Help! I don't know what to say after I open! (Daygame)

[Edd--19]

So recently I've been getting a bit frustrated that I can't seem to build any form of connection with girls over daygame. I get some numbers but most of them don't pan out and most of my approaches I do die out within seconds. I'm handling my fundamentals when I open but I still struggle with what to say after I open.

I understand that it doesn't matter what I say, but how I say it. But I get stuck in this loop of asking really boring questions hoping that something will come along that I can use... Which of course happens rarely. When it does go well, I'm good.

I'm fine with this in night game, it's pre-dominantly a day game issue. I seem to be messing up, somewhere, big time but I don't know where.

I usually go in direct, give my name and then ask "how's your day going?" I've tried different things but most things drop. I've done a few routines and they get me a little further but something just breaks.

It could be a fundamental issue, I haven't ruled it out. I'm focusing on keeping them strong throughout my approach. However, I get into the mindset that I don't know what to say. Sure, I say shit but it means nothing if it's boring. I can make girls laugh some of the time but nothing seems consistent.

And when I get inconsistency I get stuck in my head and go crazy trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I have had a kind of breakthrough. Mostly focusing on my fundamentals and not giving too much attention straight away but then other times I still fuck it up. It's driving me a little nuts. I can do the shit that comes after it, but this issue I have keeps pushing me back.

Like I said, it's mostly a daygame issue and at night I get through it rather easily. Are there any tips from people who have struggled on the same thing? I don't mind any suggestions as this is getting to me again.

Thanks.

 

[Fuck This]

Asking leading questions to get her to talk more about herself instead of "yes" or "no" answers.

Instead of "do you live here in town?" ask "Where do you call home?" This opens up a conversation about current and past places she has lived, and whether here is considered "Home" or where she grew up. There is a good chance she may mention somewhere you have been. Follow that commonality. "Oh I visited there last summer, it gets wicked hot in the summer..." or something like that.

Steer the conversation to something you are an expert in. Without bragging of course.

Anytime you can get a girl to talk about herself and her passions you learn a little more about what makes her tick.

Then go for the number or better yet nail down a time to meet and say "setup a time to talk more about xyz...."cause I've got an appointment waiting"

 

[Estate]

If you're getting stuck, I think it's ok to prepare a little "stack".

Just a few topics you'll roll into.
Go out a few days, and just practice the approach. One or two qeuestions for a few approaches.
Then 3 or 4.
The add some statements.
Then do the same but instead of some questions, add statements.

Have this all prepared... no shame in that practicing.

Next, start with a few prepped questions but concentrate on trying to make some statements about her or where you are... just basically practicing a few things off the cuff.

Do all that without expecting a number or anything more. You're just practicing.

I get into days sometimes where I'm just the same, I;m just not feeling talkative and can't roll with it. It usually comes with momentum. Once you're comfortable saying the same few things to different strangers to strike up conversation, you'll relax and it'll be easier to be off the cuff.

Obviously from there, see how you can move on to getting a number or a date or something... baby steps, take the presure off yourself, if you're just not feeling it in that moment.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Yes this was my problem for a good 6 months into learning game, and lingered for a good 6 months after that.

Shit I still run into this occasionally.

A lot of it for me was just having a stale, vanilla, boring vibe.

You can have vanilla and chode conversation when you have fundamentals/vibe of high value but until then it's best to be polarizing and break girls out of autopilot.

But I get stuck in this loop of asking really boring questions hoping that something will come along that I can use

Stop asking boring questions. Get creative with your conversation. You MUST break these girls out of autopilot if your not getting instant attraction regularly (her eyes dilate and she looks at you like bamby).

Be more polarizing... this is probably your main issue to be honest.

See here: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10206

I usually go in direct, give my name and then ask "how's your day going?" I've tried different things but most things drop. I've done a few routines and they get me a little further but something just breaks.

When your experienced you can communicate via subcommunication or vibe. Then you can get away with "hows your day going?" because you're vibe/energy with the girl is enough to break her out of autopilot.

However when you're not at the level "hows your day going?" can very quickly derail a conversation into going nowhere.

Instead ask more polarizing questions and give polarizing answers to questions she asks you.

Exp.
Girl: What do you study?
You: Bondage and discipline.. 50 shades of grey was very inspirational to me
or
Girl: What do you do?
You: I raise cats in my mothers basement. It's quite a lucrative business actually.

Watch youtube infield of guys with fun/playful/engaging/polarizing vibes on youtube and emulate that. I think that Sasha Daygame does a good job as well as GoodLookingLoser.

Comments? Questions?

-Rob

 

[Smith]

Edd,

know exactly how you feel man. Whenever my mind goes blank these days, I just say "you look like you do something artistic!" or "so what do you like to do?"
I like the second one better, because it gets them tell you about their hobbies and the conversation is more interesting that way. The most important part in the conversation is still relating to how they feel, not necessary the logical facts they give you. If they tell you about a hobby they're passionate about but you have no experience in, you can relate to them by telling them about a hobby you're passionate about as well. Try to convey the same emotion as the other person. This is something I noticed from my female friends. They always relate to the other person by relating to how they feel.

Practice being self-amused. Do this exercise everyday - talk to the wall. Pick a random topic, then start talking to the wall about it for a good 5-15 mins. Say whatever is on your mind and what's funny to you, but try to keep it about personal stories. Remember you're talking to the wall..you don't need to impress. You just need to enjoy talking and sharing about yourself. Once you know how to push your own button and get into that flow state, you'll notice you start talk like this with people you meet and the conversation is just flows naturally.

Also get into your body during the interaction, which helps you stay present to the moment. Concentrate on the feeling inside your body. Stop using direct openers as a crutch to get her attention. You can still tell her she's beautiful, but it's going to fall flat if there's no subcommunications to back it up, which comes good eye contact and voice. I wouldn't say this is "advance", because it's something you can work on right now as well and it's far more important than trying to figure out what to say.

 

[Edd--19]

Many thanks for the great respsonses!

Asking leading questions to get her to talk more about herself instead of "yes" or "no" answers.

Instead of "do you live here in town?" ask "Where do you call home?" This opens up a conversation about current and past places she has lived, and whether here is considered "Home" or where she grew up. There is a good chance she may mention somewhere you have been. Follow that commonality. "Oh I visited there last summer, it gets wicked hot in the summer..." or something like that.

On commonality. I've started to do this a little more when I looked over Chase's E-book; mostly on how the genders communicate. It does work and it did help me get my Fr:+ and another cute girls number whom I've got to setup a date with. It is/was something that was an issue with me but slowly working on it.

I'll keep a conscious eye out for when I do use the boring questions, especially the closed ones. It does sound like something I'd do.

If you're getting stuck, I think it's ok to prepare a little "stack".

Just a few topics you'll roll into.
Go out a few days, and just practice the approach. One or two qeuestions for a few approaches.
Then 3 or 4.
The add some statements.
Then do the same but instead of some questions, add statements.

Have this all prepared... no shame in that practicing.

I like this prep idea, I'll give it a some implementation. Currently I'm at home; catching up with everyone. It does mean my time cold approaching kinda vanishes as I live in a rural town that takes a while to get to anywhere. I'll find sometime to give it a good going at. I'll start, as you've said, to try a couple of topics and inquire about them. I'll attempt to make them different and interesting instead of the usual shit I do.

Yes this was my problem for a good 6 months into learning game, and lingered for a good 6 months after that.

Shit I still run into this occasionally.

A lot of it for me was just having a stale, vanilla, boring vibe.

You can have vanilla and chode conversation when you have fundamentals/vibe of high value but until then it's best to be polarizing and break girls out of autopilot.

But I get stuck in this loop of asking really boring questions hoping that something will come along that I can use

Stop asking boring questions. Get creative with your conversation. You MUST break these girls out of autopilot if your not getting instant attraction regularly (her eyes dilate and she looks at you like bamby).

Be more polarizing... this is probably your main issue to be honest.

See here: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10206

I think you've got it here, Rob. I've considered this for a while and I guess I was slightly nervous to give the stuff a go. I have that very tab open right next to this one and am giving a couple of the options a look through and trying them out. It's gotten something behind it, even with my family, I know they've noticed how dominant I've become and all of a sudden they're deferring to me; it's quite weird. It is a mix of polarising and fundamentals, however. With girls, though, I'm not sure when I would start being polarising. Could you give a conversation example? You would help me and save yourself time in the future for anyone else who stumbles upon this sticking point.

The vanilla conversation, I think, is just safe territory for me. I can get numbers with it, but far and few inbetween. I also don't like how I rely on the girl to inject differentness into the interaction. I believe you've got this one; nail on the head stuff.

Edd,

know exactly how you feel man. Whenever my mind goes blank these days, I just say "you look like you do something artistic!" or "so what do you like to do?"
I like the second one better, because it gets them tell you about their hobbies and the conversation is more interesting that way. The most important part in the conversation is still relating to how they feel, not necessary the logical facts they give you. If they tell you about a hobby they're passionate about but you have no experience in, you can relate to them by telling them about a hobby you're passionate about as well. Try to convey the same emotion as the other person. This is something I noticed from my female friends. They always relate to the other person by relating to how they feel.

Smith, I got this from the male and female conversation styles. And you're right. It is the best way to go about it and I wasn't doing it. I've noted that interjecting girls when they talk is actually a huge thing. Even if what I'm saying seems meaningless to me it changes their attitude if I do or don't interrupt. If I do I get a better reception; jarring when I first tried it.

However, I have to side with Rob on this. Most conversation I have are pretty darn boring. Polarising will cut out the girls go to responses. I'll keep this, but I think it's more a tool for rapport or when the girl is talking. I like it, it's a good solution and it works. I think I'll come back to it in a little when I can cut out auto-piloting. Thanks nonetheless.

Edd

 

[Smith]

Edd,

no worries! I had to polarize my conversation as well, which means more teasing and saying more outlandish stuff and going into sexual topics, but here's something I heard from Todd today at his Webinar "game is the seasoning, not the steak. The steak is the connection building." So I think maybe you're not mixing flirting, teasing and be more challenging in your conversation. My goal in the conversation is always fun first then connection building. If you want examples of polarizing, check out RSD Julien, Tyler or Max's videos. They always say crazy stuff to the girl that can be borderline rude but it's fun. When you're having fun, you can get away with a lot of stuff so that's why I think having fun should always come first in a conversation.

 

[ProblemSolving]

What do you want to know about her? Ask her what ever you want, just be warm and pleasant about it. When I approach, I ask a ton of boring questions: What are you up to today? Where do you work or go to school? How do you like it? Where are you from? You are Chinese, Latina, Filipino, Persian? How do you like it compared to where you're from? You look like you squat. Where do you workout? Girls love to talk about themselves, so let them, all you have to do is set them up.

Occasionally, you'll run into girls who like you, but aren't super comfortable talking about themselves. They feel more comfortable listening than they do talking, so just talk about whatever you're up to that day.

Honestly, the words barely matter. I've talked to girls for a few minutes, talking about nothing but fluff (school, work, or race), and they were super eager to see me again. I've also talked to chicks where we make a deep connection about her hopes, dream etc and I never see them again. What matters is that you look good, can carry a conversation like a normal person, and that she's sexual available (i.e: she's open to meeting new men).

Here's a video example of this point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKLyuwd9uhU&spfreload=10

 

[Skid]

I'm going to agree with rob. Calibration is extremely important it took me ages to realize this and polarizing is the best way to get there , doing things that aren't normal and asking girls for compliance for things that isn't normal - sticking to your safe corner of what you know is a sure way to slow down your learning curve a lot. Especially if you're literally just starting and have poor social skills. When I first started I did a shit load of cold reading that was insanely random , telling girls that they looked like materialists or goths right after complimenting them , just tease and tease and tease again especially if your a nice guy. And ask for tons of compliance , you'll probably get shut down a lot on the compliance side but meh it gets better as you improve. See how much you can push a girls buttons. Then you can sorta just chill , these days after the compliment I literally ask her what she is doing figuring out logistics to see if how much time we have whether its coffee now or later. But until you get girls responding positively to your initial approach on a regular basis - ie their eyes go big they, they look down , or qualify themselves alot, or look really excited -you need to polarize more + work on fundamentals.

As far as actual content goes just look at the girl see if you can create a story about her before you open , her boots might look like the shoes from wizard of oz and tease her telling her that she would make a good actor for the movie lols. Continue saying she probably wants to be an actor if not she can correct you on her choice of career. This does 2 things for a new guy -

1. verbal polarizing getting out of your comfort zone teaching you calibration - learning your boundaries

2. It creates an entertaining conversation for the girl (and you!) so she sticks around because of the fun convo so you get to practice more. You don't usually need to worry to much about offending her since your fundamentals aren't down and she is probably staying to be polite , so she'll think its cute. You only need to worry about offending girls (or auto rejecting)when you get better I feel , when they really care about what you say about them because they like you or at the least because they see you as a high value man.

 

[HellAtlantic]

What do you want to know about her? Ask her what ever you want, just be warm and pleasant about it. When I approach, I ask a ton of boring questions: What are you up to today? Where do you work or go to school? How do you like it? Where are you from? You are Chinese, Latina, Filipino, Persian? How do you like it compared to where you're from? You look like you squat. Where do you workout? Girls love to talk about themselves, so let them, all you have to do is set them up.

Occasionally, you'll run into girls who like you, but aren't super comfortable talking about themselves. They feel more comfortable listening than they do talking, so just talk about whatever you're up to that day.

Honestly, the words barely matter. I've talked to girls for a few minutes, talking about nothing but fluff (school, work, or race), and they were super eager to see me again. I've also talked to chicks where we make a deep connection about her hopes, dream etc and I never see them again. What matters is that you look good, can carry a conversation like a normal person, and that she's sexual available (i.e: she's open to meeting new men).

Here's a video example of this point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKLyuwd9uhU&spfreload=10

I really like this advice. Ppl overlook how looking good is half the battle. The rest is not shooting yourself in your own foot by doing or saying anything outlandish that would cause her to pause and question if you're a normal guy or not. Look good and have a normal convo is really 50-60% of the interaction. Great advice bro.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Could you give a conversation example?

I'll use a few examples based off conversations I've had in the past.

Me: Excuse me but you have an amazing ass (high risk, high reward)
Her: Oh my god! Haha thank you! But honestly a little too aggressive for shopping at Publix
Me: Yeah I think most guys are creepy as fuck checking women out while they aren't watching. I respect you boundaries but I prefer honesty in all forms of relationships don't you?
Her: Haha I can agree with that... SO we're in a relationship now???
Me: For the time being it appears so now doesn't it? My name is Robert, who are you?
Her: Hi Robert, I'm Francine and..
Me: (Mid sentence I throw my 3 grocery items in her cart) Relationship just got deeper, lets talk and shop babe (Put hand on the small of her back and start leading her towards the diary section where you need to pick some shit up at)
Her: Uhm haha Okay!
Me: So tell me your story Francine! How on earth did you end up in MY city? (said playfully)
Her: Oh your city huh? (Also said playfully)
Me: (Stop and slowly touch her face gently pulling her chin towards your face while giving strong eye contact) Please Francine, don't embarrass me in front of all these people I'll never see again. Now! Your story I'm quite interested
Her: Omg fine! So anyway blah blah blah

Obviously there are a few areas here where being playful as Smith mentioned comes into play and are extremely important otherwise you come off as some socially dominant destructo that is uncalibrated. But if you're obviously playful and fun it comes off as this exciting role play. Thus vibe is crucial.

Also you see I PUSH the girl verbally a bit but not to the point of insulting her (which a lot of guys get into the habit of doing with PUSH/PULL) unless she's attracted enough and your obviously joking.

An example on a HARD PUSH.

Assume we've been talking about sex and our favorite positions.

Her: ... and I also think it's super hot when a guy pins me against a wall while making love to me!
Me: God you such a whore you disgust me beyond no end
Her: (Slaps your chest hard) You asshole!!! HAHAHA
Me: I'm just kidding girl (you pull her into you for a sexual hug)

For that last example you would have already MUST communicate you're non-judgemental and shared something dirtier than what she just said.

These are VERY polarizing examples that are congruent to my style of game. What do you think? Think you can adapt to you or work to this level?

-Rob

 

[NarrowJ]

I still have this happen.

Saturday night there was this really hot girl that came in the bar I was at. Tall and blonde with nice tits and amazing legs. She'd came in by herself and was talking with my friends and I and had told us that she just moved here from Missouri. I knew she was looking for dick. Later on in the evening, I had waved her over to me and she immediately got right up, smiled, and walked about 20 feet toward me. And then? Well I was so damn nervous I didn't have a thing to say to her! Haha it was fucking embarrassing.

Although, you'll be happy to know that this gradually happens less and less as you get more experienced. The more social situations you put yourself into, the more you'll know how to handle, and let loose of that little voice in your head. Don't be thinking about other stuff, or you'll get lost in conversations. At first, you'll need to concentrate pretty hard, but over time you'll just naturally be in the moment and all that background noise fades away.


J.J.

 

[Edd--19]

Many thanks for all of the responses and replies!! I'm going to implement as many of these things as possible and build my way up.

I've been doing a little visualisation to garner some pseudo-experience and plan to put this into action tomorrow. I've been working on my non-verbals a lot, this week not so much (been relaxing at home, recharging the batteries), going to hit the road running again and get as much experience as I can on these things. I'll be hoping to post some more FR's and hopefully LR's soon but that depends on how much I learn.

Once again, thanks. Any more advice will be more than welcome. Talk soon!