Expectations Girl resisting a one sided open relationship

[determined]

What's the best strategy to get a girl who says she would not be willing to share me to change her mind? What are the odds that it'll succeed?

I met this girl 6 months ago. At first very slowly, and then we started seeing each other more and more. Only 3 months ago did we sleep together for the first time, which was probably like the 10th date or something. Reason it took so long is she had trust issues and fear of abandonment after some bad relationships and was looking for something stable, and I was patient because I was sleeping with other girls.

Since then we've been apart for 1.5 months while I was travelling, so let's say we've spent 1.5 months together since sex. Honestly, it's great. First girl in years I could see in my life indefinitely. However, it won't be sustainable if I must be exclusive.

Pretty quickly after first sex she started bringing up a relationship. At first I deflected, but she kept bringing it up. When I eventually gave in to having that conversation, it went something like this (much much abbreviated)

me: What is it you really want to gain by being my girlfriend?
her: To trust that your intentions are to have something stable and long term with me
me: Got it. I do see you as someone I want in my life for a long time. Look, for all intents and purposes we already are boyfriend and girlfriend given the amount of time we spend together. My only hesitation is that committing to one girl is a very big deal and I don't want to feel trapped. I do want want something long term with you, which is why I don't want to put us in a position where I will feel trapped and will feel like it's not sustainable. I want to make you happy, in a way where I'll also be happy myself.

She really liked the being boyfriend/girlfriend part, but didn't like the me sleeping with other girls part. She said that's something she couldn't do and if I slept with anyone else it'd end our relationship. No chance of agreement that day, so we agreed to continue the conversation another day. She asked that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her. The insinuation is that she'd end the relationship if I do. Btw she'd told me before she's the jealous type.

That's totally fine for an initial reaction - my approach was to prolong the discussion as much as possible over weeks or months, and let her come to me with time.

A few days later she told me me she'd been thinking about it and it's really been bothering her. We discussed it some more. I explained to her how it wouldn't change my feelings for her because men and women are different, evolution, kings have always had many women, etc. No resolution, but more stuff for her to ponder. We talked about it again another day, where we went even deeper and she told me that she's open minded and willing to learn from me, but at the same time can't imagine being with me if I sleep with other girls. Maybe if I'm out of the country for months, but not if it's just a few weeks' vacation and definitely not if I'm in the same city as her. She would feel like she doesn't fulfill me and wouldn't understand why I'm with her. I explained again that men and women are different and while for her as a women that's true, men don't get attached in the same way. She didn't accept it. I told her it's totally fine, I don't want to teach her or convince her or force her to do anything. I know about her abandonment issues and that this is very different from what she's used to, and I just want to fulfill her and maybe she'll feel differently when she feels more and more valued and secure with me. Another day she brought it up. This time she started crying that it's really bothering her and she knows she told me she's open minded and is willing to learn, but she takes it back and she can't do it. I consoled her and we were good for that day. She asked again that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her.

Meanwhile I haven't been sleeping with other girls, but it's been due to chance. I dropped the fuck buddies I wasn't really into because what's the point when I have her. I had 1 fuck buddy I would've kept, but shortly after starting to sleep with this girl, the fuck buddy dropped me. Since then I've met more girls, but I'm being very selective and also work has been crazy. So I've brought 2 girls home, but didn't manage to sleep with them.

So, what's my best path forward? I can only delay for so long - at some point she'll ask for a definitive answer. Also at some point I will sleep with someone else, at which point I'd be semi-lying if I didn't tell her since she asked me to.

She's crazy about me and I think she knows she can't replace me, so I have leverage. I'm also crazy about her so I want to find a way to make it work. Is it possible to convince a girl who feels this way?

 

[Regal Tiger]

What's the best strategy to get a girl who says she would not be willing to share me to change her mind? What are the odds that it'll succeed?

I met this girl 6 months ago. At first very slowly, and then we started seeing each other more and more. Only 3 months ago did we sleep together for the first time, which was probably like the 10th date or something. Reason it took so long is she had trust issues and fear of abandonment after some bad relationships and was looking for something stable, and I was patient because I was sleeping with other girls.

Sounds like she was in control of the relationship, and when the girl is in control of the relationship you either have one helluva an uphill battle to regain the reins, or you do what she wants. And I say that it sounds like she is the one in control because she made you wait for sex for so long. Then, once it happened she immediately went to work on defining the relationship and wouldn't let you dodge around it.

Think about it this way, has any of your fuckbuddies tried to define the relationship or did they just go along with it before sex? That's because you are the one in control with the fuckbuddies and they accept that. Doesn't mean you can't escalate the relationship later if you want (which is the preferred way of doing things because of this power dynamic) because you can, at which point then the girl starts trying to define things. But at that point, she has little bargaining power because you've already had sex.

However, with this girl she basically got you into a relationship long before sex. And there's something that Kevin Samuels said that has always stuck with me: women gain value in our eyes the longer they've been in a relationship with us. And for the most part I think that's true, which is another reason why it's important to start out the relationship on our terms (sex happening quickly). Because if you start on her terms then you have little to no bargaining power when it comes down to the relationship stuff.

This is something that if you think about, you'll recognize deep down you've had some thoughts like this as well, noticing things like not quite feeling 100% in control of the relationship and maybe even second guessing yourself (which is why I believe, down below you mention dropping your fuckbuddies, not because it's something that you want but because it's something that she wanted). Really try to analyze why you dropped your fuckbuddies: was it because you wanted to spend more energy/time/sex with your number 1 girl or was it because the fuckbuddy/ies started causing trouble?

I'd be willing to bet that your fuckbuddy relationships were smooth sailing, maybe not exciting, but calm, content and peaceful before you ended them.

Furthermore;
Trust issues/fear of abandonment and crap like that is almost always a scapegoat to procrastinate things out. When it legitimately happens, and it's 100% real, then that girl has got shit tons of work to do on her own and isn't someone that you should entangle yourself with (and it will be extremely obvious). But I don't think that's the case here, personal opinion though since I've never met her so take that with a grain of salt

Since then we've been apart for 1.5 months while I was travelling, so let's say we've spent 1.5 months together since sex. Honestly, it's great. First girl in years I could see in my life indefinitely. However, it won't be sustainable if I must be exclusive.

I have a sneaking suspicion you're only saying things like that because of the level of investment she's drawn out of you. So my question is this: who does things for the other person more, you or her?

Who is making plans to meet up more? Who is texting who more? Who texts first more? Who buys things for the other person more? Who initiates sex more? Etc. etc.

Especially considering that you had to go long-term for basically half of the relationship (I don't start counting it as a relationship until sex happens, before then it's a friendship, but different strokes for different folks)

Pretty quickly after first sex she started bringing up a relationship. At first I deflected, but she kept bringing it up. When I eventually gave in to having that conversation, it went something like this (much much abbreviated)

Again, this happened because she was in full control of everything and after she finally gave in she was going to get your commitment before letting you have more. I'm a little surprised she didn't ask for commitment first honestly

She really liked the being boyfriend/girlfriend part, but didn't like the me sleeping with other girls part. She said that's something she couldn't do and if I slept with anyone else it'd end our relationship. No chance of agreement that day, so we agreed to continue the conversation another day. She asked that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her. The insinuation is that she'd end the relationship if I do. Btw she'd told me before she's the jealous type.

That's totally fine for an initial reaction - my approach was to prolong the discussion as much as possible over weeks or months, and let her come to me with time.

Normally that's a good plan, to let her come to you. But that's not what's happening here because letting her come to you implies that you're the one in control. But you'll notice when you think about it that if you were the one in full control then you would have had sex with her a looooooot faster. Women don't make men wait when the man is in control of things

Again, like your fuckbuddy relationships. Try to think about some of the key differences between your fuckbuddies and your girlfriend. I don't mean things like their personality or how hot they are or anything like that. Try to look at the differences in the actual relationship and how much effort you put into those relationships as well as why that difference is there

A few days later she told me me she'd been thinking about it and it's really been bothering her. We discussed it some more. I explained to her how it wouldn't change my feelings for her because men and women are different, evolution, kings have always had many women, etc. No resolution, but more stuff for her to ponder. We talked about it again another day, where we went even deeper and she told me that she's open minded and willing to learn from me, but at the same time can't imagine being with me if I sleep with other girls. Maybe if I'm out of the country for months, but not if it's just a few weeks' vacation and definitely not if I'm in the same city as her. She would feel like she doesn't fulfill me and wouldn't understand why I'm with her. I explained again that men and women are different and while for her as a women that's true, men don't get attached in the same way. She didn't accept it. I told her it's totally fine, I don't want to teach her or convince her or force her to do anything. I know about her abandonment issues and that this is very different from what she's used to, and I just want to fulfill her and maybe she'll feel differently when she feels more and more valued and secure with me. Another day she brought it up. This time she started crying that it's really bothering her and she knows she told me she's open minded and is willing to learn, but she takes it back and she can't do it. I consoled her and we were good for that day. She asked again that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her.

Control tactics

These are going to get worse and worse because once you're in control of a relationship you don't really want to give it up: imagine one of your fuckbuddies suddenly saying that you're going to make her your new girlfriend, drop the current one that we're talking about or she's [fuckbuddy] going to block your number. What would your reaction be?

The reason that I'm asking you this question is because that's more or less what she's experiencing. Although because she views you as someone she could be with long-term she's not completely letting you go, which is the main difference. She's trying to either win you over or beat you down

Meanwhile I haven't been sleeping with other girls, but it's been due to chance. I dropped the fuck buddies I wasn't really into because what's the point when I have her.

That's not due to chance.

I don't mean to be a dick but you are contradicting yourself within two sentences. Not sleeping with other girls due to chance would be because of going on vacation with the boys, or being locked down with work or them all suddenly getting boyfriends and etc. Here you explicitly say that you dropped the fuck buddies. That's not chance, that's choice because you care more about this girl and want to make it work with her so you decided to stop spending energy and time on other girls to make it work with the girlfriend

Which I'm not saying is a bad thing, by the way. If you value this girl more than one-way monogamy then go for it. But that's up to you to decide if that's something that you want or not

I had 1 fuck buddy I would've kept, but shortly after starting to sleep with this girl, the fuck buddy dropped me. Since then I've met more girls, but I'm being very selective and also work has been crazy. So I've brought 2 girls home, but didn't manage to sleep with them.

So, what's my best path forward? I can only delay for so long - at some point she'll ask for a definitive answer. Also at some point I will sleep with someone else, at which point I'd be semi-lying if I didn't tell her since she asked me to.

She's crazy about me and I think she knows she can't replace me, so I have leverage. I'm also crazy about her so I want to find a way to make it work. Is it possible to convince a girl who feels this way?

In my opinion, no it's not. And it's not your job to convince her. It's your job to hang out, have fun and hook up. Relationship stuff is her job. The only relationship related stuff that's your job is to lay out your terms and then negotiate where you feel like you can and that's it

However, this isn't much of a negotiation. She's not having it and you want it. That's not a negotiation, but rather an ultimatum (exclusivity or break-up)

A negotiation would be something like: I'm going to sleep with other girls and then she decides on if she wants to ask for me to follow guidelines about that (some I've heard in the past):
1) condoms with other girls
2) No dates --> although I usually set this one because it sets her mind at ease and it's to keep me from developing feelings as well
3) I want to know about it or I don't want to hear/see anything about it
4) Don't fuck my friends/coworkers
and etc.

Those are examples of negotiations. But because your girlfriend managed to get control of the relationship early on that means she's got the power to set relationship terms. And if she can't then will most likely walk (again, picture one of your fuckbuddies suddenly saying that either you start dating her or she stops seeing you)


So what I'd recommend is to have a deep look at your own life and what you value/want deep down. If it's this girl then great, go with it! If it's one way monogamy then you've got some tough decisions to make

 

[Lover]

You're looking for her approval/acceptance to do what you want. This is not the frame you want to come from. The frame should be that you wanting to keep your sexual options open is not negotiable. You tell her "this is how I am and how it is. I would like if you still want to be a part of my life but I understand if you can't". You must be ready to walk away and end things if she refuses to go along with this.

 

[determined]

Guys, I think that's a misguided view which I see a lot in the community. It comes from scarcity.

Thinking, "I need to act X way in order to maintain control" is not coming from a strong place. It's still fear, fear of losing control. And saying, "This is how I do things, period," is not strength. It's anti-social and people won't want to follow you. Thinking, "I take responsibility as the leader, and I'm allowed to listen and invest and care because I'm secure," is much better.

Not that I have 0 fear - obviously I wouldn't have posted if I didn't care about losing her. But what's the point of being with a girl where you don't care at all? It's just key that she cares at least as much as you. I have no doubt I'm the one up in this relationship.

So I'm looking for advice to maximize my odds here. It's not coming from a place of fear. On the contrary - I think the issue here is she's insecure with me. Also that what I'm asking for is completely different from what she's seen before. My thought process is that my best bet is to make her feel more loved and secure that I'm still crazy about her even if I'm sleeping with other girls.

Who is making plans to meet up more? Who is texting who more? Who texts first more? Who buys things for the other person more? Who initiates sex more? Etc. etc.

She texts me more. She certainly wants to meet up more. She's the one who asks me if I've been thinking about her and that she feels like I've forgotten her. When I want her to change her behavior, I generally win. When she wants me to change my behavior, she generally does not unless I agree with her (she's insightful and points out some good stuff). I'd say we initiate sex more or less equally, as we both have quite high sex drives. I probably do more for her because there's not much she can do for me that I want: I have waaaaaay more money than her and I help her out in that area - to some in the community that may sound like a mortal sin, but to me it's nothing so I'm happy to do it. I do very little else for her. She runs errands for me and does whatever I ask. I don't ask her to do too much because that doesn't do it for me - my love language is physical touch and not acts of service. She tries to do more like cook and clean, but honestly I don't want my girl to cook and clean for me, so I only let her do it sometimes.

To drive this home: I told her in bed one time, "your body is mine" and she responded with "I wouldn't dare saying the same to you."

This is something that if you think about, you'll recognize deep down you've had some thoughts like this as well, noticing things like not quite feeling 100% in control of the relationship and maybe even second guessing yourself

I'm definitely not 100% in control - if I was I would have no interest in this girl. But I'm more in control than her.

Really try to analyze why you dropped your fuckbuddies: was it because you wanted to spend more energy/time/sex with your number 1 girl or was it because the fuckbuddy/ies started causing trouble?

For months before meeting her I had some fuckbuddies I wasn't really into. Not technically a dry spell because I was getting laid, but it was empty sex and not fulfilling. So yeah, I dropped them because I didn't want to see them anymore. Standards have gone up. I'm still meeting new girls. Also, work really has been insane for much of the time we've been together - I even had to drop my hobbies for a while.

I'd be willing to bet that your fuckbuddy relationships were smooth sailing, maybe not exciting, but calm, content and peaceful before you ended them.

Nope. Some of them also wanted more. I just told them no because I didn't care, and some of them dropped me because of it.

women gain value in our eyes the longer they've been in a relationship with us.

True, I like her more the more time we spend together. She likes me more, though.

Trust issues/fear of abandonment and crap like that is almost always a scapegoat to procrastinate things out. When it legitimately happens, and it's 100% real, then that girl has got shit tons of work to do on her own and isn't someone that you should entangle yourself with

Her experiences are real and she's a good girl. Again, I didn't care we were going slow because I was getting laid at the time. Everything I'm doing comes from a place of abundance. I'm abundant enough to be able to prioritize her needs since all my needs are already being met. And she knows that's where I'm coming from. I know a lot of guys in the community would have tried some abrasive ultimatum because they think "If it takes longer than X to sleep with her, you're beta." But that comes from a place of fear. If a girl's not ready to sleep with me, it's not because she's trying to make me beta. It's because she's scared. I'll also mention that I'm pretty sure she slept with me faster than she's slept with any guy in the past. Not sure if that changes your opinion.

Again, this happened because she was in full control of everything and after she finally gave in she was going to get your commitment before letting you have more. I'm a little surprised she didn't ask for commitment first honestly

She knew she wouldn't get it. I was clear that sexual chemistry is one of the most important things in a relationship and I can't even know if we're a good match until we've slept together. Also, I still haven't committed and she keeps giving it to me.

To summarize, I'm looking for advice on how to maximize my odds, if anyone has any experience here. I won't enter into a relationship that won't be sustainable for me. But I'd like to make this work.

 

[TomInHo]

Guys, I think that's a misguided view which I see a lot in the community. It comes from scarcity.

Thinking, "I need to act X way in order to maintain control" is not coming from a strong place. It's still fear, fear of losing control. And saying, "This is how I do things, period," is not strength. It's anti-social and people won't want to follow you. Thinking, "I take responsibility as the leader, and I'm allowed to listen and invest and care because I'm secure," is much better.

No! you're the one with the misguided view because you're submissive in the relationship and don't even realize it. Don't agree? Then lets look at what you said earlier

I met this girl 6 months ago. At first very slowly, and then we started seeing each other more and more. Only 3 months ago did we sleep together for the first time, which was probably like the 10th date or something. Reason it took so long is she had trust issues and fear of abandonment after some bad relationships and was looking for something stable, and I was patient because I was sleeping with other girls.

It took you 3 months to sleep with this girl. You can sugarcoat it all you want but it means that she was in full control of the dynamic while you were waiting patiently for her approval of you

Since then we've been apart for 1.5 months while I was travelling, so let's say we've spent 1.5 months together since sex. Honestly, it's great. First girl in years I could see in my life indefinitely. However, it won't be sustainable if I must be exclusive.

This girl made you wait for sex and you've only been seeing her for 1.5months and you're already talking about having her in your life indefinitely..... What?

You don't even know this girl and you're projecting a life together already? Shouldn't she have to prove to you why she should be in your life forever or is your barrier to entry so low that all she needs to be is sweet and give you sex?

News flash... you can get that anywhere and anytime so there's nothing special there

Pretty quickly after first sex she started bringing up a relationship. At first I deflected, but she kept bringing it up. When I eventually gave in to having that conversation, it went something like this (much much abbreviated)

She really liked the being boyfriend/girlfriend part, but didn't like the me sleeping with other girls part. She said that's something she couldn't do and if I slept with anyone else it'd end our relationship. No chance of agreement that day, so we agreed to continue the conversation another day. She asked that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her. The insinuation is that she'd end the relationship if I do. Btw she'd told me before she's the jealous type.

She's running the frame because she thinks she's higher status than you. Is that a girl you really want to devote yourself too?

That's totally fine for an initial reaction - my approach was to prolong the discussion as much as possible over weeks or months, and let her come to me with time.

Prolong what? Again she should be easily replaceable and if she's not willing to buy into your frame then she's welcome to get lost. That should give you more than enough time to find another sweet and sexual girl that will submit to your protocol

A few days later she told me me she'd been thinking about it and it's really been bothering her. We discussed it some more. I explained to her how it wouldn't change my feelings for her because men and women are different, evolution, kings have always had many women, etc. No resolution, but more stuff for her to ponder. We talked about it again another day, where we went even deeper and she told me that she's open minded and willing to learn from me, but at the same time can't imagine being with me if I sleep with other girls. Maybe if I'm out of the country for months, but not if it's just a few weeks' vacation and definitely not if I'm in the same city as her. She would feel like she doesn't fulfill me and wouldn't understand why I'm with her. I explained again that men and women are different and while for her as a women that's true, men don't get attached in the same way. She didn't accept it. I told her it's totally fine, I don't want to teach her or convince her or force her to do anything. I know about her abandonment issues and that this is very different from what she's used to, and I just want to fulfill her and maybe she'll feel differently when she feels more and more valued and secure with me. Another day she brought it up. This time she started crying that it's really bothering her and she knows she told me she's open minded and is willing to learn, but she takes it back and she can't do it. I consoled her and we were good for that day. She asked again that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her.

Blah blah blah. She's manipulating you to change your script and it seems to be having an effect because...

Meanwhile I haven't been sleeping with other girls, but it's been due to chance. I dropped the fuck buddies I wasn't really into because what's the point when I have her. I had 1 fuck buddy I would've kept, but shortly after starting to sleep with this girl, the fuck buddy dropped me. Since then I've met more girls, but I'm being very selective and also work has been crazy. So I've brought 2 girls home, but didn't manage to sleep with them.

Why did you drop the fuck buddies? That makes zero sense

Didn't you say that you wanted a one sided monogamous relationship with your special girl. Then why are you doing the exact opposite?

If your f-buddies are not up to par, then simply get new women to replace them before you drop them. Because think of it like running a company. If you had 3 people on your sales team with one of them being better than the rest, will you fire the other 2 that are still bringing in revenue before lining up their replacements?

Only a highly emotional business man would make such a risky decision to compromise his empire, all because he found a star employee

She texts me more. She certainly wants to meet up more. She's the one who asks me if I've been thinking about her and that she feels like I've forgotten her. When I want her to change her behavior, I generally win. When she wants me to change my behavior, she generally does not unless I agree with her (she's insightful and points out some good stuff). I'd say we initiate sex more or less equally, as we both have quite high sex drives. I probably do more for her because there's not much she can do for me that I want: I have waaaaaay more money than her and I help her out in that area - to some in the community that may sound like a mortal sin, but to me it's nothing so I'm happy to do it. I do very little else for her. She runs errands for me and does whatever I ask. I don't ask her to do too much because that doesn't do it for me - my love language is physical touch and not acts of service. She tries to do more like cook and clean, but honestly I don't want my girl to cook and clean for me, so I only let her do it sometimes.

To drive this home: I told her in bed one time, "your body is mine" and she responded with "I wouldn't dare saying the same to you."

She sees you as mostly a provider brother

You're trying to rationalize why you should be spending money on her. She's a grown up and she's not even giving you what you fully want so why spend a dime on her?

I have girls that also make waaaaayy less than me and they invest money into me and not the other way around because of the value I bring to their lives beyond the monetary

To summarize, I'm looking for advice on how to maximize my odds, if anyone has any experience here. I won't enter into a relationship that won't be sustainable for me. But I'd like to make this work.

Okay, heres what you should do...

1) Go find other women to fuck immediately and get them in your rotation
2) Ideally go for girls that are equal to higher value than her
3) Cut out all relationship talk and just focus on being a strong man for your women
4) Lower your investment and drive theirs up as high as possible
5) Do not commit to any of them and put them on a probation period of 6-9 months
6) Let them compete with each other to prove to you who should be your main
7) Once one of them seems worthy... that is the time to start laying down ground rules and expectations on how the relationship will run
8) Be willing to walk away if she doesn't agree, and replace her with someone else who will
9) Good Luck

 

[determined]

I like that direction a lot, thank you! Basically to take a step back in the relationship and if she wants to move it forward again she has to agree to my terms. Meanwhile she's the one pushing and investing more.

Idk guys, I'm in this situation and I can say with absolute certainty I'm the higher status one and she knows it. Not sure the other stuff is worth arguing about.

 

[TomInHo]

I like that direction a lot, thank you! Basically to take a step back in the relationship and if she wants to move it forward again she has to agree to my terms. Meanwhile she's the one pushing and investing more.

Idk guys, I'm in this situation and I can say with absolute certainty I'm the higher status one and she knows it. Not sure the other stuff is worth arguing about.

No... If you were in the higher status position she wouldn't dare try to manipulate you by making you feel guilty for being who you are. She'll instead sulk in your absence and put on a sweet act in your presence OR she will try to communicate her needs in a more covert manner...

All because she would be too scared to lose you because she challenged you too strongly...

To drive this home: I told her in bed one time, "your body is mine" and she responded with "I wouldn't dare saying the same to you."

Anything short of her replying "Of course it is daddy" is a sign that she sees you as an equal at best and not her superior. Nothing wrong with that because we've all been there but it definitely means there's way more work to be done before she would submit into a one-sided setup

The sooner you accept your position the quicker you'll be able to turn this around in your favor

PS In case you can't read between the lines, she's probably still fucking other guys or at the very least entertaining the idea

 

[Rakehell]

Idk guys, I'm in this situation and I can say with absolute certainty I'm the higher status one and she knows it. Not sure the other stuff is worth arguing about.

On top of what TominHo said, she essentially gave you an ultimatum in hopes of twisting your arm.

“thats something I can’t do and if you did, that’d end our relationship”

IMO, that’s bullshit and she knows it. The goal shouldn’t be a “one sided” open relationship. It should be a you fucking other girl’s, while fucking her so good, fulfilling her needs, so she only wants you.

If you really want it to be one sided you have to, have to be the only guy she wants. Verbal contracts won’t change that. Your goal shouldn’t be to get her to agree. It should be her natural instinct to want to keep investing despite you seeing other women.

 

[StrayDog]

There does seem to be some cognitive dissonance here. You say you are interested in a one-sided monogamy thing but have chosen a gal to be your main who A: Has been pacing the relationship on her terms, and B: Seems to be entirely uninterested in you seeing other women. She has even told you that she will leave you unless you get with her program. Then you go and drop all of your side chicks. If you want the sort of relationship arrangement you claim to want how come you are not continuing to build your rotation and screening for a main that is more with your program? I am not here to tell you where your perception is not lining up with reality cause you know the scene better than me. I can at least say that it seems like something is not lining up.

I will say this. I have had women that I thought would follow me to the ends of the earth and back turn around and leave. I have been blindsided by my own inability to understand the imbalance in the dynamic playing out. I thought I was leading, and in the end, I was chasing. It is always wise to not be too sure-headed about where you stand with a woman. Remain vigilant and don't take for granted the subtle signals coming through beyond what is seen at face value.

 

[Regal Tiger]

If you don't like my advice you don't have to take it, but my opinion hasn't changed and I don't have high hopes for where your relationship is going

Best of luck though

 

[determined]

Haha I love everyone shooting me down, makes me want to get my relationship terms just to prove everyone wrong.

Regardless, appreciate the input from everyone! Also, super helpful are comments with specific actionable advice. For example, "You're submissive so take the reigns" is kind of hard to do much with, whereas "you're submissive therefore I recommend doing X, Y and Z" is much more helpful. TomInHo's comment was very helpful.

Anything short of her replying "Of course it is daddy" is a sign that she sees you as an equal at best and not her superior

She says that, too

PS In case you can't read between the lines, she's probably still fucking other guys or at the very least entertaining the idea

No, she goes out of her way to tell me she's not, and how guys hit on her all the time, but she turns them down because she only wants me

IMO, that’s bullshit and she knows it.

You might be right. I'd give it 50/50 that if I told her "this is the way it is" with some empathy she will accept it. Just wondering if I can get the odds higher.

Then you go and drop all of your side chicks. If you want the sort of relationship arrangement you claim to want how come you are not continuing to build your rotation and screening for a main that is more with your program

Just to clarify, I dropped the ones I wasn't into before she asked. Then the only side chick I meant to keep dropped me. Didn't plan on that happening. Anyways, I'm still actively dating and it's just a matter of time till I find more. It's just a balancing act with work and being selective because I wouldn't be interested unless they're at least close to her level. But I've by no means stopped meeting girls and I told her I don't want to commit - we just haven't reached closure because I prefer to tell her, "no worries if it seems crazy to you. You don't have to have make a decision right now" rather than "This is the way it is. If you don't like it, goodbye."

 

[TomInHo]

Haha I love everyone shooting me down, makes me want to get my relationship terms just to prove everyone wrong.

Always happy to share a different perspective but do it for yourself, rather than trying to impress strangers on the internet

You might be right. I'd give it 50/50 that if I told her "this is the way it is" with some empathy she will accept it. Just wondering if I can get the odds higher.

Also, I'm extremely curios.. Why is it so important to you that this girl is monogamous to you, but you are not to her?

But I've by no means stopped meeting girls and I told her I don't want to commit -

Good that you're still out there dating

we just haven't reached closure because I prefer to tell her, "no worries if it seems crazy to you. You don't have to have make a decision right now" rather than "This is the way it is. If you don't like it, goodbye."

Honestly, you shouldn't have to tell her anything. Women are not dumb and they can tell when you're seeing other girls. But your wording is very confusing.

If you go with... "no worries if it seems crazy to you. You don't have to have make a decision right now" how would you respond if she fucks another guy during your "you don't have to make a decision right now" ?

If you say you would dump her then it means you didn't have much empathy now would it?

Because if you're going to set a boundary... then set it. Stop with all the wish washy nice guy BS because it will only make you look weaker in her eyes

I really recommend you take a step back and demote her to something more flexible until you know exactly what you want from her, beyond a relationship label

 

[StrayDog]

we just haven't reached closure because I prefer to tell her, "no worries if it seems crazy to you. You don't have to have make a decision right now" rather than "This is the way it is. If you don't like it, goodbye."

But isn't "This is the way it is. If you don't like it, goodbye." ultimately the truth of the matter? Or are your convictions towards your desire to have a one-sided monogamous relationship negotiable? I understand that you are aiming to ease her into the idea but if your desire for that sort of arrangement is an unwavering truth wouldn't it make more sense that she has to accept that about you and decide how she is going to move forward in order to be with you?

Honestly, I personally would not be considering someone as a main, who isn't already down with the non-negoitables of my life. "easing her into the idea" like you have been doing, only really indicates to her that this is a negotiable aspect of your life. Hence her trying to negotiate a whole other grounds for the relationship (monogamy). Also, I tend to see easing someone into a fundamental aspect of ourselves as a form of chasing. It's like, what is the point of aiming to convince someone of this part of myself when there are many other candidates that are just as compelling, who will readily accept this part of me? That's like women I have had (the moment things started to get more serious) who tried to get me to pursue a more stable career than my career as an artist. I am not going to ease a woman into this part of my life. Either she is about it or she is not. If she is not, she is best to find a way to be supportive of it asap if she wants to hang onto what we have, and I am not going to hold her hand while she baby steps her way towards accepting who I am.

If you set a precedent that says that this is negotiable then you can count on her continually testing your frame on it as the relationship continues. She needs to learn sooner than later that you are not going to budge. Unless of course you really are open to monogomy. In which case, go ahead and play that game. She can try to ease you into monogamy and you can try to ease her into a one-sided non-monogamous relationship.

 

[Rakehell]

You might be right. I'd give it 50/50 that if I told her "this is the way it is" with some empathy she will accept it. Just wondering if I can get the odds higher.

I mean if your intention was to be more suavé about the proposition then yeah it doesn’t hurt to be more persuasive with the language.

Her: i’m looking for something more long term

Me: I don’t think I was put here to be in a relationship, I mean yeah, there’ve been times where I thought about a girl and was like, Damn, if I was any other guy I probably would’ve married her, but I know deep down stuff like that isn’t in the cards for me, so I wouldn’t even wanna get her hopes up like that, mine or hers

This is a long winded way of saying your terms but she’ll know exactly what it means…..you’re making the same pill easier to swallow. Lubing the throat.

But at the same time you never wanna emphasize how you don’t want her seeing anyone else because now you’re giving her ways to control you, if you’re a jealous man, she’ll make you jealous on purpose. Because her mission from that point on is gonna be “how can I change this guy’s mind about settling down, *lightbulb* he’s jealous so i’ll talk to other guy’s”

The probablities of her going along with anything all fall on you as a person as a whole, not your strategy.

 

[StrayDog]

No, she goes out of her way to tell me she's not, and how guys hit on her all the time, but she turns them down because she only wants me

Whenever a woman tells me how many guys she has pursuing her, I tend to take it as her way of telling me I am replaceable. Even if she frames it in a way that says she is turning them down because she likes me so much. It's like she is subtly telling me that she is questioning her decision to turn them down to be with me. Otherwise, why bring those fools up at all? Seems like if she is all about me, her turning those dudes down to be with me should go without saying.

 

[determined]

Also, I'm extremely curios.. Why is it so important to you that this girl is monogamous to you, but you are not to her?

Oh, I'm not trying to pin her down. I realize the way I worded the title of this post, it sounds like it. She's trying to pin me down.

I'm perfectly happy leaving things undefined. She keeps bringing it up, though, and I'm not sure how best to navigate that. She kept bringing up being my girlfriend and I deflected for a while. But she kept bringing it up, so I told her, "Look. I'm actually fine with making this more official because you're special bla bla. However, my one hesitation is giving up my freedom because I want this to be sustainable." She didn't like the idea of me continuing to sleep with other girls, and we haven't yet been able to resolve it. She keeps bringing it up, and she has ups and downs because I won't give it to her.

So, if there's a way I could keep things less defined, that'd be perfect.

Otherwise, I'm happy to give her a relationship, but only if I can still have side chicks.

I see people's point that I could be more in control. While I'm the dominant one and know she'll follow me to a point, I'm not confident enough in her reaction in this scenario which means I could have more control.

I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to keep her around without committing. I know she's crazy about me and believe she'd be happier with me in any capacity than without me. But I'm seeing her mood swings about my unwillingness to commit and I'm not sure how she'd react since I haven't been here before.

 

[determined]

Otherwise why bring those fools up at all?

She's trying to make me jealous because she feels like she can't control me.

 

[StrayDog]

Oh, I'm not trying to pin her down. I realize the way I worded the title of this post, it sounds like it. She's trying to pin me down.

I'm perfectly happy leaving things undefined. She keeps bringing it up, though, and I'm not sure how best to navigate that. She kept bringing up being my girlfriend and I deflected for a while. But she kept bringing it up, so I told her, "Look. I'm actually fine with making this more official because you're special bla bla. However, my one hesitation is giving up my freedom because I want this to be sustainable." She didn't like the idea of me continuing to sleep with other girls, and we haven't yet been able to resolve it. She keeps bringing it up, and she has ups and downs because I won't give it to her.

So, if there's a way I could keep things less defined, that'd be perfect.

Otherwise, I'm happy to give her a relationship, but only if I can still have side chicks.

I see people's point that I could be more in control. While I'm the dominant one and know she'll follow me to a point, I'm not confident enough in her reaction in this scenario which means I could have more control.

I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to keep her around without committing. I know she's crazy about me and believe she'd be happier with me in any capacity than without me. But I'm seeing her mood swings about my unwillingness to commit and I'm not sure how she'd react since I haven't been here before.

I see what you are saying about her being the one trying to lock it down. She is the one pursuing you, ultimately. Or so it would seem. Although, the history of you pursuing her for a period of months before sex occurred (am I correct here? Has she been the one pursuing you the whole time, or only after you two had sex?) adds another complex layer to the dynamic.

The thing that to me is adding up the least is; that if you are certain that you want a one-sided non-exclusive relationship, why are you weighing her so heavily as a candidate, given the fact that she continually expresses that she wants monogamy from you? Is it that she, at the moment, is the only one pursuing you for a more serious relationship? What about her proposition is so compelling? Especially in light of the fact that your primary relationship objective is a one-sided non-exclusive one. What clear benefits to you see to having her as a partner? Especially in light of the fact that she seems to be pushing for monogamy. Is it possible that there is a more egoic motivation than you just wanting to build a solid partnership with her? You mentioned that you are happy with just having things undefined. Is it possible that you just don't want to lose her from the rotation? Or are you worried that you are losing out on something that is potentially really good, thus second-guessing your choice for non-exclusivity?

All I am saying is something doesn't quite add up. I am just asking questions cause I think the sooner you are clear about exactly what your motivations are here, the sooner you can have clarity on how to proceed.

 

[Lover]

I see people's point that I could be more in control. While I'm the dominant one and know she'll follow me to a point, I'm not confident enough in her reaction in this scenario which means I could have more control.

I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to keep her around without committing. I know she's crazy about me and believe she'd be happier with me in any capacity than without me. But I'm seeing her mood swings about my unwillingness to commit and I'm not sure how she'd react since I haven't been here before.

Mindset:
You are avoiding an ultimatum because you care about whether she leaves or not. Why does that matter though? You must be ready to walk away yourself when shit like this happens and you don't end up in a relationship where you compromise on things you shouldn't.

Technique:
It's not one bit abrasive if you tactfully make her understand you need this like you need oxygen. She has to understand this is not something you can compromise on.

But I'm not saying you should not make her somewhat comfortable going into a relationship with you under these circumstances. You have to figure out what her deal is to make her comfortable doing thus with you.

Why exactly does this bother her? Specifics. Not something wishy-washy and vague.

How does it make her feel to know that you have to do this like your life is depending on it?

Depending on her answers: what does she need to be comfortable with this setup? Discretion about the setup to your friends and families? That she knows everything or nothing about the girls you meet? That you only meet girls a certain distance away? Are close friends no-go? Is falling in love with other girls okay?

Notice how you are not compromising on the fact that you will be meeting girls - but she may have some wishes as to how you are running things if she accepts it. There is a high probability she wants to keep this a secret for the sake of image, and that she wants to feel safe going into this.

So yeah, try it... tell her you need couple of minutes to express your side of things, and then ask her what she needs to feel comfortable being in this

 

[James Cruse]

I met this girl 6 months ago. At first very slowly, and then we started seeing each other more and more. Only 3 months ago did we sleep together for the first time, which was probably like the 10th date or something. Reason it took so long is she had trust issues and fear of abandonment after some bad relationships and was looking for something stable, and I was patient because I was sleeping with other girls.

You should know better than this from being on these forums.
This is a total lie. It’s such an over-used trope now that I wouldn’t think anyone would believe this around here.
I’ve had girls say this to me and it’s ALWAYS a lie. Many women play the ‘damsel in distress’ to control you or your relationship with them, it’s basic female nature. Don’t believe it.

She has definately been fucked on the first danight by one or more guys since whatever “trauma” event she’s referring to, if there even was one.
Which means she views you as the (lower value simp) guy because you waited.

NEVER wait more than 4 dates for any woman, no matter what they say, if you do - they penalise you for it, just as you are being penalised now.

To be honest, I would either leave her or have sex with other girls and enjoy yourself. I wouldn’t rub it in her face, be cool and discreet.
Two things will happen:
1. She’ll either leave you (who cares - she’s in control of your relatioship now anyway due to your mistakes)
OR
2. She stays with you, she lets you fuck other girls and you become more attractive & higher value in her eyes because:
*you have other options,
*you won’t take any of her bs (because of those other options) & she knows you can leave her for any bad behaviour which I bet is rife throughour your relationship now
*she’ll have competition anxiety (increases her attraction to you)
*and you’ll regain some of the ground you lost from being a simp at the start of the relationship.

I think you need to realise that just because a girl SAYS she’ll be bothered by something, that doesn’t mean it won’t benefit you.
Yeah, of course she’ be bothered and anxious if you fuck other girls - if she stays and doesn’t fuck other guys - that means you now have all or most of the power in the relationship. Of course that would bother her.
Ultimately though, women want to be with men that have all the power in relationships, they dream about it.
You need to lead this relationship and lead her where you want them to go.
If that’s fucking other girls then coming home to her, so bit for her - she can like it or lump it.