Got the just friends speech, ready to move on but want some opinion

[justfriends]

Just got the "just friends" speech from a girl, absolutely ready to walk away but just want to confirm with the experts that I'm not missing anything.

Been taking latin dance classes with this absolutely banger of a girl for some time now and have been taking things slow as per social circle rules. I make it a point to flirt with everyone in class in front of her and often intentionally dance with others before I ask her so as to not make her feel extra special. We touch each other a lot in class but started noticing her finding excuses to touch me especially when she has a drink. She pulled the "I never knew you were this fun" comment one day. I brush it aside because I was in a situationship at that point in time.

A couple of weeks ago I got extremely frustrated with the situationship and this wonderful girl sensed it and tried to get me to talk about it over a meal which she paid for. I don't know what came over me but I started to rant to her about all the negative things I was feeling with the other girl. She starts talking about her experiences with the handful of guys she's been dating and lamenting that none of them want to move things quickly. This went on for a couple of weeks, where she would constantly tell me I should move on because I deserved better but me being too stubborn to notice what was in front of me all this while.

Anyway I noticed I was falling more and more for her as the days go by which cumulated in me deciding to just shoot the shot today. Dropped the bombshell while we were chatting about other stuff and got the "just see you as a good friend" speech. But while her mouth was saying one thing her actions were saying something completely different. She started playing with her hair while staring into the distance, getting super touchy, putting her hands all over me, poking my muscles and asking if I worked out. This goes on for at least 15 mins during which obviously I reciprocate. Eventually I get frustrated with the teasing and I grabbed her hands and looked her in the eyes and asked her if she ever thought about kissing me. Obviously she says no but looks at me and says "you're thinking about kissing me aren't you?" I continue to look in her eyes and say "yea, I just want to see if there's a connection. Just one kiss and we walk away if there's nothing." She sighs, playfully says "you're awful", iterates that we're still only friends, then leans in for a long kiss.

The night ends there because she needs to wake up early and I obviously dragged the night out for too long. Before we parted ways I asked if she'd be willing to go on a proper date with me and she said she'll consider going on an "outing" but only if she's still single in a couple of weeks.

I'm absolutely ok to walk away or even cut off contact completely now that I've had the "closure" I needed but I don't know if I'm missing out on any signals. Was this a one off incident of her deciding to let loose or is there more to it than meets the eye? This is a great girl with extremely rare traits that I have not encountered in my daily life for years and I don't want to be the one to slam the door shut if she actually left it slightly open.

 

[BIGGUS DICKUS: PUSSY MAN]

Asking for a date while she was leaving kinda fucked up the frame.

Because now if you text and pursue her, it will be framed as you chasing

she gave you a pretty crappy maybe

I mean “only if I’m single in a couple weeks” Is implying something more like “yeah sure but only if I haven’t fucked any other guys since then, which might happen”

I know it sucks

If you had just let her leave then followed up over text the next day, then no one’s chasing no one, you two are just talking

I mean you could keep pursuing her, but she doesn’t seem to value you very highly, so it’s not a strong lead

You seem very invested in her, so if you do go forward with trying to get her, you’d have to loosen some of the attachment. This will make you more confident able to take risks less emotional etc. which are all good for seducing.

Because at the present time, if you don’t change your mentality, I can see you making mistakes

maybe double texting or getting upset when she tests you

just small things that can result from being too attached to a girl who doesn’t fully reciprocate

If I were you, I would approach other women while still going for this girl

try to create abundance mentality

maybe her text her two do days after this happened, put a little space between it because she gave you that maybe

So she’s in your dance class?

I’d say just act like yourself in dance class, calibrate toward her after you two are back in class together

try to mirror her investment levels in person and over text, this goes back to NLP

capitalize on high points to take things further

Like touching her after she laughs at one of your jokes (hand on her shoulder or something)

When you get an especially high peak in emotions or interest, you ask her out again

This time when she goes to back your place, your don’t ask for permission to kiss her

You take a risk and go for it because that’s what men do

There’s plenty of articles on how to escalate on GC

But yeah i’d say the two main things to focus on:

1. Mentality (She’s just another girl)
2. Escalation (Capitalize on high points)

But best of luck wherever you try to take this,

Biggus

 

[justfriends]

she gave you a pretty crappy maybe

I mean “only if I’m single in a couple weeks” Is implying something more like “yeah sure but only if I haven’t fucked any other guys since then, which might happen”

Just for clarification, I'm the one that propositioned the later date because I will be travelling and I also thought it would be nice to create some space between us. This of course runs the risk of other guys moving forward during the window.

You seem very invested in her, so if you do go forward with trying to get her, you’d have to loosen some of the attachment. This will make you more confident able to take risks less emotional etc. which are all good for seducing.

Because at the present time, if you don’t change your mentality, I can see you making mistakes

maybe double texting or getting upset when she tests you

Our texts have been very sparse as I've been very careful to keep our interactions only to our face to face before/during/after classes

I’d say just act like yourself in dance class, calibrate toward her after you two are back in class together

Unfortunately will have to take a break from classes for a couple of weeks as I will be travelling. Wondering if I should shoot her messages of random things I see on my trip.

try to mirror her investment levels in person and over text, this goes back to NLP

This is definitely mirrored. She's very responsive in person and I mirror that but she's distant over text so I cut the replies as well.

This time when she goes to back your place, your don’t ask for permission to kiss her

You take a risk and go for it because that’s what men do

I did consider just going for the kiss but was trying to frame it that she was the one initiating. Obviously failed spectacularly in getting her to admit that she ever thought about it but somehow she still made the move on her own anyway.

 

[TomInHo]

it’s pretty obvious

She is seeing some other guy that she hopes will turn serious but is taking too long. And she doesn’t want to hookup with you because it might jeopardize her standing with the current dude

Aka you’re in backup mode

Just play it off like it’s no big deal and keep being laidback, warm and flirtatious with her but dial back on the attention and give her less than you were prior.

When her situation clears up she will probably open up another window for you and you can take it then

But right now put her on the back burner and pursue other girls that are crazy about you that won’t put you in romantic limbo. As a bonus if she finds out you’re hooking up with other sexy girls and not pressing her for more, don’t be surprised if she starts chasing you hard

 

[DarkKnight]

This is a great girl with extremely rare traits that I have not encountered in my daily life for years and I don't want to be the one to slam the door shut if she actually left it slightly open.

Easy... you are valuing her a bit too much and it definitely leaks out from your behavior. Your username is also kind of telling. If we know, she knows.

she said she'll consider going on an "outing" but only if she's still single in a couple of weeks.

How charming (sarcasm)

Put priority on yourself, game more girls and deprioritize her. Perhaps you use ball in your court and then move on, but I would definitely not just wait for her to make a decision while she just told you she is sampling other options.

If you feel she is truly that special of a person:

Meet more girls

 

[Will_V]

Just got the "just friends" speech from a girl, absolutely ready to walk away but just want to confirm with the experts that I'm not missing anything.

Been taking latin dance classes with this absolutely banger of a girl for some time now and have been taking things slow as per social circle rules. I make it a point to flirt with everyone in class in front of her and often intentionally dance with others before I ask her so as to not make her feel extra special. We touch each other a lot in class but started noticing her finding excuses to touch me especially when she has a drink. She pulled the "I never knew you were this fun" comment one day. I brush it aside because I was in a situationship at that point in time.

A couple of weeks ago I got extremely frustrated with the situationship and this wonderful girl sensed it and tried to get me to talk about it over a meal which she paid for. I don't know what came over me but I started to rant to her about all the negative things I was feeling with the other girl. She starts talking about her experiences with the handful of guys she's been dating and lamenting that none of them want to move things quickly. This went on for a couple of weeks, where she would constantly tell me I should move on because I deserved better but me being too stubborn to notice what was in front of me all this while.

Anyway I noticed I was falling more and more for her as the days go by which cumulated in me deciding to just shoot the shot today. Dropped the bombshell while we were chatting about other stuff and got the "just see you as a good friend" speech. But while her mouth was saying one thing her actions were saying something completely different. She started playing with her hair while staring into the distance, getting super touchy, putting her hands all over me, poking my muscles and asking if I worked out. This goes on for at least 15 mins during which obviously I reciprocate. Eventually I get frustrated with the teasing and I grabbed her hands and looked her in the eyes and asked her if she ever thought about kissing me. Obviously she says no but looks at me and says "you're thinking about kissing me aren't you?" I continue to look in her eyes and say "yea, I just want to see if there's a connection. Just one kiss and we walk away if there's nothing." She sighs, playfully says "you're awful", iterates that we're still only friends, then leans in for a long kiss.

The night ends there because she needs to wake up early and I obviously dragged the night out for too long. Before we parted ways I asked if she'd be willing to go on a proper date with me and she said she'll consider going on an "outing" but only if she's still single in a couple of weeks.

I'm absolutely ok to walk away or even cut off contact completely now that I've had the "closure" I needed but I don't know if I'm missing out on any signals. Was this a one off incident of her deciding to let loose or is there more to it than meets the eye? This is a great girl with extremely rare traits that I have not encountered in my daily life for years and I don't want to be the one to slam the door shut if she actually left it slightly open.

The way I see it the problem here is your frame control when it comes to building attraction with this girl. Essentially you have escalated things in these 3 steps:

1. Ranting about your ex
2. Asking for a kiss
3. Asking for a date

This is the kind of process that guys go through who are not really in control of their situation and emotions. At this point she is probably unsure whether you even like her that much or you are rebounding/desperate.

You need to go back to square 1 and start to actually seduce this girl, make her want you and have to reach for you. Your investment relative to hers right now is off the charts. Somehow you have to pull yourself out of your emotional nosedive, get your life and vibe squared away, and stop giving her attention simply as a way to make yourself feel better. Talk to other girls, give yourself some options, and then stoke things slowly while getting reciprocation and investment from her.

 

[Skills]

The way I see it the problem here is your frame control when it comes to building attraction with this girl. Essentially you have escalated things in these 3 steps:

1. Ranting about your ex
2. Asking for a kiss
3. Asking for a date

This is the kind of process that guys go through who are not really in control of their situation and emotions. At this point she is probably unsure whether you even like her that much or you are rebounding/desperate.

You need to go back to square 1 and start to actually seduce this girl, make her want you and have to reach for you. Your investment relative to hers right now is off the charts. Somehow you have to pull yourself out of your emotional nosedive, get your life and vibe squared away, and stop giving her attention simply as a way to make yourself feel better. Talk to other girls, give yourself some options, and then stoke things slowly while getting reciprocation and investment from her.

Will got the right diagnosis... You may have had mutual attraction and sexual tension but your converting her was extremely poor game/attractive behaviors..... Re read will_v answer multiple times, you were doing civilian type/beta type normie needy game, it was awful execution....


this is what you did dude

 

[OldGuy]

She is telling you to break up with another girl (she wants you); telling you she wants guys to go faster, and you are... You should read some of Chase's articles on auto-rejection, which she is at least close to.

 

[TomInHo]

She is telling you to break up with another girl (she wants you); telling you she wants guys to go faster, and you are... You should read some of Chase's articles on auto-rejection, which she is at least close to.

She definitely ain’t saying that and he’ll be a moron to dump fo sho pussy for new friend zoning pussy

 

[Will_V]

She is telling you to break up with another girl (she wants you); telling you she wants guys to go faster, and you are... You should read some of Chase's articles on auto-rejection, which she is at least close to.

Chase says here:

Autorejection. If you’ve just tuned in, that’s when a girl feels like she can’t get you... So rejects you before you reject her.

Given that op asked for a kiss and kissed her (for probably way too long) and then asked for a date which she stalled on, I don't think she's thinking he's about to reject her.

She might be uncertain as to whether he really likes her or is just emotional atm, but that's not typical auto rejection, and it's not going to be fixed by him investing even more.

In a typical situation you want to move quite fast with girls but my reading of this situation is that he cornered himself by showing way too much interest in a fairly needy way, so he has no choice but to pull back and make her feel like he's not emotionally orbiting around her. It's a tricky situation because he already kissed her and ramped things up so there's always a good chance she will autoreject if he pulls away. It's a catch 22 and you don't have much space to work with.

Personally what I would do is spin the 'just friends' thing on her, be nice to her and maybe apologize and say something like 'I got carried away with my emotions, I don't want you to feel like I'm just rebounding with you, we can be friends' so she doesn't feel bad about what she already did with him, and then just start teasing and seducing her in a much more attractive way. There's no guarantees though.

 

[Skills]

Chase says here:



Given that op asked for a kiss and kissed her (for probably way too long) and then asked for a date which she stalled on, I don't think she's thinking he's about to reject her.

She might be uncertain as to whether he really likes her or is just emotional atm, but that's not typical auto rejection, and it's not going to be fixed by him investing even more.

In a typical situation you want to move quite fast with girls but my reading of this situation is that he cornered himself by showing way too much interest in a fairly needy way, so he has no choice but to pull back and make her feel like he's not emotionally orbiting around her. It's a tricky situation because he already kissed her and ramped things up so there's always a good chance she will autoreject if he pulls away. It's a catch 22 and you don't have much space to work with.

Personally what I would do is spin the 'just friends' thing on her, be nice to her and maybe apologize and say something like 'I got carried away with my emotions, I don't want you to feel like I'm just rebounding with you, we can be friends if you want' so she doesn't feel bad about what she already did with him, and then just start teasing and seducing her in a much more attractive way. There's no guarantees though.

yea good strategy agree to the friend zoning just like you say, that takes the pressure off, and maybe make her chase (like wtf, he wants me as friends to, he does not want me).... I actually done similar and has worked, but the second time around i was actually doing good game..... This typically happens with onitis most times like op... the lack of control, bad chump game etc.. Again, totally happened to me with my 10 year ex, that is how i found the community... But again the second time you actually have to seduce correct...

 

[justfriends]

The way I see it the problem here is your frame control when it comes to building attraction with this girl. Essentially you have escalated things in these 3 steps:

1. Ranting about your ex
2. Asking for a kiss
3. Asking for a date

This is the kind of process that guys go through who are not really in control of their situation and emotions. At this point she is probably unsure whether you even like her that much or you are rebounding/desperate.

You need to go back to square 1 and start to actually seduce this girl, make her want you and have to reach for you. Your investment relative to hers right now is off the charts. Somehow you have to pull yourself out of your emotional nosedive, get your life and vibe squared away, and stop giving her attention simply as a way to make yourself feel better. Talk to other girls, give yourself some options, and then stoke things slowly while getting reciprocation and investment from her.

Yep, ranting was absolutely as a mistake but back then this girl had such great insights that I lost sight of my purpose. It was only later on that I realised I was starting to view her as a viable partner that I started to regret where I took things initially. I acknowledge that I started to panic and tried to fix things while having no control of my emotions which led to many mistakes that I should not have made.

Personally what I would do is spin the 'just friends' thing on her, be nice to her and maybe apologize and say something like 'I got carried away with my emotions, I don't want you to feel like I'm just rebounding with you, we can be friends' so she doesn't feel bad about what she already did with him, and then just start teasing and seducing her in a much more attractive way. There's no guarantees though.

I'm ok with doing a complete reset in our interactions but are you talking about this in hindsight as something I should have done there and then or is this something that I can still pull off the next day?

yea good strategy agree to the friend zoning just like you say, that takes the pressure off, and maybe make her chase (like wtf, he wants me as friends to, he does not want me).... I actually done similar and has worked, but the second time around i was actually doing good game..... This typically happens with onitis most times like op... the lack of control, bad chump game etc.. Again, totally happened to me with my 10 year ex, that is how i found the community... But again the second time you actually have to seduce correct...

Do I shoot her a text about last night or just bring it up the next time I see her (which I actually have no idea when it will be). Or is this a two phase thing where I reiterate we're friends and then seduce her the next time we bump into each other?

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm going to be honest.. reversing bad precedence like this usually takes some real skill and frame control. Usually when guys are this invested it goes south anyway. There is a reason you got in this position and it is not knowing what you are doing...

At this level I would focus on more women (what you should anyway because girls change their moods from day to day)

Also you view this girl as superior to what you are used to getting... this leads to involuntary pedestalizing

@Will_V Has great tactics but I honestly doubt you have the level of frame control (yet) to pull this off as you admit even having panicked about this girl.

Perhaps game her for educational purposes but honestly when guys have not moved on emotionally they tend to HALF ASS with new girls.

 

[Will_V]

I'm ok with doing a complete reset in our interactions but are you talking about this in hindsight as something I should have done there and then or is this something that I can still pull off the next day?

I told you what I would do next if I were you. The example I gave was a way to pull back without sending her into autorejection (since she already kissed you, if you simply pull away now she's likely to feel embarrassed about it all on top of being doubtful about you).

If you say 'I got carried away with my emotions, I don't want you to feel like I'm rebounding with you, we can be friends' or your version thereof, this accomplishes:

1. You validate her (probably) biggest concern, i.e. that you are trying to rebound with her
2. You take responsibility for what happened while giving yourself a reason to pull back, i.e. she's not to blame for the error
3. You show you understand what rebound is and that you've done it so many times you know how it makes a girl feel, showing understanding of women which is the opposite of what needy guys do
4. You show non-neediness by not clutching onto the possibility of a date

The result ideally is that she feels no embarrassment and gets intrigued and excited by this sudden turn of events and starts chasing or giving more opportunities. But you never know for sure, maybe she made up her mind already.

 

[justfriends]

I told you what I would do next if I were you. The example I gave was a way to pull back without sending her into autorejection (since she already kissed you, if you simply pull away now she's likely to feel embarrassed about it all on top of being doubtful about you).

If you say 'I got carried away with my emotions, I don't want you to feel like I'm rebounding with you, we can be friends' or your version thereof, this accomplishes:

1. You validate her (probably) biggest concern, i.e. that you are trying to rebound with her
2. You take responsibility for what happened while giving yourself a reason to pull back, i.e. she's not to blame for the error
3. You show you understand what rebound is and that you've done it so many times you know how it makes a girl feel, showing understanding of women which is the opposite of what needy guys do
4. You show non-neediness by not clutching onto the possibility of a date

The result ideally is that she feels no embarrassment and gets intrigued and excited by this sudden turn of events and starts chasing or giving more opportunities. But you never know for sure, maybe she made up her mind already.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense. I will do just that. Is this supposed to be a short casual text kind of thing or something with more detail?

My initial read of the situation was that she was in denial and didn't want to consider the possibility of something more with me as she was way too invested in another guy. I sensed genuine confusion from her initially as she tried to process the possibility of any feelings before she tried to shut them down. Me stepping out of the picture for some time would give her space to figure things out but I'm wondering if calling her out for not confronting her feelings would be a bad idea?

 

[Will_V]

Thanks that makes a lot of sense. I will do just that. Is this supposed to be a short casual text kind of thing or something with more detail?

My initial read of the situation was that she was in denial and didn't want to consider the possibility of something more with me as she was way too invested in another guy. I sensed genuine confusion from her initially as she tried to process the possibility of any feelings before she tried to shut them down. Me stepping out of the picture for some time would give her space to figure things out but I'm wondering if calling her out for not confronting her feelings would be a bad idea?

I always try to avoid giving out specific advice because guys tend to think everything is mathematically procedural and you can just say some pickup line or send some text and it always has the same effect.

In reality seduction is art, there are no procedures, only principles. This is why it's so necessary to remain chill and enjoy yourself with women as you will inevitably end up making false moves here and there that you have to zig zag your way out of, and the only way you can do that is if you have an unshakeable confidence in your ability to read the situation at least two or three moves ahead and position accordingly.

On top of that I don't know the exact situation, I don't have any of the finer details that are right in front of you. Not all women are the same, or are in the same headspace at all times. That's why my approach to these things is to identify a clear error of principle (which in this case is neediness) and prescribe a loose idea of what to do about it.

So I don't want you to copy words from me that aren't your own, or try to write some message or say something you don't really understand. You should never fully trust any teacher over your own intuition, a teacher can help you with your ignorance of the core principles, but cannot replace your instincts.

If you think she's still hot for you and somehow the only thing in the way is the other dude, and that overall she responded well to your being direct, then perhaps you could send something like: 'Hey I got carried away with my emotions, don't want you to feel like I'm just looking for a rebound. I really felt a genuine chemistry with you. But we can be friends '. So now you are pulling back a little to give her space, but making it clear you are still in the game.

Now if you just copy and paste directly it probably won't work, but if you write something similar that is of your own expression, you will probably get some kind of positive reaction from her. But again, shape it with your own instincts, don't rely on someone else to craft your self expression. If you truly understand the principles, and don't impulsively send texts out of neediness, what you send will have as good a chance as anything of working out.

 

[Skills]

Thanks that makes a lot of sense. I will do just that. Is this supposed to be a short casual text kind of thing or something with more detail?

My initial read of the situation was that she was in denial and didn't want to consider the possibility of something more with me as she was way too invested in another guy. I sensed genuine confusion from her initially as she tried to process the possibility of any feelings before she tried to shut them down. Me stepping out of the picture for some time would give her space to figure things out but I'm wondering if calling her out for not confronting her feelings would be a bad idea?

Dude no need to call her out, yea bad idea..... Pouring your heart out is no needed... Finally, i would read some type of basic seduction book (dunno what to recommend maybe double your dating David d. something basic)

 

[justfriends]

I always try to avoid giving out specific advice because guys tend to think everything is mathematically procedural and you can just say some pickup line or send some text and it always has the same effect.

In reality seduction is art, there are no procedures, only principles. This is why it's so necessary to remain chill and enjoy yourself with women as you will inevitably end up making false moves here and there that you have to zig zag your way out of, and the only way you can do that is if you have an unshakeable confidence in your ability to read the situation at least two or three moves ahead and position accordingly.

On top of that I don't know the exact situation, I don't have any of the finer details that are right in front of you. Not all women are the same, or are in the same headspace at all times. That's why my approach to these things is to identify a clear error of principle (which in this case is neediness) and prescribe a loose idea of what to do about it.

So I don't want you to copy words from me that aren't your own, or try to write some message or say something you don't really understand. You should never fully trust any teacher over your own intuition, a teacher can help you with your ignorance of the core principles, but cannot replace your instincts.

If you think she's still hot for you and somehow the only thing in the way is the other dude, and that overall she responded well to your being direct, then perhaps you could send something like: 'Hey I got carried away with my emotions, don't want you to feel like I'm just looking for a rebound. I really felt a genuine chemistry with you. But we can be friends '. So now you are pulling back a little to give her space, but making it clear you are still in the game.

Now if you just copy and paste directly it probably won't work, but if you write something similar that is of your own expression, you will probably get some kind of positive reaction from her. But again, shape it with your own instincts, don't rely on someone else to craft your self expression. If you truly understand the principles, and don't impulsively send texts out of neediness, what you send will have as good a chance as anything of working out.

I sent a variation of your text today giving an excuse for pulling out of her life. Got a reply thanking me for being honest and reaffirming the lack of reciprocal feelings. I guess I had the wrong read after all or I missed the escalation window.

Going to be a hard road ahead as I really value her insight in a lot of things. Is there any way to keep her around platonically before making a move again months down the road?

 

[Will_V]

I sent a variation of your text today giving an excuse for pulling out of her life. Got a reply thanking me for being honest and reaffirming the lack of reciprocal feelings. I guess I had the wrong read after all or I missed the escalation window.

Going to be a hard road ahead as I really value her insight in a lot of things. Is there any way to keep her around platonically before making a move again months down the road?

Sorry to hear that man. I suggest reading this.

 

[Skills]

I sent a variation of your text today giving an excuse for pulling out of her life. Got a reply thanking me for being honest and reaffirming the lack of reciprocal feelings. I guess I had the wrong read after all or I missed the escalation window.

Going to be a hard road ahead as I really value her insight in a lot of things. Is there any way to keep her around platonically before making a move again months down the road?

Though i did agree with the strategy i personally would not have sent that text....