First Date Tactics and Logistics

Knight

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Pretty solid. Is there a reason for paying for both hers and your coffees? I'm used to having each other's orders paid separately.
 

The Tool

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@ Marty. Typically I felt the 2 hour mark is PERFECT. and i would send a simple text saying "Hey (name here) this is "The Tool" save my number ;)

pertaining to is she responded or not I found its a really good idicator of how much of an impression you made. I've found if you at least get someback back like "hi! OK I WILL!!" you will get a date 95% of the time. If you do not get a response back its pretty much a 10% chance you will get a date. But regardless if I get a text or not I would send a text saying "hey (name here) hope your days going well. Was thinking we should grab that coffee, whats your schedule look like this week?" Two days after I got her number.

As to if I care if I get a response or not. Nope I do not. Because its her loss that she doesnt get a night with me ;)

@Knight, I know there is a alot of argument about paying for both, paying for your own coffee, ect. I know that chase especially says that you should have her pay for her own. my thought process is, you know what....Its $3.50 for her coffee......Just fricking pay for it. dont be cheap. In the end it harms you more if she pays for hers because believe it or not some girls are so bitchy that they write you off if you do not pay for theres. (not something ive seen because ive always paid for theirs, but heard from friends and other P.U.A's it does happen) so I just take out my wallet and pay for both. No harm done.

Your not going to seem more dominate having her pay for her own. its not going to make her "more complient".. its going to have a miniscule effect on the whole interaction (and in my opinion more harm than good). So just pay for it lol

Cheers, The Tool
 

Marty

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T Vaunswa said:
you know what....Its $3.50 for her coffee......Just fricking pay for it. dont be cheap.
I cannot even express how strongly and fully I agree with this sentiment. Thanks Tool for stating it loud and clear.
 

Knight

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Marty said:
T Vaunswa said:
you know what....Its $3.50 for her coffee......Just fricking pay for it. dont be cheap.
I cannot even express how strongly and fully I agree with this sentiment. Thanks Tool for stating it loud and clear.
I think both ways can work. I prefer to buy separately and agree with Chase's thoughts. Although if the girl isn't demanding I do it because it's the norm and it's easier for me to pay for them both I'll do it - most of the time though the girl will protest to this and give me some money afterwards. I think that's okay. If a girl expects a man to pay for something she wants though that is when I have a problem. Thankfully I haven't met too many girls who do that to me though.

In all it just comes down to external factors and both can work well. It's just how you handle them.
 

The Byronic Man

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T Vaunswa said:
Inbetween all these questions you will eventualy get to a point where there is an awkward pause where you run out of things to say or you reach a point where you cant actively get onto another topic (always happens) thats when you say this line. (I'm using a sexual frame below to plant the seed for the sexual escalation later)

Look her in the eyes and give her a sexy smile. "Your a very interesting girl"
She will say "what do you mean"
you. "I mean your funny and your charming. But I feel theres more there that your afraid to show. But you shouldnt be. (said with a sexy smile)
Can you or someone explain what exactly this accomplishes? Is it just to qualify her in an intriguing way so she continues to chase you? Seems like it does much more than that, but I can't put a finger on it.

There's a scene in Casino Royale where James Bond tells Vesper Lynn the following:

"There's something that drives you...and I don't think I'll ever find out what that is."

Is that essentially the same thing?
 

PrettyDecent

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The Byronic Man said:
T Vaunswa said:
Inbetween all these questions you will eventualy get to a point where there is an awkward pause where you run out of things to say or you reach a point where you cant actively get onto another topic (always happens) thats when you say this line. (I'm using a sexual frame below to plant the seed for the sexual escalation later)

Look her in the eyes and give her a sexy smile. "Your a very interesting girl"
She will say "what do you mean"
you. "I mean your funny and your charming. But I feel theres more there that your afraid to show. But you shouldnt be. (said with a sexy smile)
Can you or someone explain what exactly this accomplishes? Is it just to qualify her in an intriguing way so she continues to chase you? Seems like it does much more than that, but I can't put a finger on it.

There's a scene in Casino Royale where James Bond tells Vesper Lynn the following:

"There's something that drives you...and I don't think I'll ever find out what that is."

Is that essentially the same thing?
Hmm, it could be. I haven't seen the movie, so I'm unsure the context. I, and I can't speak for the Tool here, would say that line is supposed to be interpreted as A.) He knows she's sexual (despite her intentions to hide it) and B.) Is encouraging her to be open with her sexuality since she knows he'll be receptive/nonjudgmental.. Its essentially a sexual chase frame...and very smart on Tool's part!

Jake
 

The Byronic Man

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I see. Need to use that next time!

How would you follow that up? I can see her opening up sexually...or it can create some awkwardness, in which case, I probably would change topics to something not sexual.
 

PrettyDecent

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Byronic,

Exactly, girls will never explicitly state their sexual interest in you. So you give her the knowing smile, then change topics a few more times before you invite her home. You're using this line to seed her sexual openness (as in, not give you LMR) for later; no immediate results come from it.

Jake
 

Marty

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PrettyDecent said:
I, and I can't speak for the Tool here, would say that line is supposed to be interpreted as A.) He knows she's sexual (despite her intentions to hide it) and B.) Is encouraging her to be open with her sexuality since she knows he'll be receptive/nonjudgmental.. Its essentially a sexual chase frame...
Jake, Byron:

Just to be clear, Tool took this line from Chase's article How to Be Playful: 4 Tips You'll NEED.
Chase said:
It might look like this:

Her: So THEN I told my friend I just can't have that dog at my place anymore. Done.

You: I bet your life's been a lot more peaceful and less messy since then.

Her: Yeah! [laughs]

You: [laughs]

Her: ...

You: ...

[staring into each other's eyes, no one saying anything]

Her: ...

You: ...

You: You're a very interesting girl.

Her: What do you mean?

You: I mean, you're funny, and you're charming, but I feel like there's more there that you're afraid to show. But you shouldn't be.

Now, what you follow the pause up with is INCREDIBLY important. Incredibly.

Why?

Because what you follow it up with is going to tell her if you're perfect lover material, or perfect boyfriend material.
 

Dern

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Ah... so you would follow up that quote looking into her eyes and giving her a knowing smile. Then depending on how she responds, you would probably just keep talking like nothing happened.
 

The Tool

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You guys solved it amongst your selves ;)
(thanks Marty for putting the link to the page) Yep as I stated in my (Been a year post) I did everything the book told me to do ;)

Jake got everything right. Its a way to be playful and set up a sexual frame in the interaction. Its especially important because it makes that "Awkward pause" unawkward. I've heard many stories of friends who go to the inevitable awkward pause and bombed it by stumbling around with their words and because they dont know what to do or say, they try to speedily go into another topic (usually one already covered) because they want to get out of said awkwardness. which then makes the conversation itself....awkward.

If you know what you are doing. And know what to say during the awkward pause you will be well off. You will set up a nice sexual frame. and be able to transition into more interesting banter and have the date transition smoothy.

Cheers, The Tool
 

The Byronic Man

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The Tool,

What if you have more than one awkward pause? If I feel like she isn't chasing me enough, I'd let her pick up the conversation as I give her the bored look. If she's really into me, I might pick up the conversation.
 

The Tool

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How I see it. If there is more than one awkward pause then you are not doing everything right. (first one is pretty much iminent) The first awkward pause ive found comes around the hour/ hour and a half mark. After which you should try to pull within the next half hour I never let a date go longer than 2 hours (as I stated in this post)

What ive found. If theres more than one awkward puase. You have yourself a boring girl you you cant connect with or is not that exciting, as in she doesnt have alot to talk about. These girls I'm not going to lie, never stimulated me enough to even want to pull them. The weak girls who were boring and didnt have alot goin on in there lives I would let the date end. And I would end it with a hug and never talk to them again.

But yes!!! IF YOU ARE BORED AND SHE IS NOT STIMULATING THE CONVERSATION ENOUGH!! definately give her the bored look and try to get here to chase you with information/ questions then put the questions back on her self. Key is to not look nervous when giving the bored look. You must genuinly look bored lol as you probibly will be
 

Marty

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Hey Tool,

This post is so good I keep revisiting it... I have another question related to it, if you don't mind!

What changes if any do you make to this process if you're just interested in a casual fling (if indeed you do that at all), rather than building a potential relationship? Do you really still do the deep-dive?

The reason I ask is that once I start asking about her aspirations and preferences and hopes and formative influences and whatnot, it tends to give off a subtext that I am seeking something serious. Is it better to skip the deep-dive if, for example, I just want to slam her and be done with it? In this case, what do you replace the deep-dive with, if anything?

Or are you better off putting on a show of wanting a relationship and then "changing your mind" after bedding her? Seems a difficult act to pull off.

Sorry for so many questions which you no doubt think are naive, I'm just starting out though and pretty confused, and could use your advice. Thank you.

-Marty
 

The Tool

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Hey Tool,

This post is so good I keep revisiting it... I have another question related to it, if you don't mind!
Thanks man. And yea I'll answere any questions happily.

For the deep diving if all you want is a quick fling.
Continue the deep diving and getting to know all the aspirtations and what not.
If you have set the proper frame before and during the date. (through sexual frames, Chase Frames ect. and by Moving fast as this site promotes then you should have no problem bedding girls using this technique.

Remember you are learning more about her. She is not learning alot about you. So therefore She really has no reason to try and slot you into the (boyfriend) category whould makes escalting slightly more difficult.

The Deep Dive is for forming a connection so the date has a smooth transition in all aspects, from the date, to pulling, to getting to your place, to escalting to the desired results. the more connected she feels to you. The better your chances of success. But Like I said. FRAMING IS EVEYTHING

Sorry for so many questions which you no doubt think are naive, I'm just starting out though and pretty confused, and could use your advice. Thank you.
Its all good bro, I dont think they are Naive in the slightest. Its best to get all the information you can. betters your learning curve ;)

Cheers, The Tool
 

Marty

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T Vaunswa said:
Its best to get all the information you can. betters your learning curve ;)
Thanks Tool for your incredibly quick response.

It's very useful to clarify; it's kinda counterintuitive (for me at least) that she would actually want to form a connection, if she knows all she is getting out of it is a sexual dalliance, so it's extremely important to have this spelled out. Thank you.
 

Estate

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Marty said:
T Vaunswa said:
Its best to get all the information you can. betters your learning curve ;)
Thanks Tool for your incredibly quick response.

It's very useful to clarify; it's kinda counterintuitive (for me at least) that she would actually want to form a connection, if she knows all she is getting out of it is a sexual dalliance, so it's extremely important to have this spelled out. Thank you.
Marty,
Judging from this and a few other posts I just wanted to point out one thing. If you are setting something up to be a relationship or just casual, it's not something you verbally communicate.
Even if you are setting up for a casual relationship, girls still want to feel a connection. They don't want to just feel cheap and like you are only looking for sex from them. They want to feel excitement and like they are the prize.

If you verbally communicate that you want something casual, I'm not saying it strikes you out but it limits your options. Some girls will be totally ok with it. But I find it's usually in a night-time setting where girls are out, partying, drinking and totally ok with hooking up. On a date, you're already subcommunicating that you want to "date" this girl rather than having taken her home when you met. So you would now be changing the dynamic. Don't get me wrong, you can certainly do it, I have done it but it's very situational. You can't force it.

I think this comes from a lot of the old-school PUA stuff... basically, guys used to advocate "cavemanning". I don't know how else to describe it in short other than taking a girl on a date but right from the start you are a little dick-ish and really only communicate that you are looking for sex. Again, I'm not saying it can't work but I feel it very much depends on who the girl is and what you know she is down for.

What I learned from Chase's writing is that it's all about your vibe. What sort of persona you give off. Take the girl on the date, but you want to act as though you know women, you know what excites them and what turns them on, and you are an in-demand guy. Deep-diving and getting to know her deeply doesn't communicate a relationship right from the get-go. It communicates that you understand women and know how to create some sort of emotional connection. Without this, girls don't want to sleep with you. Even if she sleeps with you that night, she wants to feel justified in doing so and she will only feel justified if she feels like she felt some connection to you.

It does sound counter-intuitive... but if you keep the conversation very light, it's pretty much what any other guys does "What do you do? What do you like? What music do you listen to..." and in doing so you are setting yourself up as any other regular guy who wants to date her... from there, this doesn't lead to the type of excitement where she wants to have you, it leads her to a decision as to whether you are worth seeing again to head towards really dating.

Chase has some articles about creating a sexy vibe, it's really in the undertones, reading between the lines so she see's that you're the sort of guy who she feels that connection to and needs to see again but at the same time, she feels like you're not the sort of guy to spend weeks/months going on nice dinners and movie trips without sex... she'll lose you. I feel like it's really not about verbally communicating your intentions but rather sub-communicating them.
 

Marty

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Estate:

Thanks for taking the time to go into such illuminating detail on something that was not at all obvious to me.

Estate said:
she see's that you're the sort of guy who she feels that connection to and needs to see again but at the same time, she feels like you're not the sort of guy to spend weeks/months going on nice dinners and movie trips without sex... she'll lose you
This is the core of your argument and it is an extremely intelligent analysis and one which I will be able to commit to memory easily. It's essentially yet another example of Moving Fast and thus creating scarcity... and demand.

Just as Chase always says, the stuff that is not taught in school is what people actually need the most. The more natural aptitude you have for a subject, the less you in fact need it rammed down your throat from an early age. Most academic subjects come to me naturally enough... frankly, I could have picked them up to a halfway decent level in my spare time. The content addressed in this site, plus business acumen, is where I really needed instruction! But that's by-the-by :)

-Marty
 
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