Having a meet up with a girl

[Improvementalist]

A good while ago, actually year and a half ago, I happened to stumble across this one girl at a course which I was attending to.

After one lecture where I had made a remark on the subject which we were having, this girl came to me and started speaking to me, seemingly excited of the subject which I had spoken of. I then decided to accompany her at the corridor after the lecture, chatting for a small while but eventually parting our ways.

We didn't really speak that much during the course, but when we happened to see each other at the corridors of the study facility, I always went for her to chat a bit. And again, she was very excited to see me.

I then went and added her as my FB friend, where I did some deep diving with her. I learned that we had some same interests and hobbies.

I was starting to develop a small crush on her - but at the same time I had unbeknownst replaced face-to-face talks with FB-textchats.

Then, she added on her wall an FB post where she was next to another man, seemingly happy. There were a few comments from people which hinted the two were together.


I've always had a bit of an achilles heel when it comes to competition with males, as I've never felt myself very good at it. And to tell the truth, I don't even get very much pleasure of trying to win a woman from or over another man.

So I simply quieted myself from that point onwards when it came to this girl.

--A year went by--

She happened to have a birthday, so I decided to sent a small "congrats"-message for her with "How you're doing?". This time, I had been here at GC for a small while, and had grown some small fundamentals at least.

When she answered with something like, "[writing about how she's doing] ... You know, it's quite sad we don't see each other so often anymore. I guess we both are going deeper and deeper towards our studies.", I immediately knew the name of the game.

I didn't care whether she was in a relationship or not, this girl was interested in a good conversation and I was going to give it to her.

So I made to her some suggestions of a few dates where we could meet up.

She wrote a few phrases back, but it could be basically translated as "I'm free at anytime."

I thought to myself, "Is this girl complying like hell or what?"


So yeah, I'm meeting this girl. The only problem I feel like I'm having is that chatting with girls who already have a partner have many times been.. Well, a bit complicated and some times I've had to pull the plug on the whole thing.

One time a girl was clearly trying to put me as a third wheel, another time a girl was clearly interested in me, but moved eventually away with her partner.

Now this girl, I don't really want anything romantic with her as one of my first set of rules are, "Don't become a third wheel or a friggin' secret lover".
But of course, there's also the thing that the picture which I mentioned is now a year old, and I still do not know whether she's 100 % in a relationship or not (thought the pic is still visibly there)

Yeah, now I'm overanalyzing and in a risk of putting her to the pedestal (Maybe I've already put her.. GodDAMNIT!). But it's not easy trying to stay out of the defence mode, knowing there's a girl that is interested, because of personal reasons like "Things can become complicated".
But after all, it's simply a girl who's interested in a friendly lunch chat. Right?



Note to self: I need to meet more women.




Anyways, comments are welcome and appreciated!

 

[Mr.Rob]

The way I see it Improvementalist is that if she's into you to the point where she would have sex with you why wouldn't you. Now you don't know for sure, but if she is willing to cheat on her boyfriend with you I would do it.

Not to be a dick or disrespect anyone but simply because if you don't fuck her then she'll find some other guy that will... and it won't be her boyfriend.

So if it's going to happen anyway why not be the CHAMP.

However if it's a hard rule of yours and you have your reasons do your thing no shame/judgment.

Another thing you mention is that you don't even know if she has a boyfriend so why not let her bring it up if it becomes a problem.

Lastly based on the fact that you're writing a long post about one girl you haven't slept with probably shows that you're in scarcity and need to meet more women (as you mentioned yourself which is good that you realize).

How come you don't meet more women? IDK if you've put up any FR's or not haven't been paying a ton of attention lately but if not perhaps try easing your way into the mud.

The Newbie assignment is perfect for that and we'd love to see you give it a shot.

Nice to talk to you,

-Rob

 

[Improvementalist]

Thanks for your post Mr.Rob! I read it a few days ago, and got some time to answer it now.

I just have to tell you of the dream I saw at the same night when I had started this topic:

I saw a dream where one of my parents had cheated the other one, and the whole family was falling apart. I was a teenager at the dream, so the happening would have quite an impact in the dream life I was having. The other one of my parents would pack things and leave, saying "It's going to bee some time before we see again..".

Now, naturally this was just a dream and nothing more. But it's reflecting from my subconscious. When I was younger, I used to be quite a white knight. And to the recent past I still was that. It has been for only about half a year that I've been changing my mindset.

But old habits die hard - they are burrowed deep at the subconscious.



But now for the meet up.

We met and headed for the study restaurant. The first thing I noticed as she was standing next to me was that she was wearing an engagement ring. This brought up some strange emotional reactions in me. I first felt a bit neutral, like "Okay. So she's taking her relationship seriously.". Then I felt a bit disappointed, like that I wasn't expecting it and that I "should've known".

Then the strange thing happened:
I began to sweat immensely.

I don't know whether it was the warm air in the room, or my subconscious reacting to the situation, but sweatdrops were gathering all over my face. I thought of what the girl would think of this, but then psyched myself to get my **** together and man up.

She proposed a quiet place at a good location in the hall, and after we had sat down and started talking, I could feel the connection again. This wiped out my creeping anxiety attack(?).

So yes, we talked for at least over an hour, maybe hour and a half. I did notice a few things though.

1. She was deeply engaged in the conversation, which is of course a good thing (vs another girl which I once met, who would browse her phone for a good portion of the conversation. Yeah, we didn't end up together)

2. She did try to qualify herself at times (first implying that she doesn't have many friends here and then when I asked more of it in a bit worried tone, "Are you saying that you don't really have any friends here at all?", she went quickly to correct herself and put it on to a more positive light. Now this is interesting, because if her attitude towards me is purely friendly, she would've told more of this problem - but instead she turned to qualify herself, because had she not, it would've put her "in a negative light".

3. She went quickly to change the subject when she was accidentally about to start talking of her boyfriend ("Well, I usually go to New York [city name changed] to.. [pauses for a second, then changes the subject to a completely different one]". Yes, her boyfriend lives at New York. This was a bit humorous for me, like why do you evade the subject? I can see the engagement ring you're wearing.. But this thought I kept only to myself.


In the end, I did imply to her that it would be nice to see again, though I didn't hint it in a sexualized manner. This probably leads me to the friendzone, but I was still so confused of the new information I had at the beginning of the meet up, and even of my own reaction to it, that I couldn't really make a clear move forward. I didn't know what I wanted from her - I liked her and liked talking to her, but the whole thing was too complicated.


And yes, I know.. Overthinking/-analyzing much?


Comments are welcome on this case..

---

About the scarcity and FR-thing. Yes, I've had at max a couple of FR's but no FR+ or ++.

My challenge right now is winning my own mindset. I feel that it's my own mind that's affecting negatively the whole game. Plus, I have scarcity and I can't apply it properly (I linger too long for different girls who then end up losing interest because expiration date or they simply pick another man.

And then there's this one girl who hangs with this guy. They aren't together but, well let me explain.

Oh, and the girl has been interested in me. IOI's and such. At best the guy sees me as competition.

[Location: Bar]

1. Girl hangs out with this guy plus another girl. They are basically like each others orbiters, the girls being for the guy and the guy being for the girls. They do know each other.
2. The guy goes grinding a third girl, who is a complete stranger. She seems to enjoy it and he begins touching the girl's hair. The first girl (who has catched my eye so to speak) leaves almost immediately and sits next to me, initiating a conversation to the person who sits at the other side of me.
3. The guy leaves the dance floor and accompanies the first girl, initiating a conversation with her. The first girl complies. The second girl comes and just dances silently next to the guy, even though the guy is sitting at the sofa, speaking to the first girl
4. The guy takes the girls back to the dance floor

I was baffled of the clear mechanism that were taking place, and how clearly I could see through them (a skill I did not previous have).

I was also a bit disappointed for the girls - they could pick most men at the bar, but instead they engage in this self-repeating, almost futile-like game.

But then I laughed to myself - Am I any better? I'm simply doing nothing but watching, when I could be engaging different girls at the bar.


But at least I'm learning something.

 

[Improvementalist]

Bumping the thread just a little, for I am still eager to hear comments about this whole thing.

Naturally I am not asking how to:

1. Friendzone the girl if must

or how to

2. Bed her

or

3. Imply to solve her potential mess with the boyfriend (She was avoiding the topic about the man after all) before moving things forward.


Instead I'm simply asking enlightement on her mindset of thoughts, how she is viewing things.
An understanding of her.


But I have to add here that after all I do not know what caused the girl to avoid the topic. Perhaps she started suddenly missing her boyfriend (who lived in another city) and that was the reason why she didn't want to thread not one foot on the topic.



And next, I'm entering the Newbie-topic, which you Mr. Rob mentioned of.

Newbie assignment is not unknown for me - it was one of the first things which I looked when I entered this forum in the very beginning (which is probably not a surprise).

As a pleasant note I have to say that the exercices of day 1, 2 and 3 all come almost naturally for me. Day 4 I also do when I'm in a good mood - which is saying "Hi" to passing strangers who I have engaged an eye contact.

Here's one example. And it's just from today.

(By the way, I know that my second post was way too much in the FR-zone to be a post at the general-section. Sorry about that. I felt that it needed to be in this topic, rather to be as a separate one - although later I realized I could have just put a link to the separate topic from this one. And this next writing is going to resemble a journal. Oh well.. But anyway, on to the example.)



1. As I was about to step out of the campus building, I noticed a few gals approaching the door behind me. I stopped and decided to open the door for them, naturally keeping an eye contact.
They thanked me and off they went.


2. I was texting my phone outside with a hint of the bored look on my face and a posture. I heard a trio of girls talking to each other. I heard one of them say "Catch you later.". As I could hear the footsteps approaching closer, I lifted my eyes from the phone. She was looking at me, but I wasn't sure if I recognized the girl. She said "Hi.", but didn't stop walking.

Now next, I didn't:

1. Simply grunt back something random
2. Go all over flirty with "Well hello there." and a raised eyebrow
3. Go to the clingy mode and "Oh hi! How's your day been going/What's your name?/Nice to see you/Great to meet you!"

I simply acknowledged at the very moment that she was simply a woman which I may or may not know, who greeted me.
Maybe she was checking me out and as I caught her in the act she had to say something to me - or maybe not.

I answered to her greeting as I lowered my eyes back to the phone.


3. Returning from campus, I stepped inside the apartment complex where my home apartment is situated. I noticed two girls walking the corridor, talking. They eventually noticed me, and when I walked close enough I greeted them.
They both answered with a positively toned "Hi", perfectly simultaneously. It sounded like the scene from "Charlie's Angels" which was funny.


4. With a good feeling that I had received from the two friends who almost sounded like sisters, speaking in a synchronization like that, I engaged in a very quick conversation with a girl at the elevator, as we were lifted up to our own according floors.


And yeah, that wraps up today. That's pretty much my a portion of my daily life. (Well the "Hi"-initiative from the girl at the number 2 - IF she was a complete stranger, I don't get those very often)


Now to think of it, I recall a small incident back at winter. Nothing big, just "social experimenting"

- I was visiting a good friend of mine, and we were heading out to the city. It was afternoon, and as I was about to step outside, I noticed that the shoelaces from my other shoe were open.
But the thing is, as I stepped outside I noticed two gals right outside the entrance. I stopped just a few meters from them and started to work on my shoelaces.
Once I was done, I stood up and it was only then when I greeted the two girls, casually walking past them.

Once I joined my friend who was standing further at the front yard, he said to me,
"You could have greeted them a bit sooner, you know?"

Well, they didn't mind it. They simply talked to themselves as I was working on my shoes. But it did create a small, nice tension - or at least so it was in my thougths.

Damn, I miss that guy.. Too bad he doesn't call me nor does he care to talk with me anymore when I call him.
"Sorry.. Busy now. I call you tomorrow, IF I have the time." Thing which he never has.
But oh well, abundance. There's always other people who are eager to hear from me.
But still, I do miss him a bit.



I could write more of the Newbie assignment, but I feel that my posting has gathered enough length as it is. I'll leave it for another post.

In the meantime, I'm waiting for a word from all you great guys! =)

 

[Improvementalist]

Man, it's 3 months since I last posted on this thread.

Sorry for raising the dust.


I have to say I had kind of moved to more green pastures in regards of this gal here. But since a recent happening I decided to update.

To summarize the last months,

1. I realized she was engaged, and decided it was not the effort to try building a game - it was against my principles (white knighting, I know..).

2. I still realized that because I couldn't have her, I'm simply a guy doing her boyfriend's work. She graduates by next fall and moves back to her boyfriend. I did check this by asking, when we had a lunch at late fall, if she'll stay at this area when she graduates.

She once again went elusive regarding her boyfriend, stating

"I have relatives there, at [another area], so I'll to move back there once I graduate.

I was a bit irritated and thought, "Why not simply say,

- My husband to-be lives there so I'll go for him."

Go figure..


She did eventually open up about her engaged boyfriend, with relatively neutral topics (smoking habits etc.)

Naturally she did have to talk negatively about her hair - when the her hair to my eyes were one of her best cards in regards of appearance.
She has a stunning hair.

I listened for a little while, her talking how she never gets a good hairstyle and it's just so dull looking.

And then I answered with, "I think your hairstyle fits you really well."

She couldn't say nothing against that.


We eventually departed and I was left with mixed feelings. I was holding to my principles but all I felt was a "reserve boyfriend" without the good stuff a boyfriend has.

I felt myself half a shopping guy. The only thing I needed anymore was going around shopping with her.

Lol..


And then I decided.

I completely stopped my ititiatives toward her, didn't ask her for lunch nor did I start texting her.



Months went by and I actually kind of forgot her, instead focusing on my studies (lol..)



I did maintain slight observations, noticing when a girl is flirting (those are few and far between. I live a relatively busy life, so when a moment comes I'm always on the move to somewhere else.. Which is of course only my bad.

The good thing is that some of the flirts have been from bombshells.)

I could ask one of these flirting girls for a date right at the bat but it's always in social circles when these flirtations happen so there's a bit too much pressure around.



Then, later there was this one field trip to a bar with a wing man and his engaged girlfriend. I can tell you that didn't go well. Should've gone alone - there was actually one "half cougar" gal eye flirting with me, but when the two were constantly just about to pull out of the venue it was impossible for me to even start game.

Scheesch.

I was so disappointed with the night that I didn't even think about going to a bar for a little while, and then the deadline rush got me so I didn't even have a chance.


I wasn't really progressing, but at least I didn't feel like I was falling behind to my old ways. I was still more confident around women, and I still get a few flirts now and then.


Then, just a few days ago, the gal texted me.

- Hi! Merry Christmas! It would've been nice to have lunch sometime before Christmas, but I was simply too busy.. Perhaps next semester? ,

[her name]


I was kind of impressed that she finally had the initiative to try ask me for a lunch, but then again I had kind of moved on already.. It was months since we had last seen.

Still, I went "well what's not to.." and,

- Hi! Merry Christmas to you too! I was also busy like hell, didn't really have time for anything else. Yeah, I think it would be great to see you sometime around the coming semester.
See you around at campus!



It's peculiar how first - way long ago, she seemed almost too beautiful for me (out of my league), and now I just don't really even care anymore since she's engaged and I have other things to focus on, but I keep still hanging my mind about her. I don't look up towards her, nor do I look down. I'm just laid back when we meet and that's all.

It could be a good thing, but then again I need to remember the friend zone and the shopping guy syndrome.



I need to get rid of my scarcity and get more abundance.

But I'm still a bit hesitant on going to weekend venues all by myself.

The social circle game's changer here - I don't really get no more invitations for those. Don't know why. Plus, I've noticed that some of the single gals have just "vanished" from social circles. I don't hear of them from anyone, nor do I stumble upon them.

Perhaps they've gone for a relationship, which may decrease the motivation for social student gathering nights.

So I need to change my game with that too, focusing on other areas.

And no more wingmen evenings, to hell with those!


So I've decided to go for the larger student club evenings which I'm fairly familiar with.
(or I could try day game, but I'm such a novice with it that I try more eagerly the student nights..)

The venue's big and it can bring problems, but I need to continue with something here.

And whenever I go out, I try to put an FR of it.

That's my goal for the cometh year.


Improvementalist out.


P.S This is starting to sound more and more like an FR. Perhaps someone could direct this whole thread there.

 

[ray_zorse]

Hey man reading some of the earlier stuff in this thread I have a kinda similar situation with a Muslim girl from Indonesia, we get on great & have arranged several hangouts and playdates for our kids, dunno really what I want, she's attractive, but loves hubby and frankly, respect to hubby for working in Indonesia and supporting them while she studies. So banging her would be a bit of a c--t act and also likely make her feel really guilty, so I'm happy with friends coz it's good to have some actual friends.

However I'm keeping my options open by making a lot of outrageous sexual remarks (which she rewards by punching me and otherwise getting physical) and doing stuff like massaging her neck if it's sore etc. This is how I'd recommend to handle your situation with the engaged girl. Just focus on being a sexual man and getting physical at all times and I mean with all women no matter what, the only ones you might consider excepting are your superiors and those who turn you off in some way.

The reason you should do this is it makes women feel good, friends or not! They do this too, flirtatiousness != action! If you just do this, everything will take care of itself, you just have to decide whether to pull the trigger should an opportunity come up, and this will be highly influenced by the vibe you get from her, its prob not worth blasting through lots of LMR in such cases but if she's really keen you're golden.

cheers, Ray

 

[ILoveElla]

So yeah, I'm meeting this girl. The only problem I feel like I'm having is that chatting with girls who already have a partner have many times been.. Well, a bit complicated and some times I've had to pull the plug on the whole thing.

That 'W' for 'well' should be a capital. I'm guessing I'm one of the few who made sense of that.

 

[Improvementalist]

So yeah, I'm meeting this girl. The only problem I feel like I'm having is that chatting with girls who already have a partner have many times been.. Well, a bit complicated and some times I've had to pull the plug on the whole thing.

That 'W' for 'well' should be a capital. I'm guessing I'm one of the few who made sense of that.

Isn't it already? Or do you mean, "shouldn't be"? In that case you would be wrong.

I know I'll always have writing errors in my writing. English is not my native language.

If you have any comments on the bigger picture that is my story, I would gladly hear it.

Hey man reading some of the earlier stuff in this thread I have a kinda similar situation with a Muslim girl from Indonesia, we get on great & have arranged several hangouts and playdates for our kids, dunno really what I want, she's attractive, but loves hubby and frankly, respect to hubby for working in Indonesia and supporting them while she studies. So banging her would be a bit of a c--t act and also likely make her feel really guilty, so I'm happy with friends coz it's good to have some actual friends.

However I'm keeping my options open by making a lot of outrageous sexual remarks (which she rewards by punching me and otherwise getting physical) and doing stuff like massaging her neck if it's sore etc. This is how I'd recommend to handle your situation with the engaged girl. Just focus on being a sexual man and getting physical at all times and I mean with all women no matter what, the only ones you might consider excepting are your superiors and those who turn you off in some way.

The reason you should do this is it makes women feel good, friends or not! They do this too, flirtatiousness != action! If you just do this, everything will take care of itself, you just have to decide whether to pull the trigger should an opportunity come up, and this will be highly influenced by the vibe you get from her, its prob not worth blasting through lots of LMR in such cases but if she's really keen you're golden.

cheers, Ray

Thank you Ray for once again answering at my thread. I really appreciate it!

And sorry for my late answer, I've been having a Christmas vacation and that has meant a vacation both from GC and studies. Yeah, I've still read the threads but I've been more of a sleeper asset for a few weeks.


Anyways, you are right about this and all I actually have been wanting for the last few months from her is just a plain friendship or a talk buddy.

She's not that special and she's already engaged - any daring actions would just cause a huge drama and a "you better stick since you picked"-syndrome.


This gal of your's a single one? If so, that could make things easier in regards of being a sexual man but still open for options.

 

[Improvementalist]

This "open for options"-method actually reminds me of this one girl I met a few years ago.


I never found out whether she was single or not, but she had always this "shield" up. Let's say her name is Kendra.

- I could get any if none information from her, regarding relationships

- Her friends were always super inquisitive about me (implicitly) in regards of her (I attend a bar evening student event where she's also with her friends. At one point of evening, I'm dancing with one of her friends because Kendra isn't fond of dancing.

"What's the real reason of you coming here?", asks this friend of her.

"Lol, what is that supposed to mean?", I ask, dodging the question.

She just looks at me, pondering, and we eventually continue dancing. Soon afterwards Kendra tells me she has to go because the last bus will leave soon (which she was right about). At that point I had lost my vibe because of the previous interrogation and I just bid her a good night.



Kendra eventually graduates and I don't really see her anymore. Around a year later I stumble upon the same friend of her. We small talk for a while when I decide to ask how Kendra is doing.

"Hmmm... What should I tell about her.."

I laugh a little about the whole thing, saying,

"Bits and picked pieces of information.."

Eventually she just tells how Kendra's doing with work. Soon after I just get bored with all the shielding and decide to end the discussion.

"Wait. Have you had a lunch yet? You could accompany me."

No, I didn't accompany her.



But what I meant with the "open for options" was that since I didn't ever find out whether she was in a relationship or not, I often had (or at least tried to have) a sexy and laid back vibe around her without being too sleek.

If I would've known for sure that she was in relationship, I could've thought, "Why bother? She's in a relationship already."