Good Feedback with Closed Body Language

[Frost]

So last night I was out with a girl (I've been trying to set a date for like 2 weeks and every time something came up) who is quite into me. During the date (I took her to a bar where there was a band playing blues music, the place is really good for a date, although I think a concert on a first date wasn't that good of an idea) she was responding really well to my touch, and we were having a lot of fun, but the whole time (even after the date when were sitting in the car talking before leaving) I felt that her body language was not really open towards me. It's like she was shy or unsure about opening up (she's not a shy girl) but I should mention that I could have done better with my touch escalation; I used protective touch when moving around the bar, during the concert we first were sitting with arms touching each other, then I wrapped my arm around her and pulled her towards me, she didn't resist and complied pretty well, but she also didn't get much closer (didn't pull her all the way towards me, to give her a chance to go the other half of the way) and while walking to the car I had my arm around her waist and again it was all taken without the slightest hint of discomfort.

When we got in the car I put some calm music and we started talking. Everything was going well except that she wasn't turning to face me, she was facing forward pretty much all the time, so I decided to not to try a kiss.

As I was dropping her at her place, I got out of the car and hugged her goodbye with a kiss on the cheek. We kind of drafted a plan for a next date this weekend, which she was really looking forward to. Again hug and kiss and she left (this was probably my chance to kiss her but I don't know why I didn't do it).

So why do you think was her body language closed even though she really seems to like me and want to see me again? Do you think I missed an escalation window (usually when you do the girl goes cold on you, but that didn't happen)? Should I have built more rapport and comfort first?

 

[ray_zorse]

It seems your concern is (a) she didn't invest by moving closer when you had your arm around her and (b) she faced forward while talking in the car. I wouldn't worry too much about these things. In the first case I would have just said "hey, come here" and put my hand on her hip and physically slid her closer to me. In the second case I would have tried for some handholding, and if this succeeded I would perhaps have tried to turn her face towards me by my open palm on her cheek, however, I get that in-car escalation can be pretty awkward if she isn't investing in it. So it might be better to give her some instructions such as unbuttoning your cuff and touching your wrist or something of that nature, to get things started. As to kissing her on the lips goodbye, I wouldn't advise this, it's best not to begin physically escalating unless you plan to close the deal, otherwise she goes cold.
Ray

 

[Frost]

Thanks ray_zorse for your feedback. Handholding seems like a good idea, I'll try it the next time I see her (although hand holding isn't really my thing, it feels off to me, but I don't have a problem with touch in general).

I also have a different question. We keep saying on GC that you should hit escalation windows and if you miss you usually lose the girl. Could it be that sometimes on a date for example there was no escalation window like this? In my case after we were talking in the car and I saw that the escalation just wasn't working, I said let's go and I drove her home, while continuing to talk normally afterwards as if the "let's go" wasn't a big deal (and it wasn't, since I didn't let the conversation drift off and get awkward before I said it) and you know the rest from the original post. What do you think?

 

[ray_zorse]

Yes. If you miss a window (as in a tangible moment where you could have moved things forward, like the conversation came to a natural pause and she said "it's getting a bit late" and you didn't say "let's get out of here")... she crashes hard. But similar things happen due to failed escalations or moving too slow. Basically, if you don't make your own opportunities to lead forward and escalate she goes cold on you, it's just a bit more gradual. The thing that's happening is the same in all cases though, you lose value (didn't have the balls to escalate) and attainability (didn't care enough to escalate).
Ray

 

[Frost]

Since I didn't escalate on the first date I will definitely go for it on the second date (my only option is the back of my car) using the DiCarlo escalation ladder. However, most girls in my country are quite conservative (virginity is still important to some people), so if I escalate past making out but didn't seal the deal completely (due to resistance), where does that leave me? In this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11509 it's been pointed out that only making out on a date will hurt your chances pretty bad.