From Loser to Winner

[Lucid]

I have some experience but I'm not an experienced guy.

I read on GC every day, even when I'm at work.
I go out alone about every weekend.
I have almost no friends.
I'm not in any real social circles.
Girls look at me fairly often.

My colleagues like me. They used to treat me only nicely, but now they joke and banter with me.
I'm rarely swayed by the social pressure I'm exposed to these days.

I'm a low-energy guy at the core who once in his life mistakenly learned a few things about how he should act socially.

• He was told to be social, so he started trying to talk a lot.
• He was told to be less modest, so he tried to quit being humble.

In addition, he also learned early in life that the cool kids would hurt him because they would all sooner or later be disloyal to him. Thus, he switched to safe, loyal, and boring friends. He still had a tendency to end up with the cool kids anyway... because for some strange reason they liked being with him. But he didn't always even know they were the cool kids initially. He just wanted to be with them because he thought they were fun to hang with.


I'm not sure about where this is headed, so I'll cut to the chase. I'm in need of serious progress. Slipping completely back into porn, as I've done lately, is a clear sign of that.

I'm 21.
I haven't had sex yet.
I haven't dated a girl yet.
I haven't had a girlfriend (I had one when I was 12 who I never spoke to in person despite us going in the same class) yet.


I don't know what you're thinking about me right now. Maybe you think I'm like all the other beginners, or maybe you think I'm incredibly weird. I suppose it doesn't matter.


I was not raised a winner.
But I am going to become one.


I've been to a pick-up course in my country where I did some approaches at nightclubs, of which went badly. But I learned at that course that my mindset was still largely negative, and that was the first thing I worked on reversing after the course. I also learned that I was too tense when I was out - I didn't have many positive experiences being out with people. So I started going out - usually alone, and sometimes with a fellow seduction-learner I met at the course.

I'm not sure exactly what I want to ask right now, to be honest. But I wrote this because I'm starting to feel stuck.
I'll be honest about one more thing. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong at this point. But maybe I am. Hell, I must be. And maybe you can point it out to me.


I've done meditation and visualization, but I want to know what sex feels like in real life. I want to know how it feels like to be all alone with a girl when attraction's in the air.

 

[Smith]

I'm 21.
I haven't had sex yet.
I haven't dated a girl yet.
I haven't had a girlfriend (I had one when I was 12 who I never spoke to in person despite us going in the same class) yet.

That sounds like me when I turned 21 last year lol. I've been through some of your experience, like the cool kids being disloyal and stuff, but they were just so fun to hang out with. I also didn't have that many friends until I decided to push my comfort zone.

I'm not sure exactly what I want to ask right now, to be honest. But I wrote this because I'm starting to feel stuck.
I'll be honest about one more thing. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong at this point. But maybe I am. Hell, I must be. And maybe you can point it out to me.

That's interesting. Why do u think ur not doing anything wrong?

Write a FR or a journal. Usually as you're writing it, you'll figure out where things had gone wrong.

Keep sticking to the process and learn from your mistakes. Things will start to fall into place eventually!

- Smith

 

[Lucid]

That's interesting. Why do u think ur not doing anything wrong?

Write a FR or a journal. Usually as you're writing it, you'll figure out where things had gone wrong.

Keep sticking to the process and learn from your mistakes. Things will start to fall into place eventually!

- Smith

Mainly because I'm seeing a lot of improvement internally, just not externally - that is, no results with girls to speak of. I'm going through different stages, and I feel like I'm just getting better and better. I do keep a journal. It's definitely helped a lot, I believe reflecting and analyzing is what makes me able to improve in a relatively short amount of time.

Right now I feel like my attitude is a mixture between Devil May Care and just a lack of motivation and being bored with people. It's like I know what will make things fun is if I get to know cool people or talk to cute girls, but I just don't do it. Like I know what to do logically but not emotionally.

I have some high thoughts about myself. Sometimes I will think that certain girls would almost swoon for me if I just talked to them, yet I don't do it.

Opportunities are rare to come by, therefore I want to create them for myself. But it's difficult right now. I tried once when I was out alone during the day to just decide to approach some women, but I couldn't get myself to do it still. I've thought about doing it while I was out a hell of a lot more times, but that time I consciously decided to do it without any success.


I started thinking about seriously trying to make some new friends today. Read the article here on it. Maybe I need to more or less start approaching girls by going social circle. I also want to surround myself with at least some fairly successful people, and not only regular guys.

 

[Smith]

Mainly because I'm seeing a lot of improvement internally, just not externally - that is, no results with girls to speak of

Sometimes results won't come for a while, but stick to the process and enjoy what you're doing.

I have some high thoughts about myself. Sometimes I will think that certain girls would almost swoon for me if I just talked to them, yet I don't do it.

That's your ego protecting you. the thought of those certain girls getting swoon by you is satisfying enough to feed your ego yet they're just thoughts, not reality.

Can you actually sleep with them?

I think this could be what's holding you back. Leave your ego at the door when you go out.

 

[PrettyDecent]

Lucid,

Yeah, man, it's just the grind. There are going to be sooo many days before you start getting real results that you ask yourself, "is it a possibility that I'll ever get laid". Logically, you feel like you're executing all the correct steps, and you can't figure out which step is missing. Because the changes you make in yourself come in very small increments, and it's the accumulation of those small increments that finally get you laid. So the grind is where you'll see many a men exit stage left from pickup because there's a lot of doubt and lack of faith whether or not it's possible.

Then one day, somehow, you FINALLY manage to get laid, and you're elated like no other event in your life because you realize that, yes, pickup is possible for you, too. You've "cracked the code", as Alek has put it.

I'm not sure exactly what I want to ask right now, to be honest. But I wrote this because I'm starting to feel stuck.
I'll be honest about one more thing. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong at this point. But maybe I am. Hell, I must be. And maybe you can point it out to me.

Right, so you don't need advice on technique, per se - you'll eventually figure that out on your own. What you need is a reminder to maintain your grit. You're well on you're way to becoming successful in the art of seduction, you just need to trudge ahead and keep micro-course correcting until you see what works.

That said, I'll try and give specific advice that would've expedited my own learning process: in order to really make strides in seduction you can't have ANY Approach Anxiety. Go out and approach 20 women, and you won't look back on it. After that, you need to be inviting girls home constantly. That's really the fastest way to

1.) See if what you're doing works, and if not, what needs tweaking
2.) Get sexual experiences and have practice escalating physically (with the added benefit that you'll probably get laid)

And read this article: What to Do to Get Past a Sticking Point

You'll kill it, man. Just keep going.

~Nick

 

[ray_zorse]

It seems to me you're OK to approach girls but concerned you might not have what it takes to back it up...so I'd suggest practicing your conversation with everyone you meet. I didn't try a direct opener until I got better at conversation. You'll have a lot more confidence when you know you can back it up...and conversation is easy really, the golden rule is if you're not sure what to say, ask them a question about themselves...there are of course lots more techniques such as giving them a menu of options..."so, tell me about yourself...are you a student, do you work, ...?" or using baiting or whatever...but what really nails it is (1) make it about them (2) ask questions (3) PRACTICE!!!

I wouldn't bother comparing yourself to others. The fact that you're here means you're committed to improving. I suppose I can illustrate this with a story about video games...my housemate came home with Street Fighter on a SNES (yeah OK OK this sounds a bit dated haha but if its made after 1990 I don't know what it is) and he and my brother proceeded to kick my arse...I knew how to play...but was getting very frustrated and trying too hard and getting visibly hot under the collar so they kept laughing at me while kicking my arse...so what I did was to begin calling in at my mum's house during the day where she had an old SNES that used to belong to my brother...and practicing the fuck out of Street Fighter and after some months could not only kick their arses anytime but beat all the bosses too...this's what you'll be like with the ladies

cheers, Ray

 

[Glitch]

Back from Summer Hiatus.

First of all there is nothing to be ashamed of. Nothing.

First just work on yourself, just do the things that make you happy first and foremost. Hit the gym if you haven't already.

I was like you for my first year of Uni, I had quite a few serious problems during 16-18. With those things I got pretty withdrawn and isolate myself to try and find a solution. The thing is there was no solution, I just had to endure and live with it. So in the first year of Uni my social skills were down the pan where I made 1 proper friend and a load of "aquaintances", the only thing I knew was how to game girls in my free time was the only thing I knew. It was fun but also unfufiling at the same time due the lack of social circle I built.

Only now has my social skills started improving, less angry about my situation and actively approach and engage to build up the circle.

In all honesty building up a solid set of friends is difficult, ones you can really rely on but most of the time the one you rely on is you.

For now, why not just take random opportunities? As for building friends having an open mind is working for me and then just cutting the ones that don't jive with your own vibe.

I'm a low key type myself but don't get so secluded go and take chances.

Best of luck and keep us up to date,

Glitch

 

[Lucid]

Thanks guys. Really glad to hear all your advice and motivational words. I think I'd be a lot less motivated if I didn't write this post and get feedback from you guys. Feels like my brain has been fogged lately, and I couldn't really think of anything productive to reply on here. I feel like I can think a bit clearer now, having been off porn for a week, and I've come to two new realizations at this point:

1. I must learn to not be tricked by my brain, and start tricking it instead.

I got the idea after reading Ricardus' article "How to Get What You Want (with Women and Life)". In the end of the article, he describes how you can trick your brain three times in order to successfully approach a girl - basically because the primitive part of the brain thinks hitting on a stranger girl will get you killed, and you therefore have to trick it into believing you're not going to hit on her. (Read the brilliant article if this is something for you, link: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-get-what-you-want-women-and-life)

I coupled that with seeing me relapsing to porn as my own brain tricking me. The internet pornography's function for me was in essence to be a painkiller that took care of my immediate sexual frustration. Spent the entire Saturday night in clubs and bars and didn't even manage to talk to a girl? Jack off to porn when you get home. "Doing that will be the worst possible thing to do period" is what I think beforehand, yet I do it anyway. The brain wants tender care when things don't turn out as it wanted to, when it didn't get that sexual release it was seeking. Instead of sucking it up and saying "okay, you didn't make it today, but you'll make it soon enough, now go to bed, it's the best thing you can do now", it does all in its power to cheat its way to get that release. And the more I let all that happen, the more I feel like I can't get sex with a real girl, and the more like a failure I feel.

So my principle now has to be that I will be the one doing the tricking, not the brain. Essentially, I'm taking control of my impulses and turning them in such a direction so that I can get what I really want instead of getting what makes me feel miserable.


And then, in order to make this actually work, I must start getting some successes. Because god knows I haven't had a lot of success in my life so far, and constant non-progress/failure kills motivation. It's kinda killing me right now, to be honest. And that's where the second realization comes in...

2. My learning process until now has been largely flawed.

I understood this today when I read Chase's latest newsletter. What do you practice first when you're learning a new skill? The basics. I've been doing some basic stuff on and off, like improving my conversational skills, but I don't work hard and I rarely work smart. I haven't been very structured in my work of learning seduction as a skill; I suppose my mindset has been more or less "read a lot of articles on girlschase so you really know how to behave around girls, and try your best to start approaching girls on the street or girls in clubs and bars! Then try to get sex as soon as you're having a good interaction with a girl." It needs to be a lot more refined than that. I am going to find out exactly what the first thing I need to work on is, and exactly how to work on it.


So, to wrap it up, I'll be going to gain control over my own brain, and learn basics before advanced stuff, and learn it well before practicing something entirely different.


Just got to say one more thing. Everyone says this, but I really am glad I found out about girlschase. I feel that I might be able to get successes into my life. I can hardly see any real successes in my past, and I believe it was largely due to me not approaching the learning of a skill in an effective way. Plus of course that I used to tell myself "I'm just not good at it", I used to complain, and I used to not understand why others succeeded at stuff when I didn't, and I spent a lot of energy thinking about what was "fair" and what wasn't.

I hope what I wrote here is understandable and of interest. I spent around an hour writing this message and I'm feeling a bit tired now, but it felt like it was necessary. All I want is to push myself forward so I can change and succeed.

 

[ray_zorse]

It's good to see a bit of grit and in general it's good to see acknowledgement of one's mistakes and identification of where to improve, but I cannot help feeling you are being rather too hard on yourself! Try to approach your process of self improvement from the viewpoint that although you have no regrets up until this point (because you were focusing on completely different areas of your life and/or did not have the information or self-knowledge or the reason/motivation to improve your seduction/social skills), every hour spent and every skill acquired will be beneficial. So if you have an off day or take a step backward then you won't beat yourself up but rather just focus on your progress and what you've learnt.
cheers, Ray

 

[Adam101]

You've taken the most important step in the first place which is deciding to improve. Most people don't even think to try or don't care to or are too scared. And it sounds like you've already made some great personal strides. If you keep at it you will continue to grow and so will your experiences and successes. I've only really been at this for a few months myself, and while I still have yet to enjoy a great female experience here are some things that I have experienced so far:

- Being approached by women
- Dirty grinding with women
- Kissing a girl within 5 minutes of meeting her
- Getting a girl wet between her legs just by talking to her
- Making a girl "uncomfortable" because of the high amount of sexual tension I was able to create
- A new friend who happens to be a professional dancer and a new going out buddy
- A woman buying me a drink
- Men buying me drinks (this happens often for some reason)
- Making a girl's night with a simple compliment after a fight with her boyfriend
- Made acquaintances with bar owners and DJs

And there are several more. I share them though because for a long time I never got to experience any of this stuff and now that I am it feels monumental. What's even more incredible is knowing that there's still so much more to experience. And all of this has happened because I simply decided to take responsibility for myself and go after what I want (with the help of this site and its community of course). You can do the same. If you put yourself out there you'll be surprised at some of the reactions you'll get and who ends up being receptive to you. And the more you do it the easier it becomes and then you can push yourself to the next step.

The other thing to remember though is that this is a long, slow, incremental journey. People tend to look at the final product of someone and think "Wow they have it all..." But what people often don't see or think about is all of the hard work that went into becoming that person. Someone I always think of is Jon Hamm AKA Don Draper. Nearly every woman alive wants to fuck this man, but you know what? That wasn't the case until his 40's, because until that time he was just waiter Jon doing his best. But he kept at it and he made it and now look where he's at. It can be the same for you in your own way. Be proud of your triumphs no matter how small and do your best to learn from your mistakes. As the old saying goes it's about the journey not the destination so you may as well have fun along the way.

I also have to commend ray_zorse for his reference to Street Fighter. I enjoy those types of games and make personal analogies to that with my seduction game and it helps tremendously. I plan on making as many approaches as I have thrown Hadoukens & Shoryukens. Anyway keep it up man and take pride in what you are doing for yourself.

 

[Lucid]

It's good to see a bit of grit and in general it's good to see acknowledgement of one's mistakes and identification of where to improve, but I cannot help feeling you are being rather too hard on yourself! Try to approach your process of self improvement from the viewpoint that although you have no regrets up until this point (because you were focusing on completely different areas of your life and/or did not have the information or self-knowledge or the reason/motivation to improve your seduction/social skills), every hour spent and every skill acquired will be beneficial. So if you have an off day or take a step backward then you won't beat yourself up but rather just focus on your progress and what you've learnt.
cheers, Ray

I've thought about what you said all day, and maybe I AM too hard on myself... Maybe I am actually too obsessed with becoming a great seducer? The only thing I really like to do now is working out (bodybuilding-ish). I liked practicing seduction skills... but it's like I never got really started. The boot-camp-ish course I went to was kind of like getting started... but it wasn't a very positive experience for me, although it was one I learned something important from.

When I work out, I get a positive experience from doing it. My muscles burn and get sore, I see progress in the amount of weight I'm able to lift, and I generally feel pretty decent after a workout.
When I approached girls during that course, I didn't get a positive experience after doing it. Talking to girls only led to curt answers or being ignored. The last evening I actually felt really shitty, the others had to really talk me into putting on a happy face before we went into the last bar. And when we went in I just stood there, trying to seem happy while feeling horrible, nervous and uncomfortable. [This was about 2 months ago]

Got me thinking.. the first time I trained strength, I was with a buddy. He was the one who dragged me into it, we signed up for the same gym together, and he was pretty motivated to train. We always trained together, and he challenged me often, and we also knew another guy there who challenged the both of us even more. It was very tough to start training like this, I was only used to running and not lifting weights. Many things puzzled me in the beginning, such as how many sets I was supposed to do, how many reps, how much weight, what exercises, etc, etc. I saw someone else doing something different than I did at the gym, and I'd start wondering about that too. I started on a program I got from a personal trainer at the gym, and my, let's just call him mentor, at that point said it was completely bullshit. I didn't believe him, so I did some research and started with the program anyway. Eventually I found out that only old people and very casual trainers follow that kind of program, and that wasn't how I wanted to train.

Anyway, what I'm seeing is that I had a learning curve. I started like that, not even being able to pick a training program, whereas now I can make training programs on my own. I got pushed forward by my grit/willingness to keep at it, by research, and by being motivated and challenged by others.

I'll try to figure out a similar way to approach seduction as a skill right now, and why I haven't been doing it already. When I started working out I was very interested in the idea of building muscles and a strong body.. When I started reading girlschase I got very interested in being a chick magnet and getting dates and sex. But it also involves a lot of previous defeats seeing I was always a shy guy at school and never took proper action with the girls I liked, as opposed to training with weights, which I had no prior experience doing at all.

- Being approached by women
- Dirty grinding with women
- Kissing a girl within 5 minutes of meeting her
- Getting a girl wet between her legs just by talking to her
- Making a girl "uncomfortable" because of the high amount of sexual tension I was able to create

Sounds like great female experiences to me. Only good experience I can think of with girls I have is when the cute girl at work I asked out said yes, however, she basically declined that date later (replied to my text after a week and said she'd take a coffee with me but only as a friend), so it comes with mixed emotions.

 

[Lucid]

While discussing with myself to my dictaphone today about how I might have been too hard on myself, a sentence popped into my head: Just flow, and make the changes as you go. I think the easiest way to describe what that means for me would be this:

I come into a social situation as Lucid, not as Mr. "Has-read-everything-he-needs-to-know-about-how-to-behave-socially-on-girlschase.com". So instead of preparing to not make any mistakes by controlling my behavior consciously all the time, I'll just note down how I feel, what I did wrong, and what I should do instead the next time it happens whenever I feel like I've come off in a "wrong" way socially, or if there is something I don't understand that's happened. This way I can improve my social and seductive skills while still behaving naturally, and I believe I should notice a difference in my ability to build connections and not being as focused on the "how" in the conversation I'm having as the "what". Because it's so frustrating sometimes when I'm talking with people, and I'll start thinking about e.g. how our eye contact is instead of what we're actually talking about.. and then suddenly the person's done talking and I don't know what to say.

I think this is a lot more relevant to me right now than the other two things I listed. I hope I'm onto something here and that this can make the journey more manageable and enjoyable.

 

[ray_zorse]

That's how it works for me. Well I had an outing last night where I spoke to shitloads of girls but as I'm hopeless at bar & club game made many mistakes and didn't get to post LR #1 hehe.. so went out today for some half hearted daygame but didn't have the balls to approach at least not with direct opener. One of these I'm particularly pissed off about cos I caught her checking me out and then I ejected instead of opening. Fuck. But next time I'll be prepared for that situation. Honestly if you could see how bad I am at this, and probably a lot of the new guys, you would feel better about your own learning process, hahaha the only key is to ACT
cheers, Ray

 

[Glitch]

I recommend building up a social circle, I was pretty closed off last year too. I was kind of obsessed (???) with approaching highs and was focused on girls and study. MAke sure to balance everything out.

Most of all remember to have fun! This is a journey and a pretty interesting one at that. The advice given is already paramount. There's no improvement without failure and understanding why we failed.

Paraphrased quote from one of the GC articles:

"Don't compare yourself to where the masters are now. Compare yourself to the masters that were where you are now; at one point in time, a master was there too."