Fixing my direct opening and conversation?

[Humay]

I just wanted to thank you guys for all your help. I can really see myself improve by the day which is so encouraging.

I'm damn good at the indirect/situational opener, and i can really get some great conversations going with it. (I was talking to a gorgeous polish woman today on the London underground train. The men that were sitting around us were clearly jealous!).

But when i was about to approach a pretty woman on the street (which therefore requires a direct opening) i just couldn't do it.

The direct opener just doesn't make sense to me. If i approach a woman saying that she's really beautiful, then what value do i have? I have just made the effort to walk to her, stop her from her busy life and compliment her on something she's probably heard a million billion times in her life, which will not persuade her to drop her busy plans for me. Not only does this not make me look like anything special, but i'm at her mercy and she will know it. She controls me through her beauty (i have made said effort because of it) and she now controls the conversation (she's got the options whether to continue the conversation or ignore me. I don't have any choice, i can only accept whatever decision she makes).

What especially concerned me however is that 99% of the women i see aren't THAT pretty. There are many attractive ones, but barely any who i would drop my busy day and plans for (as a man with value would have) and take my time to walk up to. They know it, I know it, and they can tell that i know it. And so my direct opening just comes off as fake. I can't hide insincerity from a woman.

The same also applies if i said to a woman 'i'm so impressed by your fashion/style, i just had to say hi' (or something similar). She will have to wear something *amazing* for me to say that. But because it's summer, most girls are just wearing a skirt and blouse or something simple and comfortable. Even if it wasn't summer, how many times have you genuinely been amazed by a woman's fashion/earrings/accessories? I never have and i wouldn't want to start any relationship on a lie.

What i need is a *sincere* direct opening that will not only display that i have value, but will convince her to stick around and believe that i'm genuinely attracted to her (So she thinks i'm taking time out of my important day to talk to her because she's that special). Can anyone help?

 

[Richard]

Humay! Congrats on the progress you've been making, it's always reassuring to see another's progress. That being said, I think it's about time for you to progress even more by working on your direct opener which is alot less intimidating and foreboding than you may think =) The direct opener is an essential tool you need to pick up a broader array of women, it's just another thing you should have in your arsenal.

To me, Chase is a very respectable teacher with a reputation and the experience to show for it, and because of that, I feel like some people hold on much too strongly to some things that he says, and some others are too afraid to take his teachings and tweak them to benefit themselves. Bruce Lee got to be a great martial artist by learning all he could and incorporating what worked for him specifically. I take the same approach in learning to pick up women, and weigh out what I've learned to see whether it benefits me or not, and the direct opener surely does.

In reality, most beautiful women don't receive too many compliments because most men hold the mentality that she is beautiful and thus, must be taken, must not be single, and thus, not approach her and give her a compliment. The majority of beautiful women on the street haven't had a load of men compliment them upon first view, and are usually very flattered and enticed by the man who has enough courage to actually go up to her and talk to her, after all, she's a person, same as you and me, and as a person, we all crave the feeling of importance.

Upon a direct approach, I do agree with you, that you start by chasing her, and I maintain the idea that when you actively start a conversation with any woman with given intentions in your head, you are chasing her! Brush that BULLSHIT off to the side though, this what I meant by holding on too strongly to Chase's teachings, yes, you start the conversation as the chaser (and being the pursuer is something Chase heavily advises against), but! after opening her up, you freely control the flow of the conversation making her Chase you. Yes, you approach her because of her beauty, but does she know that? NO! Most women don't assume men talk to them for their looks, maybe as a fellow human being not entirely concerned with his own life, you decided to talk about her out of genuine interest.
Again, logically speaking, it would seem as if she had control of the conversation after your opening, that, she has the option to continue talking to you or not. This is not entirely true, upon being complimented and opening her up, as I stated previously, she is more than likely to be flattered and more than happy to continue talking to you. If she does not, if she is a total bitch who can't spare the time, then she's not worth your time anyway. What person (logically speaking) is going to turn down a conversation with someone who just gave them a reason to feel important, or gave them a reason to feel appreciated.
For you, Humay, if you have the time, I recommend you check out this book: "How To Win Friends and Influence People," by Dale Carnegie, you can find the PDF eBook verison on google for a free download. This book will change your entire mentality on talking to people in general, and it explains the psychology of human interaction in situations like this. Direct openers are a wonderful thing, and are nothing to shy away from man.
-Enjoy yourself Humay,
Richard

 

[Humay]

Thanks a lot Richard. I couldn't reply sooner as i'm getting ready to go travelling. I've just downloaded that ebook and will read it as soon as i get on the plane. I understand what you're saying; being a chaser for a few seconds is acceptable when afterward you'll control the conversation. Good to know

 

[Richard]

Exactly Humay, enjoy your trip, and enjoy your future with women =)

 

[ramirezs316]

The same also applies if i said to a woman 'i'm so impressed by your fashion/style, i just had to say hi' (or something similar). She will have to wear something *amazing* for me to say that. But because it's summer, most girls are just wearing a skirt and blouse or something simple and comfortable. Even if it wasn't summer, how many times have you genuinely been amazed by a woman's fashion/earrings/accessories? I never have and i wouldn't want to start any relationship on a lie.

I've had this problem too--trying to be sincere about what a woman is wearing. Being a fledgling photographer, I think I found a way around it. If her style is too generic, then get more specific. Complement her on the color of her clothes, how they go well with her skin tone or her hair color, or even her accessories. Women wear a lot of bright colors during summer, but they also experiment more than other times of the year. Just be careful that you don't seem too invested with what she is wearing rather than how she is pulling it off. You want to come off like a cultured man who pays attention to detail and not a guy who is just into fashion. I hope that helps.

 

[josephjo]

I just wanted to thank you guys for all your help. I can really see myself improve by the day which is so encouraging.

I'm damn good at the indirect/situational opener, and i can really get some great conversations going with it. (I was talking to a gorgeous polish woman today on the London underground train. The men that were sitting around us were clearly jealous!).

But when i was about to approach a pretty woman on the street (which therefore requires a direct opening) i just couldn't do it.

The direct opener just doesn't make sense to me. If i approach a woman saying that she's really beautiful, then what value do i have? I have just made the effort to walk to her, stop her from her busy life and compliment her on something she's probably heard a million billion times in her life, which will not persuade her to drop her busy plans for me. Not only does this not make me look like anything special, but i'm at her mercy and she will know it. She controls me through her beauty (i have made said effort because of it) and she now controls the conversation (she's got the options whether to continue the conversation or ignore me. I don't have any choice, i can only accept whatever decision she makes).

What especially concerned me however is that 99% of the women i see aren't THAT pretty. There are many attractive ones, but barely any who i would drop my busy day and plans for (as a man with value would have) and take my time to walk up to. They know it, I know it, and they can tell that i know it. And so my direct opening just comes off as fake. I can't hide insincerity from a woman.

The same also applies if i said to a woman 'i'm so impressed by your fashion/style, i just had to say hi' (or something similar). She will have to wear something *amazing* for me to say that. But because it's summer, most girls are just wearing a skirt and blouse or something simple and comfortable. Even if it wasn't summer, how many times have you genuinely been amazed by a woman's fashion/earrings/accessories? I never have and i wouldn't want to start any relationship on a lie.

What i need is a *sincere* direct opening that will not only display that i have value, but will convince her to stick around and believe that i'm genuinely attracted to her (So she thinks i'm taking time out of my important day to talk to her because she's that special). Can anyone help?

I see this complaint a few times that opening a girl with a compliment puts you in the chasing position but I agree with Richard in that you are chasing (very little) then you are immediately getting investment from the girl (her time or locking her in). I honestly never had this mindset about chasing the girl in this regard because of how confidently I now approach women. When you have an IDGAF (I don't give a fuck) attitude to whether she stays to chat with you or run away, it makes her want to chase you. I wouldn't worry much about being direct in regards to chasing unless your whole interactions are you feeding her compliments that would be the only time I would see a problem.

As for being genuine, you can use a different opener than using "beautiful" (I haven't got too many good results off of words such as beautiful or gorgeous) instead use cute or adorable, they are less commonly used by men and they are more "honest" in your interests. To sound genuine, you already are if you think a girl is cute, its why you talked to her in the first place. Unless you are winging, machine gunning, or talking to fatties (I wouldn't understand why, unless you love more cushion for the pushing) then you wouldn't be lying and it would be how you feel. Almost 95% of my approaches are the same and it goes like this "Hi, I know this is a bit random but.... you are very cute and I HAVE to come meet you" blah blah blah. With this "stock" opener I have number closed tons of girls and gotten dates off this opener. The key here is nonverbals, it matters not what you say but how you say it. I've opened girls by saying "Hi, I am a huge gamer nerd. I'm Jo". Then continued to have regular conversations with women. The key is coming off as an confident guy and it really doesn't matter what you say.