- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
- Messages
- 774
Hey all, I’m back with a new and interesting development in my relationship. I’m not really sure how to handle this. This is going to be a long read so apologies in advance.
Background (Her finding out about my involvement in the community):
Basically, my girlfriend knew I was into pickup before meeting her (and after, before we were exclusive). She knows about Neil Strauss and the game. A couple of weeks ago, she found some pickup notes of mine (by zooming in on a random photo I sent her of me catching a spider with it). This was innocent as someone had done it to her but it backfired as she realized how deep this actually was. This spawned hours of conversation from her about how pickup was toxic, specifically bringing up negging as being manipulative (one of the notes she saw was a very very mild neg, and not even a neg as I noted to say it jokingly), and LMR (“what about consent??). Those were the two she brought up most frequently. I found out that she had been browsing pickup forums herself. She has figured out that I am part of a forum and tried to get me to tell her which one but of course I refused.
I didn’t want to get into this conversation but I pretty much put her in her place calmly, telling her that she was talking about things that she didn’t fully understand, before then countering her arguments.
The crux of her misunderstanding is that she has equated game with the red pill, incels and mens rights activists. In her mind, all of these movements spawn from men seeing women as the problem, as objects. And in her mind, it was game that caused men to see women as objects or the problem in the first place.
Of course this is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense (how did game create incels and mens rights activists – they only exist because they refuse to learn game). I basically explained to her how the game/red pill etc had given people a misguided idea about what game really was. And then explained how there was a level above the noise, a level where men sought to truly understand and love women, not seeing them as objects or a problem, but lovingly seeing and appreciating them for who they were. And that game to these men was simply a way to fully realize that love, equating it to a dance between men and women.
Because she was bringing up LMR so much, I explained to her that in order to have sex, women needed to feel comfortable with their man (“how can you speak for all women like that!!??” she interjected) but I ignored her. I then repeated what I said and said that many LMR wasn’t forcing a woman to do what she didn’t want to, but basically making her feel allowed to give into her desires by making her comfortable, and that if you didn’t make her comfortable or make her want to, that of course you’d stop.
Background (In the bedroom):
Early on in the relationship, I had performance anxiety, sometimes not being to get hard. I would get frustrated with myself about this, but she would tell me it was ok. This problem has largely disappeared but she still wondered why I got so frustrated about it.
Another time, a couple months back, we were talking about sex when she brought up how a lot of guys were influenced by porn and that she had told me about friends of hers who had guys want to spit on them, and how degraded it made them feel, but they did it anyway to please them. I told her that of course the guys should have intuited that the girls didn’t want that, but then explained to her that spitting in and of itself wasn’t a bad thing during sex, and that it could actually be quite enjoyable, especially in a roleplay scenario. I told her that sometimes I liked doing it, and it didn’t mean I didn’t respect her.
The other day, she spontaneously told me to come over as I was nearby. I couldn’t as I was catching up with my friends at the time and went home. Later, as “punishment”, while we were making out, when I went to have sex with her she told me that she was going to punish me for refusing her that day. This was all in good fun to make me work a bit harder, but at some point she told me that she wanted me to “beg for it”. At this point I actually lost my boner completely. We eventually had sex, but later she complained that “you always tease me, but the one time I tease and refuse you this happened”. I explained that it wasn’t the fact she was holding out. I didn’t mind that. I told her that I wasn’t into the whole idea of “begging for it” though and that the specific wording had killed my boner, not the scenario itself.
Alright Beam, that’s a whole lot you’ve written out, what’s your point?
The problem is my girlfriend basically thinks that I have a misguided view of what masculinity is based on being involved in the community. She told me that I put so much pressure on myself in the bedroom, and that it seems like I’m always calling the shots in the bedroom, that it’s always about what I want to do and not her (which is a little unfair since she enjoys it, and everytime we hang out pushes for it more than me. I swear her sex drive is higher than mine now) She told me that “you said you were open to all forms of sex, but it seems that you don’t like it when I take control” which is not true, as she has taken control many times, however this wasn’t enough for her ”yeah, but the end result of that was still pleasuring you! (in reference to her blindfolding me and going down on me)”. Well duh, when the other person takes control it’s still supposed to be pleasurable for the other party, it isn’t supposed to feel like shit.
My problem is, I fully buy in to the idea that masculinity in the Western world is on the decline, and I am trying to counter the social programming by becoming more masculine. Part of this involves never allowing yourself to be truly submissive in the bedroom, as the dynamics in the bedroom affect the relationship outside of that. However, I am not yet experienced enough to the point where women fully believe it. In many ways, I am still faking it until I make it, and it is very obvious to my girlfriend who is very cluey. The problem is, try as I might to defend myself, I still don’t have the experience to fully defend what I am trying to do, since it goes so far against what mainstream society says. and a lot of the time I am not speaking from experience, but from what I have read on this forum. And so as a result, the arguments lack conviction and she believes I am being brainwashed by what I am reading rather than speaking from experience.
I really am not sure how to handle this situation. I don't know how I am supposed to explain to her what I really think (about how men are supposed to be the leaders in the relationship and women are the followers etc) without coming across as "sexist" or "backwards". Making any reference to her being a "follower" no matter how I phrase it would cause a nuclear fallout... .
I am wondering if any guys here have had similar experiences with their girlfriends who are fully plugged into the mainstream bs of the modern world. I have read articles where Chase has had to shut his girlfriends down on similar topics but I don't have Chases level of experience to be able to pull this off congruently...
Background (Her finding out about my involvement in the community):
Basically, my girlfriend knew I was into pickup before meeting her (and after, before we were exclusive). She knows about Neil Strauss and the game. A couple of weeks ago, she found some pickup notes of mine (by zooming in on a random photo I sent her of me catching a spider with it). This was innocent as someone had done it to her but it backfired as she realized how deep this actually was. This spawned hours of conversation from her about how pickup was toxic, specifically bringing up negging as being manipulative (one of the notes she saw was a very very mild neg, and not even a neg as I noted to say it jokingly), and LMR (“what about consent??). Those were the two she brought up most frequently. I found out that she had been browsing pickup forums herself. She has figured out that I am part of a forum and tried to get me to tell her which one but of course I refused.
I didn’t want to get into this conversation but I pretty much put her in her place calmly, telling her that she was talking about things that she didn’t fully understand, before then countering her arguments.
The crux of her misunderstanding is that she has equated game with the red pill, incels and mens rights activists. In her mind, all of these movements spawn from men seeing women as the problem, as objects. And in her mind, it was game that caused men to see women as objects or the problem in the first place.
Of course this is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense (how did game create incels and mens rights activists – they only exist because they refuse to learn game). I basically explained to her how the game/red pill etc had given people a misguided idea about what game really was. And then explained how there was a level above the noise, a level where men sought to truly understand and love women, not seeing them as objects or a problem, but lovingly seeing and appreciating them for who they were. And that game to these men was simply a way to fully realize that love, equating it to a dance between men and women.
Because she was bringing up LMR so much, I explained to her that in order to have sex, women needed to feel comfortable with their man (“how can you speak for all women like that!!??” she interjected) but I ignored her. I then repeated what I said and said that many LMR wasn’t forcing a woman to do what she didn’t want to, but basically making her feel allowed to give into her desires by making her comfortable, and that if you didn’t make her comfortable or make her want to, that of course you’d stop.
Background (In the bedroom):
Early on in the relationship, I had performance anxiety, sometimes not being to get hard. I would get frustrated with myself about this, but she would tell me it was ok. This problem has largely disappeared but she still wondered why I got so frustrated about it.
Another time, a couple months back, we were talking about sex when she brought up how a lot of guys were influenced by porn and that she had told me about friends of hers who had guys want to spit on them, and how degraded it made them feel, but they did it anyway to please them. I told her that of course the guys should have intuited that the girls didn’t want that, but then explained to her that spitting in and of itself wasn’t a bad thing during sex, and that it could actually be quite enjoyable, especially in a roleplay scenario. I told her that sometimes I liked doing it, and it didn’t mean I didn’t respect her.
The other day, she spontaneously told me to come over as I was nearby. I couldn’t as I was catching up with my friends at the time and went home. Later, as “punishment”, while we were making out, when I went to have sex with her she told me that she was going to punish me for refusing her that day. This was all in good fun to make me work a bit harder, but at some point she told me that she wanted me to “beg for it”. At this point I actually lost my boner completely. We eventually had sex, but later she complained that “you always tease me, but the one time I tease and refuse you this happened”. I explained that it wasn’t the fact she was holding out. I didn’t mind that. I told her that I wasn’t into the whole idea of “begging for it” though and that the specific wording had killed my boner, not the scenario itself.
Alright Beam, that’s a whole lot you’ve written out, what’s your point?
The problem is my girlfriend basically thinks that I have a misguided view of what masculinity is based on being involved in the community. She told me that I put so much pressure on myself in the bedroom, and that it seems like I’m always calling the shots in the bedroom, that it’s always about what I want to do and not her (which is a little unfair since she enjoys it, and everytime we hang out pushes for it more than me. I swear her sex drive is higher than mine now) She told me that “you said you were open to all forms of sex, but it seems that you don’t like it when I take control” which is not true, as she has taken control many times, however this wasn’t enough for her ”yeah, but the end result of that was still pleasuring you! (in reference to her blindfolding me and going down on me)”. Well duh, when the other person takes control it’s still supposed to be pleasurable for the other party, it isn’t supposed to feel like shit.
My problem is, I fully buy in to the idea that masculinity in the Western world is on the decline, and I am trying to counter the social programming by becoming more masculine. Part of this involves never allowing yourself to be truly submissive in the bedroom, as the dynamics in the bedroom affect the relationship outside of that. However, I am not yet experienced enough to the point where women fully believe it. In many ways, I am still faking it until I make it, and it is very obvious to my girlfriend who is very cluey. The problem is, try as I might to defend myself, I still don’t have the experience to fully defend what I am trying to do, since it goes so far against what mainstream society says. and a lot of the time I am not speaking from experience, but from what I have read on this forum. And so as a result, the arguments lack conviction and she believes I am being brainwashed by what I am reading rather than speaking from experience.
I really am not sure how to handle this situation. I don't know how I am supposed to explain to her what I really think (about how men are supposed to be the leaders in the relationship and women are the followers etc) without coming across as "sexist" or "backwards". Making any reference to her being a "follower" no matter how I phrase it would cause a nuclear fallout... .
I am wondering if any guys here have had similar experiences with their girlfriends who are fully plugged into the mainstream bs of the modern world. I have read articles where Chase has had to shut his girlfriends down on similar topics but I don't have Chases level of experience to be able to pull this off congruently...
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This part gets more messy. 
