[First time poster] Seeking advice on how to escalate in date tomorrow?

[throwaway890]

Hello gentlemen,

I just discovered this site about 5 days ago and have proceeded to burn through 25+ articles since. What a fucking eye opener... My first day or two I couldn't help but think "How could I have been doing it so wrong for all my life! It's all so much easier than I thought!"... The last day or two though I've started seeing that I have been doing a number of things right already on my own, but man do I have a hell of a lot of room for improvement.

I stumbled upon the site following a first date with a great girl one week ago (can't remember what I was searching for). Tomorrow we meet for a daytime date (her idea was to drive about an hour outside of town and have some dessert in a nice spot; after solidifying our date she later wrote that in the evening her friends are going to see a play and she invited me to join them). So I know I am not going to change overnight or learn to do a bunch of things better between today and tomorrow, but I would love to hear some advice on my situation and maybe a couple key things I should focus on to better my odds with her tomorrow. Huge thanks in advance for any help.

Quickly a bit about me. I really would feel disgusting if a girl ever thought I was only talking to her for sex and I think this has led me (as with probably lots of guys in the modern age) to go to too far an extreme in being totally asexual, doing hardly any sexual framing. I rarely can stay single for long, but it tends to be the girls that pick me and not the other way around. For the first time in my life I am starting to hope that I can change that and go for a girl I really WANT from the outset. On to the girl in question...

First date we met for coffee and chatted for about two hours. Went for a walk for an hour, had a 3 hour dinner, then I drove her home (another 1-2 hour chat, we took our time and got stopped by the cops which was hilarious). Felt really natural and went just about perfect as far as a first date goes (or how I used to think a first date ought go). She did most of the talking and we really connected. I am traveling through and plan was to leave next day so we both said would be great to meet up when I get back here in a couple weeks. Next day though I told her I could stay one more day if she wanted to meet. She said absolutely and that she was free the next day. But then late that evening she got a call for a job interview the next day, followed by exam, that would take basically until the evening (when I was busy) so we missed our chance and I continued on traveling. Of course I was very disappointed and probably let her see this too much through my messages... I generally was easy-going about the fact that she cancelled though and said it wasn't a problem, that we'd have more time.

Anyway some things I think I did alright with in the first date:
- Deep diving: She told me all about her last relationship and family. About her biggest aspirations and fears and worries at this stage in her life. Her employment, where she wants to take it.
- Balance of conversation: It was 90% her talking, and I was able to keep her going. I shared enough about myself to connect but the natural flow of the conversation made it much more about her opening up than me.
- Building her up: This was probably the high point of the conversation for me. She shared what she's most worried/fearful about in life, and I shot her down telling her this is ridiculous, and told her reasons (based on what she told me about herself) why I think she will undoubtedly overcome her fear and be very successful. After saying this her response showed that I had really gotten through to her, that she appreciated what I said but most importantly really believed it. She looked like she felt on top of the world. This was obviously fantastic...
- Touching: Latter part of date did a bit of the arm tapping, the hand on the back while crossing the street, kiss on cheek and hug at end of night. I realize I should have done a lot more though.
- A bit of flirtation via text since then (talking about hugging and other stupid shit)
- NOT texting her too much since the date (letting some days pass and waiting for her to initiate)

Some things I probably fucked up on:
- Zero sexual framing
- Moving way too slow, just chatting and not looking for opportunities to escalate
- Not making myself intriguing enough, giving her things to wonder about
- Not setting myself out as potentially challenging
- CHASING: This is the worst I imagine. I’ve definitely communicated that I had such a great time and really want to see her again. I told her I was sad that our second date was cancelled before I left. I also basically told her my schedule is (almost totally) open and just to tell me a day she’s available for our second date (tomorrow), showing her how much I’m after her and willing to bend to her availability…

I am sure there’s more I did wrong beyond the above. Since the date she’s friendly via text, but also aloof. Sometimes she takes ages to respond (even though I see she’s online messaging other people). She’s one of these people that only asks questions, and doesn’t respond to anything I ask (funny as she was the opposite in person). I don’t know if I’m already slotting myself into friendzone or maybe she’s just not interested, but there also could be absolutely nothing to read into this. I’m not thinking about it too much and trying to just focus on being 100% sure to try and ESCALATE things in the second date tomorrow.

I think my natural strengths and weaknesses GENERALLY with ANY GIRL are displayed pretty accurately in the above things I self-assess myself as having done well or shitty on. So I’m just wondering if you guys might have any advice for me? What are a couple things I should be damn sure to do to try and give this girl the right message and maximize my chances of moving things in the direction I want them to go?

Huge thanks in advance guys.

 

[throwaway890]

Sorry if my post was too long or just crap... I don't know if anyone is interested in weighing in but if so, I could really use some advice.

UPDATE after second date:

Went fantastic by my standards of dates, but terrible by how Girls Chase posts would define it. We spent about 10 hours together and connected even deeper than before. Seriously fucking like this girl. Time together feels really natural and easy and we totally get each other. But still not even a kiss. I did my best to escalate the touching, did sexual framing I think 2 times during the whole date. I was so nervous to do it and waited for a time that it linked somewhat naturally to our conversation and I have to say I was amazed by how fucking EASY it was. It was unbelievable how it went EXACTLY as described in Chase's and others' posts on here. She just totally took the bait and was so on board with it and we stayed on the topic for a surprisingly long time and it let me share a lot of my thoughts, let me hear a lot of hers, and I was able really easily slide in a few things talking about ME and sex (loving it, being GOOD at it, thinking it's not such a big deal, about not being judgmental, etc.) so at least I got that much in her mind...

But yeah, beyond just hugging more, holding her a bit, quite regular touches on the arm/leg to make emphasis, and just getting generally "in her space" a lot more, not much more escalated and there just never was a chance to kiss (in retrospect, I probably should have just done what I usually do and plowed through the awkwardness just saying "damn I'd really like to kiss you right now, too bad X so it's not the best time..." in a lighthearted way).

She was really bummed that her friends' plan panned in the end as she said she really wanted me to meet them, though it was great that we had more time to talk. She did start talking me in detail about a few of the people she's closest to. It felt kind of like "I want you to know about these people because you are going to meet them" so that's good I guess. And they are going out drinking tonight and she asked me if I wanted to join (I probably will, and this will be my last chance to see her for several weeks so I am DESPERATE to at least get a kiss in, but it will be tough around her friends and she won't be able to drink).

So I've definitely NOT presented myself as a "lover" and I think I am either heading down the "potential boyfriend" or "friend zone" categories. More than likely she's undecided which she sees me as and is still sort of waiting to see how I present myself. So I think I have a chance but I need to stop dicking around, but I don't know how to escalate without it feeling unnatural and forced. She does all the talking and it's hard to lead the interaction because I actually LIKE the way it is going (I guess it's just that it's the type of pre-romantic interaction I am used to so I am in my comfort zone and don't know how to push beyond it).

Sorry I write so fucking much. If anyone wouldn't mind to weigh in though, I'd so much appreciate it...

 

[Drck]

Hey Throwaway, since nobody contributed yet I'm going to throw my two cents in.

1. Don't get overwhelmed by GC. There is plenty of great material for the next 5 years, don't try to do everything at once, you will over-game her. Keep it simple, natural, keep doing what you are doing...

2. Patience. There were or still are great vibes, which is good. She may however pull back, stop responding to you, she may go totally cold, not show up for next date... Don't over-react to it, it might be a test, she is simply observing your reactions, trying to see if you are a man enough to handle the emotions... Keep cool, keep back, don't bombard her with texts and calls, don't call her friends and ask about her...

Today you may be in seventh heaven, two days from now you may call the day the most miserable day of your life... If something like that happen don't react, keep it cool, keep calm, it's a standard test...

3. Stop seducing her, stop framing her, stop thinking about lovers and friend zones, stop thinking about being desperate or not, stop all the other stuff. She is already seduced, she is already framed, she is already attracted to you a lot. She already went out with you and spent many hours with you, that is all you need to know.

...You have to get more physical otherwise you will lose her to another guy. There is no other way. Focus on (1) good vibes, (2) keep calm and relaxed, and (3) getting more physical. Nothing else matters, forget everything else

* Get physical little bit, pull back as she will most likely push you away anyway
* Get physical again, see how far she lets you, pull back
* Get more physical, see how far she lets you
* Did I mention to get physical?
It should feel natural exactly the same way as you talk to her...

You have no other choice, if you hesitate too long she will drop you and will go out with a guy who won't hesitate...

Good Luck

 

[throwaway890]

Hi Drck,

Thanks so much for your response! It's really appreciated. I feel a lot more relaxed and confident after reading what you wrote. I think I'm already doing the right things just maybe moving a bit slow. No harm in being a little bit more obvious and pushier and like you say, if I see her resist I can back off and maintain a pace she's comfortable with, but I haven't by any means pushed things yet so that's what I ought start doing...

And yes, the one thing that drives me absolutely crazy is her lack of responsiveness. It's amazing how much we command each others' attention when we are together. She's really polite about almost never using her phone when we're together. Yet she is totally unresponsive when we're not! I sent a really sweet text that she flout out didn't even acknowledge. She is SO slow to respond and again, any question I ask she ignores, and she just then asks me questions. I'm trying not to read too much into it. I can tell she's one of these bubbly super social girls with a million friends (her phone is always exploding), and her close group of friends (which is quite big) I know she is VERY close to (I'm excited to meet them tonight). So I am trying to logically convince myself it doesn't matter, but it is hard not to be bummed that there is less coming from her, and less of a reaction to what I send. I totally see what you mean that I need to relax and not text her so much (when she's not responsive, I just leave it, so hopefully I haven't been too pushy).

What you write about physicality is especially good advice. It's just something I've never been good at. Girls usually make the first move with me or else I just let things drag on for way too long and then I have to be really blunt and just basically ask them if physicality is okay in order to break that awkwardness and move things forward. I'll hopefully find a way to push it in a non-awkward way tonight...

Thanks again for your response. Really helpful stuff.

 

[Skippy]

Hi throwaway, welcome to the boards!

The main thing which stands out to me from reading your posts is that you didn't try and invite her back to your place. It might feel a bit audacious, but you want to always try getting her back to your place somehow, even if it's just the first date.

Here's a date suggestion. I'm going to pretty much give you a step by step process because I sense you're new at this and you remind me of when I was first posting on the boards This is how I first used to run dates and it's worked pretty well for me but keep in mind that this is by no means the only way and it takes some trial and error to see what works best for you(I'm also still learning!). Also you learn to be much more flexible as you get experience. So here it is...

Next time if you get a chance to go on a date with her, tell her you have something fun planned for dinner, but tell her it's a surprise. and then take her to a supermarket where you guys will buy ingredients to to cook with back at your place.

(I don't know your logistics so let me know if this is not feasible for you but hopefully you live close by to some grocery store)

while you guys are shopping, your physical escalation can be minimal. just some incidental contact by her arm or shoulders is fine.

While you guys are cooking dinner, feel free to escalate more. Then while you're talking and eating you can seed the idea of throwing on a movie. Go to your bed and sit close to each other while watching the movie. Put your arm around her. Then after some time, gradually start caressing her arm, hands, or wrists. When you guys are holding hands, and she's into it, lean over and kiss her neck or you can just kiss her lips. start making out with her and if she's enjoying it, shut the damn laptop and escalate to sex, or you can be a gentleman and wait for the movie to finish. But I guarantee, she probably doesn't care so much.

If at any point she's uncomfortable with your escalation, don't freak out, act calm. Just take a step back and try again once you've built more comfort. Another thing I want to point out is don't verbalize wanting to kiss her, it'll make things awkward. If you're afraid of her rejecting your attempt you can do baby steps like kissing her neck and earlobes first and see how she reacts to that(you guys are sitting close to each other so this is much easier).

Hope it works out with this girl, but even if it doesn't, don't worry you'll get plenty of opportunities to practice with future girls.

 

[throwaway890]

ShualGe - thanks so much for your response!

Unfortunately our 3rd date fell through (I actually had another one fall in my lap to replace it funnily enough) and I left town so won't see her for another two weeks. I'm holding off messaging her more than once ever other day or so to not push things too hard... Will see where things are at when I get back.

Also unfortunately I don't have a place in her town so there wasn't really anywhere to invite her back to ... I need to get a move on her while we are out and about and an appropriate moment never really felt like it arrived. Physical escalation is just something that never has felt natural to me, so the detailed way that you described it is really helpful. Many thanks!