age she was but sometimes with younger girls you can ask about her mom and dad—Millennials seem to be crazy about their parents, well into their twenties—such as which one had a greater influence on her life and why. Once she's deep down that path, it's rather difficult for her to put the burden of conversation back on you.

Just out of interest...

-Marty

PS: also I assume you've read these—Breaking Rapport: You’ve Been Doing It Wrong and What to Do When Girls Act Superior, Rude, and Aloof

 

[Estate]

Marty,
Story telling was just one of many things mentioned. Its not to "impress" her, its to get the ball rolling and get someone to relax and open up and talk a little if they are non-responsive.

There's no magic bullet here... Its not like I can magically say "so tell me about your family" and BANG, the magic question, she won't shut up.. the topic of course came up and I maybe got 3 sentences out of her, 2 sisters, oldest child, etc. and that was as much as she'd say... Deep dive more? Wasn't having it... "Um", "yeah", "No" and the wonderful "I dunno.." were some of the words of wisdom shed follow any sort of open questions with, then let it die.

The point was I can keep putting the spotlight on someone only so many times with one word answers and silences after before I am just giving up on someone and writing them off as rude. I feel like cconstantly turning the spotlight on someone who is unresponsive anyway is just counter intuitive, you're almost begging for answers in the end asking question after question seeking approval of hitting "the right one" so she will respond, like a puppy begging for food, jumping on you from every direction.

If someone is unresponsive then at some point you either need to start talking, not in a boastful way but in a way that conveys "Well, I actually have something to say and showing up to a date an not even engaging is just making this awkward and bizarre"... this tends to get them invested just a little until you see the reset switch clicking almost as if they've already resolved not to participate and convey any sort of interest.

I'm just not getting it... if they were initially invested and began to back off through the date, I'd know I'm doing something to mess this up... but I' taking about right from the start... you sit down, they close up and you're just in a position where you are prying to get them to open up more, but they have already resolved not it. In some cases it has gone beyond not conveying interest to this one girl last night, literally being rude and obnoxious. Even if I find myself not quite as interested as I thought on a date, there's still the matter of well... "I don't have to be a jerk about it, I can still be pleasant to this person".

 

[Marty]

Estate:

I know this is a bit of a long shot, but how long elapsed between the day you opened her and the date itself?

Met a girl last week, seemed great, got her number, she was very enthusiastic on the phone, etc...

If it was more than a week, could she have been at a different point in her cycle by then? I ask because from what you've written, I can't seem to account for the sudden mood-change between the approach and the date.

Do you think there's any mileage in waiting until 4 weeks have passed since you opened her and got such an enthusiastic response, then reengaging her, on the grounds that she'll be roughly at the same point in her cycle as she was when she was displaying such positive emotions toward you?

Just a thought.

-Marty

 

[topcat]

Hey Estate,

I deff feel your frustration. I speculate that in a situation like this, one might want to throw her out of autopilot in some way. Challenge her adroitly without blatantly throwing her under the bus.

For instance where you mentioned that she was weirdly positioned on the chair so as to nearly fall off, I might question her there in a way that frames it as weird behaviour, and "jokingly" mention that she need not attempt to run away from you as you're not there to hurt her (basically frame it so that she realises she's being ridiculous, but be warm/cheeky at the same time). In her mind this might lead her to think "hey! i'm not running away..o wait i am haha silly me, why am i doing this?" and by being warm she has more of a reason to reciprocate to you to ease the embarassment.

If you're cold and do this however, I reckon she'll just fuck off and leave in disgust/embarassment/auto-rejection. Nothing's guaranteed as you know and if challenging her like this went south I'd just exit as you did.

Topcat