Getting Dates (and more) off Cold Approach

[Marty]

Hey fellas:

I'm not feeling well and unlikely to be able to run much game this weekend, so I thought instead I'd review my records.

In recent months, I have:

• Cold approached 106 girls. I am not including ones who didn't open for me (e.g. who said things like "I don't have time for this right now"). To be counted I must have at least gotten her name and made my intentions clear (i.e., asked her on a date). All were "pretty" but I estimate that 31 were so sexy I'd be prepared to really, really work for them.
  
• Gotten 33 phone numbers. I'm guessing this is not so bad.
  
• Been on only 3 first dates. This is where it gets sticky. The vast majority of the girls who gave numbers either never replied, or merely acknowledged my icebreaker and then never replied to a date invitation. Getting an explicit "no" was unusual over text (though it was common enough upon opening).
  
• The dates were in June, August and October. None of the girls ever saw me a second time. The first texted me the next day that I was too old (ridiculous, she must be nearly 30 herself). I did see her once subsequently in the street and she was friendly and happy. The second told me she "didn't know" whether she would see me again, but never returned my messages. The third explicitly told me on the date that she would never see me again.

My question to you guys is, how should I best direct my effort (in day game)? You could interpret these statistics as implying that I'm simply not opening anywhere near enough girls... if I'd opened 1,000 instead of 100 I might have gotten 30 dates instead of 3. Foot-traffic in my city isn't sky-high but I know I can do better in terms of avoiding missed approaches.

Or you could argue that my conversion rate is not good enough... how do you go about fixing that? Chase always says you can't attract a girl by talking to her, so I'm guessing it's fundamentals that are off?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks,
Marty

 

[MisterX]

Hey, Marty

I also do only day game - just hate clubs and bars.

What I usually do is not only ask for the date, but actually make concrete plans. You know set up the date right then and there - arrange where you'll meet, what day, what time.
Only after we've set it up will I ever ask for her number.
That's my philosophy - if she doesn't make concrete plans with me for I date - why the hell do I need her number. She won't go out with me.

Personally I don't like "working to get a girl" - she either likes me and wants to go out, or she doesn't and I move on to the ones that do like me.


Girls who give you phone numbers but don't set up a date right on the spot, will only waste your time. And btw when you approach her in person - that's when your chances of getting her to go out with you are the highest.

You won't seduce her over the phone, or convince her to go out.



SO that's my take on it. If you don't make plans right away - you'll never see her again. Simple and easy.

As for the approaching actually I'm thinking of doing an approaching challenge in the beginning of 2014 (since the last few months I've been super busy and haven't approached at all).

I'm thinking of doing like 5-10 approached every day(counting only girls that I actually start a conversation with, not counting ones who reject me off the bat).
+ approaching every girl that I notice gives me IOI or approach invitation.
Take no numbers without setting up a date first. And don't waste time on girls that are just not interested. You know what she doesn't like me - big deal, just don't waste my time.
There are plenty of girls that would love to go out with me. I'll be focusing of them.


Plus I'll be becoming kinda famous in my country(and especially in my city) in 2014 so that would also help.

 

[PrettyDecent]

MisterX, you bring up some quality points. Only dealing with "yes" types instead of "maybe" types. Though, I think some skill is missed when not dealing with "maybe" types, as that's where game is really tested (lots of NJ's LRs seem to reflect this). On your goals - have you taken a look at Tyme2k's journal? He was doing a similar thing to your stated goals, you might find it interesting.

Marty, do you normally get social momentum while approaching? Do you do one or two "throwaway" approaches for the warm-up? And how often are you asking dates in person as opposed to text?

~Nick

 

[Grand Pooba]

This looks like a great thread, I am following.

The first texted me the next day that I was too old (ridiculous, she must be nearly 30 herself).

How did you reply to this?

My question to you guys is, how should I best direct my effort (in day game)?

Question for you: Are you moving women after you meet them? Even if it's for just five minutes (let's go sit here for a minute; let's go walk this way for a minute) if you can get her to comply with you on something on the spot (best case scenario is an instant date or a date right after she's finished doing whatever she is doing) then it's much, much more likely she will see you again, than if you only get her phone number. It's also better because you're making more effort and spending more time in getting to know her, which means she feels a stronger connection to you.

What I usually do is not only ask for the date, but actually make concrete plans. You know set up the date right then and there - arrange where you'll meet, what day, what time.
Only after we've set it up will I ever ask for her number.

This seems to work well and much better than just getting her number and then asking her for availability later.

SO that's my take on it. If you don't make plans right away - you'll never see her again. Simple and easy.

I agree with this statement. At the very least you should be suggesting the activity (maybe coffee), asking what her schedule is usually like, where she lives, and when she's usually free.

And how often are you asking dates in person as opposed to text?

Am also curious about this.

 

[MisterX]

Thanks, PrettyDecent & ozzo

btw Marty, just to put it into perspective:

My method is higher on rejections - lets say I approach 10 girls maybe I arrange a date with only one. But the pay off is higher.
What would you prefer - to do 10 approach in 1 day and have one solid date planned OR approach 10 girls and have 5-6 phone numbers that you have to game for days/weeks and hope, just hope that at least one decides to go out with you.

It's kinda like a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush - or in pua terms, an arranged date is worth 5-6 phone numbers.

You just gotta be prepared for a higher rejection rate. Less girls will agree to go out with you that would give you their phone numbers. Btw some girls give you their phone number just to get rid of you. But the ones that do agree to go out with you will pay off far more - if you arrange a date, a few minutes after meeting, that means she really likes you and you'd be able to move things faster and escalate quicker.



as to your remark PrettyDecent

Only dealing with "yes" types instead of "maybe" types. Though, I think some skill is missed when not dealing with "maybe" types, as that's where game is really tested (lots of NJ's LRs seem to reflect this).

The thing is I don't have the time to afford to chase after girls. I'm 21 starting my own tech company(will be official in January 2014) and handling 18 websites with at least one product on each of them, handling the social media marketing and other stuff and filing for a 6 patents and meeting with idiot layers and retarded people at the patent offices. I spend 7-8 hours a day on my laptop, another couple hours finding and dealing with software programmers, I also visit the gym 6 days a week(actually I have to since I was super fat, I lost 60kg/130lbs, so I have to work out regularly), do yoga 3 days a week, and I'm starting my own charity organisation in January.
I've barely slept more than 6-7 hours the last two months. So trust me the last thing I can afford is to chase after girls via text and phone calls to try and convince her to go out with me.

That's actually why I haven't approach in the past two months. I don't know how I'll handle it in 2014, since I want to start another 10 websites, create the products, and start manufacturing if those morons decide to give me the patents I filed for.
And on top of that I struggle to find time to practice the piano and guitar and go to my singing lessons, since I want to try for the Xfactor in July. Not sure how I'll manage to pull that one off.

I don't know if I'll have the time to spare for gaming "maybe"s. Honestly I think it'll be much better if I find an awesome girlfriend rather than having to find time to go approach and deal with new girls. Just not sure If I'll manage to do it at all or if I'll spend 2014 working all the time and alone with no girls and no sex.

Hmm that would suck A LOT!

 

[Marty]

Boy, am I glad I started this thread! Thanks for your interest, gentlemen... whoa!

I also do only day game - just hate clubs and bars.

Personally, I'm not sure I "hate" clubs and bars as such, I just don't have any real experience of them. I figured if I get my day game down first—to the point where approaching a girl is a matter of habit—lounges and bars should fall into place naturally. (Clubs I am less sure about, because I am genuinely nervous that I will not be able to make any conversation if the music is too loud—but I'll try it, might have to rely on nonverbals.)

Actually, I'm almost at that point. Butterflies, sweating, trembling etc. are all non-existent in my openings; I maintain strong eye contact and go direct every time, sometimes pretty explicitly, and I'm really starting to enjoy the conversations I have with women.

What I usually do is not only ask for the date, but actually make concrete plans. You know set up the date right then and there - arrange where you'll meet, what day, what time. Only after we've set it up will I ever ask for her number.

That's my philosophy - if she doesn't make concrete plans with me for I date - why the hell do I need her number. She won't go out with me.
...
Girls who give you phone numbers but don't set up a date right on the spot, will only waste your time. And btw when you approach her in person - that's when your chances of getting her to go out with you are the highest.

You won't seduce her over the phone, or convince her to go out.

SO that's my take on it. If you don't make plans right away - you'll never see her again. Simple and easy.

Yeah. I've got this now, loud and clear. I'm pretty certain I am incapable of texting or phoning my way to success. I rely heavily on body language, voice tone, eye contact and other nonverbals so the moment we part, I lose all this. I am going to follow this precept religiously from now... as an experiment I want to try actually declining a girl's number who's not ready to make plans but offering it as a consolation prize, and see what happens. I'll say something like: "If you're not prepared to make plans to see me, there's little point in me contacting you" and watch subtly for her reaction. I have an inkling that such demonstrated outcome-independence may cause perhaps 25% of girls opened to actually reengage, though I'll believe it when I see it.

Plus I'll be becoming kinda famous in my country(and especially in my city) in 2014 so that would also help.

I'm flattered to be among your acquaintances Am I going to be reading about MisterX in the national press? I'm fascinated to learn how a person can know that he will be famous ahead of time!

+ approaching every girl that I notice gives me IOI or approach invitation.

I do this already, unless she's totally surrounded by other people. The trouble is, I don't get girls meeting my eye all that often (or maybe I don't notice)

Marty, do you normally get social momentum while approaching? Do you do one or two "throwaway" approaches for the warm-up?

Nick, hi there. Frankly, the answer is no. As you can tell from the stats (100+ openings in half a year, going out on average 5 days a week) I'm getting an average of just under one opening per outing. But I can tell that the social momentum thing works, because the best day I had I opened 5 women during the day; the first four didn't give me numbers but the fifth did, and then the same night I met Espresso&Cream whom I actually made some progress with on the approach. I don't think that's a coincidence.

I'll have to admit though, I'm in awe of the guys who report doing 10+ approaches on a single outing. I just can't see how it's done. Actually, I can imagine doing it if I lived in London or Moscow or New York City, where the foot traffic is insane. My city is maybe 425,000 population within the city limits, 6 million plus in the metro area, but pretty spread out and like most American cities, not very pedestrian-friendly except in a few select areas, and with little in the way of mass transit. We don't get too many tourists like you seem to in Perth, either, Nick! I'd love to move to Washington, DC—I think that'd be ideal from many perspectives.

And how often are you asking dates in person as opposed to text?

Not often enough, but recently I've started doing this and yeah, it's polarizing. You and MisterX are right about this. Great piece of advice.

Only dealing with "yes" types instead of "maybe" types. Though, I think some skill is missed when not dealing with "maybe" types, as that's where game is really tested (lots of NJ's LRs seem to reflect this).

I'm not at that level of skill yet, so I think the "yes/maybe" distinction is important for me just now. I'm going to push to polarize—just as you do with going direct on the opener. You get more bang for the buck in terms of learning, rather than waiting endlessly and in vain for replies to texts.

Question for you: Are you moving women after you meet them? Even if it's for just five minutes (let's go sit here for a minute; let's go walk this way for a minute) if you can get her to comply with you on something on the spot (best case scenario is an instant date or a date right after she's finished doing whatever she is doing) then it's much, much more likely she will see you again, than if you only get her phone number. It's also better because you're making more effort and spending more time in getting to know her, which means she feels a stronger connection to you.

Hey Ozzo. Good point. Not enough. I've pushed for it occasionally, but not as a matter of course, and sometimes girls stop for me when I haven't even asked them to, rather than continuing to walk and "dragging me along", but again it's unplanned and not habitual enough. Thanks for the timely reminder!

My method is higher on rejections - lets say I approach 10 girls maybe I arrange a date with only one. But the pay off is higher.
What would you prefer - to do 10 approach in 1 day and have one solid date planned OR approach 10 girls and have 5-6 phone numbers that you have to game for days/weeks and hope, just hope that at least one decides to go out with you.

It's kinda like a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush - or in pua terms, an arranged date is worth 5-6 phone numbers.

Okay, gentlemen, I am a convert now!

Btw some girls give you their phone number just to get rid of you.

They do indeed! Right number, wrong number, the works. I even had one recently call me back when she saw my missed call, then hang up immediately when she heard who it was! I think I got the message

Just not sure If I'll manage to do it at all or if I'll spend 2014 working all the time and alone with no girls and no sex.

Don't do it!!!!

Thanks Nick, MisterX and Ozzo, you fellas really helped me out. Glad that the discussion was of such interest.

-Marty

 

[TheWiseFool]

I'll certainly try MisterX's method. Great thread