Hi everybody, love this forum and page, great stuff, keep up the good work! Have been following it for a long time. This is my first time posting on the forum though, I generally read it for advice, so hopefully I can keep this short and to the point. Doubt it though, its a bit of a saga. Really need some outside advice on an issue I have with a girl...
Firstly about me:
I'm in my thirties, good job, make good salary, have good experience with getting girls, am not Tom Cruise but I have charm and high "social proof". Slept with about 50-60 different women of all different types of nationalities. But have never been in many serious relationships. Am the kind of guy that picks up in bars, not clubs where physical looks have higher role. Girls tend to like me, once they get to know me. And I know how to seduce girls, but always struggle to be successful with those I actually like. Tend to overthink things.
About the girl:
Late twenties, good job, I've known her for about 5-6 years, has a bf for most of that, living together for 2. Currently on a break from bf as of last week. Tells me she is bored of her relationship, was happy going with the flow but thinks she now wants to have a change. Cute as hell, not hot, but really cute and super charming, strong character. Massive flirt. Has lots of attention from guys, and she likes it too. Guys/friends i've introduce her to like her.
The situation:
I always thought she was cute but I never saw her that much and never did anything with her. Wasn't on my radar, different friend groups, etc. Then a year ago I was in a bar and it was her birthday and she was there with a whole gang and I bought her a birthday drink, didnt talk to her apart from that. Next day she messaged me on social media to say thanks. And then all of a sudden from not seeing her like ever, she started to turn up at clubs and bars that I hung out regularly and we got talking. About a year ago, one night I walked her home and really had to resist the urge to kiss her (she's a babe but girls with bf not my thing) and I didnt. But I felt a vibe between us and when I got home I messaged her that I really liked her, she replied right away and told me she liked me too but was not single. That started a year long quasi-fling.
We wouldn't see each other regularly or message or anything but then maybe every 2 weeks when we'd meet randomly at the club that I always go to (which before this, I never saw her in ever). After the club she would always want me to bring her to an afterclub and we'd stay out until super late and then I'd walk her home. First few months of this she would flirt heavily but mostly resisted my advances to kiss her (because of bf), I'd tell her I liked her and ask her to dump her bf for me. Stupid move, I know. Can't compete with those years of investment. That approach didnt work, she for sure liked me but was probably teasing and getting her kicks while away from the bf. Then for a couple of months we didn't see each other that much, or often. I would go no contact but she would always come back into my orbit, either by message or turn up at the club (she knows I go to) after not seeing her for a few weeks, or text me asking if i was out and could she join. We wouldn't chat much on social media either during this time. A bit but not much. And I was also out seeing and chasing other girls.
But then mid-summer she started to appear in my social orbit more and more, and I changed strategy and just tried to hook up and told her that whatever happens happens. This seems to work and her defences started to come down, and I'd say for the past 3 months when we would meet it would get hot and heavy. But no sex. I told her I wouldnt have sex with her while she has a boyfriend, that was a red line for me. Call me naive but i just dont want to bang other guys girls, wouldnt like it done to me and would get little to no enjoyment of it. I wanted her as a girlfriend. So basically since June we'd meet in a club, kiss, go to the after club, kiss, walk home, kiss and then she'd go to her place where she lives with her bf and I'd go home alone. She told me that when we were apart for a couple of weeks during this time that she realised I was the only person that she missed, missed seeing, missed spending time with me.
At this stage we began messaging nearly every day, at least every couple of days. It hotted up before I went on holidays in July, making out heavy, etc and could really see the girl was into me. Then I went away 3 weeks holidays, little to no contact with her in between, no messaging, and when I got back we'd be meeting 2-3 times a week for drinks, dinner, clubbing, etc and she'd be initiating a lot of these meet ups. However, when I came back from holidays I said to myself that I would set this girl a deadline to make a decision on me and if that deadline passed I would cut it for both our sakes. A few weeks I told her this would be the case, telling her that she needed to make a decision (about what she wanted from me) and I'd be fine with it either way. Otherwise this could drag on for months and months, as it had already. I needed to cut it. She was a bit annoyed that I was putting the decision on her, and found it hard to accept her role in having to make it. In my head I set a deadline for end Sept. During the past weeks I really put an effort into kissing her, she seemed blown away and couldnt stop wanting more and more. All the while no sex but kissing heavy and getting pretty intimate. She was messaging me stuff like "I want you to know how much you mean to me", etc. This lasted up until last week.
So last week, we met up for drinks and she tells me that she has taken a break from her bf and he moved out temporarily. They had a big fight and he walked out. Not related but he also might suspect she is seeing someone else. Before I met up with her she told me in advance that she would tell me something that would make me quite happy. I expected to be happy with the news but I thought "shit, what now". That night we went out and partied and she ended up back in my bed. Wouldn't have sex, I pressed it a little but at this point I know what she is like and that it would happen when she is ready. Don't like forcing the issue either, a girl is ready when she is ready. We made out a lot, dry humping, hand job, kissing super passionate, etc but no sex. Great night though. I really like the girl and over this time we have developed a really strong, friendly but emotionally and sexually charged relationship.
Since the break from her bf, her friend, mutual friends, etc have been constantly in her face trying to resolve it and she has been quite emotionally messed up. So this week I said if she needed some space it was fine, and she said that she'd like a bit of space but she still would like to see me this week, at the weekend. So I decided to jump the gun and initiated my exit plan. I told her how much I liked her, wanted her and for her to take some space to figure out what she wants to do, including where I fit in all that, etc. I explained to her how I feel about her, I really want her to be my girlfriend not a fk-buddy. And explained that the situation was torturing me and she needed to make decision and should take some space to do that. Basically i rationalised that if she'd get back with the bf next week then I would know this is over anyway, so I pre-empted that and shot a hail mary. Felt like the right time to give her a decision to make. I told her let's do a time-out to see how she feels and to see what happens. She needs some space. I do too. She responded positively and said she understood that im trying to do whats right for her and me, even though it feels like the wrong thing to do. Her reply was good, didn't seem annoyed or anything, maybe a bit passive aggressive though and said that the timeout would be effective immediately. I get a vibe that she is pissed off, either with me or the situation. But she would never tell me that. That was yesterday.
So today I notice that she has unfollowed me on instagram, but still friends on facebook. I dont have her phone number so fb is the only way she can contact me. I thought that was a bit weird deleting me off instagram. Can I read anything into that? So am not sure now if she is pissed off, etc and whether I did the right thing. As explained, I want this girl as a girlfriend, there's great compatibility, etc but I wonder if I did the right thing to time-out when she is having emotional drama with her bf. Never a good time for that, I guess.
So my plan is to go no contact for a while and see what happens. I've done it before and she always came back within about 3 weeks, but this time I fear it might be properly finished. So am not sure what to do. But am ready to walk away if I have to. One thing I have learned, is that guys: girls with boyfriends are a hell of a lot of emotional baggage. Her relationship is dead in the water in my opinion, if not now then later, but I also know that does not mean she will want to jump straight into something right away with me. To be honest, I would be fine seeing her if she was single, and even letting her date other dudes. Didnt tell her that though. Just dont want to be banging a chick with the bf issue attached.
SORRY FOR THE ESSAY!!
Any advice is much appreciated!! If you got some questions, then please ask!!
Thanks,
Finn
Firstly about me:
I'm in my thirties, good job, make good salary, have good experience with getting girls, am not Tom Cruise but I have charm and high "social proof". Slept with about 50-60 different women of all different types of nationalities. But have never been in many serious relationships. Am the kind of guy that picks up in bars, not clubs where physical looks have higher role. Girls tend to like me, once they get to know me. And I know how to seduce girls, but always struggle to be successful with those I actually like. Tend to overthink things.
About the girl:
Late twenties, good job, I've known her for about 5-6 years, has a bf for most of that, living together for 2. Currently on a break from bf as of last week. Tells me she is bored of her relationship, was happy going with the flow but thinks she now wants to have a change. Cute as hell, not hot, but really cute and super charming, strong character. Massive flirt. Has lots of attention from guys, and she likes it too. Guys/friends i've introduce her to like her.
The situation:
I always thought she was cute but I never saw her that much and never did anything with her. Wasn't on my radar, different friend groups, etc. Then a year ago I was in a bar and it was her birthday and she was there with a whole gang and I bought her a birthday drink, didnt talk to her apart from that. Next day she messaged me on social media to say thanks. And then all of a sudden from not seeing her like ever, she started to turn up at clubs and bars that I hung out regularly and we got talking. About a year ago, one night I walked her home and really had to resist the urge to kiss her (she's a babe but girls with bf not my thing) and I didnt. But I felt a vibe between us and when I got home I messaged her that I really liked her, she replied right away and told me she liked me too but was not single. That started a year long quasi-fling.
We wouldn't see each other regularly or message or anything but then maybe every 2 weeks when we'd meet randomly at the club that I always go to (which before this, I never saw her in ever). After the club she would always want me to bring her to an afterclub and we'd stay out until super late and then I'd walk her home. First few months of this she would flirt heavily but mostly resisted my advances to kiss her (because of bf), I'd tell her I liked her and ask her to dump her bf for me. Stupid move, I know. Can't compete with those years of investment. That approach didnt work, she for sure liked me but was probably teasing and getting her kicks while away from the bf. Then for a couple of months we didn't see each other that much, or often. I would go no contact but she would always come back into my orbit, either by message or turn up at the club (she knows I go to) after not seeing her for a few weeks, or text me asking if i was out and could she join. We wouldn't chat much on social media either during this time. A bit but not much. And I was also out seeing and chasing other girls.
But then mid-summer she started to appear in my social orbit more and more, and I changed strategy and just tried to hook up and told her that whatever happens happens. This seems to work and her defences started to come down, and I'd say for the past 3 months when we would meet it would get hot and heavy. But no sex. I told her I wouldnt have sex with her while she has a boyfriend, that was a red line for me. Call me naive but i just dont want to bang other guys girls, wouldnt like it done to me and would get little to no enjoyment of it. I wanted her as a girlfriend. So basically since June we'd meet in a club, kiss, go to the after club, kiss, walk home, kiss and then she'd go to her place where she lives with her bf and I'd go home alone. She told me that when we were apart for a couple of weeks during this time that she realised I was the only person that she missed, missed seeing, missed spending time with me.
At this stage we began messaging nearly every day, at least every couple of days. It hotted up before I went on holidays in July, making out heavy, etc and could really see the girl was into me. Then I went away 3 weeks holidays, little to no contact with her in between, no messaging, and when I got back we'd be meeting 2-3 times a week for drinks, dinner, clubbing, etc and she'd be initiating a lot of these meet ups. However, when I came back from holidays I said to myself that I would set this girl a deadline to make a decision on me and if that deadline passed I would cut it for both our sakes. A few weeks I told her this would be the case, telling her that she needed to make a decision (about what she wanted from me) and I'd be fine with it either way. Otherwise this could drag on for months and months, as it had already. I needed to cut it. She was a bit annoyed that I was putting the decision on her, and found it hard to accept her role in having to make it. In my head I set a deadline for end Sept. During the past weeks I really put an effort into kissing her, she seemed blown away and couldnt stop wanting more and more. All the while no sex but kissing heavy and getting pretty intimate. She was messaging me stuff like "I want you to know how much you mean to me", etc. This lasted up until last week.
So last week, we met up for drinks and she tells me that she has taken a break from her bf and he moved out temporarily. They had a big fight and he walked out. Not related but he also might suspect she is seeing someone else. Before I met up with her she told me in advance that she would tell me something that would make me quite happy. I expected to be happy with the news but I thought "shit, what now". That night we went out and partied and she ended up back in my bed. Wouldn't have sex, I pressed it a little but at this point I know what she is like and that it would happen when she is ready. Don't like forcing the issue either, a girl is ready when she is ready. We made out a lot, dry humping, hand job, kissing super passionate, etc but no sex. Great night though. I really like the girl and over this time we have developed a really strong, friendly but emotionally and sexually charged relationship.
Since the break from her bf, her friend, mutual friends, etc have been constantly in her face trying to resolve it and she has been quite emotionally messed up. So this week I said if she needed some space it was fine, and she said that she'd like a bit of space but she still would like to see me this week, at the weekend. So I decided to jump the gun and initiated my exit plan. I told her how much I liked her, wanted her and for her to take some space to figure out what she wants to do, including where I fit in all that, etc. I explained to her how I feel about her, I really want her to be my girlfriend not a fk-buddy. And explained that the situation was torturing me and she needed to make decision and should take some space to do that. Basically i rationalised that if she'd get back with the bf next week then I would know this is over anyway, so I pre-empted that and shot a hail mary. Felt like the right time to give her a decision to make. I told her let's do a time-out to see how she feels and to see what happens. She needs some space. I do too. She responded positively and said she understood that im trying to do whats right for her and me, even though it feels like the wrong thing to do. Her reply was good, didn't seem annoyed or anything, maybe a bit passive aggressive though and said that the timeout would be effective immediately. I get a vibe that she is pissed off, either with me or the situation. But she would never tell me that. That was yesterday.
So today I notice that she has unfollowed me on instagram, but still friends on facebook. I dont have her phone number so fb is the only way she can contact me. I thought that was a bit weird deleting me off instagram. Can I read anything into that? So am not sure now if she is pissed off, etc and whether I did the right thing. As explained, I want this girl as a girlfriend, there's great compatibility, etc but I wonder if I did the right thing to time-out when she is having emotional drama with her bf. Never a good time for that, I guess.
So my plan is to go no contact for a while and see what happens. I've done it before and she always came back within about 3 weeks, but this time I fear it might be properly finished. So am not sure what to do. But am ready to walk away if I have to. One thing I have learned, is that guys: girls with boyfriends are a hell of a lot of emotional baggage. Her relationship is dead in the water in my opinion, if not now then later, but I also know that does not mean she will want to jump straight into something right away with me. To be honest, I would be fine seeing her if she was single, and even letting her date other dudes. Didnt tell her that though. Just dont want to be banging a chick with the bf issue attached.
SORRY FOR THE ESSAY!!
Any advice is much appreciated!! If you got some questions, then please ask!!
Thanks,
Finn
