Girl is not affectionate

[Major Lance]

Hello guys!

In March i started going to the the gym again and i met this cute girl there. We always go after training for a coffee at a nearby place.
Sometimes with other people, sometimes just the 2 of us. Anyway, i asked her out after a couple of times we met and she accepted.

I texted her next week and scheduled a date for next day, which she cancelled but she texted me the next week for another meetup.
We went for a drink at one place and then to a pool hall. We laughed, had a good connection and i touched her a lot. She bumped a lot into me while we were walking (i also noticed that when we are walking after the gym) so i think there was attraction from her side.

She drove me home after the date and before i got out i took her hand and looked at her. She didn't mind the touch but i wasn't really close to her and it felt awkward to close the distance and go for the kiss. (Probably a mistake on my part).

2 weeks later i texted her for another date at my place and she accepted. We we're chatting, eating and after that i sat on the couch to have a drink. She kept sitting on the chair at the table. I told her to come sit next to me but she didn't want to and her body language was closed. Then she said she doesn't even know me and what kind of expectations do i have. Later, i managed to convince her to sit next to me.

I touched her forearm and her palm. She wasn't against it at first but then said that she doesn't feel like it so i backed off. I tried to touch her foot with my foot but she was just kind of passive. We talked, laughed and listened to music. Didn't go for the kiss again. She spent 4 hours at my place.

Now, she told me that her mom died 4,5 months ago and her mom and dad didn't have a healthy relationship, there was a lot of shouting and name calling.

We talk normally and joke about things, she is following my lead and "seems" interested but any time i try some kind of touch she is kind of meh about it, like a cold fish. No affection from her but i always try to initiate some kind of physical contact so i don't slip into a friendly vibe.

We see each other 3 times a week at the gym. At this point, i'm getting bored and i think she just likes the attention.
Should i ask her out 1 more time and try to kiss her just to be sure or simply walk away?


Any thoughts are appreciated!

Edit: She also told me her last relationship was 6 years ago and that she was happy being alone.

 

[Ambiance]

Hey Major Lance!

I'd recommend moving faster in all facets:

- Having two weeks between your first and second date is just asking for something to interfere with your progress, not to mention attraction having an expiration date

- On the first date, you should have either: tried to get her alone at your place or hers during your first date (the fact she kept playfully bumping into you was a big escalation window), OR keep the first date to one hour of chatting over coffee/the like if you're not comfortable going for first date sex. Having a big and involved first date without sex or intimacy is typically very bad for so many reasons I could get into if you want

- On the second date, in your shoes I would have done what Chase calls a spontaneous kiss (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-kiss-girl-no-ones-ever-kissed-her) . Until you are very experienced, you should be kissing girls within 10-15 minutes of getting somewhere you can have sex with them, be it your place, her place, somewhere else isolated, etc

You have a poor foundation with this girl, but there is little harm in trying to get her on a third date. What's the worst thing that could happen, she'll reject you and you have to see her at the gym? In my experience if things go south with a girl that frequents a place you frequent, you can (nicely) mostly ignore her and claim your territory, and she'll likely adjust her schedule to avoid seeing you. And if not, you can actually get her interested again by flirting with other girls in front of her!

If she does agree to come out on a third date (this girl seems pretty lonely, which plays to your advantage), have her come over to cook a meal, and kiss her at least once within 10-15 minutes. You can use spontaneous kisses to get her excited without rushing things, then escalate quickly to sex.

Finally, keep meeting more women Whenever you're having trouble cracking a particular girl, occupying yourself with a bunch of other girls is generally one of the best solutions.

LMK if you have any thoughts or questions, and good luck!

 

[Will_V]

Sounds like you've got to take a stronger lead here and be more certain of yourself. Not only is two weeks a long time between dates but ending the date with awkward hand holding is going to give her some mixed signals about whether you know what you want/are doing.

Trying to find ways to touch her foot with yours is not where you want to be on the second date. Find ways to get your hands on her a lot more, communicate less investment and more desire for fun, as long as your frame remains strong she will open up quickly.

 

[foggy]

Then she said she doesn't even know me and what kind of expectations do i have.

could you expand more, what happened here? what are your expectations and what are hers?

 

[Major Lance]

- On the second date, in your shoes I would have done what Chase calls a spontaneous kiss (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-kiss-girl-no-ones-ever-kissed-her) . Until you are very experienced, you should be kissing girls within 10-15 minutes of getting somewhere you can have sex with them, be it your place, her place, somewhere else isolated, etc

Hey Ambiance, thanks for your reply!

The spontaneous kiss is a good idea, i'll try to do that if i schedule another date with her.

When she arrived, we were first sitting at the dining room table so we weren't so close. The "10 -15 min rule" works a little different here, according to Chase's "Home date" podcast. You have to go through the dating process, gradually escalating and when we are both close to each other and i'm ready to fully escalate, then the 10 min rule starts. Otherwise it feels too rushed.

But i get the gist of it, i should have tried to kiss her when she sat next to me on the couch. As Will stated above, i should be more certain of what i want and hold my frame.

Having a big and involved first date without sex or intimacy is typically very bad for so many reasons I could get into if you want

I think i read before on one of Chase's articles why that is bad but feel free to elaborate more, maybe i need a refresher.
Thanks!

 

[Major Lance]

Not only is two weeks a long time between dates but ending the date with awkward hand holding is going to give her some mixed signals about whether you know what you want/are doing.

Hey Will, thanks for your reply!

I couldn't schedule a date next week, i was busy and i told her that i was gonna be unavailable. Does that really play that much into her attraction?

 

[Major Lance]

could you expand more, what happened here? what are your expectations and what are hers?

I said calmly, with a smile: "We are just hanging out and having fun. We don't have to do anything that we don't want to do."
I didn't ask her expectations because i didn't want it to become a serious discussion.

 

[foggy]

I said calmly, with a smile: "We are just hanging out and having fun. We don't have to do anything that we don't want to do."
I didn't ask her expectations because i didn't want it to become a serious discussion.

herein lies a problem.

when you and a girl have a difference in frame about intentions, it leads to resistance from the girl in the moment. and can lead to continued resistance overall. so you must get on the same page with the girl to bring down her resistances.

your frame here was too narrow and implied something very specific "i want to fuck you." meanwhile her frame is totally different "i want a fling" "i want a boyfriend" "i want xxx." This leads to her being hesitant...shes thinking, he wants something totally different! he might pump and dump me. hes cool but im not going to let him escalate.

you don't have to submit to her frame if that's not what you're looking for...all you need to do is play a wider one! and watch as she becomes more compliant.

Example Frames To Set

• "i want to keep spending time with you and see where it goes" is one I have used before in this situation and succeeded.
• the middle length relationship

 

[Major Lance]

herein lies a problem.

when you and a girl have a difference in frame about intentions, it leads to resistance from the girl in the moment. and can lead to continued resistance overall. so you must get on the same page with the girl to bring down her resistances.

your frame here was too narrow and implied something very specific "i want to fuck you." meanwhile her frame is totally different "i want a fling" "i want a boyfriend" "i want xxx." This leads to her being hesitant...shes thinking, he wants something totally different! he might pump and dump me. hes cool but im not going to let him escalate.

you don't have to submit to her frame if that's not what you're looking for...all you need to do is play a wider one! and watch as she becomes more compliant.

Example Frames To Set

• "i want to keep spending time with you and see where it goes" is one I have used before in this situation and succeeded.
• the middle length relationship

Interesting. Well, it looks like i definitely have to work on addressing those objections with a better frame.
I checked the links, there is some good stuff there. Thanks man!

Cheers

 

[Will_V]

Hey Will, thanks for your reply!

I couldn't schedule a date next week, i was busy and i told her that i was gonna be unavailable. Does that really play that much into her attraction?

I doubt it will affect things much. It's more important what happens when she's with you.