FU HELP! Approached a group of 3 girls and 1 guy, guy says I insulted him?

[sneaky_charm]

This is my first report. I'm 20, and I do not reside in a large city like NYC or Vegas, I'm from countryside. I'm not disclosing my location for privacy reasons. I fucking love all of you guys, especially Chase, Franco, Richard, Nick, Narrow J, Gentle_Phrases, Marty, Marksman and Antaman! I have approached and made small talk only like 10 times till now, number closed once, which went nowhere. But all of you give me inspiration every fucking day, and with your help, I'll shine!

************************************
NOW THE REPORT:

So I go to this park with my friends, I spot a girl sitting with her friends, but can't say how many. Seemed like the group consisted of 2 or 3 girls.

I see that the girl I was looking looked at me back too, and due to low amount of lights in the area during evening, could not see her face too clearly. Tell my friends to wait and go toward the girl. When at a close distance, I say 'Are you single?'. Her face is reactionless, but she says yes.

I ask her 'May I know your name?', while at the same time, extending my hand. Slightly, she stands up from sitting, and takes my hand. She says her name which I can't really remember. I ask her to spell her name, she complies. I do not let her hand go, but I feel after 3 or so seconds, she slowly takes her hand away. All this time, I maintain eye contact from the beginning till the end.

I ask her where she is from, and she says that she is from a nearby state. I also ask if she is studying, and she says a name of school and course, I do not really hear properly, so I slightly bend toward her, and put my left ear toward her, signalling that I didn't get her. She complies, and comes close to me and says the school name and course. Again, I don't exactly remember what it was, but something I didn't hear and she complied and leaned forward. By my location standards, she came VERY close while leaning, since I was a stranger. I ask her if she is with friends, and she says yes, looking toward her friends. I look toward her friends once, and don't pay any further attention, and continue to deep dive.

Seconds pass. I could tell it was on. So far so good. Neither I, nor she really broke eye contact till this point.

NOW THE FUCKED UP PART.....

I suddenly hear her guy friend saying something. I turn toward him, who was standing on my right about 2 feet away. He says 'I feel strange you coming like this.' I don't really get him and ask why. He just says that he feels like I'm intruding the group. At this point, I suppose the guy is an orbiter, and so I say 'Why? I apologize. Is she your girlfriend?', with a friendly tone and expression (hopefully). He answers 'No'. I extend my hand 'What is your name?', his face remains the same in expression, and after about 3 seconds, he says 'There is no need to know my name.'

Now I try to get back to the girl, but sensing that the situation demands me leaving, I say to the girl 'Before I leave, can I have your number?'. Now her other girl friend sitting just beside her toward her right almost shouts 'No', and I almost sense hostility in her expression. Heck, I didn't even talk to that bitch all this time, why the hell she had to interrupt!

I sensed as if my target was interested and considered giving me number, but due to pressure, could not say anything. She remained silent. And all this happened within like 10 seconds, so it was fast.

The guy, after the bitch interrupts me starts talking to me too, saying 'I feel insulted. I'm a man, and I'm here, and you are coming and doing this.' I say 'I didn't mean to. I'm sorry!'

WHAT THE FUCK ASSHOLE, WHY ARE YOU FEELING INSULTED? AND IF YOU FEEL SO, SHUT THE FUCK UP, WHY ARE YOU SHOWING THAT YOU ARE WEAK IN FRONT OF 3 GIRLS?

Now I do not do anything further since the guys expression starts to become little angry too, and saying 'Have a nice day!', I leave.

My question is, what exactly went wrong? How do I operate under such conditions, and diffuse such cockblock in future? I do not want to avoid girls with guy friends altogether, because then I'll have to avoid too many cute and sexy ones.

- Kevin

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Don't worry too much about understanding exactly why he's upset; that's for another day and another lesson.

Focus on your approach and reactions. And you approached and stood you ground for a bit, which is good! That being said, you needed to be more short with him.

When he said "I feel weird you coming in like this," your response should have been simply "why?" or even just a facial expression of confusion. He's the Alpha of the group and is challenging you. I noticed that you mentioned him saying "I feel insulted," and commented on its weakness. If you use the momentum correctly you CAN expose his insecurities to the girls, but until you challenge him correctly, he maintains his authority, which is bad for you (again, I could continue about the power dynamics here, but let's focus on the solution).

If you say "why?" or put on a quizzical face, the burden is on him - he needs to explain himself. Whatever stupid fucking response he gives, you just respond "I thought she was cute. I wanted to come say hi." You justify yourself SLIGHTLY; try to avoid questions as much as possible. The only questions you should ask are those that put him on the spot. If he challenges your desire to approach her, ask him "what's wrong with approaching a girl you think is attractive?" And then, from here, you can demolish his ass.

Here's an example of how to do it.

DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE. Your words can be slightly defensive, so long as your tone isn't. Put on a "slightly amused, but still curious" tone.

If you practice groups enough, you'll get good at this. Kudos for the persistence in asking the girl's number, but as you clearly understood: pressure was too strong.

In a nutshell: Make them feel weird for challenging you. You are the king who laughs at the jester who insults him.


- Anatman

 

[Marty]

Sneaky Charm:

Anatman has you covered; I only wanted to add that I admire your resolve in opening a mixed group after only 10 approaches. That's tough; it took me almost 150 approaches before I first opened a girl accompanied by men. All-female groups I find altogether less objectionable.

One area you will probably develop is an underlying awareness of what is going on in the rest of the group while you're talking to your girl, through your peripheral vision, your hearing, your intuition and your judgment. That can give you a heads-up as to what steps you might need to take in the very near future. For example, yesterday I opened a young girl of about 20 with her elder sister in attendance; the sister walked on a couple paces ahead and it was totally obvious she was leaving me to do my thing (I failed to persist for unrelated reasons—it was a golden opportunity missed). It's not always that clear-cut... you can sometimes sense tension, or just curiosity on the part of the other group members; maybe even a mischievous desire to intervene in events.

-Marty

 

[sneaky_charm]

Thank you so much Antaman and Marty for your helpful words.

I noticed that you mentioned him saying "I feel insulted," and commented on its weakness. If you use the momentum correctly you CAN expose his insecurities to the girls, but until you challenge him correctly, he maintains his authority

I was thinking the moment he said "I feel insulted" the girls were likely to see that he was acting weak. But since that is not the case as you know these things FAR FAR better than me, what am I missing here? Why does he still maintain authority after such vulnerable comment?

DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE. Your words can be slightly defensive, so long as your tone isn't. Put on a "slightly amused, but still curious" tone.

If I am correct in gauging my reactions accurately, I think even though I said sorry, I didn't make it weak. I was just being polite, not trying to get him angry and cause a scene, with a neutral voice (I'd like to think so). But I admit, I did not put amused expression or tone!

I only wanted to add that I admire your resolve in opening a mixed group after only 10 approaches. That's tough; it took me almost 150 approaches

Thanks mate! But you are the boss, and I can only wish to be near your level at this point.

Actually I have been talking to random people on and off for a year or more, but since most talks are like this:

Me: "Excuse me, where is the x restaurant?"
Girl: "xxx place."
And I leave due to pressure.

So those interactions do not really count. Also, I have sometimes randomly approached guy groups in the past simply for hi hello if I am really bored, or the group is near me for a while and I seem to like the members a bit.

So perhaps the above two things contributed to me approaching the group like that. In fact, only recently I'm trying extra hard to keep a conversation going, and the total number is about 10, and admittedly, this is the first time I've approached a group with a guy.

you can sometimes sense tension, or just curiosity on the part of the other group members; maybe even a mischievous desire to intervene in events

I guess I'll develop such instincts after a few months. Hopefully at least!

So I have a question I hope both of you answer. Well, is it possible to take measures to diffuse such intervention attempts at the outset? For instance, if I approach the group, and say to the target

Me: "Hi!"
Girl: "Hello."
Then as if I happen to notice she is with friends.....
Me: "Are they your friends?"
Girl: "Yes, these are my friends."
Me: "I hate to interrupt you guys like this, but is it okay if I talk to your friend for a while?" (to the group)

Hopefully, the members of the group will agree due to social pressure, and from then on, they have no choice but to suck it up when I continue to deep dive and flirt and number pull!

Or is it too weak? I'm just looking for something that can totally block cockblocks from happening from the beginning till the end, but in a friendly socially-adroit manner. What are my options?

Thanks a ton again!

- Kevin

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

I was thinking the moment he said "I feel insulted" the girls were likely to see that he was acting weak. But since that is not the case as you know these things FAR FAR better than me, what am I missing here? Why does he still maintain authority after such vulnerable comment?

He can get away with it, because he's the Alpha (in the ethnographic sense). I'd like to avoid too much social structure explanation, since you might focus too much on the theory rather than an antidote, but if it helps, then I'll elaborate.

He's the leader. You threatened his dominance by approaching the girl. He might himself like her, want her as a girlfriend - or he might even just want her attention for the sake of his ego - nonetheless, you're stealing his limelight. And you COULD get away with this if your fundamentals were stronger than his (i.e., he can sense you're stronger), but he judged you as inferior and so he attacked you. The nature of all attacks is that when you extend any limb or mental effort to destroy an obstacle or enemy, you leave yourself vulnerable - thus is the nature of offense. If you had correctly subdued his dominance by making him look weak for attacking you (which is weakness; he sensed you were a threat, just not so much a threat that he might lose), then you would have EXPOSED this to the other girls and the true weakness of his rudeness would become clear to them. However, you buckled. And so the girls, to maintain the cohesion of their pack, reinforced the Alpha's challenge to you. The girl who liked you certainly understood the guy's weakness and I do not doubt that one day he'll fuck with someone his superior and he'll lose his top dog spot, but despite her affection for you, you weren't worth the ostracization she might face if she'd give you her number.

I know it sucks, but allow this to motivate you! When shit like this happens to me, I think "one day, I'm going to be the man every guy is afraid to challenge." And, if you put in the work, you will become that man. About two months ago I was at the bars in another town and after talking to some girl a guy approached me and said

Him - Hey, man, that's my girlfriend

And how did I respond?

I said "okay," accompanied by a soft uptone at the end to express skepticism and curiosity as to why he even said that (i.e., "okay...?")

He paused and said quickly (a sign of nervousness)

Him - Well, I just wanted you to know...

After this he acted really nicely towards me and I even talked to him for half an hour and got a drink with him. Yeah, I could have been more of a dick, but I'd already won with one word.

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-b ... ner-effect
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-b ... stereotype

Read up on these

If I am correct in gauging my reactions accurately, I think even though I said sorry, I didn't make it weak. I was just being polite, not trying to get him angry and cause a scene, with a neutral voice (I'd like to think so). But I admit, I did not put amused expression or tone!

True, you can say "sorry" without submitting, but for now, let's work on eliminating that from your diction. There's no problem in being polite; a socially calibrated Alpha male uses social norms to his advantage! But I think you need to go through your "jerk" phase for a bit, so you need to start breaking norms, being a bit more antagonistic, etc. I'm not saying trip retards and kick babies, but get a bit more...edgy. So, for starters, work on your diction and add some edge to your tone and vibe. I suggest watching movies with strong leading males. If you can give me a quick summary on what kind of seducer you want to be, I can recommend a character in a show or movie who you can emulate. My idols are Tucker Max, Damn Salvatore, Ryan Gosling, Robert Downey Jr. and Prince Oberyn (Game of Thrones).


Keep up the work, dawg. So many adventures await

- Anatman

 

[sneaky_charm]

you're stealing his limelight

Now I see what the real problem is!

he judged you as inferior and so he attacked you

Right on the money! I am skinny and average in height. And I looked pretty younger than him too! Didn't realize physical appearance plays parts in such ways too. Time to bulk up!

The nature of all attacks is that when you extend any limb or mental effort to destroy an obstacle or enemy, you leave yourself vulnerable

This is a keeper, something that will help me throughout my life! Thank you!

despite her affection for you, you weren't worth the ostracization she might face if she'd give you her number

Thankfully I realized this and didn't push for number!

Him - Hey, man, that's my girlfriend

And how did I respond?

I said "okay," accompanied by a soft uptone at the end to express skepticism and curiosity as to why he even said that (i.e., "okay...?")

He paused and said quickly (a sign of nervousness)

Him - Well, I just wanted you to know...

LOL! The world out there, don't mess with expert Girlschase members!

I think you need to go through your "jerk" phase for a bit

To be honest, this is something I'm afraid to do. I don't want to get into arguments or petty fights. Besides, I gotta bulk up a bit. But I get your point, and see that doing that is truly important when just wetting my feet! I'll try to be.

I suggest watching movies with strong leading males

No one beats James Bond! But I have a few other inspirations. I'll say my style resembles James Marshall a bit, but I tone down in order to not come as too intimidating. Not close to his height, but my facial expressions are naturally serious, so I gotta keep those light.

Keep up the work, dawg. So many adventures await

Definitely will! Loving it already!

- Kevin

 

[Marty]

I said "okay," accompanied by a soft uptone at the end to express skepticism and curiosity as to why he even said that (i.e., "okay...?")

This is just beautiful.

 

[lifeisgoodmatt]

He can get away with it, because he's the Alpha (in the ethnographic sense). I'd like to avoid too much social structure explanation, since you might focus too much on the theory rather than an antidote, but if it helps, then I'll elaborate.

He's the leader. You threatened his dominance by approaching the girl. He might himself like her, want her as a girlfriend - or he might even just want her attention for the sake of his ego - nonetheless, you're stealing his limelight. And you COULD get away with this if your fundamentals were stronger than his (i.e., he can sense you're stronger), but he judged you as inferior and so he attacked you. The nature of all attacks is that when you extend any limb or mental effort to destroy an obstacle or enemy, you leave yourself vulnerable - thus is the nature of offense. If you had correctly subdued his dominance by making him look weak for attacking you (which is weakness; he sensed you were a threat, just not so much a threat that he might lose), then you would have EXPOSED this to the other girls and the true weakness of his rudeness would become clear to them. However, you buckled. And so the girls, to maintain the cohesion of their pack, reinforced the Alpha's challenge to you. The girl who liked you certainly understood the guy's weakness and I do not doubt that one day he'll fuck with someone his superior and he'll lose his top dog spot, but despite her affection for you, you weren't worth the ostracization she might face if she'd give you her number.

Damn man, you've got this shit down Anatman. From Kevin's description its seems like he might have not seen this guy when he approached, so he really couldn't have prevented being blind-sided. I've had this happen to me on more than a few occasions, usually with the alpha of the group, male or female. Bold approach, not acknowledging anyone else, girl is so into it, then bam, blindsided. I usually handle myself well enough, but then there's so much tension, things are shot with the girl even though she's into it. If you can clearly identify the leader before you approach he's probably going to be watching you even before you even start talking. Do you think it would be wise to acknowledge the leader, give that patented nod of respect with eye contact, while making strong eye contact without submitting, granting an equal respected status, before or shortly after the approach? If he rejects your offer of respect after that with an attack like this I'd say fair game to take his alpha status in the group. In this case painting him as an uncouth, rude, insecure, buffoon.

Also Anatman, thanks for posting that video. That was awesome. I've actually been struggling with this, because I seem to attract so many little assholes like that, that try and shut me down when I make a confident approach. I wish I could say it hasn't affected me, and they haven't gotten to me but they have. Just what he said about people like that fucking with people's confidence is going to be a game changer for me. And I think this was also part of where Kevin's adversary was coming from, along with his alpha status feeling threatened.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

I think you need to go through your "jerk" phase for a bit

To be honest, this is something I'm afraid to do. I don't want to get into arguments or petty fights. Besides, I gotta bulk up a bit. But I get your point, and see that doing that is truly important when just wetting my feet! I'll try to be.

How bad do you want it?

- Anatman

 

[sneaky_charm]

From Kevin's description its seems like he might have not seen this guy when he approached

You're right, but I guess even if I did see him, things would have been the same since I am not much experienced.

I usually handle myself well enough

How do you do it, can you explain a bit? That'll help a lot.

How bad do you want it?

Seems like you have me by my balls now!

Anyway Antaman, just watched the video, and it's great. The part where the guy literally runs is too funny! Now next time I approach and something like that happens, I'm thinking of a strategy:

Guy: I feel insulted you coming here like this.
Me: Why?
Guy: It is just a bit strange....
Me: (Smiling in a friendly manner) Why are you acting so insecure, I'm just trying to talk to her?
Guy: I'm not insecure.
Me: But you are acting like it. Are you sure you are not insecure?
Guy: What do you mean? I'm sure.
Me: Well then, let me talk to her like any secure man would do!

I think after this point, the guy would shut up. If he doesn't though, I'm thinking of taking it further....

Guy: No you can't talk to her.
Me: Actually you know what, I feel like YOU are the one who is insulting HER?
Guy: And how is that?
Me: She is talking to me on her own will, and you are interrupting in the middle. She seems like a smart girl, and she can make her own decisions. Why do you think that she needs your permission to talk to me or do anything? Do you think that just because you are a man and she is a women, she is below you?

At this point, the guy should get defensive (I'm guessing). The part "she seems like a smart girl" is my attempt to subtly complement the girl to make her like me more, and put the guy in a maze. He cannot say she is not smart, because that will backfire! And if he agrees that she is smart, he will have to let me stay!

Guys, do you think this strategy will work?

- Kevin

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

That's pretty good. Except I'd wait at least one more response before calling him out ("why are you being so insecure?"). I would throw the objection back at him first

"Why is it weird?"

99% chance he'll say some dumb shit like "well, it just is!"

- Anatman

 

[sneaky_charm]

And another person I forgot to mention at the outset is The Tool! The guy fucking rocks!

 

[sneaky_charm]

Except I'd wait at least one more response before calling him out ("why are you being so insecure?"). I would throw the objection back at him first

Got it mate!

 

[Big Daddy]

And how did I respond?

I said "okay," accompanied by a soft uptone at the end to express skepticism and curiosity as to why he even said that (i.e., "okay...?")

He paused and said quickly (a sign of nervousness)

Him - Well, I just wanted you to know...

After this he acted really nicely towards me and I even talked to him for half an hour and got a drink with him. Yeah, I could have been more of a dick, but I'd already won with one word.

Anatman, what would you do if it was your girlfriend when a guy would come over and start "gaming" your girl?

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

And how did I respond?

I said "okay," accompanied by a soft uptone at the end to express skepticism and curiosity as to why he even said that (i.e., "okay...?")

He paused and said quickly (a sign of nervousness)

Him - Well, I just wanted you to know...

After this he acted really nicely towards me and I even talked to him for half an hour and got a drink with him. Yeah, I could have been more of a dick, but I'd already won with one word.

Anatman, what would you do if it was your girlfriend when a guy would come over and start "gaming" your girl?

I would watch amusingly and might even cheer him on. I always respect guys who just watch while I open their girl and then find out it's her boyfriend. Those are the guys she'll stick with for a long time.

Generally,

1. I take it as a compliment

2. I might learn something

3. If you try to shoo the guy off, you look like SUCH A LITTLE BITCH

4. My cum tastes better than his; it if doesn't, I need to drink more pineapple juice


Think of it first practically

"Am I really going to look like a strong mate to my girl and to the others around me if I challenge this guy?" (Point 3 and 4)

"Is my girl REALLY gonna get picked up by this guy right in front of me; I'm a terrible boyfriend/lover if he does" (Point 4)

Then think of it existentially

"Am I really worried about losing her?"

"If I did lose her here and now, could I move on?"


All depends on what level you're at in your mental evolution. If you're starting out, practicality is your strongest defense against anxiety. Once you mature, however, your existential well-being becomes paramount (i.e., how does this affect my happiness?).

Tl;dr

Don't give a fuck.

- Anatman

 

[Big Daddy]

Think of it first practically

"Am I really going to look like a strong mate to my girl and to the others around me if I challenge this guy?" (Point 3 and 4)

"Is my girl REALLY gonna get picked up by this guy right in front of me; I'm a terrible boyfriend/lover if he does" (Point 4)

Then think of it existentially

"Am I really worried about losing her?"

"If I did lose her here and now, could I move on?"

Cool, I never really thought of breaking down this in two different ways. It reminds me of an article I read on GC some time ago - you can't really think that "you are the prize" until you KNOW that you are the prize. Knowing that you are the prize handles all of your practical actions and go one step further, freeing you from worrying about pretty much everything else.