fog talks about women

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,044
Location
ontario
Re: songbird fog talks about women

The start of my 7th page :) It appears I have the longest journal on the boards. Can’t wait for the next 7!

Summary

I detail 4 approaches:

- 2 of which i was received well.
- 2 of which i got blown out

Approach 1 - Warm Reception

I was standing. A black HB5 came and stood near me. Not a clear approach invitation, but I treated her proximity as such. I walk up to her. She’s got earphones in. I shake my hand to test her receptiveness. She takes out her earphones:

Me: you single?
Her [mumbling, does a slight turn of her body] no. [was a 3-4 word answer, can’t remember exactly]
Me: [can’t remember what my reply was, probably “that’s alright” but i need to work on a waaay better answer to a no.]
She’s trying to go back to looking at her phone. But i’m not gonna let her:

Me: Your shirt. What’s it say? [There’s a lot of words on the shirt, but it says new york at the top]
Her: [Touching her clothes] Idk I don’t really pay attention, i just sort of bought it. [indifferent tone]
Me: ohhh new york! I know what new york is like! It’s very dirty.
Her: [starts opening up] ya when i bought it my sister was talking about it. [she continues talking, but i can’t hear her/im in my head]
Somehow the conversation turns to traveling shortly after:

Her: i’ve lived in toronto my whole life
Me: ohhh so youre one of THOSE girls. well do you have any plans to travel?
Her: [laughing]it’s in my plans to travel, eventually
Me: oh ya? Where do you wanna go?
Her: I was thinking Rio
Me: why rio? why not somewhere in europe
Her: [explaining her reason]
Me: and after that?
Her: I’m not sure
Me: you gotta go somewhere romantic! Like spain
Her: Hmm I was thinking paris
Me: yes thats romantic too
We start chatting about what the food that paris is known for. Weird how topics can change so easy:

Her: what’s the main food there?
Me: tea and crumpets
Conversation continues, eventually she asks me this:

Her: what’s your name?
Me: fog, nice to meet you
Her: I’m alison. With one L.
Me: does that ever bug you? the fact that there’s one L?
Her: no actually, not really. [explains more, but I’m too in my head again]
At this point, she’s smiling, investing, giving me IOIs and signs of nervousness. Chemistry seems to be good so I transition into a yes ladder:

Me: alison I have a good idea
Her: what’s that
Me: are you ready to hear it
Her: yes
Me: do you drink liquids
Her [hesitant] yes i drink water
Me: how about we go for a water soon
Her: I’m sorry i dont think my boyfriend would like that.
Me: he doesnt have to know.
Her: huh? [seems confused]
Me: he doesnt have to know!
Can’t remember what was said after this - her rejection continued, she was polite about it though.

Her: I’m actually waiting for him right now. [trying to get me to leave]

I was going to tell her to put her number in my phone anyways if they ever broke up. So I asked her this:

Me: is it serious??
Her: it really is
Me: like you’re gonna get married
Her: that serious, we’ve been together for years.
Me: ok, im not gonna fuck with that
Her: *laughs*
Me: have a good day! nice to meet you
Analysis

This girl was initially slightly unreceptive due to her shyness, and boldness of my opener, and the fact she had a boyfriend. In the past i would have interpreted this as her not being into me. Now, I realize she just needed a few minutes to get warmed up.

I could have made her start opening up quicker by not asking the logical dumb question about what her shirt said. I could have said instead, “your shirt says new york on it. ever been there?"

- I got this weird feeling from my yes ladder. It felt too short. I think 3 questions is the optimal amount for a good yes ladder. - I also forgot to qualify her.
- I got too excited at a certain point. I need to focus on removing these bursts of weird excitement
- Was too in my head, and rushed things instead of being calm about it
- I’ve noticed how girls experience a reaction to my yes ladders.
- She was wondering what the main food was in paris - like it was on the tip of her tongue. This could have been a good opportunity for me to name the food properly and get a nice little emotional spike from her.

Approach 2 - Warm Reception

Two black HB6s pass in front of me. Girl 1 walks right by me. Girl 2 stops right in front of me and grabs Girl 1 to stop as well. A clear approach invitation. This happened so quick, and I was still in my head trying to analyze my previouus approaches. I jump in halfheartedly:

Me: you guys from around here?
Girl 1: we’re actually not. We’re from scarborough.
They’re both instantly receptive.

Me: ohh, i know what scarborough girls are like I’ve been to scarborough once, i fucking hated it
They standing there, looking at me, not saying anything. But they are hooked.

Me: It was just this one incident that happened that really turned me off of it. [staring into the distance] have you always lived here?
Girl 1: No I’m from montreal
She starts telling me about montreal:

Girl 1: There was a lot of racism there.
Me: Oh
Girl 1: Yeah and it’s a pretty boring city. It’s good if you wanna party but otherwise it sucks.
Me: I was thinking about living there but now I’m gonna give it a second thought.
I turn to Girl 2 and start talking to her:

Me: where are you from?
Girl 2: [seems a little shocked that i was talking to her, and gets nervous] scarborough
There is a little confusion here as I try to figure out if she’s always been from scarborough. She says she’s from dublin:

Girl 2: I’m from Dublin.
Me: get out [neutral face and vocal tone]
Girl 2: [seems shocked - probably took me too serious because of my vocal tone and face.]
Me: Ireland?
Girl 2: yes [starts telling me about it. when she moved here, she was born there blalbla]
Me: so are the stereotypes true?
Girl 2: [confused]
Me: like do they drink a lot there
Girl 2: [gets enthusiastic, she understands and starts telling me all about it]
There is some more conversation, and then i announce i am going to leave:

Me: im gonna get going soon
Girl 2: I like your eyes! [escalation window triggered by my time constraint]
Me: oh listen, i have a great idea. are you ready to hear it?
Girl 2: yes
Me: do you drink liquids?
Girl 2: Yes
Me: do i seem like a friendly person?
Girl 2: [really enthusiastic] Yes!
Me: alright how about we catch some drinks sometime?
Girl 2: Alright sounds good!
Me: [I have my phone out and I’m trying to get it ready so she can put her number in]
Girl 2: do you have snapchat?
Me: no [hands girl 2 the phone]
While she’s entering her number, I talk to Girl 1:

Girl 1: how old are you?
Me: how old do i look?
Girl 1: [can’t remember what she said.]
Me: im 26.
Girl 1: that’s not that bad.
Me: how old are you guys?
Girl 1: we’re 18
Girl 1: ya i had a feeling you were like 25
Me: thats surprising, i always get 17-18, especially in the states
Girl 1: [surprised]
Girl 2 hands me my phone back.

Me: valentina. nice to meet you. my names fog.
I continue talking with the girls about some shit, then I’m about to leave. Girl 2 goes to shake my hand but instead I touch her shoulder.

Post-Conversation Texting

I texted her immediately, afterwards:

Me: Hey valentina, this is fog, save my #
But as I started to think about the interaction, I felt as though I was a little bit unattainable and that my text itself continued to present myself as unattainable.

One hour later, she had not responded, so I sent her this:

Me: we should hang out sometime this week :)
This was last night, no response yet. Maybe I'll call her this week.

Analysis

I speculate that Girl 2 wanted to talk to me, but was too shy to give me a real approach invitation. So Girl 1 hadda do it. This was an unfortunate interaction because I was in my head the majority of the time trying to figure out what to say & and do next, how to properly execute my yes ladder, how to get out of conversation quickly with Girl 1 so i could start building rapport with Girl 2. etc etc. One big thing was positioning. At one point we were all in a triangle. I wanted to ask Girl 2 if she was single, and I felt like in order to do that I would have to move closer to her so I could whisper in her ear, lmfao.

Even though she liked me and I got her #, I made too many mistakes:

-I forgot to qualify.
- There were some parts where she got confused/shocked
- At the end i touched her instead of shaking her hand when she held it out. That could have been weird for her.
- I had a weird vibe. I wasn't warm.
- I did not have a sexual vibe
-Negativity
-Being too abrupt. After she told me she liked my eyes, this was the perfect opportunity to flirt with her and build some sexual tension. She would have melted into a puddle. Instead, I transitioned into a yes ladder
- Her friend was implicitly saying that she had experienced racism in montreal. Here would have been a great way to display some empathy.

I believe all of this made me too unattainable.

Approach 3 - Cold Reception

A HB7 was standing around with headphones on paying attention to her phone. I knew she was gonna blow me out.

I walk up to her. I shake my hand to get her attention. She glances at me and doesn’t seem to be receptive - she’s indifferent to me, and on the verge of ignoring me. I point at the ground like she’s dropped something. Now we’re holding eye contact. She takes her earphones out:

Her: I’m sorry?
Me: You single?
Her: No
Me: That’s alright.
Silence. She’s back to her indifferent non-verbals. Not sure what to say as all my planned strategy had left the building after I made the split second decision to point at the ground to try to get her to take her headphones out.

Me: What are you up to?
Her: I’m going home.
Me: You were at the mall?
Her: I’m sorry I’m talking to my friends.
I look at her phone. She’s not lying. She’s got whatsapp open. I eject.

After she said she was sorry i really should have tried something else, but i felt deflated.

Analysis

Bad game here. I’ll continue going in cold direct on HB7+s to purposely get blown out so I can figure out a way to get around this. I definitely need to work on the moments after the opener, but before she’s fully investing. Asking questions like this is not good if she’s not investing. I need to be more polarizing in situations like these. Asking what she’s up to is NOT gonna stir her emotions. I’ll work on some polarization strategies.

Approach 4 - Cold Reception

there was this HB5.5 with short orange hair, a choker on, and scars all over her arms. she looked grumpy as fuck lol. but it stll turned me on, because i felt like she would just love getting slapped and practically abused in bed, ya know?

She’s sitting down with earphones in. I go up to her and test for receptiveness. She gives me a grumpy as fuck look and takes out her earphones.

Me: you single?
Her: no [grumpy still]
Me: alright
Her: huh?
Me: what?
Her: [grumpy look intensifies, like I’m wasting her time. she puts earphones back in.]
Analysis

Once again, need to be polarizing.

Overall Improvements

I need to:

- Qualify girls after my yes ladder
- Try out polarization strategies for girls who are unreceptive and obviously uninterested
- Learn how to get girls investing in a smoother way. Right now my initial questions to get them investing are dumb and too logical.

There's so many other things I know i can do. But I'll focus on just these three things for my next few approaches.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,044
Location
ontario
Re: songbird fog talks about women

Summary

Today I go over 3 approaches in detail. I’ve been opening with yes ladders for fun. The growth I have been experiencing is insane. Not just my strategy of how to handle situations, but my understanding of how A) value and attainability are directly correlated with each other and B) how they apply to game

Approach 1

I was walking past the LCBO. Some HB7 latina came out of the LCBO and was walking in front of me. She did not notice me. i walk in front of her and shake my hand at her as I’m looking at her. She immediately makes eye contact. It’s a little abrupt, so i look away then look back. Her full attention is still on me.

I make sure to open with a mischievous vibe (I’m working to make this my default vibe) and downtones in my voice. I walk beside her as we are talking:

Fog: i got a quick question for you, are you ready to hear it?
Girl: yes! [shes hooked and mirroring my vibe]
Fog: okay. do you drink liquids?
Girl: like any kind of liquids?
Fog: yeah. like water or anything.
Girl: thats a weird question. [a little amused]
Fog: thats a weird answer.
We're smiling at each other.

Fog:: okay anyways. next question. do i seem like a friendly person?
Girl: whats with the weird questions?
Fog: whats with the terrible answers?
She’s not justifying herself. But she’s smiling a lot. I point it out:

Fog: i see the smile
her: [her non-verbals practically explode. lots of mouth movement. she smiles a lot more, is licking her lips and is getting pretty engaged. think there was some hair playing too]
At this point since shes refusing to invest so i decide to fall back and try for some small talk:

Fog: watcha up to?
Girl: I’m going to my friends house
Fog: oh ya? gonna drink a PHAT amount of alcohol? [said in a slighty raspy, slightly louder voice, with emphasis on phat.]
Girl: yeah i just went to the lcbo. what are you up to?
Fog: just getting home from work.
We are nearing the crosslight. I’m in my head trying to figure out what to do next. I start walking right through the crosslight as she turns to go left. She stops and says,

Girl: I’m turning here.
Fog: okay see you!
Analysis

She was emotionally investing (my yes ladder was probably polarizing to her), but was refusing to verbally comply with my questions. Instead she tried to get me to answer her questions. It would have been over if I had done this for 2 reasons: 1) i would be justifying myself 2) i would be investing more than her.

Instead, I deflected and threw the questions back at her. This presents a little risk normally - if she’s in auto rejection she could have been bitchy and said “just answer the question.” but she was not in auto rejection, and she knew it was flirting and saying something like that would ruin the fun vibe we had going on.

The “i see the smile” line was useful as a state amplifier in this case. I am going to start using these state amplifier lines for positive emotions more often. I have a hunch that they are useful before transitioning into going for verbal investment, but I am not sure….

I was happy with my decision to drop the yes ladder and try to gain investment and compliance using a different strategy. As soon as I dropped it, and transitioned to regular conversation she started investing.

I regret not stopping when she stopped. Man, she was cuteee! Things happened so fast and I was in my head trying to figure out what to do next

I’m unsure of what I should have said or done if I had stayed. Imagine I kept talking to her, built up a little more compliance, then tried out the exact same yes ladder again? Omg she probably would have flipped lol. Either way,

Approach 2

I was on my lunch break from work. I went outside to approach, but slacked the majority of my break due to approach anxiety. But then I noticed a two set of indian HB5s, standing beside a wall. When I saw them I spontaneously walked towards them without really thinking (to avoid my anxiety).

As I'm walking towards them, Girl 2 looks at me for a few moments. She turns around so that she is facing the wall. It’s a clear approach invitation and she is likely nervous. I make her my target.

Anyways, I stop as I’m walking by them. My body is turned away from them, and I throw out a reception signal. It takes a moment, but they are looking at me and they look a little confused. I do not believe I made strong eye contact at this point [a mistake]

Fog: Hey hows it going??? [very friendly vocal tone]
Girl 2s eyes are sparkling. It’s an insta-emotional hook (lmfao). But i can’t remember what they said.

Fog: im only here for a sec. just for a sec. I got a quick question to ask you. are you ready to hear it?
Girl 1: yes!
Fog. Okay. Do you drink liquids?
[they are confused. there is a pause]

Girl 2: Liquids? You mean like alcohol or...?
Fog: anything
Girl 2: ohhh yes we do.
Fog: [not sure exactly what i said here…i know i started saying something about being on the same page now but i definitely stumbled and just stopped. being on the same page is good - i should have touched girl 2 here]
Fog: okay next question….do i seem like a friendly person?
Girl 2: [very quickly] yes.
Fog: okay. how about we catch some drinks sometime?
Girls: *Laughing*
Girl 1: Is that a pickup line? Because that was good! [My attainability goes down and my value goes up]
Me: [holding eye contact with girl 2] [nervous hesitance – can’t figure out what to say] No i saw you and i thought that you were gorgeous [qualifier] but I don't have time to get to know you because i have to get back to work so i was gonna see if you wanted to go for drinks and actually get to know each other better [intentions clarified] [ATTAINABILITY RAISED, Value lowered]
Girl 1: Sorry i have a boyfriend! [her eyes are glowing, shes scrunched up reallly nervously, playing with her necklace]
I'm looking at both of them now.

Fog: oh is it serious?
Girl 1: yes we've been dating 3 years.
Fog: oh, im not gonna fuck with that then
Girl 1: *laughing*
Fog: have a good day see you
Analysis

- Funny how the girls thought my yes ladder was real gamey. Although my answer to “is that a pickup line?" was little long, I’m proud of myself for raising my attainability back up.

- I’ve noticed that when girls get nervous around me, they physically make themselves smaller and/or hide from me. I should have pointed this out to her and teased her about it. I wonder what she would have did?

Approach 3

I was doing some spam approaching at the mall, when I spotted two black HBs and two little children sitting on a bench. I can’t see what they look like. I walk around to the front of the bench. I notice the HBs are wearing the same colour so I say this:

fog: hey wouldnt it be great if these children were matching up like you guys?
I’m looking at them. Oh dear, one of them is an HB4 and the other HB is actually probably no more than 15, lol

Girls: huh no? [weird faces]
Fog: what? That’d be a great idea!
They are blowing me off.

fog: [to girl 2] you know what would be a good idea though?
Girl 2: what
fog: australia shouldn't exist! lets remove it from the earth!
Girl 2: [amused, but she’s trying to ignore me by paying attention to her phone]
fog: and replace it with a nail salon! isn’t that a good idea?
Girl 2: yea [amused, but still only half paying attention and not giving me much of an answer]
fog: [at this point I’m not sure what to do - so i self destruct] i have another idea but i dont think you wanna hear it [i get weird and walk away]
Girls: [Looking at me like I’m the strangest thing]
Analysis

This was terrible because of 3 things that happened in my initial approach:

- I didn’t throw out a reception test
- I had the weird spam approach vibe on, that girls really don’t like.
- I talked about kids.

The combination of all these three things immediately put them on edge and made me seem like a creepy weirdo.
Despite the blow off, I’m relatively confident I could have turned this around quite easily. My comment about Australia and the nail salon was polarizing and got her emotionally investing. All i needed to do was point out her amusement and then do a total 180 and hit her with some normal conversation to gain verbal investment. Something like “hey whats up"
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
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Location
ontario
Re: songbird fog talks about women

Girl Negs Me At Grocery Store

I’m standing in line at the grocery store waiting to check out. There are two very old women talking in loud voices behind me. They are arguing with each other. I think it’s a little silly that they are talking so loud. Probably have bad hearing.

It’s my turn to check out. I throw on my mischievous smile and make eye contact with the cashier. She returns the smile and says this to me:

Her: Are you tired?
Fog: why do you ask?
Her: You look tired!
WTF? Idk if she was testing my frame or if this was a neg….it was weird. I tell her I went to bed 10 minutes late last night and she starts being all charming and witty.

So then, 1 of the old ladies behind me puts a box in my shopping cart and tells me to use it. I look at her. We make eye contact and she changes her position, asking me if i need it. I shake my head no. She takes it out, then immediately starts trying to build rapport with me over the strawberries I bought.

Hangin With Crow

I went for lunch with crow this weekend. She’s an old friend of mine who is one of the warmest people I’ve ever met. It’s been a while since I’ve seen her.

Traditionally she has viewed me as cute [harmless] but this time was different. She was getting turned on at some points. I woulda banged her but she’s got a serious boyfriend.

I’m working qualifying and screening into my conversations with women who are attracted to me and observing their reactions to see if theres an increase in attraction afterwards. Crow is an actor, and I asked her this:

Fog: are you a good actor?
She seemed shocked when I asked her that! I forget what she said. It was probably a little too abrasive and uncalibrated.

Later on, I was finishing my food. She had been done for a bit and I could tell by her body language that she was restless. So I paced her:

Fog: I’m done, lets get out of here, I know you’re restless.
Crow: [laughing]
Fog: what? :)
Crow: youre charming :)
So attraction was amplified after I paced her, but why? I remember using pacing a lot earlier this summer, but definitely don’t remember women liking it as much as crow did. Is this just an example thats an outlier? I don’t think so.

The better your fundamentals are, the better game techniques work on women. And my fundamentals have improved a lot this summer.

Also, crow kept looking at my muscles, which ive noticed is typical of more and more women lately when I’m talking to them. I’m trying to figure out something chase framey to say when this happens….In this case, I said this:

Fog: hey! eyes up here.
Crow *attracted look*
I want to be a warm person, so I observed her behaviour to see what i could pick up from her. When our food was served, she gave me my cutlery first. This was a nice little lesson. If you want to be warm, then other people’s needs come before yours.

Witch Girl + Qualifying Mistakes

This is a mistake that I will no longer be making after this talk with witch i had. In the past, I’ve definitely qualified myself to girls without knowing (which resulted in a loss of attraction). One of the more trickier situations is when I ask a girl for compliance, and then she tries to qualify me. This is a trap - after I qualify, her attraction expires and she does not comply.

Girls subconsciously know that compliance tests are what guys use to move things forward. So girls will throw up a roadblock in the form of a qualification as a test to try to prevent things from moving forward. This doesn’t logically make sense. If you don’t meet the qualification, then she obviously shouldn’t comply. If you meet the qualification, then she obviously should comply. But emotionally, this is not the case. Maybe this is a double bind.

So anyways, Witch and I had been chatting. But we fell out of touch for a week, so I pinged her again. I warmed her up and got her intrigued with a yes ladder. Then this qualification trap happened:

Thursday
Fog: I have some extra senses
Witch: what kind of extra senses? psychic senses? or spidey senses?
Fog: Text me. xxx-xxx-xxxx [note: this was probably too much compliance to ask from her without a justification]
Witch: already [objection 1]
Witch: do you have the ability to cast a spell on me :)
Fog: *eye roll*
Witch: *sly face*
Fog: ur too chicken to text before marriage :)
Witch: guess its not really that big of a deal, I’m just paranoid about weirdos tbh
Fog: but i thought guys who send you 10 unsolicited texts a day and vomit their feelings on you and act were were totally your type [i know this was a weird response to her objection]
She stops replying quickly so I go to bed. I wake up on Friday morning and to see she had replied to me after i went to bed:

Witch: i like clingy but only when I’m into you as well [rejecting my frame/reframing]
Witch: what’s your sign? :) i need to know before i text you [her qualifier]
Friday
Fog: It’s in my bio [i actually do have my sign in my bio.]
Saturday
Witch: fuk that it is
Fog: .
I put a period to be low effort and to try to get her to say more. That was a dumb strategy. I was thinking more and realized my mistake regarding her qualifier. I believed that, in order to counteract this, I had to show her I was not taking her attempted qualification serious. So I changed the sign in my bio and messaged her again on sunday:

Sunday
Fog: look at my new sign
No reply from her yet. Anyways, one of the biggest issues was a loss of momentum - the time period this whole conversation was happening over was too long.

I think not taking a women's qualification seriously is one of the better ways to handle it.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

LR-: an easy submissive girl

I met Whiplash on Tinder. After some periodic banter and connection building that took place over the course of 2 weeks, she asked this question:

Whiplash: Do you have snapchat?
Fog: yes i do
Whiplash: Add me? username
Fog: already!?
Whiplash: lol its easier to talk on there?
Fog: guess its not really that big of a deal, I’m just paranoid about weirdos tbh
Whiplash: lol im not too weird. but if i am you could always block me
Fog: okay true. whats your sign? i need to know before i add you
Whiplash: *laughing face emoji* astrology sign? aqaurious. wbu?
Fog: depends on the day
Fog: add me: username
Here I purposely put out some resistance. After she overcame it, I made her qualify herself to me before giving her my handle. I thought it was hilarious. This should cement her firmly in a chasing position, right?

She adds me then messages me on snap:

Whiplash: hey
Fog: hey :) i must say I’m stoked to see more of your playful witty self
Whiplash: or read more of it
Fog: lmfao you are impressing me so far
Since she was a good girl and jumped through my hoops, I felt it was necessary to reward her with a behavioural sort of compliment. She replied to this by being more witty, so i rewarded her again with a chase frame that gives her incentive to keep trying (so far).

Fog: so what do you do for fun anwyays
Whiplash: draw. have friends over. paint
Whiplash: wbu?
Fog: trespass
Whiplash: wow rebel
Fog: lol :)
Whiplash: where?
Fog: how about i take you and show you
Whiplash: sorry. i got distracted. my sister sent me pictures of my dog
Whiplash: im not a sneaky person
Fog: everyone has a sneaky side to them. thats okay though, we will go do something :) go for coffee nd get to know each other a lil better
Whiplash: thats more manageable. plus id father wait to find my sneaky side until it cools down [ in my frame]
Fog: i melt into a puddle whenever i go outside lately
Whiplash: hot
Whiplash: i just evaporate
Whiplash: what do you do?
Fog: mostly blondes, but i think you might just do
Whiplash: *eye roll emoji* you a student?
Fog: no, i work in digital marketing. I’m so passionate about it, i feel real lucky.
Whiplash: oh neat
Whiplash: its good to do something youre passionate about
Fog: passion makes everything better, doesnt it?
Whiplash: definitely makes it worth any struggles you have
Fog: what about you? what do you do?
Fog: brb shower
Whiplash: im a student. I’m studying ____ at ____
Whiplash: enjoy your shower
Fog: thats actually so sick whiplash! how’re you liking it so far
Whiplash: lol its challenging and time consuming but its good
Whiplash: have my FAVORITE CLASS today. which is exciting
Fog: i would love to talk fashion with you later when i get back from the gym :)
Whiplash: lol. no work today? [trying to screen?]
Fog: work? huh? never heard of such a thing
Whiplash: still havent. you’ve only read about it
Fog: lmfao im glad you said that ahhahaha
Whiplash: well i aim to please
Fog: oh so youre actually trying to impress me….well like i said earlier youre doing a excellent job so far :) [if i had said this in person, i would have put emphasis on “actually” and “me”]
Whiplash: lol i jsut dont want to be super boring
Fog: ever have a boring conversation with someone? those people suck eh
Whiplash: i think everyone can be boring
Whiplash: but it depends on what the conversation is about
Fog: true
Fog: I’m going now!
Whiplash: toodles
Later that night, she sends me a snap of her face. The caption is “bored.” This is an escalation window obviously. I decide to use an arousal based compliment to try to heat things up a little:

Fog: your lips are really sexy :)
Whiplash: lol yeah
Whiplash: *kissy face* thx
Fog: whatre your plans for tonight/tomorrow
Whiplash: chilling at home tonight
Fog: oh ya? do you have roommates?
Whiplash: no
Fog: lets chill
Whiplash: ehhhh
Whiplash: i dont know you
Whiplash: its weird to have people over
Whiplash: that i dont know
Whiplash: and I’m in my pjs
Whiplash: ;P ;P ;P
Whiplash: but soon definitely
Fog: no pressure, you can kick me out if you get uncomfortable, and we can get to know each other better.
I thought it was interesting how, when I asked her what her plans were for tonight/tomorrow, she only replied what she was doing tonight. And she got pretty pointed when I asked her about her roommates. So to me, it’s obvious that she wanted to chill, and she was just giving me token resistance.

Whiplash: im not into hooking up or anything FYI is that okay
Hahah, it’s on now. I send her a snap of me shirtless.

Whiplash: those fucking pants though
Whiplash: *bunch of emojis*
She sends me a picture of her sticking out her tongue

Fog: who said anything about us hooking up
Whiplash: lol just wanted to be upfront about it
Fog: glad you like my pants. so what area do you live in?
Whiplash: by ____
Whiplash: wby
Fog: pretty close to me …. I’m in _____
Fog: i can be there in 30 minutes
Whiplash: oh cool. i was there the other day.
Whilash: Sure
Whiplash: its a mess and so am i *laughing face emoji*
Whiplash: my address is ____
Fog: haha! we can be a mess together, send me your # and ill text you when I’m there/if i get lost.
i show up at her apartment building and ring the buzzer. She answers and I speak into the intercom:

Fog: hows it going? [friendly vocal tone]
Whiplash: good how’re you?? [mimics my vocal tone]
I get up to her apartment and we’re hanging out on the couch. The tests are starting - they’re teases mostly based around my facial features. I just ignore them and soon, my dick magically ends up in her mouth. After we hooked up, she got really submissive. Honestly, I’ve never seen a girl be so submissive before. She was just like a little kid. She kept gushing over how she liked my eyes, nose… and jaw….….which I found really amusing, because she was just saying how much she hated my face a while back! lol girls are silly. I made sure to kiss her as a reward every time she complimented me.

She was being a little annoying by flicking my nipple, so I told her if she did it one more time I was going to put my shirt back on. Well she did it again so I put my shirt back on, and she got really whiny and started complaining.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Screening & Qualifying: A Form of Female Resistance

Understanding WHY Women Screen & Qualify

When a girl is screening you, it’s to find out if you are the kind of guy she’s looking for/what value you can provide to her. Women feel the instinctual need to screen you because if they don’t, then they could end up with a bad mate who doesn’t meet their needs. It's a mild form of resistance that women put out to prevent things from moving forward with an inadequate mate. This is a technique used primarily by women. Guys don’t normally verbally screen because they are primarily interested in explicit value - a women’s looks - which only requires passive screening.

Qualifying is the other side of the equation. Qualifying is when women let you know if you’ve met their screens or not, and if you provide value to her or not. Her qualification comes after your answer to her screen. She can qualify you verbally or in her head.

Although screening gives women the information to determine if a guy is a good potential mate, it’s bad for guys on the receiving end of a screen who want to get women into bed quickly. This is for several reasons:

1) Screening and qualifying make the person who is using it higher value
2) The more you answer screens directly, the more they can place you into a box of the role you will play in their life - which could possibly be a role you do not want to play - like the boyfriend zone!
3) Answering screens directly related to your intentions can reduce the sexual tension in an interaction.
4) She is baiting you into expressing explicit value. You should always aim to express your value implicitly.

So, the less you directly answer a girls screens until after you’ve slept with her, then the better.

Mindsets She Screens & Qualifies From

There is only one motive as to why a girl is screening and qualifying you before you’ve slept with her: she’s considering sleeping with you. However, the mindset she is screening you from varies. Here are two potential mindsets:

Mindset 1: She’s feeling that you are more powerful and in control than her. If this is the case, she will instinctively throw up some resistance by screening and trying to qualify you on it, so she can take back some control and prevent things from moving forward. She wants your attainability to raise and your value to drop.

Mindset 2: She’s feeling that she is more powerful and in control than you. But she can’t be sure of your value until she tests you. So she will instinctively throw up some resistance in the form of screening & qualifying to try to discover if her feelings are true or not.

In the next section, I cover a technique that will help you answer her screens when she is in mindset 1.

A Tactic To Answer Her Screens

Effectively answering a women’s screens can be tough. If you qualify to her screen, you are bowing to her, causing her to possibly gain the upper hand (you’re trying too hard to impress her). If you disqualify yourself to her screen, she auto rejects - you are not who she is looking for - your attainability goes down. Deflecting her screen is not much better either. Your value remains unknown, which will not move the interaction forward at all, causing her to keep testing you.

Tactic 1: Invitational Compliance Request + Time Delay

Girl: are you good at cooking?
Guy: we should make a meal together, and you can tell me.
This tactic gives her a logical answer that will help her overcome her inner emotions. The logic behind this answer is this: how can she truly find out if you’re good at cooking if she doesn’t try it out herself?

The advantages of this tactic are:

1. that you put off answering the screen to the future, while inviting her to find out for herself if it’s true or not. This throws up a hoop up for her: in order to find out if you truly qualify or not, she has to invest more of her time in you. This keeps things stabilized so that she will have to keep testing you to try to gain control or she can simply submit
2. You’re not actively trying to impress her, thus not chasing at all.
3. Cooking a meal for her is an implicit display of value.
4. As previously mentioned, the other advantage is that you give her what she needs for attainability and value. You’re implying your interest in continuing the interaction, and implying a connection has been built between you two [by using the word ‘we] which gives you an attainability boost and a value drop. If she agrees to your compliance request, your value is maintained and your attainability is raised. So, an overall net increase in attainability and a decrease in value happens here.

How She Will Act

There will be a spike in attraction (or basically, an excited & enthusiastic reaction to you moving into an attainability sweet spot), leading to an escalation window: girls will actively try to move things forward with you after this, or they will be very open to complying and moving things forward with you (because you passed their resistance in a suitable way). It’s important to lead right after this. If this is the very beginning of the interaction before you have built a connection, you will notice that the girl will start hounding you with questions - they are eager to build a connection with you to increase their comfort levels with you so they can allow themselves to sleep with you.

When Women Qualify You Without Prior Screening

Sometimes you will find girls randomly verbally qualifying you [example: saying, “I like this guy!” to her friends in front of you] when they haven’t been verbally screening you. In this case, they have been passively screening you in their head. Now, they are purposely allowing themselves to move things forward with you. This is a huge escalation window. You are in a nice window of attainability when this happens.

Instead of verbally screening you, they passively screen you, then verbally qualify you to let you know they’ve been passively screening you. If they didn’t verbally qualify you like this, then you wouldn’t know they’ve been screening you…..and girls want you to know when they’re screening you.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

hmmm, things are really heating up around here

i’ve been really nailing down my screening & qualification process/structure, and so far i’ve been seeing excellent results. it’s like ive cracked some sort of code or something, because when i use this structure, every girl instantly warms up emotionally and we start having a lot of fun. It feels super good.

im gonna need to experiment more with the exact steps, but here’s how it works:

fog: what do you do for fun? [screening, asking for investment]
girl: im a birdwatcher. [investing]
fog: birdwatching is totally underrated. its not too often i meet a birdwatcher. [rewarding investment by making her hobby seem valuable]
girl: i know right! barely anyone does it
fog: you gotta be patient to be a birdwatcher. most people would get restless doing something like that [screening, and baiting her into qualifying by contrasting]
girl: i am very patient! [qualifying to me]
fog: thats awesome :) i definitely want to hear more now. [qualifying her]
Gotta throw some relating in there somehow…yesterday i ran this on a girl who was into writing, but didnt relate to her at all until she turned the conversation back on me. I told her I do writing too, and she was shocked.

I’m gonna work some teasing and chase framing in as well…hopefully this will unlock their full attraction for me :)
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Tape

Things are shaping up to be possibly an easy lay with a girl I met recently called Tape.

I changed my tinder bio to “swipe left if you use condoms.” to try to screen in some girls who are definitely DTF. Well I matched with Tape, and in her tinder bio it says… “waffles or pancakes?” which I can only assume to be a morning after joke. Hmmm.

Since Ambiance has been getting so much success with his tinder opener recently, I decided to use it:

816AM
Fog: you are way too tempting i almost cant have you around me rn

11:17AM
girl: whats stopping you then
fog: lack of physical presence
I’ve started coming to the realization that I need to be moving waaay faster on tinder. I sent the convo to Hector [what she really meant] and he told me I should have asked for her address instead. I decided to text her this 4 hours later, and was met with some resistance, which is not surprising considering i failed the window.

3:16PM
fog: whats ya address
girl: why do you want to know my address
fog: the reason why is because its amazing that you prefer dog pics over dick pics! i respect that about you and the reason i think its amazing is cuz i dont like hanging with girls who look at dick pics from random dudes all day. but even though thats cool, I’m curious to discover in person if theres other impressive qualities to you than just that
I interpreted “why do you want to know my address” as, “why do you wanna fuck me?” so i qualified her [probably too cheesy and high effort] on some arbitrary shit based on the only other line in her tinder bio, “i accept dog pics not dick picks"

9:40PM
girl: ahhhh yeah i like seeing dogs. so if I’m always on my phone thats why lol
girl: weird question but were you at the gym today at _____?
This was crazy. I was at the gym at around noon, and there was this girl who was very persistently staring me down with sparkly eyes and a semi-intimidated/apprehensive look. Turns out that this girl was Tape! So we had been talking on tinder, then saw each other at the gym, but we didn’t know this until later. What a coincidence.

With this in mind, it really changed things and I wasn’t sure how to handle it. Based on her behaviour at the gym I assumed that she possibly felt I was slightly unattainable. And then, once she made the connection between real me and digital me, i possibly became slightly more attainable because A) she shut me down on getting her address, and B) i qualified her.

fog: dogs are the best
fog: actually yes i was omg i remember you couldnt keep your eyes off me :) youre darn cute
girl: they really are
girl: ahaha as bad as this is i realized like 20 minutes ago you were there today
fog: this is like the biggest coincidence ever, or maybe not. but either way it’s just crazy isn’t it?
girl: ahaha yeah it’s pretty crazy
I wonder if the chase frame and compliment was necessary.

Also, I wasn’t sure whether to try to qualify her again, but it’s tinder and she probably just wants to fuck. So I said fuck it.

fog: so i have an idea. are you ready to hear it?
girl: im so ready to hear it
fog: well…you drink liquids right?
girl: yes i do
fog: we should go for a drink cuz you seem cool
girl: aww yeah id be up for that
girl: I’m curious to know are you actually XX years old?
Huh. I look young, so I’m wondering if this was the reason behind her screen.

fog: ahah uh oh 20 questions huh? yea I’m XX
girl: ahhaa yup. okayy
fog: okay so whats your schedule like for later today/tomorrow
I used to ask what their schedule was like over the next week - but now I am always trying to go for a same-day or next-day date.

girl: for today, I’m headed out soon with some friends for a couple of hours then going to the gym afterwards. and then tomorrow I’m free all day
fog: okay tomorrow works for me. how about we meet at ____ at __. its real close to ___
girl: works for me
fog: great ill msg you tomorrow a few hours before. have fun with your friends
girl: okayy. thank you
A few mistakes made, but that’s alright. Reading through this conversation, it doesn’t seem like she’s overly interested at all...she's not really showing any emotion or saying anything risky. cocky me thinks she’s trying to play it safe so she doesn’t make herself seem too easy to get after what happened at the gym/she doesnt wanna scare me off.

So everythings set up for tomorrow. I can't wait to dominate this girl so bad
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Tape: Escalation Problems

So I was just chillin with Tape at a coffee shop near my place. She was very nervous. Closed off body language the whole time, was picking at her clothing, and her nails and stuff. we'd hold eye contact then she'd look away shyly. She opened up near the end and started being more expressive. I made sure to mirror her vocal tones and expressions.

Then, all of a sudden out of nowhere she seemed sort of uncomfortable and was looking out the window. This was shortly after I held her hand, joking I was a palm writer instead of a palm reader. Time to pull.

So I say "let's go for a walk." She readily agrees. we leave and she's being way more expressive. We walk to a dog park down the street, cuz she loves dogs. Except there's no dogs there. Earlier in the date I had seeded the pull - I told her I have a funny picture of a dog at my house. So I launched into a poorly-planned yes ladder, which is where everything derailed. It's a little bit fuzzy:

Fog: do you wanna keep chilling?
Tape: uhmmm well...*checks her phone*
Fog: since theres no dogs here we can go see the blue dog at my house.
Tape: I have to go do some homework.
Fog: it will only take two seconds and then we can leave.
Tape: you can just send me pictures
Fog: but its better in person, plus I have no pictures.
Tape: but i have to be up at 5am and I wanna get my homework done.
Fog: it will only be two seconds! Plus in the time we've stood here, we could have gone to my house and been back already. Here, let's go stand over here.
We move over a few steps..

Tape: I'll come see it another day
Fog: It's better to come see it now. I literally live 2 seconds away. Let's go.
I start walking but she doesn't walk with me!

Tape: I promise I'll come see it another day
Fog: Pinky swear?
Tape: ya
We do a pinky swear, building up more compliance (but, I'm falling into her frame). She keeps objecting and groaning "Noooooo". Yet she's still hanging around, instead of body rocking and threatening to leave. I tell her a funny story to try to change her mood real quick, then try again. Nope. I try to build more compliance, but she rejects my attempts at compliance and is getting increasingly grumpy (auto rejection). It was like I was dealing with a little kid. She starts walking away after telling me to message her later. I walk with her.

Tape: why are you still walking with me? [grumpy]
Fog: I have to say goodbye! Give me a hug
Tape: *hesitates, but hugs me*
It was so annoying. This was the first time I ever pushed really hard like this. I can definitely see where I went wrong - I kept trying to provide plausible deniability, when I should have tried a different angle - qualifying her and telling her i wanted to keep spending time with her, and addressing the underlying emotions - we don't have to do anything you dont wanna do at my place!

Fuuuck. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out my next move - I wouldn't mind seeing her again. Since she's in auto-rejection I messaged her this, using "The Turnaround Formula.

Fog: hey, i realize i made you grumpy cuz you felt like i wasnt being very understanding when you said you had to get going. It wasn’t my intentions to make you feel that way! I wanted to keep spending time with you cuz you’re fun to be around, easy to talk to and so cute n silly. Are we cool?
Tape: yeah it's all good
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Persistently Dominant & Confident

A few days before I hung out with Tape, I was starting to feel my aggression and confidence waxing. But after my hard push with Tape, these feelings have skyrocketed to new levels I have never experienced before, and it is seeping out through my presence.

When I started getting more jacked, women started being more drawn to my presence, like I was a magnet. However, today it was like I was a black hole. I have never experienced reactions so strong to me like this.

A 70 year old granny approached me and blabbed my fucking head off. Then I qualified her, and she asked for my number. Lmaooo.

I am so eager to make women submit to me. The looks scale doesn't even matter anymore, all that matters is...will you submit to me or not? All I see when I look at women are submissive creatures!

I never *truly* understood the need for compliance until today. I did understand, but I didn't understand in a way that truly made sense to me: compliance is testing for submissiveness, and if a girl complies, she is being submissive to me. So since i am eager to make women submit, i am going to get them to comply with me over and over again.

I've started actively offering women information bout myself in my sets - I am hoping this will reduce the extremely flaky numbers I am getting.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Walking a Tightrope With Pond

I met Pond on tinder back in May, and we're hanging out tomorrow. We fell out of contact for a bit [i messed up], then things really picked up recently between us. Her last message to me was, "is this a date?" I really have no clue what to say to this. Part of me wants to take the risk and say yes, and the other part of me wants to play it safe and keep a wider frame. Keeping a wider frame would give her the attainability and emotions she needs, while not killing the mystery of it all....

Anyways, I'm posting some parts of our conversation between us and analyzing them:

fog: so we are chilling tomorrow
pond: huh
fog: u heard me
fog: we gonna fuck some shit up
next day
pond: hey sorry i dont like using this app much
fog: lmfao its fine
fog: i think its attractive that you're so improvement oriented. barely anyones like that! the reason i find it attractive is because people who are self improvement oriented are way more fun and positive to be around, and even though thats cool, I'm curious to discover if there's more to you than just that. that why i wanna hang.
pond: oh wow I'm very flattered
pond: thats probably one of the best compliments someone can get honestly
pond: i just wasnt sure youre looking for anything "more" based on your bio [my bio says, "swipe left if you use condoms"]
fog: i *almost* thought the same thing about you based on your bio. but in all honesty I'm purely looking to get to know you better and then see where it goes based on that
pond: youre right
pond: then shall we speak elsewhere
fog: yes we should. but before we do that i need to know youre horoscope sign :)
pond: im a pisces
pond: you?
fog: a pisces?!!! omg i cant keep talking to you now :)
pond: is that real lmao
pond: whats wrong with pisces :/
fog: im kidding around. I'm a pisces too!
fog: text me xxx-xxx-xxxx
So during this time was when I started using more qualification in my game. It was really beneficial in this case - the issue leading up to this point was that I had NEVER qualified her, yet kept asking her to hang out. So she liked me, but thought I just wanted to fuck. Basic mistake lol.

So when I qualified her, her attraction increased for me. She presented her objection that she was under the impression that I just wanted to fuck [as I mentioned above], meaning she'd open to moving things forward if I were to overcome her objection. I overcame her objection by widening the frame, and there was another little spike in her interest - she suggested we move things forward by moving the conversation off tinder.

The hilarious move here was that I met her compliance suggestion with a silly compliance demand & qualifier. After she complied and qualified herself, I pushed her away in a really joking way, but then built up some brief similarity before rewarding her with my number. She texted me, I noticed another spike in interest from her:

pond: hi fog :)
pond: my actual names pond river btw or pond for short
pond: whens your birthday
fog: hey :) my actual names ____
fog: and its may 24, wbu
pond: oh wow we have a lot in common its actually kinda weird
pond: and mines may 27
fog: we do....makes me wonder what other commonalities we'll find between us as we keep talking.
pond: me too
next day
pond: ok [going into auto rejection]
So we've established 2 very small things in common. Same sign and close birthdays. Yet she's treating it like we have a lot in common - its almost ridiculous. I'm beginning to see this is typical girl behaviour after i overcome resistance....they try to find similarity with me in anything i present and make it a bigger deal than it actually is, so they can allow things to rapidly move forward.

I rewarded her again - by putting a time frame on things, and saying we are going to keep talking.

I didn't get back to her after she got back to me. I was out daygaming and shit, I thought we were in a good place and I could just get back to her whenever. But she obviously went into auto rejection a little bit - I managed to get her out using the turnaround formula:

Pond: ok
fog: hey i realize you felt ignored. i didnt mean to make you feel that way, ive been really exhausted from work lately. youre a really genuine person and i like talking with you. are we cool?
pond: its alright no worries
fog: so ya pisces are really stubborn eh
pond: yeah they are
pond: are you
She started investing again, and we were out of the hole. We continued talking over a few days time and I kept on qualifying her. I asked her to hang out. She agreed. Then, this happened:

fog: sunday afternoon at 1ish?
pond: sounds like a plan
pond: do you smoke
fog: smoke what
pond: crack?
fog: only with cute girls
fog: my turn: do you eat?
fog: ass
pond: only the black ones over 65
fog: oh, so youre not picky. good to know :)
pond: ive decided to only say yes this year
fog: lmfao we are outta control right now
pond: lmao i know
pond: is this like a date?
This little banter between us made me feel bad. I was really challenging and brash, and sorta made her look bad. When I turned it around on her, she completely fell into my frame. I had a feeling that this reduced my attainability. So I figured I'd take care of her emotions and bring my attainability back up by making an us vs. the world sorta statement.

then bam, she's asking if it's a date?! things were pretty smooth sailing up until this point, and now she's thrown me off. she's practically asking what my intentions are.

If I say yes, then i get slotted in the boyfriend zone, which could slow down possible intimacy between us. I actually would consider dating this girl - shes girlfriend quality. Also, what if I say yes and then she's like, "well I'm not looking for a boyfriend right now"...then I'd have to do all sorts of reframing to get her to hang with me which would just make me look needy and chasey. But like, saying yes could get me into a real nice attainability sweet spot if she wants a date.

On the other hand, setting a wide frame like, "i haven't figured it out yet. but im really having a good time getting to know you and i think youre having a good time getting to know me too. so let's just get together and see what happens between us :)." would keep me out of the boyfriend zone. Its also less risky if shes not looking for a boyfriend. It still gives me more attainability, but not enough so that she feels 100% comfortable. It doesn't kill any mystery. My only concern is....after all these emotions I've put her through, doesn't she deserve to hear a yes from me?
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

The Bratty Blowout

I saw these two girls. I walk up to them. It’s a brunette HB5 and a blond HB6.5. The HB6.5 is one of those barbie type girls…she probably thinks she’s an 8. i open:

Fog: you guys look bratty.
I am holding eye contact with the blonde. No one is saying anything. Then, the tension breaks and she starts giggling. She’s looking at me quite sexually. I look at the brunette - her mouth is literally hanging open in shock. coulda been mock shock, but it seemed legit

This was where i fucked it all up. I was in with the blonde, all I had to do was leap into a conversation….but instead, I made some stupid fucking tease.

Fog: you know if you guys stand there not saying anything, people will think you're a mannequin [addressing them both]
HB5: you can’t just walk up to people and call them brats when you don’t even know them! You’ll hurt their feelings.
Fog: Oh, no!! It wasn’t my intention to hurt your feelings. [in a justifying vocal tone]
After I said this, the blonde does a massive purposeful takeaway, and takes 3-4 huge steps backwards. It’s over, and I eject. It all happened so fast!

I know how I messed up, but the extremely different reactions from the both of them were very interesting to me. To the brunette, it was too polarizing for her. For the blonde, it was just polarizing enough to get her interested in me.

Training Wheels

I am having a good time approaching and practising on hotter girls lately. They have different behaviour than less attractive girls. It’s tough to explain…they have a really cool vibe towards me, and they’re actually fun to flirt with because they know what I’m there for, and they’re not afraid of it. They have a better understanding of what game is, and they do stuff purposely to get a gauge on me - like trying to get me to jump through hoops, doing takeaways when i say something i dont like, etc.... and this shit is happening in the daytime? wtf

Walking a Tightrope with Pond - Ct’d

so some very interesting shit has been happening with pond. she ended up flaking, and we rescheduled for wednesday. i pulled a trick in a conversation we had recently that has firmly cemented me as the one in charge.

Here’s where it left off:

Pond: is this like a date?
13 hours later
fog: i havent figured that out yet…but I’m having a lot of fun getting to know you and I’m looking forward to meeting you, and i think youre feeling the same way. so let’s just get together and see what we can figure out together :)
pond: lmaao that was a long ass answer just to say you don’t know
fog: *eye roll*
There was three problems with my answer: 1) I took way too long to answer her and frame things, so that caused resistance. I’ve noticed that when I hesitate on framing an interaction, it causes the girl to throw me resistance 2) it didn’t really move things forward at all between us, which is what she wanted 3) it actually was too long...

She busted my balls over being too effortful, so i counteracted that by blowing it off nonverbally with an eye roll. I passed this test, because she moved things forward afterwards:

pond: i dont mind it tho
pond: i like ur long responses
pond: better than the dry shit I’m used to
As I mentioned she flaked on sunday due to being sick, but she took an active role in rescheduling:

pond: how does wednesday sound
me: wednesday works for me
me: wouldnt it be cool if we found a jazz/blues show to go to! [rewarding her for rescheduling]
pond: that’d be my ideal date
pond: like actually
me: which circumstance would you find more ideal on this ideal date: hanging out in the back where it’s quieter or in the front where its loud af
pond: oh wait its not a date
pond: and i guess in the back?
pond: what would you prefer?
pond: I’m literally listening to some duke ellington atm
I’m screening her to find out what her perfect date looks like. But it’s ambiguous in the way that I could possibly be framing our hang out as a date. So she says, “oh wait its not a date.” which is interesting to me. It’s like she was subtly trying to get me to clarify my frame. Anyways, I decide to widen my frame from “we’ll see if it’s a date” to this:

me: it will be a date if it lasts longer than 30 minutes and if i like you :)
pond: pressures on
This frames me as the one in charge - now she is feeling pressure to impress me when we meet up!

pond: you didnt answer though
me: about if i prefer the back or the front
pond: yea
me: i prefer wherever is best for building a connection
pond: same here
me: im glad we’re in the same mindset!
There’s some subtle stuff going on here too. Her frame around hanging out in the back or front was very specific: she likes hanging in the back. My frame is wider - it doesnt matter, as long as a connection can be built. She says "same here", thus falling into my frame. I rewarded her for it.

I like these little small details. They make a big difference
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

You're Cute Like a Lil Watermelon

I am opening direct lately, but with a twist - I include a simile. I compare her cuteness to something random. The results are pretty nice, especially when i tell them theyre cute like a little watermelon. it's pretty polarizing and they nearly always start giggling

Introvert or Extrovert?

One of the questions I was asking to launch into a conversation was "what do you do for fun?" which I believe was suggested by Tony D. But I wasn't getting nice results from it. A lot of girls would give me bland answers...

So now I ask the girl if she's more of an introvert or extrovert, and it gets girls investing more. It's easy to ask them why. It's easy for me to cold read what their life what is like as an introvert or extrovert. I can very easily relate to it. And, If I like their behaviors, I can qualify them on it.

Stupid Cockblocking

I get cockblocked a lot in 2 sets. When my target shows interest, her friend walks right in and forces the target to leave with her. So I think I will experiment with doing some isolation.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Rooting My Interactions To Increase Comfort

I learned a new technique recently that has been very helpful in increasing comfort in my interactions and preventing girls from running off after I open them. It’s called rooting. Rooting is when you give a reason for why you approached her, and then you give her a reason for why you wanna keep talking to her.

When I approach a girl, she’s thinking….whys he here…what’s he want from me….and why me? Rooting answers all those questions. Now she understands why the conversation is starting, and why its continuing.

Today I had a killer set. I approached her by asking her what it said on her shirt (rooting the approach). The conversation continued, and I was really starting to ramp up the flirting with her after I noticed considerable interest from her. I said, “I think you’re too young for me” which was completely silly, because she’s a year older than me. But right after that comment, she tried to eject, even though she was still giving me IOIs. The reason was that I didn’t root my flirting, and so she immediately got uncomfortable - she felt like I was hiding something.

recent qualification observations

I’ve been putting a lot of considerable thoughts into what i wanna screen girls for…i really like girls who are driven and feminine….and this can lead to a bunch of sub qualities that I can screen a girl on..

but the most important part of all this has to do with congruence, which I am finding to be a really big flaw in my game….i think that MAYBE congruence is the missing piece of the puzzle that will help me get a little bit more success with girls. in the past ive done dumb things like told a girl who is in criminology that i dont meet a lot of girls who wanna do that…which is BULLSHIT, i meet girls who are in crim all the time actually. and that’s incongruence. they can spot this shit from a mile away.

a few days ago i met a girl who was in school to be a teacher and we were vibing pretty well. everything was going so smoothly due to the fact that nurturing behaviours are ACTUALLY stuff i like! and when i find a girl like that, i have genuine enthusiasm and approval for her - which can’t be faked.

connection building technique - the timeline

chase was coming out with a bootcamp and i really wanted to do it, so i was talking with tony d about it the other night (really cool guy btw) and he gave me some insight into why I’m struggling in toronto, he was like …"well they got 1000 other options and they’re all foreign” and that really hit home with me. like so fucking what, i can easily bring out girls’ attraction for me…but they’re also attracted to the other 100 guys in their phone and the other 10 guys who have approached them that day. i shit u not, i have been walking up to approach a girl in the daytime and there was another dude trying to approach her too. it was fucking crazy.

so ya, any fuckwit can build attraction and be attractive in toronto - but can any fuckwit build a fucking crazy ass connection in 5 minutes or less? maybe thats less common. and so thats another piece of the puzzle to getting really good here and thats what I’m focusing on right now - separating myself from the pack.

i learned this new connection building technique called the timeline. this shit is insanely powerful. i know that once i get good at it, its going to crush, because…..a lot of the times in the past, when a girl is ready to bang me but there needs to be a little bit more of a connection built, she will launch into some timeline of what her emotions have been like the past 6 months or so.. I can’t believe I didn’t spot this pattern until I learned this technique.

So the trick to solid connection building is to focus mostly on her past, and try to elicit the strongest emotional points from her past. then you get her to walk you through/give you a summary of whats happened between those emotional points and who shes been as a person since them. and at the end of it all, she feels like you know who she is as a person. and with some good questions at the right time, you can probably get a lot of answers out of her that she wouldnt tell anyone else. like i almost have to laugh to myself lately when i approach a girl and she starts over investing and just telling me a fuck ton of stuff right away - so i can only imagine what it would be like after a little bit of a connection has been built.

the other flip side to it is, how can i convey important points about who i am in a quick amount of time?

putting girls in the submissive frame

im always seeking to put girls in a submissive frame. calling them little, comparing them to little objects, asking if they’re shy, etc lol i just gotta watch out to keep really warm otherwise it will come off as demeaning.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

i had the most interesting set of my life with this older trinidadian women who was deathly attracted to me. She was practically begging to go to the movies with me shortly after I met her. She was framing it as a date. First, I agreed that it would be a date. But then i changed my frame to, “it’ll be a date if it lasts longer than 30 minutes and if i like you.” Then I started qualifying her really hard. After a while, she says this:

Trinny: so am i qualified to go on this date with you?
I laughed so much. During the whole set, I was taking advantage of this extreme interest from her by testing out techniques that show disinterest i.e. dropping the conversation mid sentence and looking around, body rocking, maximizing distance between us, disqualifying her on her age and other things.. She got really fearful and would constantly qualify herself to me.

Hm, imagine I could get all girls reacting like this to me?

However, my directness is not going over well with all the older ladies. This example from today is representative of it:

fog: hi, you caught my eye
old lady: i am not the person to fuck with *walks off*
One other notable set was some fairy looking girl who was a little bit of a tough nut to crack. I got her investing initially by being challenging, but afterwards she was really making me work. Like she’d just randomly drop the conversation [i later used this on the trinidad woman], which would force me to re-engage and put in more investment. Upon further reflection, I realize that I should have re-engaged with facial expressions.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

im planning to daygame for 30 days straight, starting tomorrow. this post will detail some techniques I’m hoping to solidify during this time. I believe that if i can successfully implement them, then ill be at the next level.

New Inner Game Mindset - Being the Prize

I’ve been thinking about some new mindsets I can implement in order to help me improve my game. While I am qualifying and challenging girls, which communicates that I am the prize….I am not operating from a mindset where I truly believe I am the prize (except with HB5s, lol). So I am starting to change my mindset to actually believe that I am the prize. Not only will qualifying and challenging be more congruent, but it will also open up a bunch of other natural behaviours too. I’ve been studying swinggcat, and all his inner game stuff is presented in a way that sets you up as the prize.

Future Projections

some of the big leaguers i have been studying suggest future projections. so i have been working on incorporating them into as many interactions as possible. although a future projection doesn’t provide an immediate reaction for feedback, i believe it will really help in developing better relationships, faster, with women.

Promise of Adding Value W/ Open Loops

I’ve started incorporating open loops into my game - but there is a particular open loop presented by tony d that I believe will help in getting an increased amount of girls to text me back after getting their number.

tony d talks about how you should suggest to a girl that you can add value through knowledge, but withhold it to spike her emotions - you will give the knowledge to her if she stays in contact with you.

Tentativity

The concept of tentativity is really powerful.

As mentioned, i was day gaming this trinidadian women who wanted to go on a date with me. I told her that I would take her on a date if i still liked her in a little bit. Then I started qualifying the shit out of her, and she suddenly said, “am i qualified to go on this date with you?”

The exact same sort of thing happened recently with a girl on tinder. i set up a tentative disqualifier/push saying she could possibly be too young for me. later, after i showed direct interest by asking her to hang out, she says, “so I’m not too young for you then?”

I am super eager to get women saying more stuff like this to me. It looks to me that these women are seeking to close the tension that tentative push/pulls qualifiers/disqualifiers create. They’re basically asking if they've met my standards. If I’m high enough value, I can engineer a need for girls to seek approval from me using an open loop, thus leading them to make these statements.

Here’s my formula for it (very rudimentary):

Tentative disqualification - "You might be too young for me"
Time Delay + conditions to avoid being disqualified (hoop) + open loop - "We’ll see how mature you are as we keep talking. If I like you in 5 minutes, you probably are."
indirect qualification/reward: - "hey maybe we should hang out again sometime"

IODs for IODs

if a girl is not investing, or refusing to invest - i take a huge step backwards, and show disinterest in her. the overall goal in this case is to try to increase my value through attraction building techniques, then try for investment again.

disqualifying myself

here is a beta, logical thought process in my head: if a girl is trying to qualify me, and i disqualify myself to her qualifier, then that means I’m going to lose the girl because it will make her less interested in me.

that is literally what every guy is thinking. however, actively disqualifying myself goes against the grain and will make girls more interested in me (it suggests abundance).
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

swinggcat tech: a dangerous weapon

idk if i mentioned, but i’ve been really soaking in swinggcats material. tonight i was on a date with some HB5 and had a great opportunity to practice it.

it was insane...

things were alright at first, she was warm with me and i had done ample amounts of qualifying with her. but after i pulled out some swinggcat tech, she started begging me to qualify her. this tech was coming out on auto pilot so i wasnt really thinking about my attainability. i was just wanting to get an emotional reaction out of her to keep things interesting. but soon after that she went slightly cold and indifferent towards me - this was really prominent when i was challenging her. I was sort of freaking out inside. i knew she was in auto rejection, but i didn’t know how i was gonna get her out. i calmed down and started strategizing. i amped up the warmth, started touching her a lot, qualifying her, giving her a nickname, revealing a lot more about myself, and future projecting. soon everything was back to normal and we were back to having a good time.

gotta really watch it with the average girls.

emotional reactions

heh, im actually quite pleased with my ability to get women feeling emotions around me lately.

i disqualified pond

the other day, pond and i were chatting. i was building a nice little connection with her. but then, i stopped replying. idk, i was screening her on her motivations and was gonna qualify her on them but just got bored and stopped replying. like im not down to sink all this investment into a chick ive never met. however, 2 days after i dropped the conversation, she messages me this:

Pond: :(
Fog: why the sad face dear?
Pond: cuz you never answer me
i took the opportunity to qualify and set up a date

Fog: pond bb, now that you're feeling better we need to hang out. it will really help with us connecting
Fog: I'm really digging your motivations and viewpoints and cant wait to learn more
Fog: i have time this weekend
Pond: lets chill tomorrow
So we made plans to chill the next day. And guess what. She flaked again. This is the 4th time now. She lives out of town and said her ride fell through - this is a perfectly good excuse for a flake, but the way she handled it really aggravated me. We were supposed to hang out at 1PM. She messages me at noon saying she keeps falling asleep. So at 1:03PM, I ask her when she's coming. She gets back to me at 2, saying this:

Pond: ive just had breakfast and a shower.
Fog: ooo making progress.
Then she doesn't get back to me until close to 4, and this happened:

Pond: hey i dont think its gonna happen today
Fog: uhhh
Pond: i was supposed to get a ride to the station
Pond: since the buses dont run on the weekends
Pond: and my dads still at work.
It was just fucking ridiculous - and it wasn't the first time she's been inconsiderate of my time like this. One of the times she flaked, we were supposed to hang out at 1PM. She didn't message me until 1:44. She said she was sick.

I've mentioned that Pond is like my dream girl in terms of looks. But this whole flaking thing is really turning me off, so I actually disqualified her on it. Can u believe it!? Fog is rejecting girls!!

Fog: this is like the 4th time this has happened now...its such a turn off for me honestly. like i made an exception for u the first 3 times cuz i like u but now idk...its inconsiderate of my time.
Pond: i understand completely
Pond: i am really sorry
Fog: if anything changes and ur able to chill tonight let me know.
Today, guess who messages me...

6:13PM
Pond: hey are you free tomorrow after 4?
7:05PM
Pond: ill be free after work
Pond: if you can chill
i really wonder what effect the partial DQ had on her.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Date With Pond: An Emotional Disaster

I finally got together with Pond but it was a train wreck. Not only did I ruin my attainability with her, but I also presented myself as a loser. It hurts so, so bad. :( This attainability problem where I come off as a fuckboy is losing me a ton of girls. Thankfully I know my mistakes and know exactly how I can prevent them from happening with the next girl.

We meet up and she’s wearing a brown faux fur coat and white heels, just overall very fancy. We went for a drink at some random bar. She seems to be nervous. I was holding her hand, looking at the lines on it and she had sparkles on her hand. I asked her about the sparkles. She said she had put on makeup before coming and that she had gotten some on her hand. Aww, so cuteeee :)

My first mistake came when we were talking about how my roommate had gotten in a traffic accident. I told her I wished my roommate had died. I immediately told her afterwards that I was kidding - but it seriously ruined the vibe we had going. Like she got cold and distant for a good little while after that. I was freaking out internally as usual, trying to figure a happy story to tell her. This behaviour was too polarizing for her.

She mentioned how it was weird for her to meet a guy off tinder. My mistake was not asking her why it was so weird for her, and not making her feel comfortable with it.

Every time i showed interest in her, she would really play it down and make herself seem not all that special. Or she would really not know what to say. She really reminded me of Tape - same sort of vibe

After our drinks, we went for a walk. It was fucking freezing outside. I was very cold, and it got in the way of my thinking. We walked in the general direction of my place, and I mentioned how I told her about how my roommate was sick one time, and I felt some weird paternal urge to take care of her. She was not happy about this. She got cold with me and started challenging me: “so you wouldnt take care of your brother if he was sick?” She really interpreted me as a uncaring guy here. I mean, I’ll take care of people if I have to, but I’m not a guy who has a strong inner desire to be nurturing. I couldn’t understand why she was judging me so harshly over this. But it made sense when she told me about her ex later.

I suggested we go back to my place under the guise that my roommate would maybe have some weed for us to smoke. She asked me to text my roommate, and it turns out my roommate was not gonna be home till later.

We walked right by my apartment because i was being a little pussy and not being assertive. Then she’s like:

Pond: "where do you….r parents live”
She was definitely about to ask where I lived, but changed it at the last second.. So then finally, I tell her I live reallly close and ask her if she wants to come in. She says, “i dont know.” I just let it be, which I really hate looking back on it now. Like why wouldnt I be persistent. This would have been a good opportunity to explore her objection. She was probably afraid that I would want to use her for sex, or that I would be a serial killer. From now on, I will be sure to let girls know that they are welcome to leave at any time if they get uncomfortable, and that there will be no sex happening. It would have been great to use a yes ladder to.. i.e. "wouldnt u rather be warmer rather than colder?” I will blame my investment in her, rust & my freezing body for this. I’ve had no problem getting girls I barely know over to my place in the past. Usually they present the serial killer objection, never just a straight up "idk"

Anyways, I was friggin cold, and didn’t have a backup plan (another mistake). I suggested we walk down the street to the market. But then she took charge and suggested we go find a park. We found a park and sat on a bench. In the cold. When we were sitting on the bench, she asked me how many girls I’ve met up with from tinder. I answered without thinking and gave her my default auto-pilot answer: thousands. Millions. She was not happy with this either, and it set a bad precedent for the rest of our interaction. While it is true, I have met up with lots of girls off tinder, I pumped up my value and reduced my attainability with this answer, when in fact she was looking for attainability and comfort from my answer. She was also curious about what it’s been like for me. I just told her, a few bad apples, I find the girls here to be relatively cold.

It goes deeper than this though, as I’ve been learning some stuff from Frank Kermit. What exactly am i communicating besides value and attainability with this answer? Well, it could trigger ASD. Even deeper, its a concern for her reputation. If I’m willing to tell someone about my level of involvement with women, even if its just a brief look at my involvement with women, then that could suggest that i am not a discrete person. My default answer to questions like these should be that I don’t really discuss that with women I’m not super involved with.

Then we went and stood in a corner, out of the wind and cold. During this time, she told me about her (only?) relationship that lasted 5 years. How the guy was immature, and treated her like shit, did not care. A lot of what she was talking about explained her cold behaviour towards me at certain points. She went on to say she really hates fuckboys. I believe she was possibly hinting that I could be a fuckboy. I felt my attainability was low, but for some reason I was feeling resistance towards qualifying her. Wasn’t my interest in her already clear enough? Unfortunately, I acted needy and ingenuine during this time. Holy heck it was bad. I was telling her the reason I want to get a lot of dating experience is so that I will know exactly what I’m looking for in a girl. She had a hard time understanding that. As well, during the fuckboy talk, I said “but you’re cool” and she looked at her phone and just said “thanks” indifferently. As you can imagine, I probably communicated this in the wrong way.

At one point there was a brief moment where there was some sexual tension between us. Except, she was very uncomfortable with the sexual tension. She immediately looked away from me, scrunched up her shoulders and buried her head in her coat. Usually I’d consider getting into a smaller position like this a sign of attraction, but given everything that had been going on, I realized she was not comfortable with me.

The whole time I had been giving her brief touches on her arm. I put my arm around her at a certain point briefly. We touched knees on the bench. But I was way too in my head, worried about my attainability. So worried that I forgot about the bigger picture. Looking back, it was a major roadblock.

She said she had to go, so we started walking towards her bus stop. This is where it hit me: I had barely escalated at all! if I dont step it up and start making a move, then I’m going to lose her. So I planted a huge kiss right on her cheek. Some teenager shit. Her reaction was so cute. She got so frazzled. I used to have no problem escalating quick, i guess I’m rusty. I wonder if the cheek kiss had any sort of effect on my attainability at all, as a cheek kiss is sort of boyfriendy.

I wanted to hold her hand. I did put out my hand, but she was just like “what?” And I rerouted by saying I needed help warming up my hands. I was too much of a pussy to ask her to hold my hand...need to channel my inner seppuku

We were walking towards her bus stop, but I didn't bother to find out where it was. So she led me all the way to the bus stop, which pisses me off because it’s a lack of leadership on my part.

We get to the bus stop, and we’re waiting for her bus to come, but I did not say it out loud that I was gonna wait with her. I guess she felt a little uncomfortable because she was like “oh I’m gonna walk down the street cuz i wanna go to a store.” Well, I knew that was a lie. We hug, but it’s only a half hug (she definitely did not want me kissing her) and she says “i guess ill talk to you later” I guess???? omg, truly heartbreaking.

Chasing is out of the question, although I am really wanting to reach out to her. There were good moments between us, but for some reason i can only seem to focus on the bad. Onto the next chick...who is just around the corner
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

amazing daygame seshes

Had some amazing sets the last few days that I would view as, probably, some of my better sets. they're getting similar to when i gamed the trinidadian women. I managed to fit in a lot of material ive been wanting to try out but havent found the situation for it. If i can make all my sets like these, I’d be happy.

I was chatting with an asian women. During the set, I looked behind me and there was an cute little indian girl standing around like 6 feet away. She gave me an approach invitation. After my chat with the asian ended, I walked over to her and opened her. Turns out she was doing some volunteer work. I qualified her on this, but then I set higher qualifications for her: what else do you do that helps the community? She said she played volleyball! I found this hilarious because volleyball definitely does not help the community, but she liked me and just wanted to find any way to qualify to my screen. I made sure to reward her for meeting my screens by giving her compliments and future projecting. We were really vibing so i grabbed her number. We’ve since set up a date for tuesday.

very spontaneously, i opened this older israeli women….her eyes lit up initially, but shortly into the conversation she responded indifferently to me using an open loop to try to trigger some curiosity in her. i did not like this indifference from her and transitioned into this:

fog: you remind me of my grandma. although im probably too old for you
girl: wait... im pretty sure im older than you. [amused and confused]
fog: you might not be mature enough for me. we'll wait and see if i like you in 5 minutes
girl: [speechless]
her eyes started glazing over and she was just standing there not saying anything. her eyes were rolled up towards the left so i know she was trying to think of something to say. i almost waited but instead i just hopped straight into screening her but then her friend came in and cockblocked so heavy. her friend said she was married. i really should have not paid any attention to the cockblock. i asked them if they were married together. the cockblock fell into my frame and said that yes they were. i should have said something like, “oh so u guys are a package deal. looks like youll both have to get on my good side”

There was this one indian-italian girl who was an extreme yellow light. She was giving off the vibe that she was testing me to find out if i was dominant or not. She was doing purposeful non-verbal takeaways. I think this stuff is designed to try to get a panicked reaction out of me, so just by playing it cool I pass. She asked me to guess her nationality. I refused to guess and changed the subject. Later I asked again, she got grumpy saying, “I asked u to guess” Then she starts walking away. I said, “wait. i realized something bout u” she came back but i wasnt exactly warmed up yet so i didnt have anything to say. I smirked and walked away.

Looking back, I could have beat this girl in our flirting match. Like when she said “guess” i could have said “tell me ur name and i will guess” thus eliciting investment out of her. then, after she told me her name I would tell her I will guess in 5 minutes if she hasn’t said anything that has turned me off. or maybe a disqualifier. its overall important to try to widen the status gap between me and the girl in these situations

there was this homeless girl i gamed for shits and giggles. i asked her out for coffee, lol cuz she met all my screens. we were getting along pretty well - very easy and pleasant to flirt with. she says:

girl: will u pay for the coffee?
me: i will if i like u
girl: ooo i feel like im being put to the test
sticking points

I’m having a hard time getting some girls intrigued by my open loops. i established that open loops do not work when a girl does not view u as higher value. but sometimes, even when the girl is investing and seems to be attracted, the open loops do not have the desired effect. i think i have to tweak them a bit more to portray to the girl that i have information i am holding back.

one of my biggest sticking points is portraying a calm vocal tone. in the middle of a set i will analyze my vocal tones, and realize i am talking way too tensely and excitedly. I can notice a mega difference when i am talking calm rather than when i am talking excited. maybe i will have to work on this for a few years. but this is gonna make a huge difference when getting girls to hook on me
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

rooting

in some of my sets yesterday, i noticed extremely subtle changes in behavior after rooting. it was so weird - i even noticed some changes in microexpressions! i was feeling overly sensitive to conversational tension, and was able to feel it release. crazy how saying just one thing can drastically increase comfort.

Date with Prancer

This is the girl I mentioned I met in my last journal post. I learned so much.

I noticed some patterns based around how she would act when i would verbally push pull. When I would pull her in, her state elevated and she’d be very happy. When I’d push, she would laugh. So obviously, pulls fill a girl with tension, and pushes release that tension. I’ve seen many girls laugh to release tension after a push, but I never noticed the effects of a pull. This is huge. Now that know what I’m looking for, I can properly calibrate.

She was engaged and emotional 90% of the time, but towards the end we started talking about logical shit and everything came crashing down. it became a boring conversation. I did find out her logistics and she said she didn’t have a long time to hang out, so pulling was out of the question. I think in these situations, or in situations with inexperienced girls who might need more time with you to get to know you, cutting the date short on a massive high point is ideal to set the stage for a second date.

Anyways, so went for coffee. We grab a booth, and she sits on the opposite side of me. I tell her i want her to sit with me, and her objection is:

Prancer: but i won’t be able to see you!
I let her get away with it but later, knowing it is making escalation difficult, I ask her to sit with me again. She does.

I was doing extremely well with getting to know her using the timeline technique. But something very strange happened. The whole time, her vibe was positive. But then, I was discovering a second positive highly emotional point in her life and her vibe went from good to very neutral/slightly closed off for the first time in our date. It was so odd. I assessed my behaviour. I found myself to be a little on the enthusiastic side.

i did try kissing her neck. she had a very bad reaction, and looked quite scared/shocked. i do not think the issue was her not knowing what i wanted (given the fact i told her i found her attractive and was touching her). whether i did it at the wrong time or not, I think a neck kiss is too sexual when you’re in public - especially for less experienced girls (i suspect she was). i will try out cheek kisses, they are less threatening. After my failed attempt to kiss her neck, she went and sat on the other side of the booth.

i dont believe ill be hearing from her again due to the escalation mistake and the vibe killing logical conversation towards the end. its okay. I'm building up some momentum lately... in the last month ive been on 6 dates. that's a lot for me. looking to keep the ball rolling - today ill have been going out to game every day for 2 weeks straight.
 

fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

I'm on day 19 of the 30 day challenge.

open loops

I took a break from toronto and im back in my hometown for a few days. Before i left, i was sharpening up my use of open loops, which I've found to be highly effective at triggering emotional reactions from women. But now that I'm home I have taken the opportunity to practice open loops on my female friends who are already emotionally committed to me. Here's an example of one I'm using:

I tell the girl there’s 3 things I like about her:

1. some kind of mannerism.
2. something she has said that I liked.
3. then i say this: "If I were to tell you….you will become conscious of it…and you will stop doing it…so I can’t tell you.”

I used this on a longtime female friend of mine at a party, and she completely freaked out and started yelling, "tell me!!! tell me!!" for like 5 minutes.

Women hate when there is unresolved tension like this. So the next step for me is to get women to qualify themselves to me, in the middle of the loop, and in return i will reward them by closing the open loop for them. When I get more practice, they will have to sleep with me in order to get the loop closed.

She asked for my number

I was gaming at the college in my hometown. Opened an HB6 sitting down reading a book. She was incredibly attracted to me. She discovered we shared some commonalities and had a strong emotional reaction - she got VERY curious.

What happened next shocked me. Instead of satisfying her curiosity, I told her I had to leave! She immediately expressed disappointment and asked me for my facebook - i told her I wasn't on social media. Then, she asked me for my #.

This experience taught me a very important lesson in navigating the emotional reactions of women and how to benefit from them.
 
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