FR++ From the train to home... but not a lay

[ChrisXKiss]

Just had this happen in fact. I've been in a huge dry period lately, to the point that I have been feeling similar to before I lost my virginity, meaning that all the girls are out there but whether they like me or not I cannot have sex.

I decided to go to tonight a club I know that has free entrance as well. Had some interactions there but nothing special, most of my approaches get immediate rejections, and I include the ones that I feel but leave to not make the rejection official for negative social proof. It feels almost impossible to hook girls in this place, I mean I've had one same night lay from there but generally I get ignored almost all the time, and it's not like I can say something to change the course of the interaction, there is a negative or indifferent vibe from the first moment of the approaches. There are a lot of groups of young guys and girls while I am a bit older in general, and also not speaking the local language, so maybe I just don't feel integrated enough and my attainability is too low. Not sure how exactly to approach it though, even the "older" women there either seem to be married/engaged literally showing me their rings, or attention whores/ gold diggers, I once had a girl in the place even tell me she is lesbian but just goes there to find money from guys.

Anyway, wanted to mention it because it is a place where I do find women whose looks I like but I have not found a way to make it work. The high entrance charges of other venues have been a reason for me focusing on this one, but I guess I should at least explore a bit more. The approach I want to mention in this report though happened in the night train I took, going back home from the city centre to my place.

I entered the wagon and went and stood at the stairs leading to the upper floor. I saw there two girls sitting close to each other focused on their mobiles. For a moment I thought firstly who I would like to approach, and whether I should wait for any of them to take a break from the phone. Then I realised I only have 5 minutes for my station and took some steps up and approached the first girl. I told her something along the lines of " Hey I saw you as I was going up, and you have something really feminine about you". Can't remember the exact line as I usually say, feminine, elegant, lovely, classy, and then if I get a positive reaction, I continue with something along the lines of "Yeah, it's something unique, at the same time sweet but also elegant". So i'm basically explaining a bit what I find special about her.

This one did give a positive reaction. She had a very open smile, and she seemed open to me, I mean open for some new experience during the night. As I said I had less than five minutes in the train until my station, so after exchanging names and asking her whether she's going back home from partying, I learned that she stops two stations after me. Then I invited her for an afterdrink pretty directly. She asked if I meant my station, I said yes, so she wanted to know if I know a place. I told her we will find a place for sure, and she started resisting saying she had to go back to sleep.

That's when I thought: ok time to persist. I told her she can come just for a bit, maybe half an hour, or even fifteen minutes and then go back to her station. She wondered when the next train would be, so I took the phone out, checked the connections and saw it was in one hour. So I told her, we go, chill for a bit and you take the next one. She was still hesitant, and I kept looking at her unfazed as we were arriving in my station. At some point I just told her: "Let's go", so she was like: "Alright let's do it".

After coming down from the train I started walking towards my place while talking to her. The walk is about 7-8 minutes, during that time we exchanged nationalities, I asked what she has been up to and what she enjoys, and I tried to keep the conversation rolling so as not to have an awkward moment during this transition. At some point she realised what was happening and asked me if I was taking her to my place, to which I answered yes and that I have some nice wines, without stopping to walk.

When we arrived at the outside door of my building she stopped and told me she wasn't coming up as I was putting in the keys. I told her it's just for 15 minutes and I promised her a drink anyway and the moment she wanted to leave she would. She was resisting saying I could kill her, to which I responded I could have already done it in these empty streets we walked and if she wanted I could give her all my details so she can text them to her friends. Then I told her once more to come, and she eventually said ok, but only for 10 minutes.

We went in and up the stairs in my apartment at the first floor. One thing she asked during that is if my apartment was clean and if I had prepared it for tonight. I said I didn't plan on finding her randomly in the train, and that I hope my apartment is clean in general and I am trying to be taking care of it. When we went in, she took off her shoes, went and washed her hands in the bathroom and then sat at my couch/bed in my only room with my normal bed on the opposite side. I took out the wine opened it and brought the glasses and during that she asked me my age. I told her what she thought, she wasn't sure, so I asked about her age and said she looked in her twenties, and honestly I was a bit focused on opening the wine at that moment so I feel I forgot to mention what my exact age is. Then I went and washed my hands and came and sat next to her.

I had some anxiety during all that, probably due to the fact I haven't had sex for a long while, so even how things would go in bed is something I am unsure about, meaning how I would perform. I tried to relax myself with some breathing when in the bathroom, and then focusing on the moment. While taking sips from our wine glasses, she talked a bit about how she liked the glasses, then asked when I came to this house, and at some point as I was lying back on a cushion I told her to come chill back as well. She complied but she was still a bit away. At some point though I simply leaned in, gave her two kisses, and then went back and told her I liked them.

Then we went into some normal conversation again. I had felt from the kisses that she was accepting me, but was not really engaged that much, there was some barrier. At that moment she asked me whether I have downloaded tinder. I wanted to find out why, so she said that normally stuff like that happens from there, while I came up to her in the train. I told her that I have used tinder, sometimes it goes better, sometimes worse, but I prefer meeting people in real vibe, because you don't only have a still picture, but you can also assess someones vibe. She then told me something along the lines of not having much of a dating life after erasing tinder. A bit after that I took the glass from her hand, looked at her for a bit and went in for a kiss and then a neck kiss. Initially she was more receptive than previously, but after some moment she felt like pulling back so I stopped.

Then she said she had to leave, and I responded that ok. She asked if I am planning to go out at night tomorrow again, and I said I am not sure, because my Saturday is really busy so it depends, and I explained exactly what I have planned for tomorrow, then asked for her plans. During this interaction I also told her that I appreciate how much and genuinely she smiles and how open towards life she generally looks from the moment I met her. She still wanted to go, I told her to come a bit closer and she didn't, so not sure what else to do, I simply went in again trying to give more passionate kisses and holding her tighter, lifting her in a more upright position, trying to take her hands to wrap around me, but she then resisted and insisted on leaving, starting to gather her stuff.

I told her alright she can leave, then as she was going I grabbed and pushed her against the wall making out, but she stopped it pretty fast, and she also took of my hand when I tried to rub her pussy above her pants. I didn't want to feel more pushy at that moment, because she was next to the door, putting on her shoes asking to leave, so I simply opened and let her go offering to take her back to the train station.

She said no and that the city is very safe which is true, but I still went down as she was leaving fast and followed her a bit, she stopped and waited eventually and I told her, I brought her here in the middle of the night so I am gonna guide her back to the station at least. We talked a bit more during that time, I told her I saw something special in her, which is true by the way as she was quite cute in an exotic way and felt very sensual as well, and she doubted if I meant it and literally told me I was ready to take any girl from that train just for the sex. I told her I wouldn't be sad if we had sex, and I believe that in some ways the sexual connection is divine and is the purest form of two people connecting, and if I feel this energy I find it beautiful to go for it, but I still appreciated the whole time with her, and would be up to exchange numbers and maybe hang out some other time. After exchanging numbers she left to go to her platform to take her train.

To sum up, directly cold approached in a night train after club, persisted through some hesitant moments enough to get her to my place, but didn't manage to close the deal then. I don't have much hopes for the number by the way, but wanted to take it in any case. I believe the most important for me in all this is how I persisted, never done it so much, multiple times and especially with success so it felt great. I am pretty sure the main reason for things not happening in the end was that it all felt like she would just be another number for me, and I am not sure how much and well I could alleviate the concerns in the time frame I had, so any suggestion regarding that is welcome.

Because to be honest, when I am out, I find a lot of girls cute, and it is true that I would sleep with all of them potentially, but I still find them all unique, and would want to offer them a great experience. But especially lately that I really feel I want sex after all this time, it seems to be difficult to even come off as caring about the girl more as a person as well. And I don't want to give the interaction time as an excuse, as I also went to few longer dates that didn't lead anywhere. It seems I am stuck in a place where it either feels like I am going too fast with no consideration for the girl and only wanting sex, or I am too chill during the whole interaction with no real sexual tension so it feels unnatural and uncalibrated to make a move.

I suppose I have to start radiating more of an abundance mentality, showing sexual desire but still also showing real interest in people without overwhelming them. It is quite a fine line to walk, especially when you don't feel the abundance anywhere, but I am doing my best to emulate these behaviours. I am trying to think of sex as something beautiful I want to offer to women, but it is difficult when I also want it a lot and don't have it, to stop thinking of it as something I will eventually get from a woman by seducing her. At least I am putting effort into remaining in a positive state as much as I can, regardless all the rejections happening.

 

[Will_V]

Just had this happen in fact. I've been in a huge dry period lately, to the point that I have been feeling similar to before I lost my virginity, meaning that all the girls are out there but whether they like me or not I cannot have sex.

I decided to go to tonight a club I know that has free entrance as well. Had some interactions there but nothing special, most of my approaches get immediate rejections, and I include the ones that I feel but leave to not make the rejection official for negative social proof. It feels almost impossible to hook girls in this place, I mean I've had one same night lay from there but generally I get ignored almost all the time, and it's not like I can say something to change the course of the interaction, there is a negative or indifferent vibe from the first moment of the approaches. There are a lot of groups of young guys and girls while I am a bit older in general, and also not speaking the local language, so maybe I just don't feel integrated enough and my attainability is too low. Not sure how exactly to approach it though, even the "older" women there either seem to be married/engaged literally showing me their rings, or attention whores/ gold diggers, I once had a girl in the place even tell me she is lesbian but just goes there to find money from guys.

Anyway, wanted to mention it because it is a place where I do find women whose looks I like but I have not found a way to make it work. The high entrance charges of other venues have been a reason for me focusing on this one, but I guess I should at least explore a bit more. The approach I want to mention in this report though happened in the night train I took, going back home from the city centre to my place.

I entered the wagon and went and stood at the stairs leading to the upper floor. I saw there two girls sitting close to each other focused on their mobiles. For a moment I thought firstly who I would like to approach, and whether I should wait for any of them to take a break from the phone. Then I realised I only have 5 minutes for my station and took some steps up and approached the first girl. I told her something along the lines of " Hey I saw you as I was going up, and you have something really feminine about you". Can't remember the exact line as I usually say, feminine, elegant, lovely, classy, and then if I get a positive reaction, I continue with something along the lines of "Yeah, it's something unique, at the same time sweet but also elegant". So i'm basically explaining a bit what I find special about her.

This one did give a positive reaction. She had a very open smile, and she seemed open to me, I mean open for some new experience during the night. As I said I had less than five minutes in the train until my station, so after exchanging names and asking her whether she's going back home from partying, I learned that she stops two stations after me. Then I invited her for an afterdrink pretty directly. She asked if I meant my station, I said yes, so she wanted to know if I know a place. I told her we will find a place for sure, and she started resisting saying she had to go back to sleep.

That's when I thought: ok time to persist. I told her she can come just for a bit, maybe half an hour, or even fifteen minutes and then go back to her station. She wondered when the next train would be, so I took the phone out, checked the connections and saw it was in one hour. So I told her, we go, chill for a bit and you take the next one. She was still hesitant, and I kept looking at her unfazed as we were arriving in my station. At some point I just told her: "Let's go", so she was like: "Alright let's do it".

After coming down from the train I started walking towards my place while talking to her. The walk is about 7-8 minutes, during that time we exchanged nationalities, I asked what she has been up to and what she enjoys, and I tried to keep the conversation rolling so as not to have an awkward moment during this transition. At some point she realised what was happening and asked me if I was taking her to my place, to which I answered yes and that I have some nice wines, without stopping to walk.

When we arrived at the outside door of my building she stopped and told me she wasn't coming up as I was putting in the keys. I told her it's just for 15 minutes and I promised her a drink anyway and the moment she wanted to leave she would. She was resisting saying I could kill her, to which I responded I could have already done it in these empty streets we walked and if she wanted I could give her all my details so she can text them to her friends. Then I told her once more to come, and she eventually said ok, but only for 10 minutes.

We went in and up the stairs in my apartment at the first floor. One thing she asked during that is if my apartment was clean and if I had prepared it for tonight. I said I didn't plan on finding her randomly in the train, and that I hope my apartment is clean in general and I am trying to be taking care of it. When we went in, she took off her shoes, went and washed her hands in the bathroom and then sat at my couch/bed in my only room with my normal bed on the opposite side. I took out the wine opened it and brought the glasses and during that she asked me my age. I told her what she thought, she wasn't sure, so I asked about her age and said she looked in her twenties, and honestly I was a bit focused on opening the wine at that moment so I feel I forgot to mention what my exact age is. Then I went and washed my hands and came and sat next to her.

I had some anxiety during all that, probably due to the fact I haven't had sex for a long while, so even how things would go in bed is something I am unsure about, meaning how I would perform. I tried to relax myself with some breathing when in the bathroom, and then focusing on the moment. While taking sips from our wine glasses, she talked a bit about how she liked the glasses, then asked when I came to this house, and at some point as I was lying back on a cushion I told her to come chill back as well. She complied but she was still a bit away. At some point though I simply leaned in, gave her two kisses, and then went back and told her I liked them.

Then we went into some normal conversation again. I had felt from the kisses that she was accepting me, but was not really engaged that much, there was some barrier. At that moment she asked me whether I have downloaded tinder. I wanted to find out why, so she said that normally stuff like that happens from there, while I came up to her in the train. I told her that I have used tinder, sometimes it goes better, sometimes worse, but I prefer meeting people in real vibe, because you don't only have a still picture, but you can also assess someones vibe. She then told me something along the lines of not having much of a dating life after erasing tinder. A bit after that I took the glass from her hand, looked at her for a bit and went in for a kiss and then a neck kiss. Initially she was more receptive than previously, but after some moment she felt like pulling back so I stopped.

Then she said she had to leave, and I responded that ok. She asked if I am planning to go out at night tomorrow again, and I said I am not sure, because my Saturday is really busy so it depends, and I explained exactly what I have planned for tomorrow, then asked for her plans. During this interaction I also told her that I appreciate how much and genuinely she smiles and how open towards life she generally looks from the moment I met her. She still wanted to go, I told her to come a bit closer and she didn't, so not sure what else to do, I simply went in again trying to give more passionate kisses and holding her tighter, lifting her in a more upright position, trying to take her hands to wrap around me, but she then resisted and insisted on leaving, starting to gather her stuff.

I told her alright she can leave, then as she was going I grabbed and pushed her against the wall making out, but she stopped it pretty fast, and she also took of my hand when I tried to rub her pussy above her pants. I didn't want to feel more pushy at that moment, because she was next to the door, putting on her shoes asking to leave, so I simply opened and let her go offering to take her back to the train station.

She said no and that the city is very safe which is true, but I still went down as she was leaving fast and followed her a bit, she stopped and waited eventually and I told her, I brought her here in the middle of the night so I am gonna guide her back to the station at least. We talked a bit more during that time, I told her I saw something special in her, which is true by the way as she was quite cute in an exotic way and felt very sensual as well, and she doubted if I meant it and literally told me I was ready to take any girl from that train just for the sex. I told her I wouldn't be sad if we had sex, and I believe that in some ways the sexual connection is divine and is the purest form of two people connecting, and if I feel this energy I find it beautiful to go for it, but I still appreciated the whole time with her, and would be up to exchange numbers and maybe hang out some other time. After exchanging numbers she left to go to her platform to take her train.

To sum up, directly cold approached in a night train after club, persisted through some hesitant moments enough to get her to my place, but didn't manage to close the deal then. I don't have much hopes for the number by the way, but wanted to take it in any case. I believe the most important for me in all this is how I persisted, never done it so much, multiple times and especially with success so it felt great. I am pretty sure the main reason for things not happening in the end was that it all felt like she would just be another number for me, and I am not sure how much and well I could alleviate the concerns in the time frame I had, so any suggestion regarding that is welcome.

Because to be honest, when I am out, I find a lot of girls cute, and it is true that I would sleep with all of them potentially, but I still find them all unique, and would want to offer them a great experience. But especially lately that I really feel I want sex after all this time, it seems to be difficult to even come off as caring about the girl more as a person as well. And I don't want to give the interaction time as an excuse, as I also went to few longer dates that didn't lead anywhere. It seems I am stuck in a place where it either feels like I am going too fast with no consideration for the girl and only wanting sex, or I am too chill during the whole interaction with no real sexual tension so it feels unnatural and uncalibrated to make a move.

I suppose I have to start radiating more of an abundance mentality, showing sexual desire but still also showing real interest in people without overwhelming them. It is quite a fine line to walk, especially when you don't feel the abundance anywhere, but I am doing my best to emulate these behaviours. I am trying to think of sex as something beautiful I want to offer to women, but it is difficult when I also want it a lot and don't have it, to stop thinking of it as something I will eventually get from a woman by seducing her. At least I am putting effort into remaining in a positive state as much as I can, regardless all the rejections happening.

@ChrisXKiss well done on posting a field report! You did some things really well, and some other things not so much. But that's what field reports are for, to figure these things out.

When you get immediate rejections or girls closing off before you even open your mouth, it's ALWAYS a question of your nonverbals not being on point. It is never you that is the problem, but the vibe you give off in that moment.
It seems you felt anxious, not having had sex for a while, feeling like the older guy there, and feeling like you get ignored often at that venue. All this makes it hard to get into the right headspace, and that's likely the reason why girls looked at you and saw tension or negative emotions on your face and in the way you carried yourself, and shut things down.

The way through is not to try and hide the things that create the anxiety, but simply embrace/accept them: you can't change where you are right now, but you can and will change the future, and in the meantime, you'll focus on having a good time and enjoying being around other people.
People don't really care about the things you find embarrassing, they care about whether you are going to make them feel good to be around you. Pleasantness and fun is the basic social currency, not 'having your whole life in order', no one cares about that.

This is made even clearer by the fact that once you exited the social environment and went on your way home, you relaxed and ended up getting a good response to your first interaction on the train.

So the first lesson is to focus on is emotional control, relax and enjoy the social environment, stop judging yourself, focus outward, and develop a demeanor that other people find inviting. That way, you won't burn out in social environments in general.
...

You did really well with closing on the train, persisting in a calibrated way and then just going 'let's go'. That's the way to lead a girl and bring her into your frame. You also did very well with handling her initial objection when she realized you were taking her home, not reacting but simply acting as if it's perfectly normal and fine. These are transitions that cause the frames of guys who are unconfident to collapse.

When she objected to coming upstairs, I think you did well, although I think it's best to avoid getting into logical arguments i.e. 'If I wanted to do X I could have before' because that makes her think about the scenario and doesn't lighten the mood, so it's not as strong as making a joke that flips the frame like "haha how do I know you're safe to bring home? Maybe you'll tie me up and have your way with me" with a smile and a wink. If she continued to object you can then be more logical, but it helps to defuse the tension.
...

You made a crucial mistake much earlier, but it became very clear only now that you are close to 'doing the deed'. You didn't build enough of a connection with her, and that's making it hard for her to be comfortable.

In your apartment, she gave multiple signs of this: commenting on whether you prepared your apartment for 'this', asking your age (girls never ask about age when they feel connected to you), telling you that she felt like what was happening usually resulted from Tinder. All these are signs that she's looking at it like you just want to bang her and that's it.

On the walk home is where you needed to focus on building connection and rapport, and taking things quickly past the superficial level of nationalities and basic interests. This would have made her feel much better like 'ok we really do connect, I can be more open with him'.

This is very common with us dudes as we are simply focusing like a cruise missile on the lay, and just getting her past each hurdle, and not realizing that the overall frame is not conducive to her being open for sex and intimacy.

The result is that as you tried to get physical, she kept resisting, because psychologically she still felt distant from you and couldn't open up.

I think here you persisted a little too much. When a girl is resisting hard, it's best to take a step back, let her get comfortable, and try to figure out where the obstacle is. If you want to do a hail mary as she's leaving, at least try to set up the frame, e.g. grab her and look her in the eye and say "Look I know we just met, but I feel something between us, and I know you do too. And if we don't explore now it we might regret it forever" and kiss her. Or something like that, at least it gives her a frame in which to submit when she normally wouldn't.

You gotta be careful because if you simply bulldoze too hard with physicality, she can later rationalize that you were trying to force her and get you into trouble. Sex isn't something that requires bulldozing to make it happen. And in this case, the issue was lack of connection not that you weren't persisting hard enough.

You actually did more connection building with her on the way out of your apartment than you did at any other point, but by then it was too late. This is the lesson: build connection early and keep building it all the way through, and if she's acting like things are happening too fast, step back and build some more connection before trying again. That way she'll eventually be comfortable and turned on and taking her to bed will not be difficult.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Thanks for the reply @Will_V, I appreciate it!

When you get immediate rejections or girls closing off before you even open your mouth, it's ALWAYS a question of your nonverbals not being on point. It is never you that is the problem, but the vibe you give off in that moment.
It seems you felt anxious, not having had sex for a while, feeling like the older guy there, and feeling like you get ignored often at that venue. All this makes it hard to get into the right headspace, and that's likely the reason why girls looked at you and saw tension or negative emotions on your face and in the way you carried yourself, and shut things down.

Yes I agree it is a vibe issue. I feel that I am slowly getting the hang of it when it comes to daygame approaches, the opening lately goes much smoother, and get I mostly polite rejections appreciating my approach. But in nightgame I struggle a lot with what you describe. I generally either try to open a normal conversation like in daytime with a sincere compliment, or I try to go in playfully and say something teasing, but both vibes seem off in the club no matter where I try them. I feel that when I am trying to converse normally it feels weird because it's too normal for the environment, but when I try to get in with something more playful it feels try hard.

The funny thing is that I can enjoy the dancefloor a lot by myself, just today again I was in a club and at some point people were turned looking at me and cheering because of my moves. But the moment I stop going crazy dancing and try to open it's like I switch modes and the approach feels unnatural. I basically don't know how to enjoy the dancefloor with company. And it's even funnier, because I have been taking a number of partner dance classes for a while, so I can lead generally, but in the club I cannot process how to take a girl and start dancing with her, any efforts I make seem to be bothering them.

I really think I need to see full infields of people in nightgame, to understand how exactly they approach and touch women, how they talk initially, and how their vibe looks. I've only seen some former RSD guys in nightclubs, and they seem too extra for the environment here.

The way through is not to try and hide the things that create the anxiety, but simply embrace/accept them: you can't change where you are right now, but you can and will change the future, and in the meantime, you'll focus on having a good time and enjoying being around other people.
People don't really care about the things you find embarrassing, they care about whether you are going to make them feel good to be around you. Pleasantness and fun is the basic social currency, not 'having your whole life in order', no one cares about that.

Totally agree with that. I think I don't know how to make people feel good around me in nightclubs, which is connected to what I said before. Or at least how to make the feel good in ways that can lead to a seduction. I can go crazy dancing, I can have drinks with them, but it all feels like good fun but nothing else.

So the first lesson is to focus on is emotional control, relax and enjoy the social environment, stop judging yourself, focus outward, and develop a demeanor that other people find inviting. That way, you won't burn out in social environments in general.

Yeah this is crucial. I really think I have to see how this looks like to understand it though. I mean, when out I will give honest compliments, tell girls how I love their moves or they look like twins wearing the same outfit, and I will try to be social and open to conversation, but it's not going anywhere usually.

You did really well with closing on the train, persisting in a calibrated way and then just going 'let's go'. That's the way to lead a girl and bring her into your frame. You also did very well with handling her initial objection when she realized you were taking her home, not reacting but simply acting as if it's perfectly normal and fine. These are transitions that cause the frames of guys who are unconfident to collapse.

Thanks! Yeah this last one I think for the first time I didn't stop and kept walking normally while talking. Other times I would have thought ok she seems to not want it, let's stop here and negotiate. Probably helps she didn't stop suddenly herself, but simply mentioned it.

When she objected to coming upstairs, I think you did well, although I think it's best to avoid getting into logical arguments i.e. 'If I wanted to do X I could have before' because that makes her think about the scenario and doesn't lighten the mood, so it's not as strong as making a joke that flips the frame like "haha how do I know you're safe to bring home? Maybe you'll tie me up and have your way with me" with a smile and a wink. If she continued to object you can then be more logical, but it helps to defuse the tension.

Also true, I realised that, in fact it is something I do regularly, and after it happens I immediately think: damn you got too logical again. I guess sometimes I feel the way they express a concern is serious, so I want to respond to them seriously to make them feel I understand. But I have been trying to replace such logical arguments whenever I notice them.

You made a crucial mistake much earlier, but it became very clear only now that you are close to 'doing the deed'. You didn't build enough of a connection with her, and that's making it hard for her to be comfortable. In your apartment, she gave multiple signs of this: commenting on whether you prepared your apartment for 'this', asking your age (girls never ask about age when they feel connected to you), telling you that she felt like what was happening usually resulted from Tinder. All these are signs that she's looking at it like you just want to bang her and that's it.

Yes 100% true. In a way I noticed all the signs, but for some reason I thought that I could just keep moving fast, make her horny enough and close the deal.

On the walk home is where you needed to focus on building connection and rapport, and taking things quickly past the superficial level of nationalities and basic interests. This would have made her feel much better like 'ok we really do connect, I can be more open with him'.

And yes that was the perfect timing you are right. I tried to ask some questions about what she is doing in her life, but I kinda thought that we didn't have much time together, and it would feel weird to get very deeply. I had this idea that we both know what we are going for, and building a lot of connection for it doesn't make sense. Was even worried that by trying to build connection I may lose the sexual frame and eventually have her not want to continue. Women don't work like that though, and I have experienced it already, but sometimes you forget how it was feeling from some time ago.

I think here you persisted a little too much. When a girl is resisting hard, it's best to take a step back, let her get comfortable, and try to figure out where the obstacle is. If you want to do a hail mary as she's leaving, at least try to set up the frame, e.g. grab her and look her in the eye and say "Look I know we just met, but I feel something between us, and I know you do too. And if we don't explore now it we might regret it forever" and kiss her. Or something like that, at least it gives her a frame in which to submit when she normally wouldn't.

That's true, I should have tried to find out her concerns when we were in the couch, she felt too insistent on leaving, so I thought she wouldn't stay to discuss them. After pushing her against the wall and before she left, I did say something like your example in fact, but forgot to mention it in the report. She simply rejected my kiss and requested to leave again.

You gotta be careful because if you simply bulldoze too hard with physicality, she can later rationalize that you were trying to force her and get you into trouble. Sex isn't something that requires bulldozing to make it happen. And in this case, the issue was lack of connection not that you weren't persisting hard enough.

And yeah, sometimes I feel that I have to be super dominant in order to get results and lose the grand picture. Maybe I underestimate how much women can be attracted to me, and feel that if I lose momentum for a bit, they will feel bored and start experiencing a platonic interaction with someone trying to connect with them.

You actually did more connection building with her on the way out of your apartment than you did at any other point, but by then it was too late. This is the lesson: build connection early and keep building it all the way through, and if she's acting like things are happening too fast, step back and build some more connection before trying again. That way she'll eventually be comfortable and turned on and taking her to bed will not be difficult.

Yeah in the end I felt that there was no sex in the table anymore, so at that point we could connect without risking losing anything. That's my problem I guess, that sometimes I feel connection as something risky that may move the interaction away from sex. I suppose if I build it though while keeping some sexual tension, it can work and not put you deeply into a friend/boyfriend territory. So I should keep it in my mind to not be afraid to connect deeply while moving forward.

 

[Will_V]

I suppose if I build it though while keeping some sexual tension, it can work and not put you deeply into a friend/boyfriend territory. So I should keep it in my mind to not be afraid to connect deeply while moving forward.

That's exactly right, you can build warmth and connection but it doesn't mean that at that point you have to stop wanting to fuck her or do all sorts of dirty things with her. And it creates a nice tension when those two things come together.

In fact the more intimate and close to a girl I feel, the more I want to bang her, and I don't fail to convey that to her with my nonverbals, e.g. looking her hard in the eyes while she's talking until the tension makes her stutter, moving closer to her when she says something I like, moving in and out of her space and triggering her kiss/embrace reflex, reaching out and touching her spontaneously.

For women, it's a natural extension of psychological intimacy for things to get physical, as long as there is sexual tension and intent on your part. I think a lot of guys think that psychological intimacy and the desire to penetrate her are somehow opposed, as if one is 'light' and the other is 'dark', when in fact they go hand in hand in creating her pleasure.