Fucked up my reputation- How to recover and avoid doing it all over again?

[James D]

Hey guys,

I talked about the few enemies I amassed in this post viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17357.
I, because of my rude behaviors-acting arrogant, superior, ignoring guys who want to be my friend, not giving the popular kids attention, arguing with teachers and flat out telling them how they are wrong (And being right most of the time), fucked up my reputation in a few classes I take weekly. I fucked it up bad.

Some girls are super cold and distant (curiously they were really flirty and appeared interested before)
Guys try to out alpha me most of the time and I often lose social power (As much as I hate to admit)

My reputation went to cool, hot (mysterious?) guy to this asshole who thinks of himself as being at the top.
My social power is diminished and I can and sometimes do get thrown under the bus at times.

While I'm dealing with the fact that there will always be enemies and that for my journey, I've got to forge ahead (Thanks to the amazing suggestions of the guys from my previous post),
my questions today are: 1.What are your thoughts on recovering from a fucked up reputation? Is it possible? Is it an uphill battle, like getting a girl back?
2. Is it worth the mental energy? Those people are not really important to me but I get the feel that if they like me, I'll be less hurt. And my self esteem did take a few hits.
3. Which of these behaviors : acting arrogant, superior, ignoring guys who want to be my friend, not giving the popular kids attention, arguing with teachers and flat out telling them how they are wrong (And being right most of the time), should I wipe out completely?
4. For the more experienced guys, do you think I took a wrong approach to the Genuine Man journey? If yes, how can I change.

Thanks guys, I'm grinding hard at this stuff. It's a blessing to have you guys here to help clarify the unexplainable,

James D

 

[Hue]

I have a personal differentiation between an asshole and a dick. An asshole is a bully and shit's on people for no reason / sadistic pleasure. A dick says what he wants to say, when he finds it appropriate to say it. He doesn't mind that it might hurt people's feelings, but he's not just doing it to shit on people. There are times for behavior that squint into arrogance, times to ignore people, and times to challenge authorities - doing it all the time is silly.

1.What are your thoughts on recovering from a fucked up reputation? Is it possible? Is it an uphill battle, like getting a girl back?

I wrote something like this in another post recently:

If you consistently act a certain way, THAT is what you become. Yes, people may hold onto the past, but making consistent changes (good and bad) and improvements to yourself (or, not doing that) is how identity, and thus reputation generally works.

2. Is it worth the mental energy? Those people are not really important to me but I get the feel that if they like me, I'll be less hurt. And my self esteem did take a few hits.

Do you like having far less friends and girls that are cold and bitchy to you? Is fixing that problem worth the mental energy to you? I would say yes, it's worth the mental energy but I'm not you. Acting superior and arrogant is going to repel much more people than it brings - and that's people that you'll be meeting in the future throughout life, not just this particular group of people.

3. Which of these behaviors : acting arrogant, superior, ignoring guys who want to be my friend, not giving the popular kids attention, arguing with teachers and flat out telling them how they are wrong (And being right most of the time), should I wipe out completely?

Well, ask your self this, why do you do these things?

Is that an important / good reason? Was it justified in the social contexts? Okay, don't get rid of it.
Is it silly / giving you diminishing returns? Okay, cut that shit out.

You might be using tools like arrogance, ignoring certain guys / people, and arguing with teachers for the wrong situations. If these are all things you consistently do, I personally wouldn't want to be around you.

4. For the more experienced guys, do you think I took a wrong approach to the Genuine Man journey? If yes, how can I change.

It sounds like you went deep into the first few articles about being an arrogant asshole. Maybe you needed this - I can't say what you were like prior. The journey to Genuine Man involves a LOT of polarizing, and knowing how far you can push things. It's my favorite article series. Maybe revisit the series and see which direction you need to go.



Good luck out there,

Hue

 

[James D]

Hue, thank for you for this reply. Opened my eyes.

Gotta tackle the shit I put upon me.

JD

 

[Bboy100]

Yeah, you can recover from this relatively easily if you change your behavior (in fact, unless you're in high school, your reputation is always very malleable. You can recover from almost anything given that you have enough time). It kinda sounds like you're basically being a douchebag just for the sake of being a douchebag which is not good.The result will be alienation if you continue to do it.

3. Which of these behaviors : acting arrogant, superior, ignoring guys who want to be my friend, not giving the popular kids attention, arguing with teachers and flat out telling them how they are wrong (And being right most of the time), should I wipe out completely?
4. For the more experienced guys, do you think I took a wrong approach to the Genuine Man journey? If yes, how can I change.

It's a tricky question. You can definitely quit doing the following, pretty much always:
- Acting arrogant
- Acting superior to others

The rest of them though...you don't want to omit. Rather, you want to only behave that way when the situation calls for it. As a general rule of thumb, you should only be a dick if someone attacked you, something you believe in, someone you care about etc. (although at that point, that's no longer being a dick. It's standing up for yourself). But if no one violated you in any way, people will usually not respond well if you just go around acting like a bully. For example...I usually don't argue with my professors. But the other day, one of them was trying to imply that my liberal use of the word "he" (as opposed to a gender neutral term) in reference to someone or something who's gender I do not know is sexist. Her argument was based on bullshit feminist principles. Not on actual facts. I called her out real quick. We had a pretty intense debate in front of the whole class.

Now...if she was just doing her normal lecture, teaching normal material...I wouldn't argue with her. Even if I thought she was wrong (I might still question something to understand her perspective or even let her know I disagree, but I won't flat out tell her she's wrong). The important thing is that she subtly attacked me. She was basically saying that what I'm doing is sexist. So the point here is that I was defending myself. I did not go out of my way to make her look bad for no reason.

Similarly, to use the example of ignoring the guys who want to be your friends...you don't want to do that in most cases. You're alienating people for literally no reason. Anyone who's socially calibrated will see that you're just being a docuhebag, which thereby lowers YOUR status in his/her eyes. And everyone else will just view you as intimidating or standoffish and not want to associate with you. Either way, it's a net loss in social power for you. Even if you don't want to be friends with them, you still want to politely acknowledge them, then move on. That way any onlookers will see that they're vying for your attention, but you're NOT being a dick to them. You simply have better things to do. This will be a clear BOOST to your social status. See the difference?

This is also exactly why the girls who were into you before are no longer interested. At first, they thought you were hot. Then you were disrespectful for no reason. Now they just think you're a dick. Some girls are into this and will still fuck you (usually girls who have seriously dysfunctional relationships with men. But regardless, they still exist). Especially in college and high school. But for the most part, most girls and most people don't like this.

I also want to point out that what you're doing is very different from the guys girls label as "assholes" and are still attracted to. Those guys make a point to maintain rapport with the girls they're into, whilst making a comment which some would perceive as "being a dick" every once in a while. The comments they make are usually actually still somewhat socially appropriate. They're just bordering inappropriate. Or if they are actually inappropriate, the comment is usually also humorous AND they've already built enough rapport with the person(s) they're interacting with to get away with it (doing this correctly actually requires a lot of social and emotional intelligence which is why it's so attractive). A good example of this is Tony Stark from the Iron Man series. Yeah he says some outrageous things, but they still make the person he's talking to laugh. And they usually already see him in a positive light. So it's okay.

Whereas what you're doing is just being straight up rude.

One other thing to point out is that social context matters. Even if you're just standing up for yourself, direct confrontation is not always the most intelligent move. For example...say you're at a Frat party and you don't know anyone there. You get in a confrontation with the frat president. You lose. There's nothing you can do. Because it's his house, his party, his people. So they will take his side by default. I guess the only exception would be if you physically fought him and won ( I still don't recommend it for legal reasons. And potential physical damage you might sustain. Up to you though. If that's your thing, go for it.). Any other type of social confrontation will usually result in you getting kicked out. So even if he does something you don't like, its best to befriend him. Or at the very least, stay out of his way. You can't beat him in an environment like that (unless you also have some social leverage. Like say, you're good friends with a lot of the people there. But even then, it would be hard).

Now...say you meet that same Frat president in a more neutral place. Like say...a random bar in a big city. He's lost all his social leverage. Now you're on even terms. In a situation like this, if he disrespects you in any way, standing up for yourself via direct confrontation would be a perfectly viable strategy.

If you have the time to look into it, here are a few podcasts which really grounded my understanding of "When and how much of a dick should I be". They're really good (not to mention they're by Tucker Max...king of assholery. I don't think there's a better authority on this topic in specific than him). Definitely listen to the first link when you get the chance. The other ones are supplementary:
http://thematinggrounds.com/how-to-be-a ... e-asshole/
http://thematinggrounds.com/qa-what-is- ... ggressive/
http://thematinggrounds.com/how-can-i-b ... -violence/
http://thematinggrounds.com/the-mating- ... -assholes/

 

[James D]

Yeah, you can recover from this relatively easily if you change your behavior (in fact, unless you're in high school, your reputation is always very malleable. You can recover from almost anything given that you have enough time). It kinda sounds like you're basically being a douchebag just for the sake of being a douchebag which is not good.The result will be alienation if you continue to do it.

3. Which of these behaviors : acting arrogant, superior, ignoring guys who want to be my friend, not giving the popular kids attention, arguing with teachers and flat out telling them how they are wrong (And being right most of the time), should I wipe out completely?
4. For the more experienced guys, do you think I took a wrong approach to the Genuine Man journey? If yes, how can I change.

It's a tricky question. You can definitely quit doing the following, pretty much always:
- Acting arrogant
- Acting superior to others

The rest of them though...you don't want to omit. Rather, you want to only behave that way when the situation calls for it. As a general rule of thumb, you should only be a dick if someone attacked you, something you believe in, someone you care about etc. (although at that point, that's no longer being a dick. It's standing up for yourself). But if no one violated you in any way, people will usually not respond well if you just go around acting like a bully. For example...I usually don't argue with my professors. But the other day, one of them was trying to imply that my liberal use of the word "he" (as opposed to a gender neutral term) in reference to someone or something who's gender I do not know is sexist. Her argument was based on bullshit feminist principles. Not on actual facts. I called her out real quick. We had a pretty intense debate in front of the whole class.

Now...if she was just doing her normal lecture, teaching normal material...I wouldn't argue with her. Even if I thought she was wrong (I might still question something to understand her perspective or even let her know I disagree, but I won't flat out tell her she's wrong). The important thing is that she subtly attacked me. She was basically saying that what I'm doing is sexist. So the point here is that I was defending myself. I did not go out of my way to make her look bad for no reason.

Similarly, to use the example of ignoring the guys who want to be your friends...you don't want to do that in most cases. You're alienating people for literally no reason. Anyone who's socially calibrated will see that you're just being a docuhebag, which thereby lowers YOUR status in his/her eyes. And everyone else will just view you as intimidating or standoffish and not want to associate with you. Either way, it's a net loss in social power for you. Even if you don't want to be friends with them, you still want to politely acknowledge them, then move on. That way any onlookers will see that they're vying for your attention, but you're NOT being a dick to them. You simply have better things to do. This will be a clear BOOST to your social status. See the difference?

This is also exactly why the girls who were into you before are no longer interested. At first, they thought you were hot. Then you were disrespectful for no reason. Now they just think you're a dick. Some girls are into this and will still fuck you (usually girls who have seriously dysfunctional relationships with men. But regardless, they still exist). Especially in college and high school. But for the most part, most girls and most people don't like this.

I also want to point out that what you're doing is very different from the guys girls label as "assholes" and are still attracted to. Those guys make a point to maintain rapport with the girls they're into, whilst making a comment which some would perceive as "being a dick" every once in a while. The comments they make are usually actually still somewhat socially appropriate. They're just bordering inappropriate. Or if they are actually inappropriate, the comment is usually also humorous AND they've already built enough rapport with the person(s) they're interacting with to get away with it (doing this correctly actually requires a lot of social and emotional intelligence which is why it's so attractive). A good example of this is Tony Stark from the Iron Man series. Yeah he says some outrageous things, but they still make the person he's talking to laugh. And they usually already see him in a positive light. So it's okay.

Whereas what you're doing is just being straight up rude.

One other thing to point out is that social context matters. Even if you're just standing up for yourself, direct confrontation is not always the most intelligent move. For example...say you're at a Frat party and you don't know anyone there. You get in a confrontation with the frat president. You lose. There's nothing you can do. Because it's his house, his party, his people. So they will take his side by default. I guess the only exception would be if you physically fought him and won ( I still don't recommend it for legal reasons. And potential physical damage you might sustain. Up to you though. If that's your thing, go for it.). Any other type of social confrontation will usually result in you getting kicked out. So even if he does something you don't like, its best to befriend him. Or at the very least, stay out of his way. You can't beat him in an environment like that (unless you also have some social leverage. Like say, you're good friends with a lot of the people there. But even then, it would be hard).

Now...say you meet that same Frat president in a more neutral place. Like say...a random bar in a big city. He's lost all his social leverage. Now you're on even terms. In a situation like this, if he disrespects you in any way, standing up for yourself via direct confrontation would be a perfectly viable strategy.

If you have the time to look into it, here are a few podcasts which really grounded my understanding of "When and how much of a dick should I be". They're really good (not to mention they're by Tucker Max...king of assholery. I don't think there's a better authority on this topic in specific than him). Definitely listen to the first link when you get the chance. The other ones are supplementary:
http://thematinggrounds.com/how-to-be-a ... e-asshole/
http://thematinggrounds.com/qa-what-is- ... ggressive/
http://thematinggrounds.com/how-can-i-b ... -violence/
http://thematinggrounds.com/the-mating- ... -assholes/

Bboy100,

Apologies for astronomically late reply. I was busy preparing for my SAT and working to get my driver's license and did not check the boards.

Man, this is exactly the reply I needed. Thank you so very much, it's really clear now. I needed to know how exactly I was going too wrong and how to react given my present situation and I got it in your reply. NOW I understand that I was being plain rude and worse, for no justifiable reason.

Concerning your example of the Frat party, let's put it in a classroom where the guy who's being a dick to me has the social leverage and I barely know anybody. Is this a situation where direct confrontation would be a bad idea, just like your example?

And, is there no hope left if I'm in high school? i.e to recover form my reputation?

James D

 

[Bboy100]

Concerning your example of the Frat party, let's put it in a classroom where the guy who's being a dick to me has the social leverage and I barely know anybody. Is this a situation where direct confrontation would be a bad idea, just like your example?

This is kinda different from my example because in the Frat party example, you can just leave if you want to and go find something else to do. And you're only there for one night. Which means you don't have time to make meaningful/influential friendships or gain any prestige there. Whereas in your situation, you're in a fixed social setting which you have to be a part of (until you graduate or change schools). So I certainly wouldn't do nothing. Because that's even worse than getting in a confrontation and losing. If you do nothing at all, you'll just get pushed around all the time and you'll be less popular. What makes it worse is that it's high school. Which means the kid who's being a dick to you is probably doing it for no reason other than the fact that it will make him more popular. If I were you, I'd try to gain social leverage over time. That means you need to become well liked by your other peers. Then you can deal with him once you're on equal footing. In the meantime, if he's still being a dick to you, you should definitely stand up for yourself. But try to do it whilst attracting as little attention as possible. Because like we already discussed...if he has an audience, he'll win. Also, if he ever causes you to feel angry or frustrated, try not to show it. That's fuel to his fire. Having said that...take this advice with a grain of salt. Because I personally didn't get good with girls and socializing in general till after high school. So the advice I'm giving you I feel should theoretically work. But I've never actually tested it out in practice. Maybe someone else who did well in high school can chime in if they have an idea that they know works through experience.

Edit: Alternatively, the dude might be acting like a dick to you because you've been behaving the same way towards everyone else. Once that changes, there's a chance he'll back off (wouldn't count on it though).

And, is there no hope left if I'm in high school? i.e to recover form my reputation?

You can totally work through this. This is was one event or a short period of time during which you were acting like a douche. What I meant to say is that in the long-term, your social status is mostly set in stone in high school. So if you were considered the nerdy drama geek in Freshman year, that's what people will continue to think of you through Senior year. Even if you put on 30 lbs of muscle and join the Football team. If you were the star quarterback on the football team freshman year, you'll probably remain popular all throughout.

However, you can obviously fluctuate a little bit. Drama Geek can still become a little more popular overtime. And star QB can lose some social status if he does something dumb. But these fluctuations are usually temporary. Same with you now. You can make up for what you've been doing. If you start acting normal, people will go back to seeing you the way they saw you before. Does this make sense?

 

[James D]

In the meantime, if he's still being a dick to you, you should definitely stand up for yourself. But try to do it whilst attracting as little attention as possible. Because like we already discussed...if he has an audience, he'll win. Also, if he ever causes you to feel angry or frustrated, try not to show it. That's fuel to his fire.

Bboy100,

Here are some instances :
1. The guy talks to his friends about me, loudly and obviously, as in: " Yeah this guy is like that, fucking loser..." and gets his buddies to laugh.
2. When I walk out of class and he's outside, he'll act like I'm a fucking weirdo, give me looks and say things to his buddies and then laughs.

Should I react in these situations? My policy is that unless the attack is direct, like he is calling me from across the classroom and insulting me, I should not react. Because say I do react, then I can get responses like: "Dude, what's your problem? Who said we were talking about you?" Winks and smiles and I'm like a fucking weirdo for reacting too much. Do you see my point? I fear reacting and having it backfire against me. Now, do you think I should still stand up for myself?

And how can I stand up for myself in a cool way? As in, law of least effort way? (I suck at comebacks and as you said, I'm losing if he has an audience, which he does.)
Can't I pretend not to hear his shit or respond non verbally?

JD

 

[Sandman]

In the meantime, if he's still being a dick to you, you should definitely stand up for yourself. But try to do it whilst attracting as little attention as possible. Because like we already discussed...if he has an audience, he'll win. Also, if he ever causes you to feel angry or frustrated, try not to show it. That's fuel to his fire.

Bboy100,

Here are some instances :
1. The guy talks to his friends about me, loudly and obviously, as in: " Yeah this guy is like that, fucking loser..." and gets his buddies to laugh.
2. When I walk out of class and he's outside, he'll act like I'm a fucking weirdo, give me looks and say things to his buddies and then laughs.

Should I react in these situations? My policy is that unless the attack is direct, like he is calling me from across the classroom and insulting me, I should not react. Because say I do react, then I can get responses like: "Dude, what's your problem? Who said we were talking about you?" Winks and smiles and I'm like a fucking weirdo for reacting too much. Do you see my point? I fear reacting and having it backfire against me. Now, do you think I should still stand up for myself?

And how can I stand up for myself in a cool way? As in, law of least effort way? (I suck at comebacks and as you said, I'm losing if he has an audience, which he does.)
Can't I pretend not to hear his shit or respond non verbally?

JD

I'm a little late to this thread but if a guy is saying "a fucking loser" to my face he's getting punched in the throat.

Just stand up to yourself every time he does it. Do not let him off the hook easily.

- Who said we were talking about you?
- No. You don't get off that easy. Or are you a pussy so you can just insult me behind my back?
- What a weirdo, I wasn't even talking about you.
- What a pussy. Can't even own his own insult LOL.

If the attack is in your face, you deal with it, aggressively if necessary. You can get angry like a mothefucker here.

If he is using a passive aggressive style, then you confront it calmly. You don't get him off the hook. And you expose him as someone weak for using these indirect methods of attack.

There is a time not to react, like you guys are talking in a social circle, he says something insulting, you pause for a second, roll your eyes (as if he's just a child) and continue as if he said nothing. But you don't react too much then you just become a punching bag for him.

 

[James D]

Sandman,
Thank you for this reply man. I needed that push.

JD