Break Ups Girlfriend called time on a short relationship due to anxiety and pressure she seems to be putting on herself about incompatibility

[slashrfnr]

Not sure how this will go down here as most of the people that got into this because they wanted to get better with girls to get a girlfriend probably don’t stick around here, but figured some people may have experience to share. Apologies for the wall text, I have spent about an hour trying to make it as short as possible.

TL;DR Girlfriend called time on a short relationship due to anxiety and pressure she seems to be putting on herself about incompatibility. Would be keen for advise on how to reverse this.

- Have been dating a 32 year old South African girl for the last 3 months. Things seemed to be going very well, and for me, of all the girls I’ve dated over the past 6 years, it never felt so natural or easy. She seemed to be quite into me, inviting me to join her on holiday after 2 months of dating.

- Early on, she told me she had a trip booked to visit her brother for a month in October, and then would be going back to South Africa mid-December for 1 month/6 weeks. When we discussed it about 6 weeks in, I said it was not ideal but I could hardly be annoyed with her for trips she had booked before we started dating. I said if we continued seeing each other, we should try and make the most of the time when were in the same country.

- We had a conversation a couple of weeks ago, that was genesis for the argument that led to breaking up – essentially she raised the point that she knew I didn’t love her working hours - she has repeatedly said it’s a shame how unusually busy she has been at work recently, especially when she has had to cancel our plans. I addressed it there and then and just said that it’s a bit shit when she has to leave early, I understood why she has to.

-Anyway, the break up happened after our date last Friday. Pretty confident she hadn’t planned to break up that night, because she was trying to get her friends to come out to meet me, and also rejecting other plans so she could see me on the Sunday, which aren’t the actions of someone planning to break up. Anyway, she got a bit drunk and then had an outburst. There was some non-sensical stuff about me being angry that she hadn’t booked her return from South Africa in January, but the crux seemed to be her being anxious, busy with work, and putting pressure on herself about disappointing me (she did say I had never done anything to put pressure on her), and the conversation we had a week earlier had been weighing on her mind.

- It was an outburst, and I probably should have just left then and said we should talk properly later. She didn't immediately suggest breaking up, but she was struggling with how to feel less pressure, and we couldn’t work out what to do other than break up. I left after that as I had to get up early for a stag do the next day. I figured it was a drunken argument and a bit hasty, so decided to give her space on Saturday, and then Sunday morning I suggested we talk with clearer heads. She agreed, but I could tell her mind was made up.

- She said she is coming up to 33, wants this relationship to be her last and she is worried about what she sees as incompatibilities (put those in the box below, but this is already a wall of text, so hid it in a spoiler) even though I tried assuring her that they aren't big issues. She said if she is having these doubts now its fairer on me to call it off now given she is only in the country for 4 weeks over next 3 months, rather than these doubts manifest when she is back in January and have wasted my time. Her words were that its an issue of timing, there was nothing wrong with the relationship and if she wasn’t going to be away for a month now, and a month in mid-December, we wouldn’t be breaking up as we would have more time to test the relationship.

Spoiler: Her doubts about compatibility and where they may come from

I’m not entirely sure where the pressure she places on herself not to disappoint me comes from. I’ve obviously been disappointed when she has had to cancel plans to do work, and I have told her she works too hard sometimes, but I’ve never really kicked off about it. I think she has overthought things I’ve said, like me saying it was sensible to make the most of the time together while she was in the country was me being annoyed at her for going away. Or the fact that I said I had more time on my hands now that I wasn’t going on dates anymore, she took as pressure for her to fill that time- even though she knows I spend a lot of my spare time practising my musical instruments, playing tennis, and seeing my friends.

Despite previously being of the opinion that we had similar values, she seemed to think there was a major problem because we had a conversation where I said given the hypothetical choice, I would prefer to be able to take my kids on holiday each year over sending them to Private school. Ultimately, she thought we would disagree how to spend money and one of us would always have to compromise. This wasn’t bought up on Friday, so I think this was her rationalising things on Saturday.

-It seemed like a lot of this was in her head, and if we actually sat down properly to really address concerns we may reach a different conclusion. However, I figured there was no point trying to talk her out of it now as she would still feel the pressure while away, and figured the best thing would be to give her space. I didn’t beg/plead, or chase her, so I just said that while I’m not going to wait around for her, if her mind changes after she comes back from America, or South Africa, to get back in contact, as I felt we had a good thing going.

I did read Chase's How to get your girlfriend back: 3 strategies, but didn't think this situation fitted neatly into the three categories

If she just wasn't attracted to me, I'd be OK and accept it, but I’m reluctant to let go of something where I felt there was a lot of potential, especially based on events in her life making her feel pressured, anxious and caused her to overthink and make a hasty decision. I’m also not keen on passively waiting for her to reach out because she has probably rationalised it all in her head, as I pretty much did on Saturday morning after the first argument.

I’m going to start dating again, but I wanted peoples opinion on whether :

1. Try and meet up with her when she gets back from the States so that with the benefit of time and space, we can actually discuss her concerns
2. See where I am in January after she comes back from South Africa, when the immediate pressure of her being away will be gone.

I will of course wait to see if she reaches out to me first. I’m leaning towards option 1, but thought I would get second opinions, as I've not sure what the right length of no contact is. Will appreciate all thoughts even if I don't want to hear them.

I’m going to get ahead of some responses that I know will come, as well meaning as they are
-I’m aware I shouldn’t have gone exclusive with someone I knew was going to be away for a long time. But honestly, I’ve never felt so contented in such a long time, and when I went on dates with other girls, I just felt no real motivation with them.
-Go shag some other girls – already got a date lined up on Saturday afternoon.
-Recognise I could be overly invested. This is also the first time someone has been broken up with, and it came out of no where, so I know this is influencing my thoughts.

 

[topcat]

Incompatibility is my read also. It’s subtle, but it’s clear you get upset and needy over the fact that she can’t give you as much of her time as you want. Her excuses for why are “girl speak” and so don’t actually address the real issue.

You seem to want a relationship with a girl who has the time and willing to give it to you so my suggestion going forward is to screen for this with other girls rather than attempt to fit incompatible girls into a relationship they aren’t suited for.

With better frame and relationship control you could probably pull this off but it doesn’t sound like you’re quite there yet. Letting go of this one may be a tad hard but it is what it is - a learning experience.

Now you know what you don’t want, go and get what you do.

 

[slashrfnr]

Ah thanks man - not the advice I wanted to hear but probably the advice I needed to hear! I'd kind of (optimistically) thought that work patterns are changeable, which is why I thought the incompatibility around that was surmountable, but she probably just is the sort of person that enjoys her work

Also thought I was past neediness but I guess I got severe oneitis

Incompatibility is my read also. It’s subtle, but it’s clear you get upset and needy over the fact that she can’t give you as much of her time as you want. Her excuses for why are “girl speak” and so don’t actually address the real issue.

Just to clarify, are you saying that this is what is causing her to feel pressure? Like I'm not being outwardly needy/upset by being like 'why won't you spend more time with me' but the fact she could see I get disappointed when we can't hangout is the subtle neediness that then puts the pressure on her

With better frame and relationship control you could probably pull this off but it doesn’t sound like you’re quite there yet. Letting go of this one may be a tad hard but it is what it is - a learning experience.

Could you expand on this a bit more? I agree I'm not there yet, but I'd like to understand what you would do to pull this off?

 

[topcat]

but the fact she could see I get disappointed when we can't hangout is the subtle neediness that then puts the pressure on her

I’d say this is a contributing factor, yes, but it’s likely to be something instinctive on her side, not necessarily something she can objectively put her finger on.

Could you expand on this a bit more? I agree I'm not there yet, but I'd like to understand what you would do to pull this off?

Me personally, i’d take her word for it. I’m not one to convince somebody against their own better judgment (unless i have something far better to offer them) nor somebody to compromise either. @Chase or @Skills may have better advice on how to influence her in that direction but i risk sounding KJ. Sorry.

 

[slashrfnr]

Me personally, i’d take her word for it. I’m not one to convince somebody against their own better judgment (unless i have something far better to offer them) nor somebody to compromise either. @Chase or @Skills may have better advice on how to influence her in that direction but i risk sounding KJ. Sorry.

Ah gotcha - yeah I don't think I would want to convince someone to be someone they aren't - even if I do like to think the offer of me is better than the offer of her job ha

I've also seen this so often in the forum but never understood it - what does KJ mean? Always assumed it mean KillJoy but that didn't make sense to me either

 

[topcat]

Ah gotcha - yeah I don't think I would want to convince someone to be someone they aren't - even if I do like to think the offer of me is better than the offer of her job ha

I've also seen this so often in the forum but never understood it - what does KJ mean? Always assumed it mean KillJoy but that didn't make sense to me either

keyboard jockey - somebody who gives advice on things they have no experience doing.

 

[Skills]

Incompatibility is my read also. It’s subtle, but it’s clear you get upset and needy over the fact that she can’t give you as much of her time as you want. Her excuses for why are “girl speak” and so don’t actually address the real issue.

You seem to want a relationship with a girl who has the time and willing to give it to you so my suggestion going forward is to screen for this with other girls rather than attempt to fit incompatible girls into a relationship they aren’t suited for.

With better frame and relationship control you could probably pull this off but it doesn’t sound like you’re quite there yet. Letting go of this one may be a tad hard but it is what it is - a learning experience.

Now you know what you don’t want, go and get what you do.

Well yeah he is suffocating her, no space, and then guild trips .... this is exactly what I mention in a post, were I made the point that guys need to experience being in the other shoe...this type of behavior when you experience from girls which by the way op, this is totally feminine behavior is repulsive, I have gotten rid of many girls due to this...men are men to be free, women to contain... many women complain about guys suffocating them, which is what you are doing, very needy behavior..

 

[Chase]

@slashrfnr,

Well, she’s 32 (almost 33) and single. She’s going to tend to be a more disagreeable / extreme sort. So her taking things you say and extrapolating out from them is kind of expected.

She’s acutely aware of how difficult her schedule makes dating. She may have had fights with exes over it. So even if you aren’t putting tons of pressure on her over it, just little things like, “Oh, you have to cancel tonight? All right, well, that’s too bad, but do what you need to,” or, “Babe, you know you work too hard,” are going to get her going, “Oh no, I’m putting another guy off with my crazy schedule again. Nuts!”

Vacation vs. schooling is a pretty worthwhile values clash when it comes to childrearing. Since she’s evaluating you hard as a husband and father (“hoped it’d be my last relationship ever”), she’s going to run clashes like that through the wringer. You’re considering her “rationalizing” things by bringing this up… well if it was a rationalization, why was it even still floating around in her head? It’s a worry, not a rationalization.

Pro tip: when girls do the “What would you choose, if you had to choose one of these?” double-binds, you never fall for the double-bind (I mean… unless you LIKE giving yourself more drama!). You just go, “Yes, both those. Of course we would do both those. Look, baby: I’m confident that no MATTER the situation, we could do them both. Hey, I’m going to rule the world… we’ll be able to do both.” If she won’t let up and it actually is an issue you feel strongly about, then you don’t just pick one and leave it at that… you do the whole explanation: “Well, A and B are both really important to me… I tend to think blah blah blah plus blah blah so blah blah and in the end blah so if I absolutely HAD to choose I think I’d be A. What would you choose?” Then you get to talking about it and sync up. Rather than just do the typical guy “Oh she wants me to pick an option. Okay I’ll pick this option” and then you’re stuck drowning in this trap while she’s crying and wailing and you’re going “What did I do? Wha… I thought it was just a question!” (chicks are weird man, what can I say)

It’s hard to advise here because it’s not clear what you want with this girl and what she (thinks she) wants right now. Do you want to wife her up and have 3 kids with her and turn her into a SAHM? Do you want 1 kid with her and she keeps her high-flying career? Or are you more “hey it’s going great but no need to rush let’s just go with the flow” with this chick?

What SHE wants is obvious, in part: husband, babies. It’s not obvious what she envisions her lifestyle to be (still working as much? Still traveling as much? Who takes care of the kids? Nannies?).

Anyway, when she’s running around pregnant with your kid in her, she probably won’t be maintaining as crazy a schedule, flying all over the place… and then when she’s got the newborn baby out… probably, too.

But those are probably the big compatibility questions to figure out:

• She wants marriage and babies. Is that what you want?
• Is she going to breastfeed? If she’s all “formula is fine” she probably intends to keep working/traveling
• Does she want to hire nannies? Again, probably wants to keep working/traveling
• You really need to figure out what kind of life she envisions. Doesn’t necessarily mean she will stick to that… most chicks when they have kids cut the rest of their lives way back. But some do not

She broke up with you, rather than you breaking up with her. Personally, I would simply just not contact her at all unless/until I heard from her. Onus is on the break-up-er to get back in touch. If she’s a “super decisive make a decision then stick to it” type she might never get back in touch. I don’t know if she’s the type to say “well, we’re incompatible on key issues. Another one bites the dust, I guess. Back to the old dating grind”, but the older she is while still single, the more likely she is to be that type. So you might not hear back at all.

The other thing I would say here is you let a woman misunderstand your positions and state your positions to you inaccurately and just tried reassuring rather than forcefully defending your positions. With these types of career chicks, you’ve got to shut down their frame control attempts, man. They’ll just chew you up otherwise.

When she’s going “Well your position is X and you think Y and you feel Z” and you’re going “Huh? Wha? Da fuq?” The correct answer is not “Baby, you misunderstand, I actually blah blah” but “Excuse me, what the heck are you talking about? You’re completely misrepresenting my positions. I kinda feel like you do not actually know me at all if that’s what you think of me. I mean, have we even communicated in this relationship? I thought we were but now I’m thinking I guess not.”

You need to hard pattern interrupt that stuff. Just letting it slide with soft reassurances is a kiss of death.

Shut that shit down. That’s the only thing that gets through to a hard-driving chick who’s in the midst of telling you what she thinks you think and feel.

(and you know, I’d never let it get to this point, but… if I found myself at such a point with a chick, I would, personally, be very annoyed at having been so misunderstood and mischaracterized, and so maybe I would/probably would just send her something like, “Hey, btw, you did this whole ‘breaking up with slashrfnr over these positions I say he holds that he doesn’t actually hold and over these feelings I’m claiming he has that I blow totally out of proportion’ and honestly, babe, I don’t appreciate getting grossly mischaracterized like that and actually now I kinda feel like you don’t know who I am at all. So maybe this was the right call, if our communication is that bad. Crazy, because it’s like I was dating a stranger the whole time.” But don’t do that unless you can actually hold that frame. That would actually be my legitimate frame. If you get on a call and aren’t aggressively wrecking-balling her frame like I would be, because I’d be so annoyed at her trying to tell me who I was, but are instead reassuring her again, it’s just going to collapse)

From a more meta-view though… you may not want a chick this hard-driving. You’re going to have a lot more clashes like this with a girl like her. A LOT. If you can’t respond to those with equal vehemence it’s not going to last.

Chase

 

[Skills]

Again, i don't think is too much to look into, i have been in the exact situation, when you are working or doing projects or hobbies or activities... And you feel guilty cause you are not spending time with your partner that the partners demands and you feel obligated(and they complain in subcommunication non verbally, verbally and passive aggressive), it is super annoying and frustrating and yes again leads to break ups (cause you feel you are walking with weights in your legs, most seducers i know have experience this at one point or another).... When i date women i tell them listen i only have one rule i will do what i want to do cause i want to, the guilt trips, manipulation, tantrums, passive aggressive behavior that work on other guys so they can submitt to do what you want, including tears that work on other dudes will not work on me.... This i repeat couple of times during dating periods, they still try to see if i am bluffing when they see it does not work on me, they gets super frustrated and start crying..... When things come down i tell them, i told you when we meet and then i have to repeat the whole sentence, after couple of those incidents they get the point, if this keeps happening i just end it....

^ this is not to be confuse to go all tate or all neglectful, i still put a lot of effort and spend quality time in the relatinships cause i care about the women, but some times you give and inch and they want the whole hand....

Your girls is just busy and doing stuff, and have stuff planned, and i guarantee you this type of dynamics is what is happening..... (Again i have been there multiple times, as i am writing this, funny enough a girl attempting this, not even lying right now, had to tell her to let me finish type this that i will be with her in a few minutes, honest to god)

This is what is kind of what is happening here, i dated south african women(here is a lay report on one i dated), they are just amazing awesome women... The best women i ever dated in my life was from south africa(so i know where you coming from)... Super cool girls, only girl i regretted losing, she was just that amazing, and yes they got a lot of shit going. (really hard working girls and goal oriented) but yet very feminine and amazing girls..

 

[slashrfnr]

Well yeah he is suffocating her, no space, and then guild trips .... this is exactly what I mention in a post, were I made the point that guys need to experience being in the other shoe...this type of behavior when you experience from girls which by the way op, this is totally feminine behavior is repulsive, I have gotten rid of many girls due to this...men are men to be free, women to contain... many women complain about guys suffocating them, which is what you are doing, very needy behavior..

Lol thanks Skills. I'm not going to deny that I did get irritated/needy if she cancelled plans/left early (especially the time she had to leave and we didn't get to bang ha) but I'm quite surprised by your view that I was suffocating her, giving her no space, demanding of her time, being passive aggressive, guilt tripping (I very much went out of my way to ensure it what I said didn't seem like a guilt trip, because I'm pretty understanding of her workload) - could you point out specific examples to help me understand?

We were meeting each other once, sometimes twice a week which I was happy with - sometimes her suggesting it, sometimes me, and I definitely never tried to meet up with her more frequently than that. I've also got quite a lot of hobbies, I spend much of my week nights working on music or playing tennis, and then weekends socialising with friends, so I'm not sitting around biding the time until I could see her again.

I also thought I very deliberately gave her space, knowing how busy she was. Knowing how busy she was at work and her not being one to look at her phone in general, I never excessively texted her, sometimes letting a day or two pass before getting in contact, and when she went away for the weekend, let her text me first because I know how annoying it is when you are on holiday, and people are texting you.

Overall, I didn't feel like I was exhibiting needy/suffocating behaviour - although I wouldn't have picked up on me subcommunicating it/non verbal behaviour

Your girls is just busy and doing stuff, and have stuff planned, and i guarantee you this type of dynamics is what is happening..... (Again i have been there multiple times, as i am writing this, funny enough a girl attempting this, not even lying right now, had to tell her to let me finish type this that i will be with her in a few minutes, honest to god)

Ha appreciate it!

This is what is kind of what is happening here, i dated south african women(here is a lay report on one i dated), they are just amazing awesome women... The best women i ever dated in my life was from south africa(so i know where you coming from)... Super cool girls, only girl i regretted losing, she was just that amazing, and yes they got a lot of shit going. (really hard working girls and goal oriented) but yet very feminine and amazing girls..

And yeah, she grew up pretty poor, so she is very determined to make something better for herself. So much so that she said she wished she could be a nurse, but it just won't provide her with the resources for the life she wants.

 

[slashrfnr]

Thanks for the very considered response Chase - i imagine it took you a while to type that all out, so appreciate it!

Pro tip: when girls do the “What would you choose, if you had to choose one of these?” double-binds, you never fall for the double-bind (I mean… unless you LIKE giving yourself more drama!). You just go, “Yes, both those. Of course we would do both those. Look, baby: I’m confident that no MATTER the situation, we could do them both. Hey, I’m going to rule the world… we’ll be able to do both.” If she won’t let up and it actually is an issue you feel strongly about, then you don’t just pick one and leave it at that… you do the whole explanation: “Well, A and B are both really important to me… I tend to think blah blah blah plus blah blah so blah blah and in the end blah so if I absolutely HAD to choose I think I’d be A. What would you choose?” Then you get to talking about it and sync up. Rather than just do the typical guy “Oh she wants me to pick an option. Okay I’ll pick this option” and then you’re stuck drowning in this trap while she’s crying and wailing and you’re going “What did I do? Wha… I thought it was just a question!” (chicks are weird man, what can I say)

Yeah, I think I kind of a shoot from the hip/say stuff without thinking it through first, especially when I think it is just an innocuous comment. I mean of course, if I could afford to, I'd send my kids to private school - I'm not going to handicap the just because I'm left wing and have an aversion to private school. But I didn't consider the context of her evaluating me on it, so didn't address it properly

It’s hard to advise here because it’s not clear what you want with this girl and what she (thinks she) wants right now. Do you want to wife her up and have 3 kids with her and turn her into a SAHM? Do you want 1 kid with her and she keeps her high-flying career? Or are you more “hey it’s going great but no need to rush let’s just go with the flow” with this chick?

What SHE wants is obvious, in part: husband, babies. It’s not obvious what she envisions her lifestyle to be (still working as much? Still traveling as much? Who takes care of the kids? Nannies?).

It was quite early on to have that sort of discussion, but in principle, I'm looking to settle down and have a 1 or 2 children, but wouldn't turn her into a SAHM unless she wanted it, and I doubt she would want it.

Anyway, when she’s running around pregnant with your kid in her, she probably won’t be maintaining as crazy a schedule, flying all over the place… and then when she’s got the newborn baby out… probably, too.

Yeah it doesn't seem like she was considering this. Along with your point about the lifestyle she envisions - people have grand ideas about it but don't often stick to it (i.e me thinking I would still be able to do drugs and partying every weekend in my 30s)

She broke up with you, rather than you breaking up with her. Personally, I would simply just not contact her at all unless/until I heard from her. Onus is on the break-up-er to get back in touch. If she’s a “super decisive make a decision then stick to it” type she might never get back in touch. I don’t know if she’s the type to say “well, we’re incompatible on key issues. Another one bites the dust, I guess. Back to the old dating grind”, but the older she is while still single, the more likely she is to be that type. So you might not hear back at all.

I suspect this. I'm annoyed that I haven't had a proper opportunity to fight back on some of the things she said. That was partly based on my judgement call that if she was feeling a lot of pressure and doubt now, it was better just to give her space, rather than try and tie her down right before she goes on away for a month. Guess I may not find out whether that was the right call or not.

From a more meta-view though… you may not want a chick this hard-driving. You’re going to have a lot more clashes like this with a girl like her. A LOT. If you can’t respond to those with equal vehemence it’s not going to last.

This is a very good point and something my logical brain keeps bringing up. She certainly isn't super hard driving in person, and we generally have quite considered debates, but I know she has strong views about what she wants.