- Joined
- Jul 18, 2023
- Messages
- 28
Hi folks!
This is the final LR post that's part of my "8 week recap" in my newbie journal. I am going thru the dates from online dating of the past 8 weeks to document them, see what I can learn from them, and move on so that I can gain skills in what I aim to be doing more of: day & night game.
People
Me: 5'10" European guy, long brown hair, attractive in the face, skinny, dressed in olive chinos, and black shirt, plus faux leather jacket, black sneakers.
Her: 5'8" Black long curly hair, "mixed-race" woman, big girl, large breats and butt, plain face with large glasses, black form-fitting single piece outfit and doc martens.
I met this girl online via Bumble. She is in town for 2 months from Australia, working a lot and traveling around the whole area for work. She also goes off on the weekends so she can enjoy being in Europe for the short time. Seems like a good candidate for a short-term FWB.
Note to self: A frame was set by the context, not going to be long term thing...but you still need to set a not-your-boyfriend frame yourself! I did not do this.. and I think this led to some of the LMR later on.
Venues
Where we met: Central train station
First spot: Art gallery
Second spot: Bar/restaurant
Pull location: My apartment - 10 min walk from the second spot.
The Date
Plan: Go to art gallery, bring her somewhere closer to my place (or hers if it's close by and more convenient), then try and make it happen! I try to avoid my place because I live with other people.
Monday. National holiday. We meet at the station, hug - and go right to the art gallery. It's raining super hard, so that's why we opted for this plan on a day where everything is closed except for a few restaurants and this museum.
We walk around the whole place, checking each exhibit. I feel like this isn't my favorite way to start a date but an activity is a good way to get comfortable with each other while having something to talk about. It was quite a bit of modern art, so plenty of opportunity for making fun of it, and seeing things with innuendo at least.
I do my best to integrate some kino here and there. There was a mini cinema room, so I thought it was a good chance to sit nice and close to each other, bodies touching the whole time.
Moving on
Once we were done with the museum, the rain had finally stopped. I decided to take her to a nice viewpoint nearby. She loved that, plenty of time take in the scenery while I kept deep diving her. I managed to make some sexual jokes, and I found out she's really into women's literature. I pry her on this.
Me: "What kind of women's books?"
"I don't know if I should say that"
Me: "what? you're not ashamed of your reading choices are you?
"Oh my god...I'm blushing..I like reading romance novels"
me: "How is that something to be embarassed about? What kind of romance novels?"
"uhhhh.. I don't think I can say this out loud" (she then types it into her phone and shows me - it says SMUT.
I then basically came across as not shocked.., kind of like I was expecting you to say something a lot more shocking than that, seems like fun reading to me!
Then went into talking about how I think it's important to stress I am open minded, you can be into whatever you like.
"I thought you were you gonna say it was some kind of furry porn fan fiction"
*laughs* hah OMG no, that's too far for me.
It was getting cold, so I suggested a place indoors.
Next spot
We go to a restaurant/bar place a few minutes away. Really nice spot with a view and tall ceilings.
We get hot teas and I keep deep diving her. I find out she used to be a top athlete in her sport and won gold for Australia for her age group, and continues to do coaching on the side. Pretty impressed by that and she was almost embarrassed to admit it.
We were sat across from each other, wasn't easy to get a ton of kino in. I think a LOT about this when i'm on dates. Am I touching her enough, at the right time? I focus on the strong eye contact still (not totally automatic) and I'm often second-guessing myself about how to flirt properly...
BUT she seems to be having a good time!
The Pull
I suggest we enjoy something warming and soothing after this cold wintery day.. "I can make you a delicious soup over at my place. Won't take long!" I describe the recipe and she's really into it. I need a few more ingredients though, so I tell her we can get a few things from the corner store on the way home.
She pays for our drinks. Then we go. (She texts me the next day wondering and worrying.. if this was too dominant of a move. LOL)
Once we are home, I give her the tour of the flat. Then I put some music on, and get the ingredients going. Turns out my flatmates ate the main ingredient I was going to use! So I change plans and improvise a new meal that should be just as tasty. I get her to help me chop, and the meal is on the way. She's sitting in the corner of the table where I can't sit with my body touching her, she's cornered herself for the entire time we were in the kitchen, from prep to end of mealtime. I found this a bit sub-optimal for kino.
Escalation
We eat, we chat.. then I tell her.. "Hey, have you ever seen (type of light) before? I just got one and it's in the room next door!" "What? Here? Yeah I definitely want to see that!"
The light is in the living room, so we get seated on the couch.
Note to self: I think a smart move would be to set it up in my bedroom ahead of a date, so that we can transition straight to my bed in future dates.
She loves the light projection, and we watch it for a while. As I set it up, and sit very close to her in a bit of a cuddle position (the couch is in two parts, one of them juuust big enough to fit us both. I lean in for the kiss, and we start to make-out.
She mentions that she's wearing some thermal underclothing, and she feels a bit embarassed about it, and was pulling down her dress to hide it.
I make light of it, no big deal, and just go back to kissing her.
LMR
After I made out with her for a little bit, which we were clearly both enjoying very much... I ask her if she would like to go lie down.
"Yes, but I have to tell you something. I have a rule that I don't have sex on the first date."
So here we go.. I instantly felt like I must have fucked up somewhere. She's in the country for 2 months and extremely busy too.. how much time do you think we have here? I must have set myself up as some kind of potential boyfriend that she might even dream of seeing again after her trip? In any case I did not see that one coming at all. I don't remember what I said exactly, probably something like:
"yeah that's fine" - then proceeded to keep making out with her slowly and teasing her with my lips.
In retrospect, I wonder if it's ever a good idea to challenge a rule like that a little bit. Such as mentioning bringing up scarcity "We won't have many opportunities to see each other", "what's wrong with a little adventure while you're out in europe?", "What do you think is going to happen, I'm going to run off to Colombia if we have some fun?", "I understand that you have your rule, but you're not back home, you're out experiencing and having adventures..."
Let me know what you think, or what you would have done!
Slow build-up
We go to my room and lie on the bed. I kiss her.. we make out...then I slowly start kissing her next...then I bring my hand to her throat and gently pull down (she loved this!)...go back and forth like this.. and she pulls down her neckline so that I can access her tits. I lick her hard nipples and generally have a lot of fun with her breasts, come back up for kissing and playing with her neck, then back down again...
I put my hand down to her vagina.. she pulls my hand away. I don't make a deal out of it, I just go back to kissing her.
She's getting hot and heavy though, she's taking my shirt off..she's feeling my cock through my pants.. "oh you're so big". I'm thinking I'm going to get there!
So I keep working her lips, neck and breasts... she's enjoying herself... I place her hand from my leg, to my crotch... she likes it, she's feeling me thru my pants...
Then she tells me "I'm not going to have sex with you, but I want to suck your cock. I want you to come in my mouth and i'll suck you right up"
Let me tell you guys... I'm a total sucker for a BJ. I actually don't see how sucking my dick isn't sex. It's sex! It's not PIV.. a big step away in some cases, but that's a seriously intimate act from someone who says they have a "rule" about not having sex.
So she takes my pants off (at this point i'm naked while she's pretty much still fully dressed in her one-piece item....) and goes for it. It feels amazing and before long the deed is done.
I never managed to overcome the LMR for full PIV sex. I'm not sure if I should have told her something like..."I'll let you suck my dick if I can eat your pussy".. or something along those lines...something to get her pants off....
What would you have done?
After sex
We cuddle for a bit. She tells me that she "wishes she didn't have to leave", basically saying that 2 months isn't enough and that she's really happy she met me. Alarm bells are going off in my head now! WHAT KIND of frame did I set here?? She is giving me the vibe of a woman this doesn't usually have a ONS or FWB situation, and did not intend for this at all, despite the obvious situation presented by her short stint in the country.
retrospect: I think I should have disqualified myself as a boyfriend at the restaurant.. I should have said something solid to re-frame! Instead, I basically said something along the lines of "ah yeah, well that's life".. kind of shrugging off the issue of her not being around for long... NOT happy with that response. I think that was an opportunity to say something like "hey that's not a bad thing at all, we get to have our fun and experience something together for a short time, let loose a little, and make that part of your European experience....blablabla...".. basically try to frame the short time frame as something positive! Something to seize and enjoy for what it is.... instead of regret cos you are missing out on a boyfriend candidate!
She was also quite insecure about her size and taught i was "crazy" for calling her sexy while in bed. This could be an ATTAINABILITY issue as well? Perhaps she saw me as kind of "out of her league" and thought she doesn't want to spoil her chance with this "boyfriend candidate" by giving it up on the first date?
Next steps
She is off on travel for a little while, and returning next week. She's been messaging me, and trying to schedule our next date. I am open to seeing her again, because I want to go all the way with PIV and tap that phat ass. I don't have any other options at this stage in my pipeline.. so i'm thinking of doing it even though she's just about attractive enough for me to consider her as a FWB candidate.
Take-away points
--My eye contact and kino esclatation seems to be fine so far with her. I see that thinking about kino logistics is good, and I need to keep working on that - such as thinking ahead about where chairs are placed in my place, and also think about the placement of my lighting to bring things to my bed even faster.
-- FRAME SETTING. I have never been good at this.. I tend to place myself as the boyfriend candidate RIGHT AWAY. My natural setting is to be very friendly and I have lots of qualities that girls like for a BF, so this is a challenge for me and I MUST be able to develop this in order to get a ONS or FWB scenario with the women I like.
-- Dealing with LMR! This is my first LMR test I've dealt with once reaching a make-out session... I have not had a women stop me from going all the way once we reached the making out stage since I was 19 years old.. that came as a total curve-ball, especially from a woman I thought was thinking the same thing as me...(only in town for a short time = let's get it on!). But the LMR might have been surmountable, as she did go for oral sex... not sure what to have tried but I am not more comfortable with the idea of pushing on and on to see how far you can take it.. and not just say "OK!" to everything.
-- DO NOT ASSUME she thinks the way you do.. you still need to set the scene for her.
-- Dealing with women's insecurities in a sexy and credible way - not sure how to do this yet.. perhaps this would have smoothed my attainability and lessened her LMR.
This is the final LR post that's part of my "8 week recap" in my newbie journal. I am going thru the dates from online dating of the past 8 weeks to document them, see what I can learn from them, and move on so that I can gain skills in what I aim to be doing more of: day & night game.
People
Me: 5'10" European guy, long brown hair, attractive in the face, skinny, dressed in olive chinos, and black shirt, plus faux leather jacket, black sneakers.
Her: 5'8" Black long curly hair, "mixed-race" woman, big girl, large breats and butt, plain face with large glasses, black form-fitting single piece outfit and doc martens.
I met this girl online via Bumble. She is in town for 2 months from Australia, working a lot and traveling around the whole area for work. She also goes off on the weekends so she can enjoy being in Europe for the short time. Seems like a good candidate for a short-term FWB.
Note to self: A frame was set by the context, not going to be long term thing...but you still need to set a not-your-boyfriend frame yourself! I did not do this.. and I think this led to some of the LMR later on.
Venues
Where we met: Central train station
First spot: Art gallery
Second spot: Bar/restaurant
Pull location: My apartment - 10 min walk from the second spot.
The Date
Plan: Go to art gallery, bring her somewhere closer to my place (or hers if it's close by and more convenient), then try and make it happen! I try to avoid my place because I live with other people.
Monday. National holiday. We meet at the station, hug - and go right to the art gallery. It's raining super hard, so that's why we opted for this plan on a day where everything is closed except for a few restaurants and this museum.
We walk around the whole place, checking each exhibit. I feel like this isn't my favorite way to start a date but an activity is a good way to get comfortable with each other while having something to talk about. It was quite a bit of modern art, so plenty of opportunity for making fun of it, and seeing things with innuendo at least.
I do my best to integrate some kino here and there. There was a mini cinema room, so I thought it was a good chance to sit nice and close to each other, bodies touching the whole time.
Moving on
Once we were done with the museum, the rain had finally stopped. I decided to take her to a nice viewpoint nearby. She loved that, plenty of time take in the scenery while I kept deep diving her. I managed to make some sexual jokes, and I found out she's really into women's literature. I pry her on this.
Me: "What kind of women's books?"
"I don't know if I should say that"
Me: "what? you're not ashamed of your reading choices are you?
"Oh my god...I'm blushing..I like reading romance novels"
me: "How is that something to be embarassed about? What kind of romance novels?"
"uhhhh.. I don't think I can say this out loud" (she then types it into her phone and shows me - it says SMUT.
I then basically came across as not shocked.., kind of like I was expecting you to say something a lot more shocking than that, seems like fun reading to me!
Then went into talking about how I think it's important to stress I am open minded, you can be into whatever you like.
"I thought you were you gonna say it was some kind of furry porn fan fiction"
*laughs* hah OMG no, that's too far for me.
It was getting cold, so I suggested a place indoors.
Next spot
We go to a restaurant/bar place a few minutes away. Really nice spot with a view and tall ceilings.
We get hot teas and I keep deep diving her. I find out she used to be a top athlete in her sport and won gold for Australia for her age group, and continues to do coaching on the side. Pretty impressed by that and she was almost embarrassed to admit it.
We were sat across from each other, wasn't easy to get a ton of kino in. I think a LOT about this when i'm on dates. Am I touching her enough, at the right time? I focus on the strong eye contact still (not totally automatic) and I'm often second-guessing myself about how to flirt properly...
BUT she seems to be having a good time!
The Pull
I suggest we enjoy something warming and soothing after this cold wintery day.. "I can make you a delicious soup over at my place. Won't take long!" I describe the recipe and she's really into it. I need a few more ingredients though, so I tell her we can get a few things from the corner store on the way home.
She pays for our drinks. Then we go. (She texts me the next day wondering and worrying.. if this was too dominant of a move. LOL)
Once we are home, I give her the tour of the flat. Then I put some music on, and get the ingredients going. Turns out my flatmates ate the main ingredient I was going to use! So I change plans and improvise a new meal that should be just as tasty. I get her to help me chop, and the meal is on the way. She's sitting in the corner of the table where I can't sit with my body touching her, she's cornered herself for the entire time we were in the kitchen, from prep to end of mealtime. I found this a bit sub-optimal for kino.
Escalation
We eat, we chat.. then I tell her.. "Hey, have you ever seen (type of light) before? I just got one and it's in the room next door!" "What? Here? Yeah I definitely want to see that!"
The light is in the living room, so we get seated on the couch.
Note to self: I think a smart move would be to set it up in my bedroom ahead of a date, so that we can transition straight to my bed in future dates.
She loves the light projection, and we watch it for a while. As I set it up, and sit very close to her in a bit of a cuddle position (the couch is in two parts, one of them juuust big enough to fit us both. I lean in for the kiss, and we start to make-out.
She mentions that she's wearing some thermal underclothing, and she feels a bit embarassed about it, and was pulling down her dress to hide it.
I make light of it, no big deal, and just go back to kissing her.
LMR
After I made out with her for a little bit, which we were clearly both enjoying very much... I ask her if she would like to go lie down.
"Yes, but I have to tell you something. I have a rule that I don't have sex on the first date."
So here we go.. I instantly felt like I must have fucked up somewhere. She's in the country for 2 months and extremely busy too.. how much time do you think we have here? I must have set myself up as some kind of potential boyfriend that she might even dream of seeing again after her trip? In any case I did not see that one coming at all. I don't remember what I said exactly, probably something like:
"yeah that's fine" - then proceeded to keep making out with her slowly and teasing her with my lips.
In retrospect, I wonder if it's ever a good idea to challenge a rule like that a little bit. Such as mentioning bringing up scarcity "We won't have many opportunities to see each other", "what's wrong with a little adventure while you're out in europe?", "What do you think is going to happen, I'm going to run off to Colombia if we have some fun?", "I understand that you have your rule, but you're not back home, you're out experiencing and having adventures..."
Let me know what you think, or what you would have done!
Slow build-up
We go to my room and lie on the bed. I kiss her.. we make out...then I slowly start kissing her next...then I bring my hand to her throat and gently pull down (she loved this!)...go back and forth like this.. and she pulls down her neckline so that I can access her tits. I lick her hard nipples and generally have a lot of fun with her breasts, come back up for kissing and playing with her neck, then back down again...
I put my hand down to her vagina.. she pulls my hand away. I don't make a deal out of it, I just go back to kissing her.
She's getting hot and heavy though, she's taking my shirt off..she's feeling my cock through my pants.. "oh you're so big". I'm thinking I'm going to get there!
So I keep working her lips, neck and breasts... she's enjoying herself... I place her hand from my leg, to my crotch... she likes it, she's feeling me thru my pants...
Then she tells me "I'm not going to have sex with you, but I want to suck your cock. I want you to come in my mouth and i'll suck you right up"
Let me tell you guys... I'm a total sucker for a BJ. I actually don't see how sucking my dick isn't sex. It's sex! It's not PIV.. a big step away in some cases, but that's a seriously intimate act from someone who says they have a "rule" about not having sex.
So she takes my pants off (at this point i'm naked while she's pretty much still fully dressed in her one-piece item....) and goes for it. It feels amazing and before long the deed is done.
I never managed to overcome the LMR for full PIV sex. I'm not sure if I should have told her something like..."I'll let you suck my dick if I can eat your pussy".. or something along those lines...something to get her pants off....
What would you have done?
After sex
We cuddle for a bit. She tells me that she "wishes she didn't have to leave", basically saying that 2 months isn't enough and that she's really happy she met me. Alarm bells are going off in my head now! WHAT KIND of frame did I set here?? She is giving me the vibe of a woman this doesn't usually have a ONS or FWB situation, and did not intend for this at all, despite the obvious situation presented by her short stint in the country.
retrospect: I think I should have disqualified myself as a boyfriend at the restaurant.. I should have said something solid to re-frame! Instead, I basically said something along the lines of "ah yeah, well that's life".. kind of shrugging off the issue of her not being around for long... NOT happy with that response. I think that was an opportunity to say something like "hey that's not a bad thing at all, we get to have our fun and experience something together for a short time, let loose a little, and make that part of your European experience....blablabla...".. basically try to frame the short time frame as something positive! Something to seize and enjoy for what it is.... instead of regret cos you are missing out on a boyfriend candidate!
She was also quite insecure about her size and taught i was "crazy" for calling her sexy while in bed. This could be an ATTAINABILITY issue as well? Perhaps she saw me as kind of "out of her league" and thought she doesn't want to spoil her chance with this "boyfriend candidate" by giving it up on the first date?
Next steps
She is off on travel for a little while, and returning next week. She's been messaging me, and trying to schedule our next date. I am open to seeing her again, because I want to go all the way with PIV and tap that phat ass. I don't have any other options at this stage in my pipeline.. so i'm thinking of doing it even though she's just about attractive enough for me to consider her as a FWB candidate.
Take-away points
--My eye contact and kino esclatation seems to be fine so far with her. I see that thinking about kino logistics is good, and I need to keep working on that - such as thinking ahead about where chairs are placed in my place, and also think about the placement of my lighting to bring things to my bed even faster.
-- FRAME SETTING. I have never been good at this.. I tend to place myself as the boyfriend candidate RIGHT AWAY. My natural setting is to be very friendly and I have lots of qualities that girls like for a BF, so this is a challenge for me and I MUST be able to develop this in order to get a ONS or FWB scenario with the women I like.
-- Dealing with LMR! This is my first LMR test I've dealt with once reaching a make-out session... I have not had a women stop me from going all the way once we reached the making out stage since I was 19 years old.. that came as a total curve-ball, especially from a woman I thought was thinking the same thing as me...(only in town for a short time = let's get it on!). But the LMR might have been surmountable, as she did go for oral sex... not sure what to have tried but I am not more comfortable with the idea of pushing on and on to see how far you can take it.. and not just say "OK!" to everything.
-- DO NOT ASSUME she thinks the way you do.. you still need to set the scene for her.
-- Dealing with women's insecurities in a sexy and credible way - not sure how to do this yet.. perhaps this would have smoothed my attainability and lessened her LMR.