GF being dramatic when not together; Emotional time bomb aftermath

[Little Jester]

Hey guys,

As I illustrated in a comment in another topic, I've got this dynamic with my GF now, where she is suppressing her less wanted emotions around me, because she doesn't want to hurt me or herself with silliness and dramatic behaviors, she says.

Thing is, I found she is acting like a time bomb that explodes every now and then, but only when I'm NOT around. It can be as simple as she misinterpreting a text she gets from me and that triggers her going mad, feeling sick, crying or whatever. But she doesn't directly unload it on me. She even one time wanted to cool off at her sisters' place, so she'd almost leave the house right before I got home from work, where she normally waits for me with dinner. Or at least, that is what she told me later that she had wanted to do that, but she didn't do it anyways and instead I got home to a dinner with a girl that was slightly off from her normal, happy, smiling self.

So when we get together, I get to deal with the aftermath of her episode (which is basically more drama). She's trying her best to uphold a "let's continue as normal / nothing has happened" mask, but I can tell she's being off and so I tell her to sit down with me and we talk to get to the problem. I calmly listen to her and also tell her my side of the story and then she starts crying on my shoulder. If I ask her what she is crying about, she then says she is crying because I've been so good to her and that what she's giving me is drama in return and she doesn't want that for us. Funny thing is that is exactly what she is doing right there But I don't judge her on that. It's okay.. Anyways, she later apologizes for causing drama, for crying about it, to which I say it's all okay. And even more later she'll thank me for "understanding your girlfriend so well" (she did that a couple of occasions already now)

I don't know what to make of this. Maybe I overplayed the "Both of us don't need drama, so better not do it" frame and she's now unable to express her problems well. Or some bigger thing is going on here. Heh, maybe she is in the middle of some self improvement thing of her own, trying to master her emotions or something... But the ticking time bomb thing and dealing with the aftermath doesn't sit right with me. If this keeps up, it's maybe damaging for our relationship in the long run?

Anyone have thoughts about what might be going on in that head of hers? Anything you would do in a situation like this? Or is there actually anything you CAN do? I mean, it's more about her and her inner struggle then it is about me, I guess. Maybe this is just relationship maintenance I have to put up with, with this type of girl.. I don't know. First time for me. It's just that I really hate to see her like that and that does effect me somewhat (which is exactly a trigger for her to start crying, if I tell her what she is doing to me).

Anyways, thx for any of your input,
J

 

[Franco]

LJ,

Anyone have thoughts about what might be going on in that head of hers? Anything you would do in a situation like this? Or is there actually anything you CAN do? I mean, it's more about her and her inner struggle then it is about me, I guess. Maybe this is just relationship maintenance I have to put up with, with this type of girl.. I don't know. First time for me. It's just that I really hate to see her like that and that does effect me somewhat (which is exactly a trigger for her to start crying, if I tell her what she is doing to me).

It seems to me like you have things pretty well under control. As long as you're able to sit down and calmly talk out the problem with her afterward (and make sure that you're actually getting to the source of each individual outburst), then you're handling things well. You'd only have to worry about a "ticking time bomb" scenario if, after talking things over, she seems to still be "off." But if she's crying tears of happiness on your shoulder afterward, then I don't think that's the case here.

It might just be that she's legitimately not used to having a guy who is so in control of his emotions and willing to be there for her when she needs it (as well as fulfilling all of her other needs). If she's trying to suppress her negative emotions around you, then that's a good sign that she really respects you and that she doesn't want to rock the boat. Unfortunately, there's probably no magic pill to completely rid of her dramatic episodes -- if that's who she is, then that's just how she'll be. Over a lengthy period of time though, should you choose to stay with her, these episodes could decline in frequency if you continue to handle things appropriately.

- Franco

 

[Chase]

Jester-

So when we get together, I get to deal with the aftermath of her episode (which is basically more drama). She's trying her best to uphold a "let's continue as normal / nothing has happened" mask, but I can tell she's being off and so I tell her to sit down with me and we talk to get to the problem. I calmly listen to her and also tell her my side of the story and then she starts crying on my shoulder. If I ask her what she is crying about, she then says she is crying because I've been so good to her and that what she's giving me is drama in return and she doesn't want that for us. Funny thing is that is exactly what she is doing right there But I don't judge her on that. It's okay.. Anyways, she later apologizes for causing drama, for crying about it, to which I say it's all okay. And even more later she'll thank me for "understanding your girlfriend so well" (she did that a couple of occasions already now)

I don't know what to make of this. Maybe I overplayed the "Both of us don't need drama, so better not do it" frame and she's now unable to express her problems well. Or some bigger thing is going on here. Heh, maybe she is in the middle of some self improvement thing of her own, trying to master her emotions or something... But the ticking time bomb thing and dealing with the aftermath doesn't sit right with me. If this keeps up, it's maybe damaging for our relationship in the long run?

I'd agree with Franco that it sounds like you're mostly doing what you ought to be doing on your end, though it also sounds to me like there's a piece of the puzzle you're missing with regards to this girl and her emotional displays and outbursts.

For one, it sounds like either you've REALLY put the pimp hand down, like, excessively hard, against her ever showing a mote of drama around you... but I don't think that's it, because if that was your MO, you wouldn't now be scaling back and telling her it's okay and letting her cry on your shoulder; OR, probably more likely, she's been conditioned by others in her life before you to show no emotion and control her outbursts - could be a former lover or lovers, could be a parent.

The emotional swings - barely-contained rage that she then explodes out at other people, then crying about how good you are - are pretty extreme, and sound like what I've experienced around people with borderline personality disorder; if they are desperately afraid of losing you and feel they can't control you; they'll sometimes bottle it up, but then go unload it on other people, and they swing back and forth between all kinds of different emotions. Once they feel like they get an upper hand on you, though, they start attacking openly with mountains of criticism while becoming both suspicious and resentful of you, only to panic and become super-sweet again when you declare you're finished and leaving, or they go into total "drag his name through the mud and ruin his life" vengeance mode if you declare it's final (the only way you avert this is showing them you're better at doing the same to them, and that you'd be more than happy to go tit-for-tat if that's what they want to do).

Any time I hear "drama, followed by apologizing for drama, followed by drama, followed by apologizing for drama" I think "borderline." I'd recommend checking out Drexel's post on cluster B personality women, this post on Squidoo about the symptoms of BPD, and an article site on borderline recommended by one of the commenters on another of Drexel's articles, Shari Schreiber's site.

If it does turn out that she's borderline, you'll have a tough road ahead of you - borderlines seem like the ideal, DREAM girlfriends in the beginning, but over time, the relationship descends into dependency, hell, and madness. It sounds as though she's "training you" to accept her drama right now and be the white knight - which is what borderlines do - but once you completely embrace the role, you'll soon find out that you're not strong enough to absorb ALL of the crashing tidal waves of endless bad emotions that a borderline individual will cast relentlessly onto you.

If you've ever seen the end of Ang Lee's Hulk, when Hulk gives all his rage to his father and says, "You want it? TAKE IT ALL!" and the father is like, "No! It's too much! Take it back!" - that's sort of what it's like being close to a borderline. Their emotion will destroy you, and they'll always have more to give.

But, they know how dangerous it is, and hide it from you and squirrel it away at first, until they've opened the door enough to start giving more and more of it to you in their perpetual but ill-fated quest to "feel better" or "feel whole" or "feel safe."

Anyway, do your own research - maybe she's just going through a "thing", but listen to actions, not words - if she tells you she isn't usually like this, but keeps repeating certain behavior patterns again and again, trust your gut, not her words.

Chase

 

[Little Jester]

Cheers Franco,

It might just be that she's legitimately not used to having a guy who is so in control of his emotions and willing to be there for her when she needs it

That might be right on the mark She told me she never experienced a guy like me before and as far as she told me, she had only 2 boyfriends before: One sounded like a dominant, but emotional weak guy. This guy would have anger problems / beat her if she didn't do things his way. He in the end cried, begging her to stay with him when she broke up with him, for him cheating on her. The other guy was the opposite: a true insecure 'nice' guy who bitched about committing suicide after they broke up after a year with a oneitis syndrome still ever since. Sounds like 2 extremes this site and community in a way tries to guard guys against going and not in line with my personal personality to say the least

Anyways, thanks for the input. It really is reassuring that it seems to be going the right way. Like I mentioned, it's a first time I'm in a committed relationship, so it's still a bit of an exploration on my part. A process of putting stuffs into practice and see what works and not. Thing is, the feedback from the girl is not always a solid marker to see if we're going in the right direction or not (and that worries me sometimes). I like to put some of my personal time in absorbing articles related to relationships here on the site and forum and try scouting out different sites (but I'm not always sure if advice from other sites is always healthy advise).

Over a lengthy period of time though, should you choose to stay with her, these episodes could decline in frequency if you continue to handle things appropriately

I am indeed trying to see how far I can get with this girl as seen in a ltr perspective. Aside from articles that have popped up in relationship 101 over the past year, Ricardus his relationship series and Chase his recent forum post on monogamy.. Any other recommended GC reads, or other sites, books that deal with healthy monogamous ltr? This stuffs really helps where there is a lack of experience

 

[Little Jester]

Hey Chase,

Wow almost missed your post while I was responding to Franco at the same time. Thanks for your input man!

Actually borderline has popped up in my head before after reading an article from you on that subject. But I later went like "nah, not this girl", but I do have doubts.. Should definitely keep this option open for sure and will definitely start reading up more on that too, just in case she is indeed borderline... She asked me this morning if I think she is crazy for doing drama to us... Currently I just went with "mwah you're just being a girl. We'll figure it out." This is in regards to her being 23, me 32 and we blame her somewhat more extreme behaviors on age and inexperience in more healthy relationships... It's hard for me to tell right now...

 

[Little Jester]

Just dropping by to update on this one, as I've gotten some ideas.

I've been reading these articles on borderline (thanks!). Some things hit home like "Love bombs", and (although still on the mild side) cases of "Splitting". Also the Squidoo article's first symptom "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment" describes my girl perfectly going from what she keeps telling me lots of times over and over again "I get jealous if you look at other ladies! I can't loose you! You're my everything! I'm afraid you one day have enough of me!". However much other stuffs from Squidoo (or that other site from Drexel's article comments) isn't holding up with my girl (yet), so the judge is still out... Alas, I have been seriously warned and taken to mind what Drexel wrote about sitting down with his cluster B girl(s?) and talking about it, but that would not work out... So that got me thinking on how to proceed.

Today's article from Chase on Astrology then got me going on this new idea; My girl is a sucker for astrology stuffs. She even attributed some of her more bipolar like traits on her zodiac signs (which could also influence the way she acts, cause she believes that stuffs thoroughly). But lately she hasn't read anything on it she said. So I started to read up on favorable 2014 articles and predictions for her 2 zodiac signs (she is born on one of those days that you are on a cusp of 2 signs, luckily for me increasing the amount of articles I can use). And with favorable articles and predictions I mean stuff I can relate back to us / her and the abandonment anxieties she is having and the drama dynamics that we are having (linking that last one to 'relationship lessons' in the predictions for example) and then look forward on favorable predictions on our relationship dynamics for later this year (from these articles)

Maybe it's playing with fire, but it seems like a nice idea and I've already prepped my girl trough text that I'm brushing up on astrology on the side for fun. So I'll probably go over these articles together with her soon and I hope she'll use some of these stuffs as inspiration. Maybe we can blame some of her drama on the stars, which will soon align favorably and then eventually (hopefully) help her emotion control somewhat. Maybe as a bonus I get to deep dive new angles on her personality and her past and maybe I'll find out more about what is going on in her head. Just curious and will try to update here if this seems to pan out in any favorable ways

Side note: I'm not one to believe stuff that isn't scientifically proven, astrology (and religion) included. However, I don't write these stuffs off either. Sometimes they have some true beneficial uses to ones who do believe in it and I find it fascinating (and always part of me wishes it is true and hopes it will be scientifically proven in future). I see it's use for me only to inspire now; In this case to inspire my girl and her personal growth and then admittedly selfishly getting more out of our relationship myself as well. But I think that's only for the better for the both of us. As long as she is receptive to it of course. That's yet to be proven

 

[Chase]

Jester-

I've been reading these articles on borderline (thanks!). Some things hit home like "Love bombs", and (although still on the mild side) cases of "Splitting". Also the Squidoo article's first symptom "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment" describes my girl perfectly going from what she keeps telling me lots of times over and over again "I get jealous if you look at other ladies! I can't loose you! You're my everything! I'm afraid you one day have enough of me!". However much other stuffs from Squidoo (or that other site from Drexel's article comments) isn't holding up with my girl (yet), so the judge is still out... Alas, I have been seriously warned and taken to mind what Drexel wrote about sitting down with his cluster B girl(s?) and talking about it, but that would not work out... So that got me thinking on how to proceed.

Yeah... that's what I thought.

Today's article from Chase on Astrology then got me going on this new idea; My girl is a sucker for astrology stuffs. She even attributed some of her more bipolar like traits on her zodiac signs (which could also influence the way she acts, cause she believes that stuffs thoroughly). But lately she hasn't read anything on it she said. So I started to read up on favorable 2014 articles and predictions for her 2 zodiac signs (she is born on one of those days that you are on a cusp of 2 signs, luckily for me increasing the amount of articles I can use). And with favorable articles and predictions I mean stuff I can relate back to us / her and the abandonment anxieties she is having and the drama dynamics that we are having (linking that last one to 'relationship lessons' in the predictions for example) and then look forward on favorable predictions on our relationship dynamics for later this year (from these articles)

Maybe it's playing with fire, but it seems like a nice idea and I've already prepped my girl trough text that I'm brushing up on astrology on the side for fun. So I'll probably go over these articles together with her soon and I hope she'll use some of these stuffs as inspiration. Maybe we can blame some of her drama on the stars, which will soon align favorably and then eventually (hopefully) help her emotion control somewhat. Maybe as a bonus I get to deep dive new angles on her personality and her past and maybe I'll find out more about what is going on in her head. Just curious and will try to update here if this seems to pan out in any favorable ways

Side note: I'm not one to believe stuff that isn't scientifically proven, astrology (and religion) included. However, I don't write these stuffs off either. Sometimes they have some true beneficial uses to ones who do believe in it and I find it fascinating (and always part of me wishes it is true and hopes it will be scientifically proven in future). I see it's use for me only to inspire now; In this case to inspire my girl and her personal growth and then admittedly selfishly getting more out of our relationship myself as well. But I think that's only for the better for the both of us. As long as she is receptive to it of course. That's yet to be proven

Okay, so, full stop. It sounds like you're already fairly involved with her, and you're roped in. I'm getting the sense breaking up isn't really on the table or something you're thinking about, yeah?

The problem with borderlines is that they're so goddamn good with emotional manipulation is you're not going to know what hit you until you wake up and realize you're lying in little pieces scattered all over the railroad tracks. There's nothing you can do to defend against it, and you'll hardly see it coming.

On the other hand, it might just be something you need to go through and just have the experience before you're able to really believe it; sometimes you've just got to take a good reaming before you learn to let the soap go. Assuming that's the case, a few guidelines:

• Drop the "I've got to figure her out!" stuff. Every guy does this; you will not figure her out; her thinking is alien to you, even if you're über high empathy. If she's borderline (sounds like she is), she is LEGITIMATELY crazy, which means paranoid ideation, scattered thinking, and gross misinterpretations of your actions; you can't get your head inside that while still retaining your own sanity

• Do not ever take her on as a project. Borderlines attract people who want to help them / save them; that's how they trap you and suck you dry

• Start building your MAD stockpile immediately. If she starts going thermonuclear on you, you need to be able to nuke her back hard to get her to quit

• Cordon her off from the rest of your life as much as possible. When it ends, she'll probably try to sour everyone she has in common with you on you - limit her ability to do that from the get-go

Even if you must experience it for yourself (or it's too hard to leave), you should be able to take a few simple precautions to limit the fallout (within reason; it's still going to be messy regardless what you do).

Chase

 

[Little Jester]

Hey guys,

Weekend passed. She was all smiles and good behavior since the "Do you think I'm crazy" morning. Wonder how long we'll keep this up
Playing around with astrology was a cool thing btw. So much new stuffs to talk about all of a sudden. Is amazing! And I embraced this piece from one of the zodiac compatibility articles that said "She is capable of great sacrifice in order to reach a goal, so she'll also try to make the relationship work, you won't be the only one trying.". I showed her that with a "See now" smile.

Funny I normally feel so close to her, but I experienced something off this weekend in myself. A couple of times I look at her and I'm thinking "borderline" and then she feels sort of alien to me. It's a mixture of fear and disgust to her time bomb behaviors and I feel like I'm subconsciously on my toes as to not to trip the bomb, while at the same time consciously moving my own personal borders outward slowly as to see how far I can go, before she flips a switch in her head or something. It is a weird dynamic.

Anyways...

Okay, so, full stop. It sounds like you're already fairly involved with her, and you're roped in. I'm getting the sense breaking up isn't really on the table or something you're thinking about, yeah?

I can see why this is important and I can only say whenever she brings up the Disney picture of happily ever after, I'm the one telling her I'd love to go all the way with her IF that is possible with us, as it takes hard work from the both of us, feelings change, etc... She doesn't like it, but that's the healthy truth, right?

In ways I'm dedicated to this relationship and breaking up is not the first thing on my mind. However, in the back of my mind it remains a possibility that things can end, if things don't line up with my and/or her needs and we no longer can get to the bottom of things talking about them peacefully..

My current response also to "Will you suddenly throw everything back in my face / walk out on me / cheat on me, if my dramatics keep up / I don't mature soon" is "don't be silly. We'll always talk first. Only if we can't work things out, it might be better to separate our ways. But I have faith in us and I know you're working hard on this yourself."

I think this is healthy, but from the guidelines you posted I get you'd recommend a more aggressive stance here especially when her behaviors are off (nuking back)... I hope I will not overreact or act too weak when the time comes for true action beyond not talking to her when she's moody and talking to her about the problem when she's good, but time will tell.

The problem with borderlines is that they're so goddamn good with emotional manipulation is you're not going to know what hit you until you wake up and realize you're lying in little pieces scattered all over the railroad tracks. There's nothing you can do to defend against it, and you'll hardly see it coming.

On the other hand, it might just be something you need to go through and just have the experience before you're able to really believe it; sometimes you've just got to take a good reaming before you learn to let the soap go.

Noted Chase and thanks for the guidelines. I'll read these every now and then. Keep them at the back of my head. And I'm reading up more and more on these stuffs about borderline everywhere, with the idea of my girl being like that. Trying not to over analyze though. Cause if you look hard at anybody you know, a couple of borderline treats are always mildly available in people their personalities. But I think it's better to assume the worst here, so that you're prepared for the worst. It can only turn out for the better then, no matter if it is true.

Saying that I'm wondering: There could be a scale there right? I mean it's not "you are borderline, or you are not". It's more like you show some or a lot of the signs in a mild or aggressive way. You can be on the far end of not being or being, but also somewhere in the middle and then it comes down to what is still acceptable to an individual and what is not. So things can be considered mild or aggressive relatively to the other person's life. And one might even walk the scale, derailing more, or getting more control over it with time.

Thinking this is a bit of a gamble here and time will tell if this has been a good investment or not. For anyone with experience of this being a bad investment, they'll rather not play and tell others (me) not to play. And I'm the hardheaded newby trying my luck here, cause I need my own reference points on that... Oh well. At least I come prepared

Thank you very much!

 

[Chase]

Trying not to over analyze though. Cause if you look hard at anybody you know, a couple of borderline treats are always mildly available in people their personalities. But I think it's better to assume the worst here, so that you're prepared for the worst. It can only turn out for the better then, no matter if it is true.

Saying that I'm wondering: There could be a scale there right? I mean it's not "you are borderline, or you are not". It's more like you show some or a lot of the signs in a mild or aggressive way. You can be on the far end of not being or being, but also somewhere in the middle and then it comes down to what is still acceptable to an individual and what is not. So things can be considered mild or aggressive relatively to the other person's life. And one might even walk the scale, derailing more, or getting more control over it with time.

It's true, there is a scale. There are people I've known who've been kinda borderline... and then others who are just full blown.

Generally, it gets worse with age until the mid-30s or early-40s, then starts becoming milder.

Thinking this is a bit of a gamble here and time will tell if this has been a good investment or not. For anyone with experience of this being a bad investment, they'll rather not play and tell others (me) not to play. And I'm the hardheaded newby trying my luck here, cause I need my own reference points on that... Oh well. At least I come prepared

Thank you very much!

Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger... well, once you've recovered from the injuries

Just don't go handing over the keys to your bank account or letting her convince you to throw away [XYZ] really important thing or cut ties with [ABC] important people in your life, and you'll be fine, if in for tumult and turbulence.

If you have anything in your life more important than learning relationships though, do strongly consider ways to keep a lid on this one and prevent yourself from being an enabler, too.

Chase