Frame Control is Being like Water

Rakehell

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
683
A big part of frame control and being able to talk to and relate to a great many people, is being able to consider everything.

It takes putting your own judgements and hang ups aside and being able to see things from every aspect.

Truth is there is no such thing as the truth. Truth is what you deem to believe in at the moment. It’s not concrete, it’s fluid and subjective to the person.

What may be true in one moment, may not be true in the next. When you consider the good and the bad, or the evil and the just, as mutually exclusive truth’s, you can start to see how everything is connected in one way or another.

This gives you the freedom of frames, because you can consider everything, and it gives you the ability to relate to things you may not relate to as a person per say.

And when you speak, you can speak a truth not easily challenged, because you’re considering all sides, and it’s objectively hard to argue with someone who can look past their own agenda and at the bigger picture.

Most people are biased in their frame work. They only communicate frames that align with their beliefs and agenda or situation. They have things they like and things they don’t.

When you can understand why the things they like aren’t so great and why the things they don’t are only that way because of how they’re framing it. You can flip their frame upside down, and they can’t argue it because they never considered why the things they don’t like might be likeable to other people.

This is powerful two fold because when you consider everything you can see how things on two different ends of the spectrum aren’t all that different in the first place. You see how they connect.

When you can communicate how you’re really talking about the same thing, although different on the surface. You can bring people into your frame because your frames are the same in a way.

For examples sake lets say you have a girl who claims she never gives oral. She just doesn’t it’s gross and she may catch a std.

Well she’s already kissed you. You’re more likely to get a std from kissing than oral sex. And even so oral sex is just skin to skin contact, if she’s kissed you, she’s essentially kissed your dick (lol). In the same way that shaking hands is no more intimate that hugging someone.

Yes there’s more contact in a hug, but the hands are much dirtier than the body. In the same way that the lips are much dirtier than the genitals. They’re more exposed to the elements.

And you both care greatly about your hygiene. So although your lips may not be dirty it’s safe to say that your genitals, your more intimate of areas, are much more taken care of.

Is this the truth? Yes and no.

In the same way having sex is like eating food. Is it done to accomplish some biologal need or to bond in some greater way? Sure. But even more so it’s done for pleasure. If we had the option to take some flavorless pill and be satiated for the day.

Most people would still opt to eat food because it’s an enjoyable experience. People like the feelings, and experiences that come from eating food and having sex.

It doesn’t have to be done to feed some social purpose. Because at the end of the day we do things we like because we like to do them.

It’s being like water because you are neutral in your reception. You don’t agree nor disagree fully. And once you understand their frame and where they’re coming from you can respond using the elements that they gave you. As a wave.

You understand their truth and respond with a greater truth that includes theirs.
 
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themino

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
65
This is not practical. What do you do when she disagrees with your frame, because it isn't the truth? Since it isn't truth it can be shown as false. Why not use the truth? Truth can't be false by definition. This whole "there is no truth" frame is false. Truth exists. 1+1 = 2 ALWAYS. Thats is why it's practical. Truth the most solid frame from which to stand on. Truth is the only thing that exists. You stand on water that while flexible is not strong. You will face resistance when the world does not respond to your frame, forcing you to float around the issue like water crashing upon sold rock.

see the truth in all things
 

Chad Tyrone

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
210
This is not practical. What do you do when she disagrees with your frame, because it isn't the truth? Since it isn't truth it can be shown as false. Why not use the truth? Truth can't be false by definition. This whole "there is no truth" frame is false. Truth exists. 1+1 = 2 ALWAYS. Thats is why it's practical. Truth the most solid frame from which to stand on. Truth is the only thing that exists. You stand on water that while flexible is not strong. You will face resistance when the world does not respond to your frame, forcing you to float around the iss
Hey man really like your thinking .Imma ask you one single question though.Don't you believe that all we know is a result of all the years of learning and conditioning we have undergone since our childhood.I bet we believe a "2+2=4 " cause someone once brought it up ,if he didn't we would believe otherwise or remained in ignorance without knowledge of calculations out there

Do you think an uninitiated newbie to our arts knows his way around bypassing all the competition towards getting a girl in bed?Nuhuh.All he knows is be nice toward women and never bring sex up cause it pisses women off.A result of societal conditioning.He doesn't have any knowledge that he could become a lover and face lesser competition or nay none.

But you are aware of the lover route cause you learned while he is unaware cause he hasn't learned.Where one thing ends another begins,where one thing begins another ends.It's nature and we can't question it it's just a waste of time.Tomes of books may have been written about nature but who knows there's more to nature other than what we know.

Where unawareness ends awareness begins,where awareness begins unawareness ends.They are one .Truth exists where there is false,false exists where there is truth.This may be a hard one to believe lol.But books and books have been written on spiritualism on Buddhism and the like to prove there is polarity to everything but they still are one and the same thing.

Happiness is pain .Pain happiness.

A good start to such a mental model is just believing don't question it.Don't think it over .Just allow the isness of things.They are just but labels.Nothing more to them.What you may define as truth is false to others,what others may define as false may be truth to you.We tend to label situations and end up basing our identities on such labels.Don't label,don't judge ...just observe.

Be the observer of your thoughts,not the judge."I'm now judging this as truth,I'm now judging this as false".That's all what you have to think.OBSERVE.And leave it at that.Truth is nothing.False ditto.They just are .Only but labels.

It's the isness of all things.A dog doesn't know truth or false.A tree ditto.Ask them lol may be if they could talk their thoughts out they will answer,"What do you mean truth?Truth is today.Not tomorrow not yesterday.Truth....is ....toodaaaay."
Here's one to a new level of thinking brother

~ Chad Tyrone
 

Chad Tyrone

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
210
A big part of frame control and being able to talk to and relate to a great many people, is being able to consider everything.

It takes putting your own judgements and hang ups aside and being able to see things from every aspect.

Truth is there is no such thing as the truth. Truth is what you deem to believe in at the moment. It’s not concrete, it’s fluid and subjective to the person.

What may be true in one moment, may not be true in the next. When you consider the good and the bad, or the evil and the just, as mutually exclusive truth’s, you can start to see how everything is connected in one way or another.

This gives you the freedom of frames, because you can consider everything, and it gives you the ability to relate to things you may not relate to as a person per say.

And when you speak, you can speak a truth not easily challenged, because you’re considering all sides, and it’s objectively hard to argue with someone who can look past their own agenda and at the bigger picture.

Most people are biased in their frame work. They only communicate frames that align with their beliefs and agenda or situation. They have things they like and things they don’t.

When you can understand why the things they like aren’t so great and why the things they don’t are only that way because of how they’re framing it. You can flip their frame upside down, and they can’t argue it because they never considered why the things they don’t like might be likeable to other people.

This is powerful two fold because when you consider everything you can see how things on two different ends of the spectrum aren’t all that different in the first place. You see how they connect.

When you can communicate how you’re really talking about the same thing, although different on the surface. You can bring people into your frame because your frames are the same in a way.

For examples sake lets say you have a girl who claims she never gives oral. She just doesn’t it’s gross and she may catch a std.

Well she’s already kissed you. You’re more likely to get a std from kissing than oral sex. And even so oral sex is just skin to skin contact, if she’s kissed you, she’s essentially kissed your dick (lol). In the same way that shaking hands is no more intimate that hugging someone.

Yes there’s more contact in a hug, but the hands are much dirtier than the body. In the same way that the lips are much dirtier than the genitals. They’re more exposed to the elements.

And you both care greatly about your hygiene. So although your lips may not be dirty it’s safe to say that your genitals, your more intimate of areas, are much more taken care of.

Is this the truth? Yes and no.

In the same way having sex is like eating food. Is it done to accomplish some biologal need or to bond in some greater way? Sure. But even more so it’s done for pleasure. If we had the option to take some flavorless pill and be satiated for the day.

Most people would still opt to eat food because it’s an enjoyable experience. People like the feelings, and experiences that come from eating food and having sex.

It doesn’t have to be done to feed some social purpose. Because at the end of the day we do things we like because we like to do them.

It’s being like water because you are neutral in your reception. You don’t agree nor disagree fully. And once you understand their frame and where they’re coming from you can respond using the elements that they gave you. As a wave.

You understand their truth and respond with a greater truth that includes theirs.
Great analogy there:cool:
 

themino

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
65
"Don't you believe that all we know is a result of all the years of learning and conditioning we have undergone since our childhood"
Societal conditioning is simply a lack of truth. The masses do not care about truth and I don't care about the masses. Upon understanding the truth ( GC providers/lovers roles for example) you become enlightened, maybe even gain power
A good start to such a mental model is just believing don't question it.

Be the observer of your thoughts,not the judge.

there is no judgement, no belief, only truth. You don't need to believe gravity exists, because if you try to deny it and fight gravity you will ALWAYS fall to the ground. Unless you discovered a new truth about physics/flight etc. This is the power of truth. Denying this is not practical. Upon falling to the ground you will know in your fucking bones that you can not fucking fly. no judgement, no belief, only truth.

It's nature and we can't question it it's just a waste of time.Tomes of books may have been written about nature but who knows there's more to nature other than what we know.

Nature does not give a shit if you believe truth doesn't exist, for truth is an unstoppable force of nature that doesn't care if you die.
Truth has inherent power. Whether you waste your time is up to you.

I don't question nature. I fucking harness it.
 
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Chad Tyrone

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
210
Societal conditioning is simply a lack of truth. The masses do not care about truth and I don't care about the masses. Upon understanding the truth ( GC providers/lovers roles for example) you become enlightened, maybe even gain power
Glad we agree on this.Get this though .That you believe you can be a lover and get women in bed is truth in and of itself and that someone else(uninitiated) believes something else other than your thinking (lover route) is false to you,right?

Again ,the" uninitiated " doesn't believe that he could be a lover to women and get them in bed.It's false to them but it's truth to you.It would be a logic fail if you told him so.He sees that all you have to get women is be kind to them and don't dare piss them off.It's truth to them and some of them get laid from such thinking but it's such a huge amount of time you invest into finally getting a girl.We agree this is false, right?

But introduce them to the seduction arts and they are open to new ideas and are willing to go out there and put these new ideas to test and prove that yes this works.Over time their once" false" thinking is abandoned and they get truth.Finally tying with what I have been getting at where false or rather unawareness ends truth or rather awareness begins and vice versa.

The thinking of "where Truth exists ,false exists" is beyond the scope of all this and would become a book in and of itself.If you would be interested in such a topic I would recommend Zen Mind Beginners Mind,Buddhism and other spiritual books.


there is no judgement, no belief, only truth. You don't need to believe gravity exists, because if you try to deny it and fight gravity you will ALWAYS fall to the ground. Unless you discovered a new truth about physics/flight etc. This is the power of truth. Denying this is not practical. Upon falling to the ground you will know in your fucking bones that you can not fucking fly. no judgement, no belief, only truth.
I believe that gravity and "humans cannot fly" ( though they are videos out there on levitation) lol.I believe this cause I'm a realist .

I also would advocate such a kind of thinking in seduction and I won't tell you that every woman on earth would long for your schlong cause then I wouldn't be realistic..It would get messier if you applied my thinking to seduction cause it will be patchy.However,I choose to believe how I believe cause I learned to and works for me.

It's not that I'm denying all you are saying it's just that I know it's there but it's at the same time not there.Give me a book about chess I will read it all ingrain all the ideas into my brain and then forget all the ideas and choose to play chess.The ideas I learned are still there but I still don't believe that the ideas are what defines chess.(Not to mean that I can change the rules of chess handed down by grandmasters).I accept things and still don't accept them fully.U know what I mean.

This is how I choose to believe.This....is Enlightenment.
Nature does not give a shit if you believe truth doesn't exist, for truth is an unstoppable force of nature that doesn't care if you die.
Truth has inherent power. Whether you waste your time is up to you.

I don't question nature. I fucking harness it.
Again I agree .Since the dawn of time we all have been harnessing the forces of nature in all or most of our endeavors so to speak.Yap,it doesn't give a fuck if you harness it or not,it will still operate.Those who harness it have power, those who refuse to harness it get beaten to the punch.Yeah and we both don't question it.

But what's nature and I refuse to believe in words defined by a dictionary.What's the nitty gritty of all it all .I wanna savor it's meat I don't want to taste it.I wanna take it all in ,in all it's essence.I wanna squeeze the juice out of it and leave it completely dry.I want to see how it operates, what makes it work, what prevents it from working.i want "everything" concerning it....

Ignorance...is bliss at times.
~Chad
 

Rakehell

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Mar 28, 2021
Messages
683
. Truth exists. 1+1 = 2 ALWAYS. Thats is why it's practical. Truth the most solid frame from which to stand on. Truth is the only thing that exists.
@themino You’re arguing semantics. Facts are important in debates yes, not so much in talking to people. You aren’t trying to drive a point. You’re directing the narrative, while making yourself relateable .

The use of truth was in the context of beliefs. Who you are and who she thinks she is.

Hope this clarifies a bit
 
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Chad Tyrone

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
210
@themino You’re arguing semantics. Facts are important in debates yes, not so much in talking to people. You aren’t trying to drive a point. You’re directing the narrative, and making yourself relateable .

The use of truth was in the context of beliefs. Who you are and who she thinks she is.

Hope this clarifies a bit
Yeah I bet it sheds more light to him
 

themino

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
65
You aren’t trying to drive a point. You’re directing the narrative, while making yourself relateable .

The use of truth was in the context of beliefs. Who you are and who she thinks she is.

Hope this clarifies a bit
There's the truth. summed up in two sentences.

thank you

namaste
 

Beck Bass

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
635
This is not practical. What do you do when she disagrees with your frame, because it isn't the truth? Since it isn't truth it can be shown as false. Why not use the truth? Truth can't be false by definition. This whole "there is no truth" frame is false. Truth exists. 1+1 = 2 ALWAYS. Thats is why it's practical. Truth the most solid frame from which to stand on. Truth is the only thing that exists. You stand on water that while flexible is not strong. You will face resistance when the world does not respond to your frame, forcing you to float around the issue like water crashing upon sold rock.

see the truth in all things
The "truth" is just the current state of the system, there's not absolute truth. Humans are the dominant race, the most sucessful/smart animal, that is "true", now, but humans didn't exist for most of the universe's existence.
Therefore, truth is something completely relative, specially considering we humans have faulty perception of our reality. How many times were you wrong about something, because you don't know the whole picture? If you don't see your girl cheating, "your truth" is she hasn't cheated, if it seems like she did, even if she didn't, "your truth" is she did it (until she proves you were wrong, in the past).

So our concept of "truth" is just the state of things are far as we can percieve it.
Even 1+1 = 2 can be false, because if eventually there's nothing, there's no 1, there's nothing, only 0 + 0 = 0.

So you gotta see that frame control is about merging in the view of the person(s) you're with, and expanding on it, on the direction you wanna go. If you just try to fight it, you're denying this other's person experience, and they are not going consider what you have to say, so you have no influence under them (I won't use the term "control" over them because it's a bit dumb, you can't really control what other people do, we are all free, you can only maybe control what they percieve). So the best way you can influence other people is being as flexible as possible to new ideas, and listening and giving your thoughts about them to other people.

What you refer as truth is just the optimal way of doing certain things. Yes, people might be "wrong" when they, for example, say one fruit is better than other, when you know the other fruit is better for you, in your experience, and maybe on the experience on a bunch of people you know. But, who knows, maybe this person doesn't know this fruit, or doesn't have access to it, or is allergic to it. All of this makes "your truth" not "their truth". How much you can make "your truth" "their truth" is how much you can influence them, how much frame control you can have. Can you show them this better fruit? Can you supply then with it? Can they fight this allergy, is it worth it, is there a similar fruit that they are not allergic to? (those fruit analogies are getting out of hand lol).

Another thing to add is then, that obviously one of the things that follows from that is that expanding your own "horizons" or just knowledge in general of the world is expanding your power to influence other people (hopefully to make their lives better, and yours too, in the process). A game I played has a character with a cool quote on that (in fact, the whole game was about dealing with people different than you and ideas clashing, that the world - Shibuya in Japan, in this game - is an "idea battlefield"), I highly recommend this game!

16a43404fbcccc52738ee4d863f24b2a.png
 
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