Girls in rotations verbalizing how they sleep or date other people

DoWhatWorks

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TLDR: FB's are mentioning how they're going on a date or they've slept with someone else

Any ideas on what may be causing this?

More context:

On all occasions I'm chill and act like it's no big deal. I date girls for at least 3 months if not 6 before even having the "conversation" of whether we're casual/where it's going.

In the past girls would either:

  • Drop off and get boyfriends or just ghost when they realise it's going nowhere
  • Not verbalize anything sexual and go with the flow
  • Try and maintain the image of being a good GF candidate

Wondering why more recently girls are being explicit with their sex life - Any ideas?

I'm thinking that my more sexual nature vs a year ago may make them more comfortable sharing and also the fact that me not vocalizing anything makes them say it to see my reaction and gage where things are going...

Any input welcome!
 

DoWhatWorks

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Unusual sign of very low investment...unless shit testing u.. but unusual..

Yeah not sure what’s causing it.

2/3 of the girls that have shown that behaviour are fresh out of break ups

Other one I’m pretty confident was a test to see where we’re as she’s been hinting quite a lot
 

TomInHo

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From reading your recent lay reports this may be happening because of your current frame. You're getting a lot of new lays but also say that you've been having issues with conversions and retention lately am I correct?

Because they view you as a stone cold player where there's probably no hope of a future, so they have no need to pretend like they're a good girl around you. They don't want to invest because they don't believe you're going to stick around

You're strictly for sex, because your attainability for something long term is low.

Yeah not sure what’s causing it.

2/3 of the girls that have shown that behaviour are fresh out of break ups

Other one I’m pretty confident was a test to see where we’re as she’s been hinting quite a lot

This makes sense. You're the rebound and they're using you as a placeholder until they find their next BF.

I had a similar problem last year. I would disqualify myself as a boyfriend in order to get laid faster, but also noticed that when I did that, girls were less serious about me. They treated my like a dildo

Felt good at first cuz I was getting first date and same night lays like crazy, but just like you my retention plummeted..

What helped was that after I got the lay, I would transition my game to showcase more boyfriend value in order to give them some hope. I upped the warmth and investment a little to show them that I cared and inspire them to chase

So to sum it up, they're treating you like this because your lover value is high but they don't feel like they can access your provider value. They're closing themselves up so they don't get their hearts broken

Means you might need to calibrate your game within the relationships to be a little less of a challenge while still maintaining attractive qualities and your non monogamous frame
 

Skills

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From reading your recent lay reports this may be happening because of your current frame. You're getting a lot of new lays but also say that you've been having issues with conversions and retention lately am I correct?

Because they view you as a stone cold player where there's probably no hope of a future, so they have no need to pretend like they're a good girl around you. They don't want to invest because they don't believe you're going to stick around

You're strictly for sex, because your attainability for something long term is low.



This makes sense. You're the rebound and they're using you as a placeholder until they find their next BF.

I had a similar problem last year. I would disqualify myself as a boyfriend in order to get laid faster, but also noticed that when I did that, girls were less serious about me. They treated my like a dildo

Felt good at first cuz I was getting first date and same night lays like crazy, but just like you my retention plummeted..

What helped was that after I got the lay, I would transition my game to showcase more boyfriend value in order to give them some hope. I upped the warmth and investment a little to show them that I cared and inspire them to chase

So to sum it up, they're treating you like this because your lover value is high but they don't feel like they can access your provider value. They're closing themselves up so they don't get their hearts broken

Means you might need to calibrate your game within the relationships to be a little less of a challenge while still maintaining attractive qualities and your non monogamous frame

Excellent point! yeah you can not be 100% lover player frame, there needs to be a % for hope...... 70% player 30% bf possibility... The % are irrelevant and people can disagree all day, the major point is that they need to believe there is a chance somewhere....
 

DoWhatWorks

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You're getting a lot of new lays but also say that you've been having issues with conversions and retention lately am I correct?

That’s right man


So to sum it up, they're treating you like this because your lover value is high but they don't feel like they can access your provider value. They're closing themselves up so they don't get their hearts broken

makes a lot of sense

Means you might need to calibrate your game within the relationships to be a little less of a challenge while still maintaining attractive qualities and your non monogamous frame


This is useful thank you!

Finding the adjustment hard as in the past I was the guy who wasn’t as good at getting new girls but who’s retention was high.

Think I’m confused because I think I’m acting the same warm nice guy way but without realising I’m perhaps coming across cold/mechanical.

Any ideas on what exactly I can do?

for context I already:

- deep dive & bring up things they’ve spoke about in the past/take an active interest
- good sex (hence why a lot have come back at least twice before dropping off)
- Order them ubers home same night or morning
- say that I’ve been in long term relationships in the past
- share that I’m in a stable job in tech

May just be a personal thing I need to figure out but thought I’d share. Worth mentioning that I am still retaining girls just % dramatically decreased vs last year lol. Partly as I’m pickier now too.
 

Chase

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Some good analysis there by @TomInHo & @Skills.

I'll say, I ran into this issue as a seduction newbie. I wasn't sexy and I wasn't smooth... the things I was doing was I was picking girls up in clubs, and I'd set FWB relationship expectations right from the get-go, though aside from that I was pretty rough around the edges. I got a lot of player accusations when I was new though, too. The first FWB I had start telling me about some guy she'd shagged on a date in between when I SNL'ed her and the next time we shagged I was kind of shocked... played it cool and all but it triggered some jealousy for a moment.

It's a bit of a breach in unspoken etiquette to just start talking about dating / shagging someone else if that topic hasn't been built up to gradually, so if it's happening it's pretty safe to assume one of these two things must be true:

  1. She has some motive for doing it

  2. She's just low EQ / has no filter and just says whatever to anyone she thinks will be comfortable with it

There are definitely the #2 girls out there. But there's a lot more #1 girls.

The motives IME seem to boil down to being one of these:

  • She wants to see if you REALLY want only to be an FWB and might instead chase for a relationship if she dangles there are other men in the mix

  • She feels like you're too big a player / too high value compared to her and wants to get some value back by communicating that yes, she has some options too, so actually you're on an equal footing in this relationship

  • She feels like you're a lot more experienced than her and she wants to "prove herself" by showing off how comfortable she is hooking up and talking about it so you don't think she's a naïve inexperienced girl and ditch her (a bit similar to that last bullet)

Not sure I'd recommend being less of a challenge (as far as monogamy is concerned) unless that is what you wanted. Otherwise you risk leading her on and setting yourself up for headaches when she realizes you don't actually want that with her.

Instead I would probably dial down some of the value you're showing off post-sex and make myself a little more down to earth (maybe this is what @TomInHo meant). Thus instead of this super experienced big bad player you're just a chill guy she's sleeping with and she doesn't need to compare bedposts with you or prove she can do it too.

Chase
 

DoWhatWorks

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Super helpful as always @Chase thank you!

I'll say, I ran into this issue as a seduction newbie. I wasn't sexy and I wasn't smooth... the things I was doing was I was picking girls up in clubs, and I'd set FWB relationship expectations right from the get-go, though aside from that I was pretty rough around the edges. I got a lot of player accusations

Any common things you've seen guys unconsciously do that triggers this?

In the past girls would tell me "I can't tell if you're a player or harmless" but looks like I've tipped over firmly into player category. Find it strange as apart from sharing a few general observations about men/women dynamics I put myself forward as a regular cool guy who happens to have a ton of ambition.

Instead I would probably dial down some of the value you're showing off post-sex and make myself a little more down to earth

Again any exact things you'd recommend I dial down E.g. stop mentioning career & say "I get by" and be vague with past long term relationships?
 

topcat

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Again any exact things you'd recommend I dial down E.g. stop mentioning career & say "I get by" and be vague with past long term relationships?
correct me if I'm wrong @Chase, but in this context i believe the value you need to dial down is the cold player value - be more warm and cuddly/playful without over doing it (not career or financial value).
 

Chase

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@DoWhatWorks,

Any common things you've seen guys unconsciously do that triggers this?

In the past girls would tell me "I can't tell if you're a player or harmless" but looks like I've tipped over firmly into player category. Find it strange as apart from sharing a few general observations about men/women dynamics I put myself forward as a regular cool guy who happens to have a ton of ambition.

Keep in mind that most of the guys girls shag are not cool.

Coolness is really pretty rare. If you were to meet the other guys your girls have shagged you would probably be shocked. Just being cool already tilts you toward being a player in most girls' eyes.

Then add ambition on top of that and you are basically already out of most girls' leagues.

That will put you into the "too high value" / "girl needs to prove herself" box in which she tries to show you that see, she is in demand too, in the only way she can think to that she thinks you might respect... other men trying to go out with her / going out with her / having sex with her.

Again any exact things you'd recommend I dial down E.g. stop mentioning career & say "I get by" and be vague with past long term relationships?

"I get by", said with a smirk, usually implies "Actually, I more than get by."

If you want to up attainability, then you answer "what is your job, really?" like this:

"Oh, geez, the truth is I make these stupid spreadsheets all day, whenever I'm not in pointless meetings. It's not saving the world, I'll tell you that much!"

She'll laugh, she'll tell you it sounds just like her job (even if it's nothing like her job), and you're set.

@topcat's suggestion is on-point:

correct me if I'm wrong @Chase, but in this context i believe the value you need to dial down is the cold player value - be more warm and cuddly/playful without over doing it (not career or financial value).

That's basically it, yeah.

I mean, could be something else DWW is doing that he isn't realizing.

Mostly sounds like he is just too cool for school and too big balla high ambition and these girls are trying to bring themselves up to his level / protect themselves from getting hurt when the inevitable boot out the saloon doors comes sailing over.

Playful, cuddly might help, as would self-deprecating humor, or just avoiding topics that make him sound super high level.

You're already shagging her; there's no need to impress her further. Doing so is basically just dunking on her... so instead you just go out of your way to not dunk on her any chance you get, and keep her feeling like she is right around the same level you are.

Chase
 

TomInHo

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[Keep in mind that most of the guys girls shag are not cool.

Coolness is really pretty rare. If you were to meet the other guys your girls have shagged you would probably be shocked. Just being cool already tilts you toward being a player in most girls' eyes.

Then add ambition on top of that and you are basically already out of most girls' leagues.

That will put you into the "too high value" / "girl needs to prove herself" box in which she tries to show you that see, she is in demand too, in the only way she can think to that she thinks you might respect... other men trying to go out with her / going out with her / having sex with her.

Agreed

When you're in the community for so long or only have player friends its easy to get a warped view of reality about how men really are in the dating market

I'm lucky enough to interact with beautiful women in my day job and get an inside scoop about their dating lives, and most of the men they date are absolutely horrendous because they.....

- Can't dress
- Can't flirt
- If they're lucky enough to get laid they either get too needy or act like total douchebags for no reason
- Are horrible at setting relationship expectations
- Are horrible at leading the relationship
- Are horrible at sex
- Lead with their wallets and suck at building emotional connections

So even the average seducer on this board is leagues above what other men are like.. You have almost no competition

"I get by", said with a smirk, usually implies "Actually, I more than get by."

If you want to up attainability, then you answer "what is your job, really?" like this:

"Oh, geez, the truth is I make these stupid spreadsheets all day, whenever I'm not in pointless meetings. It's not saving the world, I'll tell you that much!"

She'll laugh, she'll tell you it sounds just like her job (even if it's nothing like her job), and you're set.

It's funny because when you are obviously high value, using self deprecating humor and being humble can make you more attractive to the girl and ease her fears of rejection

That's basically it, yeah.

I mean, could be something else DWW is doing that he isn't realizing.

Mostly sounds like he is just too cool for school and too big balla high ambition and these girls are trying to bring themselves up to his level / protect themselves from getting hurt when the inevitable boot out the saloon doors comes sailing over.

Playful, cuddly might help, as would self-deprecating humor, or just avoiding topics that make him sound super high level.

This was what I was referring to earlier about being less of a challenge. It's kind of like you want to be a CHAD that doesn't know he is a CHAD

Girls got egos too, and if you keep shoving it in their face that you're this super cool dude that's out of their league, they will either try to tear you down or burn themselves out trying to be at your level
 
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