Handling Objections: Girl says man is "too old"

[Marty]

This very seldom happens to me in cold approach, but I'd like to have a toolkit to deal with it when it does.

Today at about 7 PM I arrived at one of the ice rinks in our city: it's inside a bar/restaurant on the edge of one of the city's major parks. I went there purely for exercise and recreation, not for social reasons, and certainly not expecting to attempt to pick up. I walked through the bar area towards the rink, unfamiliar with the layout. When I got to what looked like the check-in area, the cashier looked at me quizzically from behind the counter, although there were people in front being served. It was pretty obvious what I wanted from the fact that I had my skates slung over my shoulder, but nonetheless I responded to her nonverbal inquiry in an assertive and deep tone, thus:

• Marty: Where do I buy a ticket to the skating rink, please?

She indicated the back of the line. Now it so happens that the family in front was a mother and two (adult?) daughters; I hadn't paid much attention to be honest, this was not the type of group I would ever contemplate opening in any circumstances, and I had no idea what age the girls were. But now I see one of them glance at me briefly and start whispering in her mother's ear. She has long, curly blond hair over her shoulders. Her mom looks back at me and nods her head. Then, out of the blue:

• CurlyBlonde: Are you from England?
  
  Marty: Yes... What about you, where are you from?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Here, but my father's side of the family is from England, that's why I recognized your accent.
  
  Marty: How old are you? (Let's get that out of the way at once! —I'm thinking)
  
  CurlyBlonde: Nineteen.
  
  Marty: Did you say nineteen?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Yes, 19.
  
  Marty: What's your name?
  
  CurlyBlonde: CurlyBlonde.
  
  Marty: Nice to meet you, CurlyBlonde. (taking her hand, smiling) I'm Marty. Is this your mom?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Yes.

Her mom introduces herself and I acknowledge her politely, then turn back to the girl. She starts telling me about her vacations with her grandmother on the English South Coast. We shoot the breeze briefly about this, then as her mom is busy renting skates:

• Marty: So, CurlyBlonde, are you studying?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Yes.
  
  Marty: At university here, in this state?
  
  CurlyBlonde: No... (she names a state on the opposite coast)
  
  Marty: Are you back here for Christmas with your parents?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Yes.
  
  Marty: What do you study?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Psychology.
  
  Marty: Psychology, huh? (wink, smile) I'll bet you can see right through me, can't you?
  
  CurlyBlonde: (laughs)
  
  Marty: Do you want to become a clinical psychologist?

We end the conversation naturally, the mom and girls go off to change into their skates, and I pay my money and go do the same. I start skating. The women are slower to get ready, and I see CurlyBlonde walk past the rink, still on the outside. Mom is nowhere to be seen; sister is somewhere around, but not within earshot as such. I skate to the edge and reengage her:

• Marty: How much longer are you staying in state, CurlyBlonde? When do you go back to the other coast?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Monday. (I assume she means a week on Monday, hardly likely to haul ass before Christmas.)
  
  Marty: That's not very long... Care to grab a coffee before you leave? When you're not with your Mom?
  
  CurlyBlonde: I don't have enough time, sorry. (not leaving though, smiling)
  
  Marty: That busy, huh? Well, why don't you leave me your number in case your schedule frees up a bit?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Okay... but you're too old for me anyway.
  
  Marty: Too old? I'm shocked you could think that! How old do you suppose I am?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Mmmmm... 24, 25 maybe? (This must be some sort of a girl-joke at my expense... I've had this once before. I'm 38 and, though in fine physical shape, in all honesty I look around 43.)
  
  Marty: Now you're kidding me around!
  
  CurlyBlonde: Not at all!
  
  Marty: Okay, so how about giving me that number.
  
  CurlyBlonde: No. ("read-my-lips"–style) You ... are ... too ... old ... for ... me! (departs)

How could I have handled this better? Also, in view of the fact that she essentially opened me, I didn't go direct. Should I have done so and if so, when?

Thanks!
-Marty

 

[Ryan]

In this circumstance, most girls my age seem to focus too much on finding a 'suitable man' (not all, but most). Sex and relationships are still a really big issue and they aren't willing to enter an intimate relationship to someone that doesn't fit their standards. To someone who looks 43 and that girl's mum standing just behind her, no offence, but you're going have to perform a miracle (but that's why we're here, right?).

If you ever encounter a girl like that alone (remember, you're old enough to be her dad! Parents around her will make the atmosphere really awkward), then just make the sexual tension as high as it'll possibly be, disqualify yourself as a boyfriend and prioritise creating a sexual interaction.
Anything less will make her even consider you as a potential boyfriend (which you're clearly not suitable for) and she'll reject it that idea immediately while also rejecting you.

I'm not here to judge, but she was a tad young though.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Reading past the lines, it appears that age wasn't the limiting factor in this engagement. That second conversation she was very shut off and cold, which wasn't exactly an ideal time to go for a date pull. Thus, she gave a polite cold shoulder towards any further interaction. Another sign is that she denies getting coffee before bringing up your age. And you are quite easily derailed by this, as you go completely off track and start taking the objection as a serious thing.

Besides that, the conversation felt very run-of-the-mill. Ask a few questions, give a few normal answers. It doesn't feel like a directed conversation - just kind of like you're pulling questions out of nowhere to keep the conversation going. If I had any advice to give, it'd be to limit conversations to ones that are directed. If you wish to go on a date with her, direct your conversation towards such a thing. Start qualifying, screening, checking logistics, or perhaps go direct. No shame in asking in front of her mother.

 

[Mr.Rob]

I think you failed to pull (a number at least) on a high note. I get that way and don't completely understand how a girl that opens you doesn't just completely trip head over heels for ya but it seems like their wasn't much emotion pique going on when you came back into the picture again the 2nd time. Perhaps you should have tried to keep the good times rolling so to speak.

In retrospect you pretty much re-engaged her to get her number right? Or did I miss something? I think this goes from chasing vs. persisting. It's not chasing when both parties feel it's the right time to invest more. Not that you were chasing but it feels to me you were asking for investment before more investment seemed due. Though it's hard to tell without a clear picture of what the vibe was.

Ahhh, my 2 cents Marty.

-Rob

 

[Marty]

Some great answers here, fellas. Given me a lot to think about.

I think this goes from chasing vs. persisting. It's not chasing when both parties feel it's the right time to invest more.

Fair point, Rob. I'd never really thought about "chasing" as something you can do in person, but I suppose if you want an example of it, this was it. It must have looked awful the way I tried to recover from the initial "no". I'm still shaky on the whole chasing vs. persisting thing... I've read all the articles, of course, many times over and long ago, but it takes a while for me to develop a practical "feel" for things.

Another sign is that she denies getting coffee before bringing up your age. And you are quite easily derailed by this, as you go completely off track and start taking the objection as a serious thing.

Great point, Desert Eagle. I don't know how that happened, but I should have dismissed the objection ("don't be ridiculous") instead of rising to the bait. It shows the problem is down to fundamentals rather than any specific objection: it's the way I present myself that she's rejecting, as Chase would say. The age thing is an irrelevance to get me off of her back once she's denied the initial date request.

If I had any advice to give, it'd be to limit conversations to ones that are directed. If you wish to go on a date with her, direct your conversation towards such a thing. Start qualifying, screening, checking logistics, or perhaps go direct. No shame in asking in front of her mother.

You're right, Desert Eagle. I should have gone direct straight off, in front of the mom. That would have made my intentions abundantly clear as well as rewarding her handsomely for opening me. If I could live that moment in my life again, it'd go something like this:

• CurlyBlonde: Are you from England?
  
  Marty: Yes... What about you, where are you from?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Here, but my father's side of the family is from England, that's why I recognized your accent.
  
  Marty: How old are you?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Nineteen.
  
  Marty: What's your name?
  
  CurlyBlonde: CurlyBlonde.
  
  Marty: You're pretty cute, CurlyBlonde. You have lovely wavy hair. (taking her hand, smiling) I'm Marty. It's good to meet you. Is this your mom?
  
  CurlyBlonde: Yes.

just make the sexual tension as high as it'll possibly be, disqualify yourself as a boyfriend and prioritise creating a sexual interaction.

Great idea, Ryan. I don't know how to do this yet—I'm still learning! Sexual tension is not something I can really visualize right now. Not to worry, hopefully it will come with practice.

Anything less will make her even consider you as a potential boyfriend (which you're clearly not suitable for) and she'll reject it that idea immediately while also rejecting you.

This is the only bit I don't quite get. Why am I unsuitable? Or are you saying I should paint myself as unsuitable?

I'm not here to judge, but she was a tad young though.

Yeah... you can tell from the dialog, right? She was quite immature for 19. I meet quite a few girls her age in cold approach and they are usually a lot more calibrated, smoother conversation, less "run-of-the-mill" and "shut off and cold" as Desert Eagle was saying. "Young for her age", you might call it.

In summary, gentlemen, I'm frequently losing girls at later stages of an interaction when things seemed to begin smoothly. I think this is probably because my fundamentals are very off, causing girls to bail when I try to press matters further or escalate. I've also had occasions when I've gone into the street for an hour, or a grocery store full of girls, and not gotten a single approach invitation. NarrowJ's recent article on fundamentals should be my constant study, I feel.

 

[Ryan]

Anything less will make her even consider you as a potential boyfriend (which you're clearly not suitable for) and she'll reject it that idea immediately while also rejecting you.

This is the only bit I don't quite get. Why am I unsuitable? Or are you saying I should paint myself as unsuitable?

Usually, 19 year old girls have very little, if any, sexual experience (to my knowledge anyway). So they will automatically slot any guy who flirts with them as a 'potential-boyfriend'; they cannot conceive of sleeping with just 'a lover'.
When they look at you, they will imagine how their friends and parents will judge them for having a relationship with a guy old enough to be her dad, and she'll hence consider you unsuitable. But if you could somehow plant an idea into her head that you're just there for one-time sex and nothing else, she may give you a second thought. Which is why it's extra important to disqualify yourself.
Hope that helps

 

[trashKENNUT]

Marty,

About parents is that some daughters do not want their mums to actually see the person they are dating. Even if you did acknowledge her parents, it makes you look "boyfriend material", and probably she didn't want that designation. There's also a possibility where women do not want to disrespect their mothers when they are out together by giving out phone numbers. Who knows her mum is looking at you like a homing missile?

and maybe she just open you because she knows someone from England. My thoughts.

Zac

 

[Marty]

Zac, that's a very good point.

Ryan, you're right. I should never have proposed coffee, it sounds couple-y and date-like. A coffee date is what a boyfriend would do. What would a lover do, I wonder?

Zphix seems to manage it without coffee! And NarrowJ's latest girl actually talked him out of coffee in favor of something a little more suggestive!

I don't even like coffee much

And anyway, Ricardus says you should never paint yourself as a boyfriend candidate, no matter what you actually want! So does Chase, incidentally. I slip up on this almost every time, in one of three ways:

• She declines the date proposal (and by extension phone number) because of the needy relationship-seeking vibe (I don't know where this is coming from)
• She doesn't take my incoming call, or texts me to decline a date
• She accepts the date, we have a great time, but I never hear from her after, because of the apparent BF frame (again, no idea how that got into her head)

This "why don't we grab a coffee if you're free some time this week" line is starting to get old. I don't like it. I might start a separate thread on this after Christmas. The "lover" seems to get there without coffee

 

[Grand Pooba]

Zac, that's a very good point.

Ryan, you're right. I should never have proposed coffee, it sounds couple-y and date-like. A coffee date is what a boyfriend would do. What would a lover do, I wonder?

Zphix seems to manage it without coffee! And NarrowJ's latest girl actually talked him out of coffee in favor of something a little more suggestive!

I don't even like coffee much

And anyway, Ricardus says you should never paint yourself as a boyfriend candidate, no matter what you actually want! So does Chase, incidentally. I slip up on this almost every time, in one of three ways:

• She declines the date proposal (and by extension phone number) because of the needy relationship-seeking vibe (I don't know where this is coming from)
• She doesn't take my incoming call, or texts me to decline a date
• She accepts the date, we have a great time, but I never hear from her after, because of the apparent BF frame (again, no idea how that got into her head)

This "why don't we grab a coffee if you're free some time this week" line is starting to get old. I don't like it. I might start a separate thread on this after Christmas. The "lover" seems to get there without coffee

Marty, I'm definitely starting to feel this as well sometimes. I've been doing the coffee thing for quite some time and my results are yet still just subpar and I don't have a single real LR to show for my dates. Either they're painting me as a BF candidate or I'm just not doing it right. I'm not complaining, as this is part of the learning process; I would like to see though what alternatives there are to this. Like you said, many other LRs from other forum members have gotten by just fine without coffee.

Though, I am curious to hear your opinion: why do you think coffee dates are in particular seeding towards LTRs? I've been under the impression that the prototypical "complex" date, such as dinner + movies, or a hike, etc., were more under that banner.