handling an informal complaint at work - female colleague

[weekendwarrior]

hi guys i work with a chick that actively asks me about my relationships and has now filed an informal complaint about feeling uncomfortable with these conversations.

i know better than to kiss and tell, i didn't disclose much information and didn't go into detail. she would initiate the conversation "how's your love life? what's the latest?" then give her opinions or relate/share information about her relationships.

i've been pulled into the office by management for an informal discussion. i've been given the write up of the conversation that looks much worse than it was, including things that weren't mentioned in the conversation.

i was just going to accept it and sign it off but i now feel like addressing these points weren't mentioned in our conversation and if she felt uncomfortable she shouldn't have initiated, shouldn't have asked questions and shouldn't have took an active interest/contributed to the conversation. this would be said to management, i will be blanking the chick entirely for causing unnecessary drama.

Warrior

 

[Will_V]

hi guys i work with a chick that actively asks me about my relationships and has now filed an informal complaint about feeling uncomfortable with these conversations.

i know better than to kiss and tell, i didn't disclose much information and didn't go into detail. she would initiate the conversation "how's your love life? what's the latest?" then give her opinions or relate/share information about her relationships.

i've been pulled into the office by management for an informal discussion. i've been given the write up of the conversation that looks much worse than it was, including things that weren't mentioned in the conversation.

i was just going to accept it and sign it off but i now feel like addressing these points weren't mentioned in our conversation and if she felt uncomfortable she shouldn't have initiated, shouldn't have asked questions and shouldn't have took an active interest/contributed to the conversation. this would be said to management, i will be blanking the chick entirely for causing unnecessary drama.

Warrior

You definitely want them to know exactly what happened, and you don't want to be accepting anything whatsoever that isn't true. If she lied about something point it out very clearly.

Whenever it comes to reputation defense you need to build up a lot of evidence in case anything goes really south (which is very unlikely but you never know). Whoever ends up judging things will tend to trust whatever story is clearest, most consistent, and most detailed. If you accept something that isn't true early on, you might have to reject it later and then it looks like you aren't being honest, and where else were you not being honest?

 

[weekendwarrior]

thanks @Will_V it is true that we discussed relationships, what isn't true is the manager worded it "conversation topics made her feel uncomfortable" in the write up it clearly specifies "relationships" which was not mentioned in our conversation so it is not an accurate representation.

if she'd have mentioned "relationships" in the informal conversation i'd have probably mentioned that she initiated such conversations and so i thought she was comfortable discussing this. though i do feel this has been blown out of proportion and made a bigger deal than it should already without having to defend having a conversation.

the write up reads as if i have been socially uncalibrated and had inappropriate conversations with her, making her feel comfortable but continued further with the topics. if she initiates, asks questions, takes an active interest and contributes to the conversation she seems very comfortable with this which is why the conversations happened.

Warrior

 

[Will_V]

if she initiates, asks questions, takes an active interest and contributes to the conversation she seems very comfortable with this which is why the conversations happened.

Well then this is what they need to know, it's the most important dimension to the problem.

 

[Bismarck]

JOOC where is this taking place? A continent will suffice, if you want to keep your precise location private.

 

[Train]

Don't accept it. Write up your own perspective of what happened. Get witnesses from the same company that have worked with you that can further boost your rep. Even better if the witnesses have seen you and the girl together and she's ok with your presence or she actively seeks you out or she's bringing up these topics. Get any recorded convos showing she's initiating often or chasing you if you can.

Avoid verbal conversations with this girl if you can. Always do them in the open or with a third party you trust if possible. Keep convos on paper via IM or email.

I knew a guy in a similar position to you. He was this close to being escorted out of the building and maybe even fired. He provided evidence like @Will_V said through texts he recorded and witnesses of his character and he saved his reputation and job.

Worst thing you can do is sign it off. You're just letting her rail you for no reason. Don't turn the other cheek unless this is just a whatever job that doesn't matter for your career.

 

[weekendwarrior]

JOOC where is this taking place? A continent will suffice, if you want to keep your precise location private.

@Bismarck this is happening in wales

Warrior

 

[Will_V]

I knew a guy in a similar position to you. He was this close to being escorted out of the building and maybe even fired. He provided evidence like @Will_V said through texts he recorded and witnesses of his character and he saved his reputation and job.

Good point about witnesses, if other people are around and can see you two having conversations it's a good idea to see where their minds are at (without mentioning the incident of course) just by bringing up the conversations indirectly and seeing if their frame coincides with yours. If they can vouch for you if push comes to shove that would be good, though you can never depend on anyone who isn't a real friend to stick their neck out for you.

Worst thing you can do is sign it off. You're just letting her rail you for no reason. Don't turn the other cheek unless this is just a whatever job that doesn't matter for your career.

Even if it's the lamest job in the world, bad news can follow you around if you don't put it definitively to rest. And the way I look at it it's a good idea to train yourself to always stand up for yourself whenever anything goes wrong, that way you're never in two minds about what to do even when you're not in the mood.

 

[weekendwarrior]

thanks @Train i've got witnesses that have seen the chick is comfortable with me, i've got texts where she has asked to come to the gym with me, but that doesn't necessarily mean she didn't find some topics of conversation uncomfortable.

she actively seeked me out and asked if anyone else was working in the office so she could come in. in the write up it sounds like she's now moved office to put distance between us and not because she's changed job. not once did i tell her she had to work in my office and she could've went anywhere else in the building, she has worked from other rooms before so every time she worked with me it was by choice. unfortunately i've got no witnesses of her asking about the office arrangement to work with me so it's my word against hers.

i have other members of my team that have been in the office and talking about relationships with both of us, though the bulk of the conversation has just been us two so it might not help.

i really don't know where her change of attitude came from, i will not be engaging with her in the future.

Warrior

 

[Train]

Good point about witnesses, if other people are around and can see you two having conversations it's a good idea to see where their minds are at (without mentioning the incident of course) just by bringing up the conversations indirectly and seeing if their frame coincides with yours. If they can vouch for you if push comes to shove that would be good, though you can never depend on anyone who isn't a real friend to stick their neck out for you.

Definitely, good catch, the witnesses my friend used were friends he could rely on. It is something to watch out for if they're aligned with the girl for some reason.

thanks @Train i've got witnesses that have seen the chick is comfortable with me, i've got texts where she has asked to come to the gym with me, but that doesn't necessarily mean she didn't find some topics of conversation uncomfortable.

It still shows a history that you didn't just start talking sex/dating with a random woman at your work you've never met before.

she actively seeked me out and asked if anyone else was working in the office so she could come in. in the write up it sounds like she's now moved office to put distance between us and not because she's changed job. not once did i tell her she had to work in my office and she could've went anywhere else in the building, she has worked from other rooms before so every time she worked with me it was by choice. unfortunately i've got no witnesses of her asking about the office arrangement to work with me so it's my word against hers.

If it's really needed , surveillance cameras may be a lead to follow up on. But doesn't sound like you need it at this point to show she's the one coming to you.

Any way you can capture her seeking you out is important because what "victim" goes out of her way to seek the supposed "aggressor"? It pokes holes in her story.

 

[weekendwarrior]

thanks @Train i don't have any proof of her seeking me out, and there's plausible deniability while i was her line manager. i was asked if she could assist another department while someone has just left their team which i happily obliged and thought she'd be a better fit with the all female team compared to my all male team.

it has now been mentioned she's changed department as a result of this incident. even if this was a factor, it didn't have to be escalated to management if she's got away from the situation, especially if this is an informal conversation/complaint where no further action is taking place, it just smears my character for no real reason.

i was informed of this last night, she wasn't at work yesterday or today and she's very unreliable as to when she works while working zero hours. she hasn't tried to seek me out since without being at work. due to the office she's now working in i doubt she will at least any time soon.

Warrior

 

[Skills]

I talk to a former girl i was seeing that runs hr in a corp. ...i link this post she send me this:

Morning! So, I would recommend that he write a rebuttal statement that tells his side of the story and that he submits the statement back to whoever gave him the informal warning. He should make sure that he mentions that she was asking him those questions first about relationships and he responded to be polite and didn't realize it would make her uncomfortable, since she initiated the conversation.
Just FYI, an informal warning is usually done verbally so the fact that they wrote it down and asked him to sign a statement could mean that it was a little higher than an informal warning. He does not have to sign the written warning (this happens a lot when people refuse to sign) so what will happen is the HR person will write "refused to sign" on the document then will include his rebuttal statement in the packet.
The tricky think about this is that he was her manager and I believe she moved departments because she felt uncomfortable. I would recommend at this point, after he gives the rebuttal statement (if that's is what he chooses to do) that he just lay low and try not to talk to too many people about her or the situation. Since he is a manager he is going to be held at a higher standard of professionalism in this specific incident (we usually tell managers not to discuss too many personal things with their subordinates since any subordinate who is ever mad can bring this up and negatively impact a manager simply because they got a bad review and are seeking revenge) and he will be held at a higher standard going forward so he should especially not talk to his other subordinates about this. Hopefully if he is quiet and lays low it will just go away.
I think the reason the company may have taken this so seriously is because it was not just two coworkers having a conversation, but a manager and a coworker which is seen differently in the corporate world. As I mentioned, managers are held to a higher level of professionalism even when sometimes that doesn't seem fair.

 

[POB]

This is a huge topic now at my workplace.
They produced a 64 page behemoth of a document to "teach us" about it.
It's called: "harassment prevention booklet" (not kidding).

Unfortunately, we live in a world that's upside down and full of the worst crap towards men.
This is one of the few instances where I fully agree with the red pill...
Don't talk about anything that's not work related with your female co-workers, especially if you hold any position above them on the overall hierarchy. And if you can, don't talk to them at all.

 

[Bismarck]

I love my life and, despite, as already discussed elsewhere, living almost like a hermit, a sort of renaissance man "suffering from traditional masculinity ideology" - or whatever the APA calls it these days - "camouflaged" inside the current slightly crazed West, I wouldn't change it for anything.

That said, you have to tread lightly at work. Post-#metoo, we are talking about a highly flammable environment, where flirting with colleagues, especially girls under you in the hierarchy, is dangerous.

As some of you on here already know, I used to collaborate (as a freelancer) with a firm that stopped that collaboration after 7 very successful years over an incident with a staff member during a company dinner (harmless, and part of a wider "conspiracy" to throw me out, but it led to the cessation of my contract nonetheless).

The worst thing that incident did was make me feel self-conscious and guilty of being a "creep," which ultimately was the charge being - albeit without being verbalized - leveled against me. It is no coincidence that the manager directly above me, and the one above her, were both highly feminist (of the anti-male kind, who consider guys who hook up with chicks predators) chicks.

More recently, I started working in an office. Shortly after starting last year, this female colleague (in another team) that I was going to have to collaborate with introduced herself, and asked me if I wanted to have a coffee with her. I said sure, and invited her to the cafeteria downstairs (we work in the same building).

Over coffee - it was 9 a.m., so the start of a work day -, which she paid for, she was outright flirting with me. I could see in her eyes that she was desperate and horny af. To be nice, since she told me on Friday it was her 40th birthday, I invited her on a tour (I was creating a tour of my city at the time, to do as a hobby on weekends).

She showed up for the tour, and there was only one other guest. At the end of the tour, I told her I had to go home, but she wanted to have a drink. I said, "ok but I will have to leave soon." I ordered a tea and she got a beer and sat there looking at me with desire in her eyes. I quickly said I would have to go.

Outside the bar, I said goodbye. She told me "if you don't leave I will kiss you" and she moved in and started making out with me. I was right outside my studio so I could have gone and fucked her in the ass raw. Desperate as this divorced mother of two boys was, I knew I could do whatever I wanted with her. But she is a colleague. My previous incident served as a lesson. I stopped the kiss and told her "This is very flattering, and ordinarily I would be down, but you are my colleague, so, unfortunately, I can't do this." She moved back in and made out with me again. So I simply moved away and left her.

It has also happened at work, that an older Italian colleague (a "cougar") kissed me on the mouth now several times when she greets me. I had no say in the matter LOL.

And yet, if I so much as touch the shoulder of another blonde blue-eyed cougar colleague while we chat (and she is constantly lightly flirting with me, having even offered to set me up with her daughter, who, judging by her mum's genes, must be a bombshell) I look around and her superior is staring at me like a hawk.

Make no mistake Warrior, you have to cut off your balls at the office. You are a eunuch. Bow with your head.

Then, when you leave the office, you can be yourself.

Recently we've had this intern. She's half Lebanese half Sicilian. This girl turns me on to no end. I swear it's like dynamite. I was THIS CLOSE to pushing her against the wall in the kitchen on our floor in the office the other day (the lights were off, and she was calling for me, she was alone there) and making out with her. But I had to control myself. I've invited her to meet outside the office. Her internship ends on 31 July 2023, and they haven't offered her a prolongation, so then she's game.

 

[POB]

Yeah, wait till they are out.
I also hooked up with one or two ex interns after they left.
Outside, fair game. Inside, I have a vagina.

 

[Skills]

Interesting i am super sexual with clients and coworkers... but i mix it with humor and at times overdo the humor on porpuse to kill tension.... never had an issue even innapropiete with the hr lady...ex. she said since you are the top performer pick a restaurant...

I replied " i thought you had a boyfriend"

She laighed and clarified, she did not know i was messing with her..

On valentines in mass email to all the staff... i said "please leave the valentines present in my desk i leave at 8, thanks in advance"

When women dress provokative ",what club are we going to"

When women use very thin material pants i go " oh you have the ati ati ati pants"

When my leg was injured and i was on crutches "can you please help me in the bathroom"

I get away with a lot...when companie parties, " i am not going i dont want you ladoes fighting for me...."

Super inapropiet...i guess humor angle gauging helps and body language reads..

I also when they dont do good work call them incompetent and go into rants... but is fake angry....

But again messing with colleges a nono...

 

[Bismarck]

Is it your bizz Skills? If you’re the CEO it’s different…

 

[Skills]

Is it your bizz Skills? If you’re the CEO it’s different…

No...corporations..

 

[POB]

Interesting i am super sexual with clients and coworkers... but i mix it with humor and at times overdo the humor on porpuse to kill tension.... never had an issue even innapropiete with the hr lady...ex. she said since you are the top performer pick a restaurant...

I replied " i thought you had a boyfriend"

She laighed and clarified, she did not know i was messing with her..

On valentines in mass email to all the staff... i said "please leave the valentines present in my desk i leave at 8, thanks in advance"

When women dress provokative ",what club are we going to"

When women use very thin material pants i go " oh you have the ati ati ati pants"

When my leg was injured and i was on crutches "can you please help me in the bathroom"

I get away with a lot...when companie parties, " i am not going i dont want you ladoes fighting for me...."

Super inapropiet...i guess humor angle gauging helps and body language reads..

I also when they dont do good work call them incompetent and go into rants... but is fake angry....

But again messing with colleges a nono...

Yeah, over here this was cool 5-6 years ago.
Not anymore.
And I see a lot of my male friends having to go through the same shit I'm dealing with.