Girls suddenly turning cold

[lingua]

A couple of weeks ago my friend and I approached two girls on the bar street around 1 am, they were in a good mood and we got a good reception from them, though it wasn't incredible by any means. We amped up the physical escalation and the girls wanted to go back to the club they're familiar with. While we were on our way, my friend and I had a chance to briefly discuss our plans, I told him that we needed to move the girls asap. When we came to the door, I wove in smooth conversation and touch together which felt really good, so I was in essence hugging her from behind and lightly caressing her breasts as well, she was smiling and laughing as we went it. Finally, we went up to the bar, and the girls told us they wanted to get some drinks, so we waited for the slowest bartenders in the world to take their order. At the same time, my friend was dancing with the other girl and also touching her more and more. My girl seemed a bit shy (as we were grinding to the beat while waiting for the drinks) but the other friend had an expression and behavior as "screaming to be kissed" but I didn't do anything with her and let my friend escalate. At one point I saw one guy approach the other girl and talk to her, I looked at my friend, thinking he got cockblocked, but it turns out she told my wing before talking with this dude that "he was just a friend", so I thought her explaining that to him was a plus.

15 minutes later, we had our shots, and the girls demanded that we get the next round. I subtly reminded my friend that we needed to move these girls to another cozy bar(where we could escalate more without 20 guys circling us like vultures), eventually out of the clubs. So we waited another 5 minutes or so to get the drinks, and then drank our second round. Throughout all of this, we were all dancing and grinding with each of our girls, so it wasn't a cold and boring wait (this is what confuses me). So now, after we had the drinks, we held the girls hands and lead them out of the club, but they stopped for a smoke by the entrance, and said they didn't want to leave. They then made some random conversation with the bouncer(with whom I suppose they're already acquainted with) and told us they would go back in the club. At this point when we went back in the club, and started to dance with them again, they became very cold and distant. My friend was also puzzled at their change of demeanor so he asked the other girl what was going on (in a fun manner), and I barely heard the phrase "I'm not sure if my friend likes you" which was directed at me, and quickly afterwards she couldn't bring herself up to say it again and tried to change subjects. So now, there was another dude who was a friend of these girls and he was just standing around (he didn't have any obvious game) while the girls were ignoring us. I wasn't actually angry or anything (like I assumed I would be), but I wanted to find out how we fucked up, so we could learn from this. I told my friend I was going out to approach other girls, so he asked for the other girl's number and when he called her later that night, to invite her to the 'afterparty' she promptly declined.


Now as I'm writing this, it may sound like a clear cut case of missing escalation windows or something else(?). But when you're in the moment it easy to lose your sense of control of the situation, when you're not experienced with escalation and when things don't go as planned, like me.

If anyone has any insights please share them, I'd love to handle these situations in the future.

 

[Thedoctor]

Lingua,

We amped up the physical escalation and the girls wanted to go back to the club they're familiar with. While we were on our way, my friend and I had a chance to briefly discuss our plans, I told him that we needed to move the girls asap.

You should not have allowed the girls to decide where to go next. You should have moved them to a place of your choosing after meeting them at the first bar. Once you let girls lead the interaction, it all starts to go downhill. If you try to move them where you want to go and they don't follow, then at least you know right away and you won't waste your time on someone who is not interested.

After you tried to leave and they stopped outside the bar, it was time to move on. Simply tell the girls it was nice meeting them, but you and your buddy are going to head on with the night. There's a slight chance that this coaxes the girls to come with you at that point. But, under no circumstances should you have gone back into the club with them. Their refusal to go with you showed that they weren't interested.

-John

 

[Estate]

Lingua,

We amped up the physical escalation and the girls wanted to go back to the club they're familiar with. While we were on our way, my friend and I had a chance to briefly discuss our plans, I told him that we needed to move the girls asap.

You should not have allowed the girls to decide where to go next. You should have moved them to a place of your choosing after meeting them at the first bar. Once you let girls lead the interaction, it all starts to go downhill. If you try to move them where you want to go and they don't follow, then at least you know right away and you won't waste your time on someone who is not interested.

After you tried to leave and they stopped outside the bar, it was time to move on. Simply tell the girls it was nice meeting them, but you and your buddy are going to head on with the night. There's a slight chance that this coaxes the girls to come with you at that point. But, under no circumstances should you have gone back into the club with them. Their refusal to go with you showed that they weren't interested.

-John

I'm not sure I completely agree in this case.

I see the same mis-understanding coming up again and again about "moving" a girl.

What moving IS:
Moving her can be as simple as moving her from the bar where she's around a group of people to a lounge seat 3 feet away. I COULD be a different place of the bar/club, a different room or a different bar altogether but it doesn't NEED to be. Moving simply advances the interaction. So if you meet her with her friend, you can literally move 3 ft to a seat and you are now just "you and her" and it's no longer a group dynamic or even if she was alone it's no longer "her" space. You lead her to this new place 3 feet away.

So in this instance I think you were just being too uptight and probably not entertaining her enough. I don't really understand why you were thinking of moving the girls before you even got to the club!?!? That in itself is moving, you met them on the street which is what they associate you with, but if you MOVE them to the club, they now have that experience with you. Instead of thinking you as the randomer she met in her space (where she was on the street), she now thinks of you as the guy she went to X place with. So you're ramping up the interaction already.

Not allowing her choose the venue here can be a pitfall IMO. If you had another BETTER place in mind or could invite them back to a party, that would be awesome. But given it was 1am and they wanted to go clubbing, I think trying too fast to move them to a quieter bar or anywhere not as lively was going to get a negative reaction. You hadn't hooked them yet. If they were hooked, they'd go anywhere with you. I'm guessing they were drunk, liked that they met 2 guys but already knew what they wanted to do. Without a rock solid alternative, I think going to where they picked was the best you could do here.

Once inside. You have now moved them from the street to the club. Trying to get them to move AGAIN wasn't a good idea. They wanted clubbing, until you began to give them the night of their life, they were just looking to party. Trying to move them out of the club was going to lose it for you.
I understand the part about them wanting drinks, but again, you need to get them hooked. If you're waiting around for drinks its just killing the whole vibe.

Possibly, you needed to do the work on the way to the venue. By the time you get there, if she just want drinks or to run of dancing, you haven't engaged her enough. By the time you get there, you want her hanging on your every word.

 

[lingua]

After you tried to leave and they stopped outside the bar, it was time to move on. Simply tell the girls it was nice meeting them, but you and your buddy are going to head on with the night.

My buddy is convinced that persisting is the key, whenever I see the interaction dying and girls having zero interest in reviving it or doing things together, I give the signal to move on but he likes to continue and put more time and investment. (with this tactic) Perhaps I lose a couple of girls who would have gone home with me, but I don't intend on spending half of the night on one girl who isn't hooked after some time and giving all my energy to her.

So in this instance I think you were just being too uptight and probably not entertaining her enough

Waiting for the drinks mostly killed the vibe for me, I've got to be better at maintaining positive energy and having fun/entertaining with the girl.

Possibly, you needed to do the work on the way to the venue. By the time you get there, if she just want drinks or to run of dancing, you haven't engaged her enough. By the time you get there, you want her hanging on your every word.

We were about 15 meters away from the entrance of the club, so I had a second or two to talk to my friend. The rest of the initial physical stuff happened at the door while waiting to show IDs. So there wasn't much time to engage on the way.

 

[Chase]

I'll weigh in here.

When you're deciding whether to go along with the girls to where they want to go, or try to pull them along with you against their plans (or, alternately, just trade numbers and reconnect with them later) comes down to what sort of mode they seem to be in at the moment and who they're meeting up with. Pretty key to figure this out.

For instance... if you meet women on vacation, and it is just the two of them, and just you two guys, and they aren't joining anybody else, it can be fine to roll with them, if they are coupling off with you (one of them sticks with one of you guys, the other with the other). In this case, you can very often go with them wherever they want to go, and you will still end up with them at the end of the night.

Or, if you're out by yourself and it's just you, and you approach a pair or a trio of girls and they roll you into their circle and one of the girls gloms onto you and the others approve and give you your space, this can be an implied "stick with her and we'll help you two get laid" scenario. In this one, the other girls will generally lead, and your girl will do things like clear it with you ("My friends want to go to X bar - is that okay?") and you just smile and say sure and be agreeable, and once the night is over the two of you will end up alone and sleeping together.

On the other hand, if you're meeting up with two girls who are only moderately interested and they are not coupling up with you and your friend, the better bet is usually trying to bend their plans to have them go along with yours, OR trading cells with them to meet up later.

The former would be something like:

• Girl 1: We're going to X bar to meet up with the rest of your friends.
  
  You: How many of your friends are there and what's the plan?
  
  Girl 2: There's a big group. They're actually not super close friends of ours but there wasn't anything else to do!
  
  You: Got it. So is this a really exciting thing you guys are super looking forward to or something?
  
  Girl 2: Not really. Girl 1 just wanted to get out of the house and I said well I know these people who are throwing a party.
  
  You: Hmm, that's interesting. Well you know, I've been to X bar a bunch of times and it's always fun for the first half hour or so, but it's a small place and unless you have the most interesting company in the world it tends to get boring fast after that.
  
  Girl 2: That's definitely true.
  
  You: Tell you what. Geoff and I were going to go to another bar, but that one's just okay too, like X bar - why don't the four of us just ditch these bars and go grab a drink at Y lounge right up the road? It's really cool, good music, chill place, and if you want to go later you can always head back to X bar and I'm sure your friends will all still be there.
  
  Girl 2: Okay, that could be fun. Girl 1, do you want to go with these guys?
  
  You: I'm Lingua and that's Cliff, by the way.
  
  Girl 1: I'm Stacy. She's Beth. Yeah, sure, it could be fun. One drink?
  
  You: We'll do one, and the rest we'll play by ear.
  
  Girl 2: Let's go!

That's if they're not super set on their plans, which happens more often than you might think (and it's amazing how the tighter your fundamentals become, the less set women's plans seem to be as well).

However, if they are super set on their plans and they're not otherwise opening up a huge amount to you, you can do this:

• Girl 1: We're going to X bar to meet up with the rest of your friends.
  
  You: How many of your friends are there and what's the plan?
  
  Girl 2: A couple of our friends are out and we're all going to partyyyy!
  
  You: Got it. So is this a really exciting thing you guys are super looking forward to or something?
  
  Girl 1: Oh yeah! Party par-tayyyyy!
  
  You: [laughs] Fun times. Well, I'll tell you what, my pal and I are in for a bit of a lower key night and I think X bar would make the toes of our socks curl up right now... but let's trade cells and reconnect later. Maybe we'll get something going on.
  
  Girl 2: Okay!

The play here is you've got girls in party mode who are going to be all over the place, they're going to be getting validated by their friends, they're going to attract tons of male attention, and you're going to have to hang around all night and are basically in the "defender" position trying to not lose them to the music or their friends or other guys (unless you're just there to party too, in which case it's "Let's see what happens", but the prospects of you hooking up with either of the girls you initially approached are not so great most of the time here). Which of course rarely ends well, and usually means a wasted night for you.

So what you do in this case is trade numbers with them, let them get all the partying out of their system, let the other guys at the club raise their buying temperatures to the point where they're just about ready to hop into bed with a guy, if only they could find the right guy... and then lo, those two cool guys they met earlier text them at the end of the night wondering if they've already called it a night or if they want to come to an after party.

Hook up time.

So, my recommendations would be Doctor some of the time, Estate others, going by this:

• If they're coupling up and getting close with you but are set on a certain place, it can be okay to go, especially if it isn't a huge party with lots of distraction where you're headed

• If they're not coupling up with you or it's a giant party they're going to, try to pull them somewhere else - particularly if they show you they're not completely sold on the place and are open to being pulled elsewhere by sexy, confident men

• If they're not coupling up with you or it's a giant party they're going to, and they're set on going there, don't try to dissuade them; just trade numbers with them, and reconnect with them later after you've let all the other men they meet all night do all the work priming the pump for a hook up for you

Chase