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- Jan 13, 2022
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Can the negotiation classic help down on their luck seducers?
While some guys put on bravado about how they rarely get rejected, the reality is rejection is bound to happen in day game. It is a noisy universe: a girl might be in a rush, have a boyfriend, whatever. However, if you are hearing a lot of “No”, it is sometimes worth taking a step back and having a think about what you’re doing.
Frankly, having had a more difficult time with cold approach as a strategy in recent months, I picked up the classic negotiation book Getting to Yes wondering if it might help me in different parts of my life including my dating life. In what follows, I describe the book and the extent to which I think it relates to seduction.
Getting to Yes is a self-book for people looking to improve their negotiation skills by Richard Fisher and William Ury, Harvard researchers on negotiation. Essentially, Fisher and Ury have a four-point model of negotiation. First, one should try to separate the person from the problem. Second, one should endeavour to understand the interests that underlie positions. Third, one should be able to come up with creative “options” for conflict resolution. Lastly, one should appeal to objective criteria in determining decisions.
One thought I also had when reading Chris Voss’s book is I’m not sure negotiation is a perfect proxy for seduction. When Fisher and Ury discuss negotiation, they bring up examples like two hostile nations trying to broker a peace deal or a cop in a high stakes exchange with a criminal. The point is the authors posit negotiation as an attempt to reach an agreement with an at least somewhat hostile other party. Put simply, I don’t think you should go into interactions thinking girls will necessarily resist you. However, if in his Masterclass ad Chris Voss generalizes getting a coffee to being a negotiation then I think we can call a cold approach a negotiation.
In an early subsection, Negotiators are people first, Fisher and Ury note that human beings “have emotions, deeply held values, and different backgrounds and viewpoints”.1 I think this is relevant when it comes to framing your persuasive appeal with the type of girl you’re going for. For example, right now I am endeavoring to do a more boyfriend-based game, and my type is pretty, middle-class women with feminine pastimes. This informs my presentation, and my economic ambition outside game.
Earlier in the book, Fisher and Ury contrast hard and soft negotiation styles, which struck me as relevant to getting girls. While I can’t speak to other guys experience with this stuff, I find I sometimes suffer from being overly conciliatory with girls when I could probably push harder. While not to plug Steve Jabba, this video at this hyperlink could be viewed from a negotiation perspective. In the book, Fisher and Ury discuss soft and hard negotiation, with the former being more willing to placate and the latter more forcefully pushing a line. While there are other videos on the internet of Steve approaching receptive girls, this girl is slightly combative with him. From a negotiation perspective, Steve takes a positional bargaining stand of “I find you attractive and want to establish relations”. Despite the girl repeatedly saying things to try to throw him off, Steve sticks in the interaction and ends up getting the result, with the potential for a meetup on the girl’s one night in town. The point is consistent with negotiation being about being open but firm I think it is worth being slightly pushy. Being slightly pushy might even increase a guy’s approach-to-close ratio.
There are instances where you will have mutual attraction and there are no impediments for the girl and in those scenarios facilitating a number close is relatively easy. I think negotiation skills come more in handy with girls who are more uncertain about you. In the book, Fisher and Ury describe coming up with a “yes-able proposition”, which involves putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and walking back an initial aggressive proposition to one the other party might agree with.2 Again, analyzing Steve’s in-field, he goes pretty aggressively for the girl initially and is met with a girl who is at once slightly flirtatious and also willing to give him some shit, and eventually Steve offers “I’ll take your number, I’ll give you a text, maybe we can go out if you feel like it”, a live example of a “yes-able proposition” in pick-up. The point is you should demonstrate social sensitivity like Steve here and walk back the aggressiveness of your initial gambit with a girl if it’s the difference between a lead and no lead with her.
To conclude, reading Fisher and Ury’s Getting to Yes I think there are certain ways negotiation principles are applicable to seduction. While a lot of girls will respond pleasantly to a cold approach, given the stochasticity of day-game you will also encounter situations where girls will give you blowback, and in these situations, remaining an unshakeable man and being able to sidestep token objections can be the difference between an instant blowout and some sort of lead. I also think breaking down Fisher and Ury’s four-point model coming up with creative “options” can be a good way to get a compromise lead with a girl who is not an immediate “yes” girl (e.g. merely establishing a friendly rapport can be a good compromise if an interest group like a boyfriend is influencing her yes or no). While negotiation alone won’t get you there, the ability to be calm, assess where the girl is coming from, and be tactfully pushy should result in at least marginal improvement in any guy’s success rate.
1. Fisher, Roger and William Ury. Getting to Yes. Penguin Group (Canada). Toronto, Canada. 2011. 21.
2. Fisher and Ury, Getting to Yes. 81.
While some guys put on bravado about how they rarely get rejected, the reality is rejection is bound to happen in day game. It is a noisy universe: a girl might be in a rush, have a boyfriend, whatever. However, if you are hearing a lot of “No”, it is sometimes worth taking a step back and having a think about what you’re doing.
Frankly, having had a more difficult time with cold approach as a strategy in recent months, I picked up the classic negotiation book Getting to Yes wondering if it might help me in different parts of my life including my dating life. In what follows, I describe the book and the extent to which I think it relates to seduction.
Getting to Yes is a self-book for people looking to improve their negotiation skills by Richard Fisher and William Ury, Harvard researchers on negotiation. Essentially, Fisher and Ury have a four-point model of negotiation. First, one should try to separate the person from the problem. Second, one should endeavour to understand the interests that underlie positions. Third, one should be able to come up with creative “options” for conflict resolution. Lastly, one should appeal to objective criteria in determining decisions.
One thought I also had when reading Chris Voss’s book is I’m not sure negotiation is a perfect proxy for seduction. When Fisher and Ury discuss negotiation, they bring up examples like two hostile nations trying to broker a peace deal or a cop in a high stakes exchange with a criminal. The point is the authors posit negotiation as an attempt to reach an agreement with an at least somewhat hostile other party. Put simply, I don’t think you should go into interactions thinking girls will necessarily resist you. However, if in his Masterclass ad Chris Voss generalizes getting a coffee to being a negotiation then I think we can call a cold approach a negotiation.
In an early subsection, Negotiators are people first, Fisher and Ury note that human beings “have emotions, deeply held values, and different backgrounds and viewpoints”.1 I think this is relevant when it comes to framing your persuasive appeal with the type of girl you’re going for. For example, right now I am endeavoring to do a more boyfriend-based game, and my type is pretty, middle-class women with feminine pastimes. This informs my presentation, and my economic ambition outside game.
Earlier in the book, Fisher and Ury contrast hard and soft negotiation styles, which struck me as relevant to getting girls. While I can’t speak to other guys experience with this stuff, I find I sometimes suffer from being overly conciliatory with girls when I could probably push harder. While not to plug Steve Jabba, this video at this hyperlink could be viewed from a negotiation perspective. In the book, Fisher and Ury discuss soft and hard negotiation, with the former being more willing to placate and the latter more forcefully pushing a line. While there are other videos on the internet of Steve approaching receptive girls, this girl is slightly combative with him. From a negotiation perspective, Steve takes a positional bargaining stand of “I find you attractive and want to establish relations”. Despite the girl repeatedly saying things to try to throw him off, Steve sticks in the interaction and ends up getting the result, with the potential for a meetup on the girl’s one night in town. The point is consistent with negotiation being about being open but firm I think it is worth being slightly pushy. Being slightly pushy might even increase a guy’s approach-to-close ratio.
There are instances where you will have mutual attraction and there are no impediments for the girl and in those scenarios facilitating a number close is relatively easy. I think negotiation skills come more in handy with girls who are more uncertain about you. In the book, Fisher and Ury describe coming up with a “yes-able proposition”, which involves putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and walking back an initial aggressive proposition to one the other party might agree with.2 Again, analyzing Steve’s in-field, he goes pretty aggressively for the girl initially and is met with a girl who is at once slightly flirtatious and also willing to give him some shit, and eventually Steve offers “I’ll take your number, I’ll give you a text, maybe we can go out if you feel like it”, a live example of a “yes-able proposition” in pick-up. The point is you should demonstrate social sensitivity like Steve here and walk back the aggressiveness of your initial gambit with a girl if it’s the difference between a lead and no lead with her.
To conclude, reading Fisher and Ury’s Getting to Yes I think there are certain ways negotiation principles are applicable to seduction. While a lot of girls will respond pleasantly to a cold approach, given the stochasticity of day-game you will also encounter situations where girls will give you blowback, and in these situations, remaining an unshakeable man and being able to sidestep token objections can be the difference between an instant blowout and some sort of lead. I also think breaking down Fisher and Ury’s four-point model coming up with creative “options” can be a good way to get a compromise lead with a girl who is not an immediate “yes” girl (e.g. merely establishing a friendly rapport can be a good compromise if an interest group like a boyfriend is influencing her yes or no). While negotiation alone won’t get you there, the ability to be calm, assess where the girl is coming from, and be tactfully pushy should result in at least marginal improvement in any guy’s success rate.
1. Fisher, Roger and William Ury. Getting to Yes. Penguin Group (Canada). Toronto, Canada. 2011. 21.
2. Fisher and Ury, Getting to Yes. 81.
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