Forcing women to submit and win-lose fights: how to avoid them? (an example)

[lux7]

An example of forcing a woman to submit with an "I'm sorry" without (being able to) offering anything back.

How to handle these situations better?


BACKGROUND
I was having breakfast with the girl I'm dating -and possibly soon to be GF- and I kept lingering on a topic that gave her negative feelings.

I kinda of knew it but I failed to read the signs and realize it was making her emotionally unstable.


SHE SNAPS
After a while she snapped.
Nothing too aggressive or mean: a mildly hostile, annoyed push back asking to stop making so many questions on the topic.


MY FIRST REACTION
I was taken aback as it came out of the blue and she's always polite.
I was a bit butthurt but I let it go at the beginning pretending I didn't mind.

That was the main mistake, I suppose: you should address issues in the bud.


FINALLY I MAKE IT CLEAR
As the small altercation went on I finally made clear what was my issue: I don't accept "snapping" and mild aggression during a (seemingly) nice conversation when there's no prior warning.

And now I want an apology.



HER POSITION
She say she can't be the only one to apologize and "improve" behaviour when she was the one with the emotional uproar but I insist I couldn't know I was doing something wrong so I did nothing wrong.



FORCING AN EXCUSE
As we walk back we get to the crossroad: now it's either back to my place or to the bus stop.

I verbalize I can't have her snapping at me, not realizing it was wrong, failing to apologize and then have her back home as if all was good.
Now it's a stalemate and I can't go back so I keep pushing for that apology.

She capitulates and asks sorry.



WIN-LOSE RESULT
Of course now she feels browbeaten.
I didn't need an explanation but she actually verbalizes it quite clearly: "you won, I lost".

I feel we actually both lost. And I feel a bit of an idiot as it's all because of me.

This isn't the right way to handle relationships and arguments, there shouldn't be a winner and a loser in a good relationship.


YOUR PRECIOUS FEEDBACK
...

 

[PrettyDecent]

Lucifer,

Yeah, well hey, guess it's just one of those "make the mistake once, and you learn from it" type deals.

As for the actual situation. I don't know...maybe I have a bad read on this, but I don't actually see what the problem you had against her "snap" was? Can you explain a bit more what she actually said when she pushed back, and possibly the tone as well?

From what I'm thinking right now - it wasn't enough a big deal to warrant forcing her to apologize.

If I were you, I'd let the silence linger for a couple seconds after she pushes back, then after, say (in an easy going manner, non-confrontational tone):

"Well, look, its not always easy knowing which subject is going to be sore for any one person. Every person comes with their own set of experiences and I can't read minds, so on the off-chance we happen to be on one of those subjects, just throw in a "hey, this one's a sore subject for me, can we move on?", and I'll understand and say "for sure, no worries" and we'll move on, no dramas at all. Deal?"

~Nick

 

[lux7]

Thanks Nick!

Lucifer,

Yeah, well hey, guess it's just one of those "make the mistake once, and you learn from it" type deals.

As for the actual situation. I don't know...maybe I have a bad read on this, but I don't actually see what the problem you had against her "snap" was?

Well, the issue would be that I'd rather not have people "snapping" at me out of the blue.

Might a personal thing too as I see raising one's voice as a lack of respect and I can't even remember the last time I snapped at someone (maybe I keep things inside too much actually).

Also once it happened once, if let go, it's also more likely it might happen again in front of other friends or, even worse, parents.

Can you explain a bit more what she actually said when she pushed back, and possibly the tone as well?

Don't remember the exact words but it must have been something like "I have already told you that, stop asking me again, why are you asking me all these questions about this guy, I don't wanna talk about these people, I want to forget all of this".

It was with raised voice -but not screaming- and the tone was between anger and exasperation.

From what I'm thinking right now - it wasn't enough a big deal to warrant forcing her to apologize.

If I were you, I'd let the silence linger for a couple seconds after she pushes back, then after, say (in an easy going manner, non-confrontational tone):

"Well, look, its not always easy knowing which subject is going to be sore for any one person. Every person comes with their own set of experiences and I can't read minds, so on the off-chance we happen to be on one of those subjects, just throw in a "hey, this one's a sore subject for me, can we move on?", and I'll understand and say "for sure, no worries" and we'll move on, no dramas at all. Deal?"

~Nick

Yep, that sounds like a very good way of handling it, especially because it addresses the issue as soon as it surfaces rather than letting it boil with "beating around the bush" discussions of why that was a bad topic and why I didn't think it was.

I'm sure the answer would have eventually been a "sorry if I overracted", at which I could have easily said "it's ok this time, but I would appreciate it you try to control your emotions next time and give me a warning because I don't like that kind of mildly aggressive behaviour and I feel like it's got no place in a good relationship".

Firmly, but with a slight smile at the end of end of it.
And that would have been it.

 

[ray_zorse]

I see where you are coming from in asking her to stop this behaviour but that won't work. It communicates to her that she can mess you about by suddenly getting angry and snapping at you. As such it will actually encourage the behaviour by rewarding it with attention.

Your job is to lead and nowhere more so than when she tries to create drama. The only possible solution is to ignore it and not engage with the drama (not attempt to explain yourself or point out the unreasonableness of her response or ask for the drama to stop). Just change the subject and whilst u may feel butthurt, pretend u aren't. Just take it all in your stride.

At the same time take note of her concerns and address them. If you think she had a point and expressed it in an inappropriately dramatic way, go ahead and do as she asks (but not immediately, so as not to appear reactive). Either just fix the problem, or if it can't be fixed after the event say "I shouldn't have done X. I'd like to make it up to you. I suggest ...". If it was unreasonable you can either ignore, or address it (ater she's calmed down and not in the angry place anymore) with reasonableness, persuasion and logic.

It's hard to keep your head when attacked particularly if u have self esteem issues. I don't always succeed (in keeping my head) but it goes better when I do. If this is an issue for you then work on your inner game and mindsets generally.

cheers, Ray

 

[Zoro]

I actually have to disagree with a little bit of what was said here.

For one, I think the fault here was actually on you, Lucifer. You said it yourself, you knew it was a sore topic, yet you continued pressing her.

It's kind of like poking at a wound. It's not unreasonable for someone to have enough and say "Quit it already!"

As for not tolerating someone raising their voice at you, I would say that is reasonable and worth bringing to attention. PrettyDecent's advice on that was pretty decent (I went for the pun) and the way you handled it was alright too. Though she did have a point, if someone was knowingly poking a sore spot and the other snapped at them, both parties were a little out of line.

I would recommend you be more aware of her needs and emotions. In my experience, it is the key to leading. That awareness builds trust and allows you to take charge without bulldozing your way. Dominance and leading requires some finesse.

As PD said, chalk it up as a learning experience, I don't think any serious damage was done anyway.

 

[lux7]

Thanks guys.
Yep, definitely my fault and mishandling.

Yeah, it's not the end of the world, but once things like these happen -ie: bulldozing her into voluntary submission- my guess is that the girl might afterwards be brought to a point of being too afraid of snapping again around the guy, which would force her to tiptoe for a while and prevent her from relaxing 100%. And in the worst cases even bring her to harbor resentful feelings.

It's interesting how to possibly correct and relax one's own lines in the sand when they were set too strict, but it's off topic and I will open another thread for that.

 

[PrettyDecent]

PrettyDecent's advice on that was pretty decent (I went for the pun)

Haha. I've been waiting for that pun for waaay too long.

~Nick