FR++, first date with conservative chinese girl

[PinotNoir]

Sorry, I write too much, but will try to make it concise... I'm writing a lot in hopes this helps someone else on a first date with a reserved chinese girl.

If you've read my previous posts, then you probably know that I was planning on seeing this girl out-of-state, but it got canceled because of funeral. Well, we got it rescheduled, and I went to go see her...

I know this is dumb; Ross & Franco helped me a lot on another thread. I'm doing a lot of "chasing." However, I've never done something like this before (ever), so I decided it would be a fun adventure.

Background
We met online, and I chatted with her a lot. I hate long-distance relationships, but we talk for 2 months and still have tons to talk about and enjoy each other, so I finally decide I will ask her out and fly to go on a date with her. Why not?...

Before the date, I read a lot of Chase's deep-dive/conversation and kissing articles and pseudo-plan what I will do/say.

Meet
I meet her outside and hug and kiss her on the cheek instantly. She looks drop-dead gorgeous, very cute... I tell her that she is too tall for me (joke; she is short, so laughs), but that she looks beautiful. We go back inside into my hotel room. It's time for us to exchange gifts. She's very conservative/reserved, so I have a hard time for her to sit next to me on bed. I say, "I will not give your gifts unless sit next to me" and smile. I grab her hands softly but stern (not forceful) and pull her over to the bed to sit next to me. We exchange gifts, and I also bought her a blue rose. She looks kind of stiff, so I pull her close to me and try to make her more relaxed and tell her, "Hey, it's just me, don't worry." She is too distant right now, so I don't try what Ross suggested in previous post...

She made and brought food for me. We go into hotel courtyard (very beautiful) and eat. Again, I make her sit next to me on a bench instead of across table haha. This time I don't have to pull her physically, just say words. There is also a piano, so I play a little bit of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata (a very easy version of the 1st movement; that's all I know).

Travel
We walk to subway to go to central park. Every now and then I will put my hand on her back to lead her, especially if lots of people about to bombard us. On the subway, I put my arm around her to stabilize her better (if you've never been on a subway, you get jerked around more than you would expect).

During meal and subway, I ask her about why wanted to be an actress when a kid and stuff and about childhood. I forget exactly the conversation.

We walk a long time in park to go to museum. Before I went, I made a list of topics from all of the articles I read. We pretty much covered everything that you could. I asked about travel, dreams/goals, ex-boyfriends, friends, family, last exciting adventure (before this one), dream job, what she likes in a guy, philosophies on love, etc. Everything you can think of, while regaling my thoughts when she asked. I hold her hand; she say, "Not ready yet," but I hold it anyway for a while.

Museum
Conversation is easy because can ask what history likes the best and where would live during that time, etc. She asks me to hold her purse. I tell her that I don't really do that. She gets really upset and says, "All of my past boyfriends hold my purses. All Chinese boys hold girls' purses" and gets upset. Prepare to cringe... I hate to see her upset on first real date, so I say that I will hold purse. I put it around my arm and look in glass reflection and am like, "Don't I look just so pretty?" and other stuff. Well, I think I made her upset (maybe she thought I was saying her ex-boyfriends are gay or something), so she takes purse back. Well, that's good because I only had to hold purse for like 10 seconds haha, but then I move her to bench and put my arm around her and try to smooth it out well. She gets over it, and we enjoy museum and conversation again. (After I left to return home, I texted her about purse-holding -- "american guys don't hold purse; I just can't do it. is that okay?" -- and she said that she doesn't mind if I don't hold purse in future.) At one point, this guy starts yelling at the security guard; I put my arm around her to protect her and move us away. We return to hotel to watch movie...

Hotel Room
We watch movie, and I hold her and touch hand/arm/etc. I touch various parts of her body so used to my touch, like in Chase's article. I try romantic kiss (hold eye contact, go in slow), but she denies it. I try again during movie and after movie a few more times. She keeps denying it; she'll put hand in front of mouth and I will just kiss hand. I decide to fall to plan B (the spontaneous kiss that Chase mentioned in article). I start just talking about something random and whispering, leaning close to her. Then without warning I kiss her real quick on the lips.

Thank you so much Chase! I can't thank you enough for this gem.

Well, this "unlocked the door." At first, she was like, "I can't believe you did that!" And I just hold eye contact and say, "I can't believe I didn't do it sooner; your lips are so soft." Well, then I go in for romantic kiss, and she doesn't stop me.

Another great tip from Chase's article is eye contact. I remember to focus my gaze on the bridge of her nose. If you look eye-to-eye, it shows that you are unsure if she likes you. Another great tip!

Well, I can't go into all of the details (as that's personal), but we make out and touch each other, play wrestle, etc. for hours. It was really great. I could never get her clothes off though; it's funny because I had just read about the "last 5%" on ZacAdam's post. She is just too reserved/conservative, and at this point, I am too slotted into the boyfriend role.

I really don't mind being the boyfriend, but I fear that you especially need sex in a long-distance relationship. I honestly didn't mind not having sex with her, just making out.

After she went home, she texts me the next few days telling me how it was the best date of her life, etc.

Moral of the story: be persistent. I really don't know what I will do about sex; she is so reserved, and I am boyfriended now. Any advice?

Thanks for reading,
Pinot

 

[Laowai]

It sounds similar to many of my experiences from living in China and dating Chinese girls. Many of them just wouldn't budge. A thing for you to consider when dating girls who are conservative is to implement LMR inocculators. Read my LR: HB Victory for the kind of game I ran in China. It includes two examples of LMR inocculators: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1518

Basically, you need to communicate your frames about sex better; "sex is a natural thing between people who like each other, I like people who I like to feel good, making love will make us closer, etc." Also, did you get to finger her at all? Fingering them from behind always seems to do the trick.

Good job getting this far. I'm guessing it's your massive comfort action that made you get this far, since she 's a conservative Chinese girl. In my experience those sets can blow up in your hand by a minor mistake.

Also, Chinese girls expect you and want you to chase. Expect that you must always contact them, rather than the other way around. When you chase them it tells them that you genuinely like them and it makes them feel more comfortable around you. It's a cultural thing.

 

[PinotNoir]

It sounds similar to many of my experiences from living in China and dating Chinese girls. Many of them just wouldn't budge. A thing for you to consider when dating girls who are conservative is to implement LMR inocculators. Read my LR: HB Victory for the kind of game I ran in China. It includes two examples of LMR inocculators: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1518

Basically, you need to communicate your frames about sex better; "sex is a natural thing between people who like each other, I like people who I like to feel good, making love will make us closer, etc." Also, did you get to finger her at all? Fingering them from behind always seems to do the trick.

Good job getting this far. I'm guessing it's your massive comfort action that made you get this far, since she 's a conservative Chinese girl. In my experience those sets can blow up in your hand by a minor mistake.

Also, Chinese girls expect you and want you to chase. Expect that you must always contact them, rather than the other way around. When you chase them it tells them that you genuinely like them and it makes them feel more comfortable around you. It's a cultural thing.

Thanks man! I definitely appreciate the feedback, and I'll read your post first thing after work.

No, I fucked up and didn't persist to sex. I tried caressing her legs and entire body up and down to make her hornier. But whenever I would start caressing her ass or trying to take her clothes off, there was too much resistance. I should have persisted more on this, but I was too tired from all of the work to reach the point of heated making out. Like you said, I should have persisted to fingering her at least and setting up proper sex-is-natural frames. I'll know for next time with a girl.

At first, I thought that I was pseudo-successful, until I read this article:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/3-second-date-strategies-make-her-flirt-and-swoon

Now I know the error of my ways. If you proceed towards sex, it has to end in sex, else you come off as "losing" and less of a man in her eyes.

Unfortunately, it's pseudo-ended now. Before even dating her, I told her that I'd never be a Christian. Well, that topic came up again Saturday, and she got pretty upset. She says that a Christian woman and a non-religious guy can never work out. She's only been Christian for like 3-4 years...

Well, I didn't text/call her since Saturday. I realized that I was texting too much. It's interesting that you say that Chinese women will never initiate because she ended up texting me yesterday, "hi how are you?" After a few hours, I replied back, "just enjoying life and exploring the world (sometimes the underworld) how are you? NY treating you well?" We chit-chatted for a bit, and then I asked when free for Skype. Since the beginning, I've been trying to game it like a local girl, except using texting for setting up meetups on Skype with cam. We chatted on Skype, and it went well, but I can tell it's pretty dead. My plan is to just put it on the back burner and keep dating other girls. I'm not going to text/call, and if she does, I'll wait a while and then respond warmly and positively while also focusing on commanalities and steering clear of religion. That's the only way I can think to get her hopefully missing me and "fixing" the problems I created.

By the way, for anyone unfamiliar with Chinese culture, apparently, she told me that Beijing girls are more like American girls. She's from south China (Guangdong, speaks Cantonese), and that's apparently where the reserved/conservative girls are from: south China.

 

[Laowai]

Before even dating her, I told her that I'd never be a Christian. Well, that topic came up again Saturday, and she got pretty upset. She says that a Christian woman and a non-religious guy can never work out. She's only been Christian for like 3-4 years...

Oh goodness, she is a Chinese Christian too??? Goodness, I feel for you and take my hat off for you, Sir, that you even made it to the point of making out with her. My experience with Chinese Christian girls is that they are über conservative. For me it's usually a red flag if a Chinese girl is Christian too. It's something they will bring up pretty fast in convo because it's a great part of their identity. This one has only been Christian for 3-4 years which means that she is newly saved and therefore, possibly, quite devoted to her faith.

You should have said that you would consider becoming a Christian. It's stuff like this that will make you lose the conservative Chinese girls without you even realizing it.

By the way, for anyone unfamiliar with Chinese culture, apparently, she told me that Beijing girls are more like American girls. She's from south China (Guangdong, speaks Cantonese), and that's apparently where the reserved/conservative girls are from: south China.

I lived in Beijing for 2,5 years, and the girls I dated were nothing like American girls. To me it merely sounds like she's subjected to provincial prejudice/generalization about girls from the capital, which is understandable since China is a big, industrialising country.

It's interesting that you say that Chinese women will never initiate because she ended up texting me yesterday, "hi how are you?"

Yeah, sure, 'never' is a big word. I've been chased by a number of girls there, but most of the girls expected me to initiate contact always.

This girl likes you. Just ping her once in a while. Although I wouldn't expect sex from her currently, you never know what may happen in the future.

 

[PinotNoir]

Oh goodness, she is a Chinese Christian too??? Goodness, I feel for you and take my hat off for you, Sir, that you even made it to the point of making out with her. My experience with Chinese Christian girls is that they are über conservative. For me it's usually a red flag if a Chinese girl is Christian too. It's something they will bring up pretty fast in convo because it's a great part of their identity. This one has only been Christian for 3-4 years which means that she is newly saved and therefore, possibly, quite devoted to her faith.

Thanks, yeah, leading to making out took a lot of work haha. She is not a virgin though, but now because of Christianity thinks that she should wait until marriage... I think her previous experience helped me out here. Sometimes I think, "Well, she had sex with a guy before... why not me?" But that's probably just me being bitter.

You should have said that you would consider becoming a Christian. It's stuff like this that will make you lose the conservative Chinese girls without you even realizing it.

I really thought about this, but couldn't do it in the end. If it's something that I know for a 100% fact, I just can't lie to a potential girlfriend about. I did say, "Hey, I'm spiritual; I belief in the afterlife, etc. I just don't align to a religion," but it didn't help.

I lived in Beijing for 2,5 years, and the girls I dated were nothing like American girls. To me it merely sounds like she's subjected to provincial prejudice/generalization about girls from the capital, which is understandable since China is a big, industrialising country.

I'll trust you on this. As far as I know, she's never been to Beijing. It's probably just some stereotype that's perpetuated in south China.

This girl likes you. Just ping her once in a while. Although I wouldn't expect sex from her currently, you never know what may happen in the future.

True. I still like her enough to keep talking with her. The problem is that I may be being pushed into the friend zone. I don't know if her initiating conversation is a sign of interest or if it's a sign of friend zone.

She texted me again this morning too -- without me initiating. I again waited a few hours and then chit-chatted just for a bit, but didn't set a meetup though this time. The conversation died naturally. I'm going to not initiate and wait. If she initiates again, I'm thinking about just saying, "Hey, if you keep thinking about me like this and wanting to text me, we should go on a second date" or something like that. Bad or good idea?

 

[Laowai]

She texted me again this morning too -- without me initiating. I again waited a few hours and then chit-chatted just for a bit, but didn't set a meetup though this time. The conversation died naturally. I'm going to not initiate and wait. If she initiates again, I'm thinking about just saying, "Hey, if you keep thinking about me like this and wanting to text me, we should go on a second date" or something like that. Bad or good idea?

Normally with a Chinese girl I would even be cautious about calling our meet-ups "dates". Some of them are THAT subtle in my experience. "Meeting up / hanging out" would do. Don't verbalize whether you're friends or not, even though clearly, you're more than that.

I thought she was staying in another city? How about having her fly in this time so you can "show her around your city"?

 

[PinotNoir]

I thought she was staying in another city? How about having her fly in this time so you can "show her around your city"?

Right, I would definitely not fly to her again. It's her "turn" as far as I am concerned. However, I would go to a city that I have never been before (split hotel cost), just for a vacation with guarantee of kissing and enjoyment of exploring a new place/culture/etc. Of course, I would prefer her to fly to me, as that's the cheapest and least effort, and I'll push for that.

 

[PinotNoir]

Sorry to keep posting on this, but I guess we're going on a 2nd date haha.

She texted me again this morning too -- without me initiating. I again waited a few hours and then chit-chatted just for a bit, but didn't set a meetup though this time. The conversation died naturally. I'm going to not initiate and wait. If she initiates again, I'm thinking about just saying, "Hey, if you keep thinking about me like this and wanting to text me, we should go on a second date" or something like that. Bad or good idea?

I ended up waiting. She texted again, so I responded similarly to the above, and she said "yes" after 1 day of silence. I was worried a little about the silence, but then we Skyped and had a pretty good conversation. I really focused on qualifying this time like in your thread (but could have qualified more), and I also used some of the "you only like that because of hot guys!" lines that I read in your post too.

Well, I'm not putting all of my eggs in this basket though, as it's already shown itself to be rocky. I also told her that she'd have to fly here or we meet at some city I've never been to, and she's okay with that. I'm probably going to get her to fly here.

She also brought up sex, and I think I handled it better this time:

Her:
Her: no sex, right?
Me: I can't promise
Me: it depends on how romantic the night is
Me: but, I will NEVER force
Me: I am not that kind of guy
Me: sex is a very personal thing between two people
Me: it's natural and brings 2 people very close
Me: it is the closest 2 people can be... physically, emotionally, etc.
Me: if you ever get uncomfortable, just say "stop"
Her:
Her: you're right

Hopefully, this lays down the foundation for me, and I can get her here and make love to her... Time will tell... just got to avoid religion talk...

 

[Laowai]

When she says "no sex, right?" it means that she's already thought about it happening which is good. But she wants some reassurance that it won't happen, that's why she brings it up.

You engaging in a talk like that with a conservative Chinese AND Christian girl will work against you. The problem is that now you're setting expectations and now she knows that you WILL push for it.

It would have been way better to deflect and say smth like: "Sex?! OMG, you girls always only think about sex!" and changed the topic fast.

When she does get to your city, you will ideally seed something to show her at the sex location instead of just taking her there to have sex / for a drink. Some Chinese girls need massive amounts of plausible deniability. On occassion I'd have seeded 3-4 things that were just amazing that she just had to see in my apartment. When they started to give resistance of going there with me (and most of them would, even the ones that I banged), I could fall back on my seeds which had nothing to do with sex and then get them there, which is exactly what I did in LR: Victory.

 

[PinotNoir]

It would have been way better to deflect and say smth like: "Sex?! OMG, you girls always only think about sex!" and changed the topic fast.

This is actually what I did before the 1st date when it came up (almost exactly). However, she then somehow got the impression that I "promised no sex." She said this to me later after the date: "thanks for keeping your promise of no sex " I'm pretty positive that I never promised... Therefore, this time I wanted to make sure and try something different haha

When she does get to your city, you will ideally seed something to show her at the sex location instead of just taking her there to have sex / for a drink. Some Chinese girls need massive amounts of plausible deniability. On occassion I'd have seeded 3-4 things that were just amazing that she just had to see in my apartment. When they started to give resistance of going there with me (and most of them would, even the ones that I banged), I could fall back on my seeds which had nothing to do with sex and then get them there, which is exactly what I did in LR: Victory.

Well, she'll be staying with me, so no worries there, but this is a great idea in case she won't come into my bedroom. Thanks. I'm getting an apartment this upcoming month finally.

If she does come here, I've been planning it out a little in my mind. She doesn't like museums I found out haha, but didn't mind on our date. I'll probably do the local botanical gardens one day. She loves movies; even though the movie date is very cliche, I'll probably do that one day. Make food together one day. Then towards the end of the week do swimming at my gym or something. I'll have to keep thinking, assuming she comes and assuming she stays for week... All "dates" would end up back at my place.