FR++ Girl seducing me??? ethical dilemma...

[Motiv]

Greetings GC!

As some of you may know, I have been in a relationship running on 10 months now, and I have managed to keep things running smooth in large part thanks to the orgasmic sex I have learned to provide from GC. The down side is that I stopped practicing seduction in all that time, but I have not stopped exercising certain aspects of it: eye contact flirting, fashion upgrades, and physique development. Long story short is I enjoy milking the positive attention I get from attractive young women on a daily basis.

About one month ago, a new girl moved into my building who's apartment window actually faces mine. I live on the inside of the U-shape part of the building. I found her strikingly attractive (slender Mongolian girl... a true Asian beauty), and she must have found me the same, as I would catch her checking me out quite often through our windows. I did my best to not be creepy, but she did catch me a a few of times checking her out too. Long story short, we met up yesterday in the elevator for the first time, and we exchanged names and phone numbers almost immediately. She quite forwardly offered to watch my cats when I am away (she's keeping tabs on when my apartment is empty at night... nights I am at my girlfriend's place).

We end up exchanging cute text messages as we now overtly wave to one another through our windows later on that day, and she tells me she would love to meet my cats at some point. I take a cute picture of my cats laying together, and tell her they would love to meet her too.. "they want to know if she might be free at all next week?" She replies, "tell them I might be free next week "

I wait to respond to that text until today, and we have exchange a little more dialogue about ourselves, which ends with her wishing me to have a good concert tonight. Then she drops this bomb, just minutes after stepping into my place after the concert, "Do you think you can open a bottle of wine for me if I bring it?"

...

Holy shit, I think to myself... is this beautiful girl actually making sex that easy??? I haven't had any woman other than my current gf in my place since January of this year, so I was more than excited to take the reins, especially with a girl who apparently needed it this badly. So I respond, "Lucky you, I just got home! Sure, come on over--I'm 617 " "Ok be there in 10 min," she says.

Now I'm frantically scrubbing my toilet and throwing my bed together, trying to put my place in some kind of decent shape. Once she arrives, I almost cant believe how confident I feel interacting with her. I quickly initiate light elbow touching, and I open the wine. We talk in my kitchen for a little, but I am ever conscious of the 10 minute rule for a kiss. I motion her to sit on my bed (the only place to sit in my studio), and she easily agrees. Some light conversation and steadily escalated touching (hand on shoulder, then upper back, then small of her back), and I manage a kiss around 15 minutes in. She is hesitant the first few seconds, but eventually, it's tongue action and she's really getting into it. Then she pulls away and slowly begins to cry about how she wishes things could go better with her ex of two years--with whom from she is taking a break at the moment. She apologizes for leading me on, and I respond with the most genuine, loving touch I can (arm around her shoulder and other hand on her other arm). I do my best to listen, and eventually get around to telling her I think she deserves to feel good and be happy, and I go in for another kiss. This time, she is even more passionate than before, and I gradually lay her down on the bed, stretching her arms out and moving her body into a better position. Then, one of my cats jumps up on the bed, and she starts to freak out again over her ex-boyfriend. She again apologizes for letting things go this far and tells me she had no intention of the evening being sexual.

I finally decide to leave well enough alone, and we chat for the next half hour or so. She ends up telling me that she has a hard time trusting men since her biological dad left the family just after she was born, and her step dad treats her and her mom quite badly. Was my sexiness way off? Or was this just a troubled girl who would have freaked out on anyone?

The irony for me is that, once my gf calls (literally minutes after this girl leaves), I feel so pumped from the high of the make-out that just happened that I end up having one of the best conversations with my gf that we've ever had. After hanging up with the gf, she texts me, "It was a great way to end my day talking to you tonight, Xo"

I was so ready to cheat on my girlfriend, and in a certain way, I already did. Yet... the high from that make-out and near-sex gave me a confidence boost I have not felt in a very long time. My gf ended up telling me that I was especially inspirational tonight. Am I fucked up or what?

I apologize for the sloppiness of this post (I usually re-read and edit my posts for hours before submitting them), but I just wanted to get this down as quickly as possible while it was still fresh. Thank you in advance for any replies.

-MP

 

[Rage]

Re: FR+/LMR: Girl seducing me??? ethical dilemma...

Hey machine player,

Now I'm frantically scrubbing my toilet and throwing my bed together, trying to put my place in some kind of decent shape. Once she arrives, I almost cant believe how confident I feel interacting with her. I quickly initiate light elbow touching, and I open the wine. We talk in my kitchen for a little, but I am ever conscious of the 10 minute rule for a kiss. I motion her to sit on my bed (the only place to sit in my studio), and she easily agrees. Some light conversation and steadily escalated touching (hand on shoulder, then upper back, then small of her back), and I manage a kiss around 15 minutes in. She is hesitant the first few seconds, but eventually, it's tongue action and she's really getting into it. Then she pulls away and slowly begins to cry about how she wishes things could go better with her ex of two years--with whom from she is taking a break at the moment. She apologizes for leading me on, and I respond with the most genuine, loving touch I can (arm around her shoulder and other hand on her other arm). I do my best to listen, and eventually get around to telling her I think she deserves to feel good and be happy, and I go in for another kiss. This time, she is even more passionate than before, and I gradually lay her down on the bed, stretching her arms out and moving her body into a better position. Then, one of my cats jumps up on the bed, and she starts to freak out again over her ex-boyfriend. She again apologizes for letting things go this far and tells me she had no intention of the evening being sexual.

You did a great job handling her reservations while not being a "nice guy" to her (i.e. girl feels emotionally upset and you're there for her and comfort her but in a smooth, masculine way different from what a white knight would do). You also did a good thing in not mentioning "oh don't feel bad/I have a girlfriend too/I shouldn't be doing this either" ... anything along those lines, was good that you avoided doing any of that.

I finally decide to leave well enough alone, and we chat for the next half hour or so. She ends up telling me that she has a hard time trusting men since her biological dad left the family just after she was born, and her step dad treats her and her mom quite badly. Was my sexiness way off? Or was this just a troubled girl who would have freaked out on anyone?

Your sexiness wasn't off, the girl's just had troubles and has reservations and lingering ill-feelings from them. The girls you're supposed to avoid are https://www.girlschase.com/content/spott ... er-b-women but this girl doesn't seem like one of them. A girlfriend I had a couple of years ago, was this way our first time together and I was worried about it a bit then (she had many other brothers and sisters who she supported as the oldest and had an elderly mother she supported too who was sickly, and did this with full time work and school ... and alongside that just got off of a 4 year relationship and I was her first anything coming away from that). I handled that smoothly back then (was lucky to, hadn't come across something like that back then) and was there for her but not white knighting... and later on we had our relationship and it was fulfilling, enjoyable and drama-free (so despite her troubles she was a healthy minded girl and quite strong too emotionally... just had happened to catch her at a tough stage).

The irony for me is that, once my gf calls (literally minutes after this girl leaves), I feel so pumped from the high of the make-out that just happened that I end up having one of the best conversations with my gf that we've ever had. After hanging up with the gf, she texts me, "It was a great way to end my day talking to you tonight, Xo"

I was so ready to cheat on my girlfriend, and in a certain way, I already did. Yet... the high from that make-out and near-sex gave me a confidence boost I have not felt in a very long time. My gf ended up telling me that I was especially inspirational tonight. Am I fucked up or what?

We're by nature gonna go for multiple women; a lot of advanced guys (Chase has suggested this a few times I believe) have had fulfilling, out of this world relationships with women while sleeping with other women on the side (and often with their partner's consent too). I guess some guys would tell their partner and others wouldn't (I've seen a really skilled natural friend of mine just fuck other girls and be loyal and the best boyfriend to his girl at the same time, doesn't seem sleazy how he does it, however he chooses not to tell her... so I guess those natural guys have a choice with that it seems).

I'd also say, know that your guilt is self inflicted feeling. Guilt is a concept more than a feeling (I believe at least) and you can choose to feel guilty about what you do. See and work with the situation as you wish to and on your terms (kind of shitty phrasing sorry haha; but I mean that if you feel comfortable having you girlfriend and sleeping with other women too than go for it, if within you it feels right to do it I'd say go for it then).

And if you do decide to progress with this girl/keep seeing this girl (this is something that I don't have personal experience with, but remember Chase or Franco talking about somewhere on here) when a girl's in your building and you may see her intimately/hook up with her: you have to be careful about how you go about that in setting the precedent and expectations. This would entail not seeing her too often (I would presume; not any more than you would any other girl you'd casually be seeing) and making it clear to her that you want to see her casually from the beginning and not looking for a relationship.

 

[Motiv]

Re: FR+/LMR: Girl seducing me??? ethical dilemma...

Hey machine player,

You did a great job handling her reservations while not being a "nice guy" to her (i.e. girl feels emotionally upset and you're there for her and comfort her but in a smooth, masculine way different from what a white knight would do). You also did a good thing in not mentioning "oh don't feel bad/I have a girlfriend too/I shouldn't be doing this either" ... anything along those lines, was good that you avoided doing any of that.

I appreciate your response, Gem—many thanks! As I keep thinking about what happened that night, I do have to admit I think I put out too much of a boyfriend vibe during our initial conversation. After all, I have only been with one girl the last ten months, albeit with frequent, powerful sex, but totally monogamous. I knew I had to avoid white knighting myself at all costs, but I think that's where it gets a little tricky to avoid creepiness when you're a less experienced guy. I did my best to console her through a lot of soft, physical contact and stoic, masculine presence, but if the girl isn't completely convinced she will have a no-strings-attached, dynamite night in bed with you, that last minute resistance can crop up anyway. A few better-coordinated logistics (i.e. cats put away, less talking about myself, and an earlier first kiss) and I really think sex would have happened. Even still, for me this was probably a giant leap forward from the vibe I used to put out a year ago, coming off fifteen years of celibacy (back then, I'm sure the texting would never have lead to a self-invite from her).

Your sexiness wasn't off, the girl's just had troubles and has reservations and lingering ill-feelings from them. The girls you're supposed to avoid are https://www.girlschase.com/content/spott ... er-b-women but this girl doesn't seem like one of them. A girlfriend I had a couple of years ago, was this way our first time together and I was worried about it a bit then (she had many other brothers and sisters who she supported as the oldest and had an elderly mother she supported too who was sickly, and did this with full time work and school ... and alongside that just got off of a 4 year relationship and I was her first anything coming away from that). I handled that smoothly back then (was lucky to, hadn't come across something like that back then) and was there for her but not white knighting... and later on we had our relationship and it was fulfilling, enjoyable and drama-free (so despite her troubles she was a healthy minded girl and quite strong too emotionally... just had happened to catch her at a tough stage).

I'm glad you shared your own anecdote here because I think it shows a good example of how it's totally possible to support a woman as a sexy, masculine man, contrary to how most men think they have to hide their sexuality in order to support a woman emotionally. We need to visualize ourselves as givers of sexual pleasure rather than seekers. Obviously, we are seeking too, and that's what makes this vibe tough to pull off. We are seeking to please and live vicariously through the orgasms we induce. I feel certain that girl came to see me with a bottle of wine anticipating a night of sexual passion with the random, sexy stranger she met through her window... until she got to know him well enough to realize he was a little too tender to just sleep with and then leave. She told me as much, "I don't think I can just sleep with you and then go home. I couldn't do that to you." I might also mention that she is fifteen years younger than me (she's only 20-21), and I mistakenly let her catch wind of my age, so I have to chalk this one up to my inexperience (although this was a seduction thrown in my lap through little control of my own...)

We're by nature gonna go for multiple women; a lot of advanced guys (Chase has suggested this a few times I believe) have had fulfilling, out of this world relationships with women while sleeping with other women on the side (and often with their partner's consent too). I guess some guys would tell their partner and others wouldn't (I've seen a really skilled natural friend of mine just fuck other girls and be loyal and the best boyfriend to his girl at the same time, doesn't seem sleazy how he does it, however he chooses not to tell her... so I guess those natural guys have a choice with that it seems).

I'd also say, know that your guilt is self inflicted feeling. Guilt is a concept more than a feeling (I believe at least) and you can choose to feel guilty about what you do. See and work with the situation as you wish to and on your terms (kind of shitty phrasing sorry haha; but I mean that if you feel comfortable having you girlfriend and sleeping with other women too than go for it, if within you it feels right to do it I'd say go for it then).

I believe you are spot on about us men naturally going for multiple women. Honestly, I've only kept myself celibate for fifteen years because I have always been attracted to multiple women and thought that made me evil. Now that I consider myself over that, I believe that all of what did transpire between me and this girl was absolutely worth it—I haven't felt more alive than the first night I had sex with my girlfriend ten months ago! In fact, I am writing this response right now as I sit in her house while she cooks me dinner (she thinks I am working on a job application). Am I a sleaze ball? Probably by some people's definition, but so far everyone is happy.

On the notion of choosing guilt, I think there's a deeper issue: I don't have to feel guilty for messing around with other girls, but I should consider revealing this to my girlfriend (especially when she asks me if I'm being faithful). I have to admit that embracing deception seems to give me more power to excite, inspire, and turn women on (present girlfriend included). On the other hand, maybe what I perceive as deception is actually the means to unlocking my mind from the stark, limited world view formed by my previous life experience. I genuinely want to inspire as many women as possible with my charisma and zest for life, and I want to give them a sexual experience most men don't dare—not afraid to play with fire anymore. I just hope I don't become a monster.

In all honesty, I know I may be opening myself to judgement from this board, but I will state forwardly that I now believe a little "dark side" is necessary to live life to the fullest... and do ultimate good.

And if you do decide to progress with this girl/keep seeing this girl (this is something that I don't have personal experience with, but remember Chase or Franco talking about somewhere on here) when a girl's in your building and you may see her intimately/hook up with her: you have to be careful about how you go about that in setting the precedent and expectations. This would entail not seeing her too often (I would presume; not any more than you would any other girl you'd casually be seeing) and making it clear to her that you want to see her casually from the beginning and not looking for a relationship.

I do appreciate the heads up! So far, the one other girl I have slept with in my building (who lives on the same floor as me) always looks happy to see me—could probably even go in for another tap with her... I honestly wouldn't mind a little more drama in my life.

Cheers!

-MP

 

[Rage]

Re: FR+/LMR: Girl seducing me??? ethical dilemma...

MP,

Bit of a late reply by me, but glad I was able to help out a bit!

I appreciate your response, Gem—many thanks! As I keep thinking about what happened that night, I do have to admit I think I put out too much of a boyfriend vibe during our initial conversation. After all, I have only been with one girl the last ten months, albeit with frequent, powerful sex, but totally monogamous. I knew I had to avoid white knighting myself at all costs, but I think that's where it gets a little tricky to avoid creepiness when you're a less experienced guy. I did my best to console her through a lot of soft, physical contact and stoic, masculine presence, but if the girl isn't completely convinced she will have a no-strings-attached, dynamite night in bed with you, that last minute resistance can crop up anyway. A few better-coordinated logistics (i.e. cats put away, less talking about myself, and an earlier first kiss) and I really think sex would have happened. Even still, for me this was probably a giant leap forward from the vibe I used to put out a year ago, coming off fifteen years of celibacy (back then, I'm sure the texting would never have lead to a self-invite from her).

From what I understand; a lot of the elite tier 4 guys on the boards had originally came out of a long term relationship (where they had banged a lot and had it been good and stuff) and then came out and worked to get good with girls.

Being in a fulfilling relationship where you’re a dominant man and know that this girl is irresistibly madly into you and probably won’t find another guy who can give her what you do in her lifetime (unfortunate for her but statistically realistic) sort of keeps you used to being a dominant masculine man who knows what he wants in life and inw omen and goes out and seeks it in the world. I think because of that, coming out of a relationship lets you cut your learning curve significantly and get good faster than guys who hadn’t been in relationship beforehand (the kind of relationship that you had first been in); lets you get better more rapidly despite having missed time meeting new women.

We need to visualize ourselves as givers of sexual pleasure rather than seekers. Obviously, we are seeking too, and that's what makes this vibe tough to pull off. We are seeking to please and live vicariously through the orgasms we induce.

Yes, well said! I’m a believer of that as well: seeking to give rather than get (and by default in that process often getting a lot more than you ever had or could have wished for).

I believe you are spot on about us men naturally going for multiple women. Honestly, I've only kept myself celibate for fifteen years because I have always been attracted to multiple women and thought that made me evil. Now that I consider myself over that, I believe that all of what did transpire between me and this girl was absolutely worth it—I haven't felt more alive than the first night I had sex with my girlfriend ten months ago! In fact, I am writing this response right now as I sit in her house while she cooks me dinner (she thinks I am working on a job application). Am I a sleaze ball? Probably by some people's definition, but so far everyone is happy.

That’s quite a story MP (being celibate for 15 years). And wonderful that you did find a great girl like that. I’ve had religious ponderings myself as well lately… like you and like Chase, I was quite religious growing up and liked it that way. But I grew older and more rationalizing and not so quick to accept things as how they should be done… that and I was always a horndog since I was very little and girls was the only part of my faith that I didn’t like (why shouldn’t I be able to have sex before marriage, why is it wrong to do something that feels so right to my body and to my inner nature etc. dissonant questions like that cropping up in my mind).

On the notion of choosing guilt, I think there's a deeper issue: I don't have to feel guilty for messing around with other girls, but I should consider revealing this to my girlfriend (especially when she asks me if I'm being faithful). I have to admit that embracing deception seems to give me more power to excite, inspire, and turn women on (present girlfriend included). On the other hand, maybe what I perceive as deception is actually the means to unlocking my mind from the stark, limited world view formed by my previous life experience. I genuinely want to inspire as many women as possible with my charisma and zest for life, and I want to give them a sexual experience most men don't dare—not afraid to play with fire anymore. I just hope I don't become a monster.



In all honesty, I know I may be opening myself to judgement from this board, but I will state forwardly that I now believe a little "dark side" is necessary to live life to the fullest... and do ultimate good.

I would consider telling a girlfriend myself (if I chose to not be exclusive to her) and yeah it probably differs case by case basis what one guy chooses to do vs. what another guy chooses to do. I had 2 LTR’s and in both I was exclusive to the girl, but then it was more out of convenience and skill level being lower than out of pure devotion and unwillingless to give in to temptations to do anything with other women.

If you were to go and talk to your girlfriend about this I’d recommend asking Chase and seeing what he says about how to do this properly and stuff, and not hurt a girl while set terms of a relationship in the way you want to.

I wouldn’t know how to do that it’d be tough and tricky and if I really liked a girl I wouldn’t want to spoil what I had with her either. This’ll be a future problem for me I’m sure; but yeah I’d ask Chase (or another tier 4 guy with experience here) on how to have a serious girlfriend while seeing other girls too, with her consent.

Good luck MP

-Gem