fog talks about women

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Some Crazy Things I Learned

The past few days in Toronto were amazing. I was there solely for a job interview and to meet up with my future roommates to try to find a place to live, but I learned a lot about girls in the process.

I was at the bus station. I had just gotten into Toronto, and was standing near some seats. I was looking at google maps...then I looked up and I noticed an older lady sitting down really close to me. She was not looking at me. Her body was kinda turned towards me though, and her feet were definitely pointing at me. Hmmm? Approach invitation? I wasn't sure. But we all know that people point their feet towards wherever their attention truly is. During the rest of the trip, I was getting similar approach invitations from other older ladies. They would come hover near me, and point their feet directly at me, but they wouldn't be looking at me. I wonder if these instances were related...like is this a common way for older ladies to do their approach invitations? I don't believe I get the hover with feet pointing towards me from younger girls.

Next day, I was headed to my job interview. I was dressed up, quite fashionably too. It was a very long commute on the subway. On my way there, a few girls gave me looks of disgust. What the heck? BUT, I was getting approach invitations from 7s and 8s, which was mind blowing to me. Girls of this quality in my current city (which is way smaller than Toronto) would not give me any attention at all, even if I was wearing the same clothing. This really got me thinking about the importance of the environment. Is my sexual market value higher in Toronto? Are the girls just different in Toronto? Or, maybe perhaps, girls have a greater sense of their market value there, because there are soooo many ridiculously high value people in the city. I don't know...

Ahh, so I got to my job interview. The girl who was interviewing me, would be my boss if I got the job. There was quite a bit of sexual tension between me and her. She was giving me that knowing look and smile. If I get the job, I could definitely attribute it to the fact that she's attracted to me.

The day after that, I met up with my future roommates. I talked about one of them in my last post (the hot blonde). I'm going to call her Purple from now on. She brought the other person we're going to be living with, a guy named Chad. He looks like a stereotypical douchebag. He's jacked and he's really good looking. I learned something from watching him talk with Purple that will help me put together another piece of the puzzle in terms of developing my sexual vibe. I noticed he was using a lot of downtones in his voice, which made it quite sexual. But whenever he laughed, he also ended his laugh on a downtone - which made the laugh sexual and intimate. This was crazy to me. I never thought to think about whether my laugh was attractive or not. Guess I'll be practising my laugh the next few days...

Purple drove me home from Toronto, and along the way we stopped at a strip mall to get some food. We were in some burrito place (Chad was somewhere else getting food), and the girl cashier would not stop looking at me. Approach invitations from girls were quite amplified when I was with Purple. But that wasn't the interesting part. The interesting part was the facial expression of the girl cashier. She was giving me this apprehensive/remorseful/regretful look. I didn't think anything of it until a few minutes later..

Me and Purple met back up with Chad, and we're standing on the sidewalk. I looked through the window of a restaurant, and noticed an average looking girl giving Chad mad approach invitations. Just wouldn't stop looking at him. The look on her face? The EXACT same apprehensive/remorseful/regretful look that the girl cashier was giving me just two minutes earlier. It's apparent to me that this facial expression signals that a girl perceives whoever she's looking at to be above her league. I will use this knowledge in my future strategy...it is important to know how a girl is feeling before I approach her.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Fashion News

I’ve put together one outfit that is really killer. It consists of shiny black cap toe dress shoes, black socks, blue skinny jeans, a bright pink and purple striped tshirt, and a colorblocked leather bomber jacket.

The other day when I was wearing it, this old drunk lady came up to me and said I looked like a hockey player. I thought this was good news, because I probably look like a douchebag - while still retaining my vintage style.

The initial results seem to be pretty good. When I wear this, I get checked out more than ever before from both sexes. Whewww!!! I am thinking that the bomber jacket makes me look jacked as fuck, especially when paired with skinny jeans.

Speaking of Drunk Older Ladies…

Last night, a short 90 year old lady WITH NO TEETH offered to take me on a date and give me “something nice” for $5.

Unrelated but still funny: I was eating at a restaurant. A girl a few tables over was sneaking looks at me. Then she tilted her head back and dropped a LOOOONG ass piece of spaghetti slowly into her mouth. Then right after, she snuck another glance at me. I laughed pretty hard after that one.

Speaking of Shorter Girls…

I feel more dominant around short girls….like I feel like I’m able to impose myself on them easier. It’s not too often that I see a girl who’s shorter than me. But next time I see a short girl, I wanna analyze this mindset so I can apply it to taller girls/girls who are the same height.

I Lost a Challenge

The other day I was at the bus station, and I made eye contact with this girl. 15, 20 seconds goes by and we're still staring at each other. I have bad vision, and in my mind I was like, "WTF? IS THIS GIRL ACTUALLY LOOKING AT ME FOR THIS LONG? THIS NEVER HAPPENS for THIS long! what if she's not actually looking at me and she's just looking at something past my head? Oh my god, I should stop looking so I don't look like a creep." I broke eye contact, and rolled my eyes. I lost against her challenge. I haven't lost a challenge in ages! And yes afterwards I realized she definitely was looking at me because she kept giving me looks occasionally, and I even got a strong physical reaction out of her when i had to walk by her to get on the bus. I could see it out of the corner of my eye, her body got all startled.

Couple Mentality

The other day Chase wrote an article about the effect of group herding mindsets on dating and seduction. One thing that really stuck out to me was "couple mentality." It gave me further understanding into how to develop a relationship/connection with a girl and how to execute an "us vs. the world" sort of vibe. It's not really an "us vs. the world" thing. It's more like...we are in this together, making decisions as a unit.

In terms of compliance, successful compliance commands decrease attainability. Why? Hector doesn't mention in his article...but I think it might have to do with the fact that you're not including her in the decision. Now...on the other hand, successful compliance suggestions increase attainability - because you're including her in the decision. Compliance suggestions are great for developing a couple mentality and an overall connection I think. This is a new thought in my head, I'll continue to explore it.

Some Flirty Stuff

If a girl doesn’t hear you, or you said something raunchy, she might say what? And if she says what, then I’ll just turn it into more flirting. EXAMPLE:

Girl: What
Fog: What, WHAT?
Girl: Huh?
Fog: Your HUH hurts when I do WHAT? ;)
Success is Not a Mystery

The better i get, the more i understand WHY people have success. I can pick apart why they are so good with girls. For example, one of my best friends is great with girls…but I could never figure out why. Well I realized he’s really good at building relationships with girls. He's a slow burner kinda guy.

How To Be a Provider 101

To me it is so clear when girls are looking for a boyfriend. And it’s clear to me when they are inexperienced. And it's clear to me when they're quite sexual. I have to read up on girls with low lay counts, but I’m pretty sure that girls who are inexperienced equate sex with love. So inexperienced girls are probably more likely to be looking for a provider too.

One thing I’ve realized is that when girls are looking for a provider, you can’t get away with ignoring them. If you ignore them for a few days, they’ll get mad and auto reject. Providers do not ignore. So I made a slight change to the way I communicate with these girls. I’ve met a lot of them through tinder. I’ll make plans with them, then I’ll TELL THEM when I’ll text them next, and let them know I’m busy, so they don’t think I’m ignoring them or anything.

I met up in person with this one girl from tinder. Very clearly inexperienced, and very clearly looking for a boyfriend. My plan was to go to her house. Except she got off work late. By the time she was free to hang out, it was like 9PM and she still had to walk her dog. So I went on a walk with her and her dog, assuming we would go to her house afterwards.

When we met up, I was quite a bit shorter than her. I saw some sort of look of disapproval flash across her face. Well guess what? Instead of me going to her house, she sent me home cuz she had to do more work. Her having to work more was honest (I think). She kept getting phone calls from her boss while we were walking the dog, and she said he had to drop off a document to her.

We didn’t click, but we didn’t not click either. I haven’t heard back from her, and under the assumption that she’s looking for a boyfriend, i can say that I did not fit her qualifications for a provider. I bet she disqualified me based on my height.

Here were her emotions throughout:

- Little bit closed off (when we first met up)
- Excited and enthusiastic (after a few minutes of talking)
- Nervous (When I was leaving)

Why would she be nervous when I was leaving…? Maybe she was expecting a kiss or something, lol.

Using a Bored Tone of Voice

Recently on the phone with a tinder girl who lives outta town:

girl: you sound really condescending. like youre above everything.
me: what do you mean? do i sound really bored?
girl: yes.
I was drawling, not being very excited, using downtones, but really prolonging the vowel sounds.

Random Notes

- Sarcasm: How does it impact attainability?
- Sensed I was in the area, and decided to give me a deliberate look vs. Just scanning the environment and happened to notice me.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

I remember several weeks ago when I started working on building more and higher quality connections with girls. I was so excited. Of course like any emotion, this excitement faded a bit as I practiced......but I incorporated some new connection-building techniques into my game last night that have me quite excited again. It involves mirroring.

Verbal Mirroring

I have started using trance words in my active listening. I am also mimicking the vocal tones girls are using.

At the gym today, I was talking with one of the girls who works the front desk. Over the past little while we have become pretty close - it started around the same I started working on connection building. Anyways, I would reply to her using the same vocal tones she used. I don't think she noticed. Would she have called me out on it if she did? Probably not....to her it probably just seems like we are just both similar! Honestly, it felt like a game to me. I was having a lot of fun talking to her....either because A) copying her like this is insane or B) her vocal tones are spontaneous and unpredictable, so when I started using these vocal tones, I got in the same sort of mood. This is powerful stuff.

Non-Verbal Mirroring

I have started mirroring the movements and gestures of girls. I would also like to mirror their breathing patterns, but this isn't as easy...

One thing I need to think about: if the girl displays poor body language, should I mimic that?

Mental/Emotional State Mirroring

Otherwise known as pacing, I guess. Basically, showing her that you understand her reality, and communicating that you’re in the same place as her emotionally. Haven't done it yet but I'll try it out tomorrow.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Sometimes I'll open a girl indirectly, and she'll respond well, but she'll start walking away slowly while still talking to me. She consciously doesn't realize that I'm trying to have a conversation with her and not just some 2 second friendly small talk as strangers pass each other on the street. I know this because I've done the exact same thing before.

I never had a solid strategy for overcoming this situation. Thinking back to the past, I would keep talking to them as they were walking away, so they would feel social pressure and stop. But today I think I came up with a better way.

At my college there is a hallway split up into three narrow lanes by handrails. I hope whoever designed this hallway was fired. Anyways, I was walking down the hallway in one lane, and there was this girl walking towards me in another lane. I opened her. We had a little chat, but she was not too engaged; partly due to the fact that my opener flopped. She started drifting away, and I randomly pulled out a tension lock:

fog: hey i just realized something about you
girl: what's that?
fog: you really care about people
At this point, she walks back towards me, is pretty hooked and starts pelting me with questions, wondering if I'm a psychic.

BUT, as I mentioned we were each in a narrow lane, and there were groups of students passing by us. She would keep turning her head to look at these students, to make sure she wasn't getting in the way. It prevented me from developing any sort of vibe with her, because she couldn't fully focus on the conversation.

This would have been a great opportunity to do some pacing, then transition into a compliance suggestion. For example:

fog: i know its sorta awkward that we almost keep getting run over, we should move somewhere over there.
I did NOT do any pacing or ask for any compliance, I was so focused on non-verbally mirroring her that it didn't come to my mind till after. -.-
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

This journal entry is going to make me seem a little crazy.

Sexual Vibe: Another Piece to the Puzzle

I have been reading the posts from the old MASF forum where people like style and gunwitch hung out. Someone suggested that if you want to portray a sexual vibe, you should focus on kinaesthetic stimuli instead of visual stimuli. It’s important to focus on how your body is feeling in that very moment, rather than the way things look in the environment. I’ve been trying it out. I feel comfy and good a lot, and when I focus on my comfy feelings I naturally become more relaxed, my eyes droop, I just feel GOOD. I choose to perceive this good feeling as sexualness, and I can project it onto a girl.

Doggy Bowl Dinner Eyes: A Sign of Submission

Eyes are truly the window to the soul. I often see these beta guys who have very sparkly, wet eyes. They are the same eyes a girl gives me when she’s attracted to me. Why would beta guys and girls have these same eyes? The guy is not attracted to me, he’s simply just fearful and unconfident. But with the girls, they are attracted. The only common link is that there is submission involved. So, are doggy eyes not just a sign of attraction, but also a submission signal?

If fear is a byproduct of submission, then that’s why it’s so important to develop a connection with a girl. The fear has to be turned into feelings of safety before they will allow themselves to submit to you. It all makes sense! I will find out how to trigger feelings of safety. Obviously it’s different with every girl.

The Point of Eye Contact

I started looking at girls, not just to hold eye contact with them, but to hold eye contact with them and be aware that I'm dominating them with eye contact.. It was interesting - reactions became polarized, even though I was looking at girls the same amount of time as before. Some girls looked upwards (a sign of dismissiveness) and some got very turned on looks on their faces. Do girls perceive my eye contact differently when I hold eye contact with them without being aware that I'm dominating them vs when I choose to hold eye contact with them and be aware that I'm dominating them? i think so!

Microexpressions

There are subtle microexpressions that a girl makes when i look at her, but she is not looking at me and just senses it. If my look turns her on, she gets a submissive facial expression on her face.…its really hard to explain. Then I notice sometimes its the opposite. The girl will get a slightly annoyed look on her face. Pretty sure they're involuntary facial expressions, and they don't last long.

1000 APPROACHES UPDATE

I am moving to toronto may 1st for sure and my goal is a minimum of 1000 approaches over the next 4 months. This will be easily accomplishable by doing 10 approaches a day, but honestly in such a big city like toronto I will have the option of doing 20-30 a day or more which is super cool and nice.

Compliance Thoughts

The other day I was thinking about the proper way to respond to compliance requests from girls. So I did some digging around and found some answers from Chase and friends:

- If the girl is heavily invested in you, agree to her compliance request. This will raise your attainability and value.

- If the girl is not invested in you, and there’s the chance that you’re chasing her, do not accept her compliance request - deflect it/hoop it. Don’t say no, it will make you look bitter.

So then I was thinking..if a girl is trying to get compliance from you, you could try to get her to reduce the dominance of her attempt for compliance in order to force her into a more submissive position…would it be effective?

Here's a mock pretend example. In this scenario, the context is that I have been chasing a girl (highly unlikely in the real world lol), and now I try to change it around when she thinks she can boss me around:

Girl: Hold my purse. (demand)
Fog: ask me nicely. (also a demand)
Girl; can you hold my purse? (complies, reduces her demand to a request)
Fog: you should hold my jacket and i will (denying her compliance request, with a compliance suggestion)
PS. You can get dominance points around food service workers. I hear guys ask all the time:

Worker: What can i get for you?
Non-Dominant Guy: Can i please have two slices of pizza?
That’s lame. Here’s the right way to do it:

Worker: What can i get for you?
Dominant Guy: Two slices of pizza please.
Mirroring Thoughts

I’m thinking that it’s not good to mirror the body language of girls if they are exhibiting nervous body language. Rather, the only thing I should really mirror is their expressive body language: are they acting expressively, waving their hands around and stuff? If so, do that. If not, don’t mirror.

Body Language Improvements

i have started tightening up my body language so that it’s cool, smooth, flowy and sexy all the time, even in spontaneous situations. One of my best tips for myself is to pretend like I’m being watched by a really hot girl or that I’m on camera and theres 1000s of people watching me…all the time. For example, today I tried pushing open a door that was a pull door. Usually, this would get some sort of weird reaction out of me… like my default reaction is to jerk my body in this weird way. ITS TOUGH TO EXPLAIN. But I didn’t react at all, just simply and smoothly pulled the door open. All this rewiring of my body language is making me realize how inherently awkward the majority of my body language is. The way I move my body in situations other than walking and looking around is pretty gross.

But you start adding up all these little changes [to your body language] intended to emphasize alpha male characteristics, and suddenly you’re cooking with gas. - chateau heartiste
random notes on topics i am too lazy to write about right now

- i have been practising pacing. i'm a little rough around the edges
- i usually use questions in my active listening i.e. “so what you’re saying is that you dont like your mom?” but I am planning on using active listening statements instead i.e. “i can tell you really dont like your mom" ... seems more natural
- i am starting to practice the gunwitch method
- could mirroring lead to incongruence?
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Sorting Out Dates: Challenging In Toronto

I just moved to Toronto. I met a girl on tinder. Things have been going pretty well between me and her. She is making things pretty easy for me! She asked me to hang out first, gave me her number...Not a bunch of flirting or anything, but I did hint at public sex here:

Her: what sorts of things do you like to explore when you move to a new city? Maybe I can show you around
Fog: in terms of pg rated stuff, I like vintage stores, arts, concerts etc. I can trust my amazing new tour guide to show me that sort of stuff right? ;)
Her: Haha well I am pretty amazing :) *hair flips* If you don't mind me asking, what sorts of dirty bird places do you like to explore?
Fog: All the nooks crannies and secluded areas right the middle of the city. *smirking emoji*
Her: ah the good shit *smirking emoji*
Her: Text me when you move into your place in toronto and we can continue planning our adventure. ###-###-####
so now I'm trying to set up a time and date to meet up with her. Not only is toronto so big which makes things sort of a logistical nightmare for me, but I don't have a lot of experience with dates either. So I need some help. Here's the logistical convo between us:

Her: speaking of hanging out, when would you like to hang out? I'm a bit free this week if that works
Fog: what time do your night classes end on tuesday and thursday? :)
Her: They end at 9:30pm :)
fog: wow nice. okay i guess a better question would be...when is most convenient for you?
Her: After class isn't too bad for me cause I'm close to Neighborhood 1 which is a cool area, but I'm usually a bit tired after class. So I could meet up for a drink or something :) Wednesdays and Fridays are better for me in terms of day adventures. :)
Two options here:

A) Meet her on thursday night, after 930PM, for a drink.

The problem is that I don't drink, so would that be weird? She mentioned she's usually tired, which I think would get in the way of me pulling. At the same time, if she's tired and feeling calm, then I feel like I could install some good emotions in her and get a nice sexual vibe going.

Could potentially be an informative date too.

Maybe I could get her to meet me at a bar really close to my place? And my excuse could be that I am so lost. She mentioned neighbourhood 1 as a place to meet, but that's like a 20 minute ride car ride away..

B) Meet up with her on Friday during the day

She'd likely be in a normal mood. There would be no time constraints. I could do two venue changes, in order to build rapport. What if we met under the pretext it would be an "adventure" and she could show me around, but what I would do is get her to meet me near my place for lunch or a walk or something, work my magic, then pull her to my place?

I live on a busy street surrounded by restaurants, so I could get her to meet me on the street, and I could talk with her for 5 minutes there and gauge her interest level in me..if it's really high upon meeting her I could just be like "yo i forgot my ID at my place, lets go to my place for a sec and get it."
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

A Date with Kimono

Shortly after my last journal post, Kimono texts me and says:

Kimono: its super nice outside! id be down to get a drink tonight if youre free
I'm thinking that this chick is feening for me to hang out with her.

We agree to meet up at some japanese place. When I'm about 5 minutes away, I give her a call to let her know. We had not talked on the phone prior to this. I remember Hue mentioning he had done this before. I'm going to keep on calling girls shortly before we meet up, I feel like it's a great way to ease into the date.

It's a little loud at the japanese place so we go to a patio somewhere else. the whole time went alright, but I did not feel any sort of attraction towards her, nor any real desire to pull her. I think this was the part of the reason it took forever for her to emotionally hook. Anyways, her face was really stiff at first, and she was quite mellow. Eventually she started getting playful and her face stopped being so stiff...She started opening her mouth more and showing more of her teeth (a sign of submission?) Once she started getting playful, her vocal range and non-verbal expressions really opened up and I was able to mirror her a lot better, which led to us vibing pretty hard pretty quick. This would have been an opportune moment to do some verbal emotional cementing. I saw the waitress coming out of the corner of my eye - she talked to us and interrupted our bubble. The bubble was popped, and things just went downhill from here. I could have handled this by knowing how to deal with emotional cresting.

An interesting thing that happened was when I was telling her about how I hitch hiked somewhere. This is a story that conveys my adventurous side, but i'm not sure of it's value lately besides giving women an emotional reaction. I had been looking at her lips all night - she had no reaction to it, which was great. HOWEVER, during the hitch hiking story, which was filled with tales of danger and me upsetting my mom. I looked at her lips. All of a sudden, right when I did that, her face scrunched. It seems like that by doing this, I cemented sexual behaviour with the emotion she was feeling at the time (probably a negative one) in her mind. A bad idea. Now I'm thinking..I could use lip looks as an anchor of sorts. I should look at girls lips when talking about positive topics. I bet that if I look at a girls lips while talking about positive topics, then look at her lips later when the topic is more neutral, then I could get her feeling positive emotions.

Some of her stories seemed like routines...like they were canned material.. I knew they were routines because the way she told them seemed a little forced. Like she was reciting them from a script or something. This was very, very VERY interesting. I wonder how I picked up on this? Makes me worried about my own congruence, and how I can prevent others from feeling that “canned” feeling when i tell stories that i tell all the time.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Don't Be Abrupt

In marketing, we have a term called friction, which is the psychological resistance that your visitors experience when trying to complete an action. Friction is a conversion killer usually caused by unclear messaging, lack of information or poor layout. The goal when reducing friction is to make things as smooth as possible, and reduce the steps and mental load that a person has to take to buy something. Less steps is generally better.

This can easily be applied to seduction. In many different ways. I'll cover some RIGHT now.

Recently I mentioned that I'm going to start calling girls right before our date as a way to ease into it. With texting, there is no physical presence. She doesn't hear your voice or see your body language, she only sees words on a screen. Going from texting to meeting up in person can be rather abrupt. Now, all of a sudden, instead of words on a screen, there's a person with her. I feel like this is a huge step, and you can break it down into smaller simpler steps:

Texting -> Calling -> Meeting Up
When you call before meeting up, now it's not overwhelming for her because you've reduced the stimuli that is new to her upon meeting her. She's already heard your voice and vibe, and just has to deal with your physical presence now.

So what else?

- This is nothing new, and has obviously been covered before, but when you meet someone, you don't just dive into asking them deep questions right away. You need to ease into it, perhaps some small talk, first. Asking deep questions upon meeting someone is abrupt and shocking.

- Emotional cresting: Building up emotions really quickly, and going into a crest, then not being able to cushion them when they go into a trough. Going from feeling heavy emotions to no emotions is very abrupt.

- Using pushes. Using pushes incorporates friction into your interaction. I believe that pushing out of the blue can often be very abrupt and unsettling. Shouldn't you break pushes down into smaller steps and ease into it so it reduces the abrupt shock of when you push her away?

Pull - Pull - Pull - Neutral - Subtle non-verbal push - Subtle verbal push - Overt verbal push
- Sex talk/sexual vibe. I remember when I was volunteering for a B league hockey team. There was this old gross lady who would always go to the games. I would chat with her sometimes. She never had a sexual vibe towards me. One day, I'm talking to her, and she's acting normal. All of a sudden, she pulls out a strong sexual vibe towards me. I was not expecting it, it shocked me, I wasn't ready for it and it pushed me away. A person should ease into their sexual vibe, and give the other person time to get used to it.

Normal vibe - Lip looks and sexy smiles for a quick second - Normal Vibe - More lip looks, longer sexy smiles - Normal vibe with subtle sex talk - More sexual nonverbals - Normal vibe - Normal vibe with sex talk - Sexual vibe with sex talk
- This one's a little more abstract: getting to know a new person can be abrupt. Most people interact with people they already know, and people who know each other treat each other a different way than people who dont know each other treat each other. By treating a new person like you already know them (in a calibrated way - GUNWITCH METHOD) and hold the frame that you already know them, this can be less abrupt. Conversely, if you go into an interaction and pretend you already know them way too hard, the other person gets confused, creating friction.

These are the topics that I can name off the top of my mind, I know there's definitely more and will be looking to reduce friction in the future.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Escalation With Pizzy Ends In Hives Episode

I met Pizz on tinder. Our conversation was quite, umm…drab…some small talk, nothing much. Her tinder profile says shes a goofy person, but she gave no indication of it through text. It was sort of tough to get a read on how she was feeling towards me and we didn’t really develop a connection through text. Here was something silly after I asked her to hangout:

Pizz: what are you on tinder for?
Fog: I’m open to anything
Pizz: anything?
Fog: anything
lOOOL anything except for butt pegging

She cooperated with the decision making process of when we should hang out. She preferred to hang out Friday evening rather than hang out Saturday during the day. We agreed to meet at a coffee shop close to my house.

I call her 10 minutes before we had agreed to meet up, to tell her I will be 10 minutes late.

I walk into the coffee shop in a very calm mood. shes at the front ordering her tea. I walk beside her and tap her shoulder. We make eye contact, and she gets this microexpression of shock/disgust on her face. I knew right away she probably, likely wasn’t attracted. She is making small talk with the waiter while they make her tea and not paying attention to me. Instead of uselessly standing there, I take the time to scope out a seat for us.

She gets her tea, I get some water (was feeling really dehydrated omg) and we sit down across from each other. She’s got purple lipstick on and a choker. She’s got piercings all over her nose, including a bull ring.

We start talking and she cannot stop laughing at everything I say. Since she’s laughing a lot, I keep emotional cresting in mind. Although she’s across the table, I drop some kino in there when she’s laughing maniacally.

I tell her I’m going to get myself some more water and head across the coffee shop. While I’m pouring water, I look over towards her. There’s some sort of railing that is preventing me from seeing her eyes. I stoop slightly and we catch each other’s eyes. She bursts into a laughing fit. Some of the other people in the shop are giving me weird looks.

I rejoin her and eventually there comes a part where she starts pelting me non-stop with questions. It was tough for me to turn the conversation back to her because she’d just turn it back on me. Then she says that I’m a very interesting person and that she’s trying to get to the bottom of me. When a girl verbally says I’m interesting, I know it’s time to pull.

I invite her to go for a walk with me. She has a slight objection because she didn’t wear the right shoes to go for a walk. We talk some more while she finishes her tea. Then she says,

Pizz: Are we going?
It hasn’t been long since we first met. I’ll estimate 20 minutes. I lead her out the door, and we start walking. Conversation is starting to become more sparse at this point. There’s big silences, but I don’t sweat it. She’s wondering where we’re going. I say that we could go to my place. She doesn’t think it’s a good idea to go to someones house when she’s just met them. She thinks I could be a serial killer. I just let it be, and do some reframing that she could be a serial killer too.

I keep making her laugh, and she says, for like the 3rd time:

Pizz: Do you know youre funny?
We walk past my place (but i dont tell her) and keep going. Then she’s wondering where my place is. I said that we passed it. She’s still expressing hesitance, but I am enthusiastic and say that i want to show her my place cuz its so nice. Plus won’t it be nice to get her shoes off? LOL

We walk into my place, and it takes a lot of coaxing to get her to take her shoes and coat off. I don’t push it, and just let her adjust. One issue is that there's like 0 furniture cuz I just moved in here.

She’s wondering:

Pizz: are we staying here?
This is the part where I make my first mistake. I am a little too wishy washy here, saying we can stay here if you want. Shoulda said..yes we’re staying here. Wasn’t being strong enough in my leading - I was thrown off with her whole discomfort.

Pizz wanted to see my roommates cat - but said she was allergic to cats if she touches them. So I picked up the cat and brought it out. A mistake…I touched the cat, and then was touching her later, so that made her allergic. On top of that, she got very close to the cat and air petted it. I’m pretty sure she was doing this to purposely get allergic or something. Also at one point the cat was on my bed and she was sitting on my bed.

We are in the kitchen on the stools. Usually I have a ten minute rule to make a move, but I did not abide by it. It’s different when girls don’t trust you yet. Gotta let them adjust. We’re listening to music and looking at instagram, and then she starts saying she’s bored. Oops, missed an escalation window. Soon after I kiss her neck. She says this right after:

Pizz: So this was what you wanted to do?
Me: I just wanted to get to know you a little better.
Handled that one good. But she’s starting to have an allergic reaction, sniffling and getting hives on her neck. Makes things difficult. she doesn’t even seem interested in my advances to begin with, and her body language is overall negative.

Time goes on and after some more escalation, she’s getting pretty testy. accusing me of my strong eye contact that is turning into staring contests between us. I always reframed - she’s the one who’s initiating it and choosing to hold it with me. The testy behaviour is good, I know she’s considering sleeping with me at this point.

I invite her into my room but she’s expressing concerns over the cat and how it was laying on my bed earlier. I tell her we will take the top cover off. She’s refusing, I don’t push and just let it be.

At one point I’m kissing her neck, and I guess I got a glitter sparkle on my face from her. I give her a compliance request (a mistake) to take it off. She declines! Ooooops. Then, she is getting bossy with me saying I should make her coffee. I tell her no in a bad vocal tone. Another mistake. She starts getting offended over it, saying it was very rude of me. I explain, saying she won’t take the glitter sparkle off my nose so I won’t make her coffee. She keeps wondering if I was kidding. I assure her I was kidding. Who knows how many dominance points I lost here.

I start getting more aggressive. I grab and pull the nape of her hair. After I start doing this, she’s finally got the sparkly look in her eyes, her eye movement is becoming more rapid and she’s even looking at my lips woohoo! I guess the hair pulling turned her on. We make out. After I pull away, my face is covered in purple lipstick. We have a good laugh over that. I go wipe it off. Bit of momentum was lost here.

She eventually comes into my room with me, but just as we get in there, but my roommate comes home and starts bitching at me. Pizz feels uncomfortable about this, and is also expressing physical discomfort over her hives and breathing. Oh darn. She’ll let me touch her, but won’t let me kiss her.

She says she has to leave, but not before meeting my roommate and having a chat with her about insects. WTF. I am standing there listen to these two girls talk about bugs. Then pizz leaves.

An interesting, yet unsatisfying experience for sure. I don’t think she was attracted from the outset. But she thought I was funny, and was intrigued by me. I believe I also showed outcome independence. I also left things sort of open ended the whole interaction. Ie. saying we should go for a walk, but not fully cementing plans, then changing the subject and sorting out full plans later. I wonder how this impacted things? DON'T BE ABRUPT..?! This is seeding!!!!

I likely could have turned her into a notch, but her allergic reaction, anticipation of my roommate coming home, and my mistakes fucked it all up.

I’m thinking the reason why she didn’t trust me was because I didn’t get her talking enough about herself and didn’t build a good enough connection. I really should have pushed for not only building a connection, but maintaining the intrigue as well while we were at my house.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

date with drop

Another tinder girl. Easy to build a connection with through text, and gave me great signs of interest, including changing her frame to match mine when i disagreed with her frame and reframed it sexually (in bold):

fog: theres this place called in the east end called **** ****. you should meet me there for coffee on sunday and we could always go for a walk afterwards
drop: aww that sounds v v cute
drop: I’m down!
fog: i agree :) should be a good time! hopefully the weather cooperates
drop: ohh i almost hope it doesnt - a little moody overcast would add some layers *smirking face*
fog: hmmm, I’m under a different impression. the less layers the better ;)
drop: oh that was witty. *poop emoticon* I’m changing my position
drop: less is more
We met up at a coffee shop 2 doors down from my house. She was talking about how she was at a party with some high energy people, and she wasn’t really digging it because she’s a low energy person. She wasn’t lying - her energy levels remained low the entire time, and there was not much fluctuation in her vocal tones. She was, however, expressive with her hands and face. I didn’t really like her facial expressions. Too much facial movement, particularly with her eyes and lips, and not in a good way. It was unattractive to me.

I got her talking about her passion - art - and she instantly became more expressive with her hands. I teased her trance word out of her regarding her passion. She said it made her feel “fulfilled.” Now that I am able to actively recognize when a girl is talking about her passion, I want to anchor it to me. After reading some info from the masf forums, I think this will involve converting the passion from an activity to a person, and then using an anchor.

I’m going to strategize how to get girls talking about their passion quicker (but not before I can get a read on what their baseline expressions are like). Maybe it’s as simple as asking... but there probably needs to be some rapport there first before they can allow themselves to freely talk about it.

Also, at some point she started opening up her mouth a little more. I can’t remember whether this was when she was talking about her passion or not. Showing more of one’s mouth is always a good sign. I honestly wish I could remember the order that things took place, because it’s important.

She started shaking her leg, scratching her arm, peeling the label off the water bottle she was drinking out of. She also gave me bedroom eyes for a minute, but I cannot remember whether it took place before or after the scratching and shaking. Obviously, the scratching and shaking was her expressing her boredom, which means I missed an escalation window. I needa get better at handling escalation windows.

I did create a nice little low energy bubble for us at one point. My mistake was constantly trying to create higher energy bubbles. This was not the right strategy. I should have purely stuck to the low energy bubbles. I’m sure my attempts to create a high energy bubble came across as tryhard and unrelatable.

This got me thinking about my bubble strategy in general. There are deep dive (low energy) bubbles and playful (high energy) bubbles. I can create a high energy bubble by mirroring vocal tones and facial expressions, and talking quicker. I can create a low energy bubble by talking very slowly with the girl and using lots of pauses. It’s always better to try to get to the next step of the interaction while in a bubble.

I did seed the pull, talking about some art I had at my place. After she was done her tea, I invited her for a walk. We walked down the street, then I told her I had to pee so we should go back to my place (i actually truly did have to pee, mom). We turned around. As I’m walking up to my door, I pull my keys out of my pocket and some condoms fell out of my pocket. AHHHH!!! She did notice!!!!! I was very indirect the whole time, so I’m sure when she saw them, it was a huge shocker to her and ruined all plausible deniability. Funny enough, this wasn’t the first time this situation has happened with a girl.

She came into my place, and I showed her my paintings, but there was an uncomfortable vibe in the air - she hovered in the doorway of my room and didn’t come in. I was not leading, which made it weird and sketchy. I sent her on her way.

This was a bad date for several reasons:

- There was too much of a “getting to know you” vibe
- My vocal tonality was not sexual
- i wasn’t attracted, nor was I interested in anything she had to say - I even zoned out while she was talking about her passion
- the table was too big, so I could not touch her from across the table, unlike the other 2 dates I had this week.
- Not hitting escalation windows
- Not adjusting my strategy for her energy
This was a good date for several reasons:

- I got her talking about emotions
- I did some seeding
- I got her in a low energy bubble
- I pulled her to my place
- I was very observant. This thing with the mouth keeps popping up, and can actively recognize when a girl is truly actually talking about her passion
Maybe if I had hit the escalation windows just right, handled the transition from the cafe to my house better, and been more flirty, then this could have been a lay. Despite this I learned a lot. I have since deleted tinder, because I'm sick of going on dates with girls I'm not attracted to. My profile sucks. I know what my game plan is for the next few weeks, I will cover that in future posts.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Bubbly Mirroring Sessions

today I went and forced myself to do some approaches after succumbing to approach anxiety for the past 7 days and now my reluctance to approach has magically transformed into excitement. feels super nice.

One of my current issues is that I have a lot of frames I want to operate from, techniques and tactics I want to try out, and routines to practice. During interactions I start getting in my head and wondering what to do next (should i do this? THAT? WHAT about this and that!?) which just trips me up and stumbles me. I’m not 100% there.

My behaviour of mirroring girls still happens within conscious thought. I wonder if this is a behaviour that will become unconscious….as much as I would like to move on, I think I might need to stick around and focus on this for a little while longer.

On the street today, I happened upon an old friend of mine - she’s super warm. In the past, I was able to create high energy bubbles by mirroring a girl’s expressive vocal tones. When it comes to hand expressions that a girl is doing, I always felt sort of weird doing them after her. But today, with my old friend, I did the hand expressions at the SAME TIME as her (after getting her into a high energy bubble with her by mirroring her higher energy and expressive vocal tones) She didn’t accuse me of copying her - in fact, it was beneficial and enhanced the rapport and mood between us!

Now I’m wondering how I can turn these little mirroring sessions, bubbles, vibes…..into a strong advantage for me? Three ways:

1. I want to transition from copying the girl, into having the girl copy me so that now I’m in the lead…At first I thought that this takes time, but I think I could make it happen rather quickly by asking her to do something at the same time as me that requires conscious thought - a behaviour that involves teaming up with me for something really quickly, like a Hi 5! And then afterwards, I would get her to copy me by engaging in behaviour and holding the frame that she should copy me. Like if she’s in a silly mood already, and i throw some finger guns at her, then she should get the hint and throw them back. She would be rewarded with eye contact/kino, so that she will have incentive to continue to mirror me.

2. I need to cement these bubbles effectively. I have to come up with lines to say BEFORE going out into the field. Today I used “we are having so much fun.” but I could do better.

3. I need to anchor these bubbles effectively to a word or non-verbal. What I will try out is an arm squeeze during high energy bubbles.

Unrelated: I got to talking about my friend’s passion with her. She volunteered her trance word for passion to me rather quickly: “connection.” Last journal post, I mentioned how I am gonna use this to my advantage. As soon as I got her trance word, I was scrambling to recall what to do next. It was like a tornado in my head. I wish I had anchored her trance word to me, or gone deeper into exploring what those feelings actually feel like to her. I will probably be hanging out with her soon.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

DAYGAME: A SPECTATOR SPORT?

There were several instances today where I would open a girl, and shortly after I would have an audience! People would start hovering around us with curious looks in their eyes. I was peacocking while in a higher energy mood, and I also had some jitters, so I can see why this happened.

People are in their own little world here. I will open, and they will keep doing what they're doing for a few seconds until they realize that I am talking to them. I gotta adjust my pre-opening, and I think that giving a high energy opener to jolt them out of their fog quick will really help.

Hair playing/twirling is a waaay more common approach invitation in Toronto compared to where I'm from.

Had some solid hooks today. One worthwhile mention was an older lady from the phillipines. Upon opening, she smiled at me and her eyelashes rapidly fluttered ! I had never seen that before. Tomorrow I will pay particular attention to a girl's baseline facial expression before I open her, and observe it upon opening. A few days ago, one girl's eyes got really wide in the weirdest way when I approached her.

To Learn: Reframing

Style believed that reframing was a huge part of flirting in a bar, so I decided to....learn how....to effectively reframe. I've been doing a lot of reading on it. When I fully understand all the reframing techniques that are humanly possible, I will compile them into a post in the advanced forum. It's a powerful technique!
 

Straza

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

There were several instances today where I would open a girl, and shortly after I would have an audience! People would start hovering around us with curious looks in their eyes.

I get this too bro! Approached a girl in a grocery aisle the other day and within a minute or so, the aisle had six or seven more people. It was just the two of us before. Kinda feels cool in a way, but can also add the pressure of making your convo sound cool to outsiders.

Do you still approach a girl immediately when there are people very close by who will definitely hear you open, or do you try and wait a sec for more space to be created? Even if you personally don’t get nervous from having a crowd anymore, wouldn’t the girl feel kinda anxious having it happen right in front of other people?
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Hi Straza!

Straza said:
Do you still approach a girl immediately when there are people very close by who will definitely hear you open, or do you try and wait a sec for more space to be created?
The only time I take other people into consideration is if a girl is in a crowd of people and I’m not able to approach at an angle that I would like to. The presence of other people used to prevent me from approaching...I would be concerned that they would think negatively of me. But in reality, the majority of the time they are entertained and think you got a huge pair of balls. Now that I've moved to Toronto, there's people everywhere all the time, so being comfortable with the possibility of other people overhearing is necessary.

Straza said:
Even if you personally don’t get nervous from having a crowd anymore, wouldn’t the girl feel kinda anxious having it happen right in front of other people?
Good question. This is highly dependent on the girl's personality, the environment, the type of game you're playing, and how good your game and fundamentals are. If you're doing everything right, she'll be sunbathing in an emotional paradise and won't even realize there's other people there.
 

Straza

Space Monkey
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Songbird-

The only time I take other people into consideration is if a girl is in a crowd of people and I’m not able to approach at an angle that I would like to. The presence of other people used to prevent me from approaching...I would be concerned that they would think negatively of me. But in reality, the majority of the time they are entertained and think you got a huge pair of balls. Now that I've moved to Toronto, there's people everywhere all the time, so being comfortable with the possibility of other people overhearing is necessary.
I see. So just like approach anxiety, it's a barrier you have to overcome somewhere along the way.

Good question. This is highly dependent on the girl's personality, the environment, the type of game you're playing, and how good your game and fundamentals are. If you're doing everything right, she'll be sunbathing in an emotional paradise and won't even realize there's other people there.
Gotcha. Quality of approach trumps these other negligible factors.

Yeah man my city is also pretty populous. I'll have to get use to doing this then if i want to really progress.

On a side note. Before I found Girls Chase, I read a lot of Manosphere material and was really “red pill”. I distinctly remember guys professing that Toronto was the worst City in the world to meet girls. Lol, articles like this:

http://www.returnofkings.com/58796/15-reasons-why-toronto-is-the-worst-city-in-north-america-for-men

I doubt this applies to seducers of GC caliber, but I'm curious. How has your experience been so far? Does it compare at all with where you moved from
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Straza said:
I distinctly remember guys professing that Toronto was the worst City in the world to meet girls. Lol, articles like this:

http://www.returnofkings.com/58796/15-reasons-why-toronto-is-the-worst-city-in-north-america-for-men
lmfao before i moved i was scouring the web trying to find first hand accounts from people regarding what the girls are like in this city. that was one of the articles i read! There’s a lot of people agreeing on one thing: it’s a tough place to game. Apparently toronto guys are shy while the women are snobby and unapproachable...

Straza said:
How has your experience been so far? Does it compare at all with where you moved from
my roommate says that she has guys coming up to her all the time hitting on her and trying to get her number. And my initial perception of the women here is that they are friendly and open to being approached (although not as friendly as other places I’ve daygamed, like montreal). So right now I’m having a hard time understanding what all the fuss is about on the web.

I’ll have a better interpretation of what the city is like (in general, and compared to where I moved from) after I get some more approaches under my belt and start hitting some plateaus. I’ll have to let you know!

I’m hoping it turns out to be a really tough place to get chicks, because then I’ll be forced to really tighten up my fundamentals and game to see success. Then when I move somewhere else in the future, I’ll be able to clean up like nobody’s business. :)

What's your city like?
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

LR-: Couchsurfer Walks 11KM to See Me

I was just about to finish up applying to jobs and head out to go daygaming. But I got this friend invite from this chick on facebook. I inboxed her and we talked briefly - she invited me to a concert that was taking place the next night.

We started bantering, and I pulled out a silly routine that I had learned the night before from Steve P. Immediately, she changes her stance:

Quack: I almost wanna meet up now cause of that comment haha
This was great because:

The night before I had read Chase’s article about the 4 types of social styles, and how you can figure out someone’s social style and mirror it in order to build more rapport with them. I’ve been focusing on mirroring lately, so I was ecstatic to find yet another mirroring technique! Just from our facebook convo, I knew Quack definitely had the social style of an expressive and was likely gonna use a lot of hand/facial/tonal expressions.

I wanna get better on dates and interacting with girls for longer amounts of time.

It also turns out she had just moved to Toronto as well, from the same city I had just moved from. I tell her to meet me at the cafe two doors down from my house. She briefly objected asking me to meet her halfway but I told her to meet me there anyways.

2 hours later, we finally meet. She’s this tall african chick in her early 30s with a huge head of curly hair, and she’s wearing a sundress. She says she’s gotten lost a gazillion times and her phone has died. (Later we discovered she walked 11KM to see me). We walk to a tim hortons nearby and get some coffee.

She starts chatting my ear off with her past experiences and I shut up and let her talk. At one point she mentions she’s a no-nonsense person….hmmm…could she be part Expressive/part Driver?

I also anchored positive emotions to a snap of my fingers. Whenever she laughed or smiled, I would snap my fingers. It worked - I talk about this later.

The Pull

She’d been talking for a while and I sense an escalation window of some sort SHOULD be coming up, but something doesn’t feel quite right…I feel like there should be more banter, or something to really push her over the edge to make her sold on me. ….I wasn’t sure what it was….

She’s a pretty spiritual person, so I tell her about how I have synesthesia. Ah! It was crazy! Now all of a sudden she’s gushing over how I’m such a good person and she likes all the qualities I have (which is hilarious - I didn’t even reveal much about myself).The best part was that she was giving me some doggie eyes. Time to pull!

Fog: lets go for a walk
As we’re walking out the door, she practically invites herself over to my place. She wasn’t lying when she said she was a no-nonsense person. We talk about my roommate, and when I say my roommate isn’t home, she touches my arm for the first time.

We get into my place. When I brought Pizzy back to my place, we sat on some stools at the island in the kitchen. But since then there’s been more furniture added. Quack sits down on this chair in the living room. I sit down on the loveseat. Oh darn, here’s an obstacle. I should have asked her to sit down on the loveseat with me. But there was this nagging voice in the back of my head (Style always talks about it), that said I shouldn’t turn things sexual and break the rapport we have. Wack ass voice. You can bet I’ll be making it shut up in the future.

An Escalation Window

We keep talking. Then I notice she’s rubbing her shoulder and neck with her hand - I saw this sort of body language with Drop (I read up on it after. It’s indicative of nervous behaviour - and in these sort of situations, it’s likely sexual tension). All of a sudden, there’s the doggie eyes again!

But she did not have any sort of sexual vibe towards me at all, it was just the doggie eyes….which was weird, usually girls who give me doggie eyes pair it with a smile, but here she was acting very platonically, and giving me doggie eyes with no smile. Regardless I jumped on the window:

Fog: Hey come sit with me.
In the blink of an eye she’s sitting with me. I escalate as normal…she’s starting to touch me more and at one point she randomly lays her head on my chest and starts projecting into the future. She really digs me…..i’m in the boyfriend zone.

Some Fun Stuff

We end up in my bed. I wasn’t in a hurry to get anywhere with her, and she was giving me a bit of resistance anyways so I didn’t push it. Later she said she let me get as far as I did because I was so patient!

We made out a lot, felt each other up, and she gave me a pretty wicked handjob. I busted all over her tits. Her sexual vibe came out here. She was reaallllly turned on and said she wanted to jump on me. I should have let her!!! Urghhh but I talked myself out of it because I was about to blow, and felt it would be a little anticlimactic.

My roommate came home, and Quack expressed hesitance over this. Later Quack said she didn’t wanna engage in anything too sexual with me while my roommate was in the house, because Quack is loud in bed. I feel like girls are potentially more wary about my current female roommate than they would be with a male roommate.

Quack does some sort of rationalization, saying its good we didn’t bang because now she’s more “pent up” and the sex will be better when we finally do it. Plus she says there’s no rush anyways.

She Stays The Night

She stays the night. Before we fall asleep she asks me if we can take a shower in the morning.

Unfortunately I have a single air mattress. The both of us on there was too much for the air mattress and a hole got blown in it. I think like two times in the middle of the night we hadda wake up and blow all the air back into it.

Short Intermission For Random Facts

- I have not spent much time with 30 year olds, so I thought she was interesting. She had this very caring, nurturing, motherly vibe that I don’t see with younger chicks.

- Sometimes when I would give her compliance commands, she would ask me to say please. This was her actively trying to reduce the dominance of my attempts to get her to comply. I didn’t say please. Conversely, there were times where she would give me compliance commands, and I would ask her to say please. And she did!

- Throughout this whole time, she was talking about how she was going through a time of turmoil, but I made her feel a sense of peace. I guess i helped her fulfill her need for peace, and this is likely why she grew attached to me so quick.

- She asked if she was the first girl I’ve had over since I moved. I was honest and said no- I told her about how Pizzy got allergic to the cat. Quack laughed and asked if that was why I asked if she was allergic to cats earlier.

- She also told me a little bit about why she started feeling so connected to me before we got to my house:

“When you started talking about energy I just knew”
“When we both said the word ‘awesome’ at the same time.” (me doing some mirroring, lol)
The Next Morning

Now listen, in the morning my roommate leaves and immediately Quack wants to go right in the shower and bang. There was something fishy with this, idk…the previous night, she wouldn’t let me take her undies off…why we gotta go in the shower, why cant we stay in bed?

Anyways I had never banged a girl in the shower before, and we tried, but with the combo of the hot water and condom, I just couldn’t concentrate enough to get hard.

So we go back into my bed, but I still can’t get hard! It’s dumb because I was so hard the night before. This is my biggest sticking point, sometimes i think I should get a girlfriend so I can bang her and get some solid experience with having sex, but I don’t want to give up day game…

This chick had a really strong, dominant sexual frame, I felt embarrassed that I couldn’t dominate or even satisfy her sexually…. -.- I took extra care to verbally dominate her and otherwise be more of a challenge wherever possible after this.

What Happened After?

I let her stay another night because her living situation was uncertain. I won’t go into details, urggh. But this chick would not put out. She’d let me make out with her, and acted in a very boyfriend-y way towards me in general, but that’s it. Trust me I was annoyed and wanted to go meet some new chicks.

I’ll cover some of the more interesting things that happened during this time:

At one point, during a period where the mood between us was neutral, I snapped my finger. Then she tells me it was a positive snap. What!!!!!? I did not persist, but I’m pretty sure that my finger snap anchor triggered some sort of positive emotions within her.

Then she was looking at me with doggy eyes, but she had this weird super caring look on her face that seemed so magical. So I said:

Fog: What does it mean when you look at me like that?
And then she starts gushing over how she likes spending time with me and all this other stuff she likes about me. Awwww heck ya this was the most perfect time to use some emotional cementing woooooO!!!

Later that night, after I brought out some teasing and charm, she started acting in a mushy gushy way towards me. Giving me lots of kisses in quick succession on my cheeks and lips. When girls really like you, they start doing this.

Conclusion

In the time spent with this girl, I learned so much about anchoring, escalation windows, compliance, body language, emotional cementing, framing, mirroring…everything!!!! I can’t believe how much better my game is going to get because of this.

The only negative part is that I have hickies on my neck now and this is gonna get in the way of daygame….
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,051
Location
ontario
Re: songbird fog talks about women

I Banged Quack

Quack was over the other night and we banged. But she’s overall been really clingy, and some of the things she’s said to me have really gotten under my skin. Made me lose interest pretty quick…

Weirdly enough, I ended up having lunch with her and her parents. Her father seemed a bit shy towards me (wouldn't hold much eye contact) and her mom kept displaying nervous ticks like adjusting her shirt. Later on, Quack told me that they were very intimidated by me, and that this shocked her, because they are not intimidated by anyone!

I was in a really powerful state of mind at the time.

Rapid Topic Changes and Emotions Not Matching Conversation Topic

This is an idea that I had today while out day gaming. It’s a tad abstract, but I’ll explain:

Okay so let’s say you’re bantering with a chick, and she’s laughing a lot and in an amused state. Then all of a sudden, you change to a slightly more serious topic. Because you’ve changed the topic so quick, she will STILL be in an amused state, even thought the tone of the conversation has changed. Her emotional state does not match the conversation topic.

Now let’s say you’re in the same situation, except you give her a bit of time to calm down from the amused state, and then change to a slightly more serious topic. Now her emotional state matches the conversation topic.

Does this even matter? And if it does, what effect does it have? Which is better for seduction? I came up with this idea because I’ve been using rapid topic changes as a technique to try to hook girls.

My Roommate’s Adventures With Guys

My female roomie often tells me about the guys who approach her. She says they often don’t engage her in conversation, and usually ask for her number without making much conversation. This is my competition she’s talking about.

She said that a big rapper came into her work the other day and asked for her number. She’s a typical example of a social ladder climber - her goal is to meet big rappers, and she wants to become friends with lower level people just so she can get them to introduce her to the big rappers.

Anyways, here’s the interesting part… She works with a guy who she thinks is cute - but she complains to me a lot about how she can’t read him and doesn’t know if he likes her or not. She does have his snap but not his phone number. So then, on her night off, she was saying that if this guy and the rapper both asked her to hang out on the same night, she would choose to hang out with the guy she works with. I thought this was interesting. It shows how desire/anticipation/mystery can beat out preference...

Eye Scanning: A Sign of Attraction

Today I met a latino girl who was clearly attracted to me. Mirroring me, laughing at everything I was saying, doggie eyes, the whole 9 yards...While I was talking to her, her eyes were moving from side to side - I know this means that she’s gauging my reaction. However, the fact that this behaviour was paired with all the other signs of attraction leads me to think that this behaviour itself is a sign of attraction…or at least an IOI.

Separating High Energy Vibes From High Energy Body Language

I realized that when I’m in a higher energy state, my body language becomes a lot more high energy as well. I have been working on being in a higher energy state, but using low energy, slow body language.

"I’ve Always...” as a Tool to Build Trust

People who constantly change their opinion seem wishy washy. In order to build trust and reliability with people, it’s important to be seen as consistent in your beliefs and opinions.

Imagine the toronto maple leafs won the stanley cup. Compare these two scenarios:

Fog: I’ve always liked the toronto maple leafs
or

Fog: I like the toronto maple leafs
Which guy do you trust more? The guy who says he’s always liked them, or the guy who says he likes them, and thus has possibility jumped on the bandwagon? It’s the former.

Needless to say, lately when I describe myself or my opinions, I make sure to include “I’ve always” at the start. I wonder if this actually has an effect.

Daygame: Getting Past Sticking Points

I was hitting this wall where I just couldn’t get into a good conversation with any girl. But today I built up some nice social momentum and had a few sets that resulted in conversations. I’ve been acting more aggressive, bantering more, and ejecting less - this is part of it.

Daygame went really well today. I opened a pair of girls near a street performer and got them into a really high energy state. We were laughing and having a lot of fun - other people walking by were curious about what was happening, and seemed interested.

Do You Believe in Magic Spells?

This is a line that mystery would use. I’ve been trying it out on girls who look like they could possibly do magic. I’ve opened two sets with it. One set was initially interested, but ejected immediately after I asked her this. The second set immediately became rude and cold with me. It was really weird - perhaps witches are not allowed to reveal their magic secrets to pickup artists?
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,051
Location
ontario
Re: songbird fog talks about women

new technique ALERT: Superfluous Apology + Pacing + Relating Combo

Quick piece of tech here that’s super easy to implement!

Superfluous apologies are when you apologize to someone for something you are clearly not responsible for. Studies show that using a superfluous apology increases the victim’s trust in the apologizer - it demonstrates empathetic concern.

You can pair superfluous apologies along with pacing and other rapport building techniques to rapidly build trust and an emotional connection with girls.

Here’s an example from today, in which I approached a cashier in a relatively empty grocery store:

Fog: I’m sorry it’s not busy. (Superfluous Apology) I know you must be bored. (Pacing)
Cashier Girl: *starts laughing* Oh my god I'm so bored, it sucks!
Fog: I remember when I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store. When business was slow, time would just drag on and on and on… (Relating)
I was surprised by how fast this caused her to start vibing with me.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,051
Location
ontario
Re: songbird fog talks about women

Super MEGA Frustrated

I am having alotta trouble with my vibe. If I go into a set and I'm more on the serious side/not experiencing any sort of social momentum, girls get very creeped out by me.

If I'm warmed up and go into a set with high social momentum and act very playful, girls hook and give the doggy eyes/are really friendly - BUT THEY SAY THEY HAVE A BOYFRIEND. OR THEY DECLINE TO HANG OUT WITH ME!

Some girls are engaged by me, but literally become speechless...they have no clue what to say to me!

It's the most annoying thing ever! I know it's not a problem with my general routines, because I use the same routines in all situations lately. I know it's not a problem with my fundamentals....therefore it's a problem with my vibe:

1. I'm too high energy compared to them
2. I'm reframing their objections too much, leaving them very confused
3. I'm asking for their contact info too early

It sets off their alarm bells and they can't take me seriously. I guess it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot...

South American girls respond pretty well to me though!!! Woohooo!!! And they love it when I realize they're from south america.
 
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