Help to work on some Fundamentals SPs

[Witcher]

Hey Everyone !!

After times and times ignoring the very well advice here on working on fundamentals first and not on verbal ju-jitsu to get girls all this because this gave me some amout fo reaction.

i decided to put more work on my Fundamentals as my tool of attraction if i can get to correct some of them easily i have some issue with other. So ask here some questions to get ride of this :

1) How to practice and get better fundamentals in geenral?

2)On Conversation :
Crrently even if i'am a pretty good conversationaliste with most of the perons i meet i still have some holes that become so ingrained in me that they are more reflexe than anything these ones are :
A)Ethusiasm and slowness : since i'am shot, and mediterannean i tend to speak wiht a lot of energy and this is not that much sexy and i use a lot of fats hand gesture. I speak loudly too and not so deeply. I can do it on times but i have to do a lot of self control.
B)letting the others do the talk : Many time in meeting my partners told me "Witcher, please let the others talk too" .i'am not a nercissit by any mean but i have a pronounced personality and i love also to share so i tend to talk a lot too espetially whe the person is not talkative. I also have this "reflexe" to always add some comment when someone is doing the talking and cutting them with my (benevolent) participation. I now all this stuff on intelectual level but when i talk in sspontaneous manner things get out of control.
C)Eye conact many tims i found my self turining eye conact when someone is taking too me in a "Bof i'am not interested manner" this came from the time when i was too nice so i inverted the polarity too much as i can think.
D)I speak too fast

3)Fast mouvements
I have really fast mouvement , like i have difficult beign smooth and slow in my moving and body langauge until i hae to do it purposfully like when i need to do a presentation in school , here i'am a fairly good public speaker.

4)On framing and empathy
Like when we speak about interacting with other 2 distincs ways are dispalyed :
-winning frame encouters and making the other person fellow our own frame
-Showing understanding like in deep diving
In my social life i have really thoug time when it comes to when to use one or another , like when i need to hold my frame and make other person see the things in my point of view OR when i need to show empathy and understanding and by this way making people comply too me.
Like in articles one way is said to elicit resitance and the other weakness or making people see you as strong and who empower them.
Exemple from my own life :
Many time some people tell me that i'am "RIGID" when i hold on my idea when someone didn't give m enough evidence or arguments. Sometimes is true but most of the time is just an attend to "controle me"!!
Second when i comply to ones term when i didi'nt get enough evidence and even when i do sometimes i can see that my esteem in them just get little lower. All this even if i demonstarted empathy and have been conviced by facts.


So help to get some asnwers !! THX

 

[Witcher]

No-Help

 

[D_Smooth1900]

Honestly, I think you just have to be more observant and just slow down. It sounds to me like your always attacking and making the moves. Just kick back and relax and see how it goes.

-Smooth

 

[Drck]

It seems that you would benefit of reading about Nice Guy. What he does, how he behaves, and why he can't get a girl. This way you can understand better why Nice Guy is not so attractive - he can have lots of pretty girls around as friends but none of them want to sleep with him.

Also learn more about Alpha male behavior, try to learn/copy it. "Alpha male" is outdated today, but still, there is lots of good behavior to learn from this model.

Slow down, meditate, learn to be more mature. You might be too anxious. Children talk without listening to others. Mature people listen first, then they think, sort what is facts and what is BS, form some argument - and only then they talk. You might have low masculine energy (just an impression), if that's the case definitely work on increasing it.

On the other hand, there is lots of good things you can use in your benefit, for example it looks that you are rather outgoing, extrovert. That's good, definitely keep it, you can use lots of the energy into your benefit. Lots of talking is better than not talking at all, so just learn to talk about important thing, and of course give a space to others.

Holding to some of your ideas and being ridgid is actually good, at least up to some point. It will give you the right amount of "assholeness", you do things your way regardless what other people say. Just make sure that you chose the right ideas and right facts that you want to be stubborn on. Make sure you find some logic in it, use common sense. You don't want to be "stuck" in some silly, awkward and weird theories that totally miss the point, and then be happy because nobody else can understand you...

I wouldn't try to become classical "Alpha" who says three words every three days, rather listen and learn from good speakers, e.g. Listen to radio talk shows and improve your talking to your own benefit. You of course want to find some facts first, and based on the facts you want to develop solid arguments. You don't want to be like a great politician who after each great speech needs a toilet paper to wipe his mouth, so he can 'appear' sincere again...

 

[pks391]

When you talk with a girl, learn to use the art of genuine jnterest described by Chase in his articles. You must develop a genuine interest in other people. I naturally possess this interest so its simpler. Also you should use eye contact, make a little wisecrack every now and then. Kinda like a Fred and George, Jack Sparrow kinda comment to lighten the mood but set a flirtatious tone, I've found girls react good to this stuff here in India, donno about girls overseas...

 

[Witcher]

It seems that you would benefit of reading about Nice Guy. What he does, how he behaves, and why he can't get a girl. This way you can understand better why Nice Guy is not so attractive - he can have lots of pretty girls around as friends but none of them want to sleep with him.

Also learn more about Alpha male behavior, try to learn/copy it. "Alpha male" is outdated today, but still, there is lots of good behavior to learn from this model.

Slow down, meditate, learn to be more mature. You might be too anxious. Children talk without listening to others. Mature people listen first, then they think, sort what is facts and what is BS, form some argument - and only then they talk. You might have low masculine energy (just an impression), if that's the case definitely work on increasing it.

On the other hand, there is lots of good things you can use in your benefit, for example it looks that you are rather outgoing, extrovert. That's good, definitely keep it, you can use lots of the energy into your benefit. Lots of talking is better than not talking at all, so just learn to talk about important thing, and of course give a space to others.

Holding to some of your ideas and being ridgid is actually good, at least up to some point. It will give you the right amount of "assholeness", you do things your way regardless what other people say. Just make sure that you chose the right ideas and right facts that you want to be stubborn on. Make sure you find some logic in it, use common sense. You don't want to be "stuck" in some silly, awkward and weird theories that totally miss the point, and then be happy because nobody else can understand you...

I wouldn't try to become classical "Alpha" who says three words every three days, rather listen and learn from good speakers, e.g. Listen to radio talk shows and improve your talking to your own benefit. You of course want to find some facts first, and based on the facts you want to develop solid arguments. You don't want to be like a great politician who after each great speech needs a toilet paper to wipe his mouth, so he can 'appear' sincere again...

Good stuff here, but i'am disagree a little withg the firts part and when i t comes to the nice guy.

When iwas in my early teens i can say that i had many characteritics of the Nice Guy (Taken from articles and from the classcial one "No More Mr Nice guy)" But now in my early-min 20s i can say that i'am far from this, i wil anywas take a second reading to double check.

Now the observation i have from people is that i'am sometimes too agressiv, cocky arrorgantt,asshole etc.Now most of the times i ask more my self about "I should have been more flexible, more nice, more diplomatic" than "I sould have been more hard or more of asshole" .

I will ask you for more clarification on this point.

On the other hand i'am attractive to some women and most fo them are rather quality ones that lebel be more as "benevolent asshole"; "Pretty little bastard".

When you spoke about Masculine energy, here i want you toi developpe because perhaps it's something i'am missing.

By the way your part about beign more mature in my conversation this is what i want t become more, perhaps is because years ago iwas too "intorvert" so i polarized a lot for the other side. And most of the times is an urge to "add something", or to share an idea. But it's somewheat a caracteristic of my people i remeber europeans students that were in my country for 5 weeks all had the same observation about Algerian people "You lawyas cut people in the middle of their talk".

When you talk with a girl, learn to use the art of genuine jnterest described by Chase in his articles. You must develop a genuine interest in other people. I naturally possess this interest so its simpler. Also you should use eye contact, make a little wisecrack every now and then. Kinda like a Fred and George, Jack Sparrow kinda comment to lighten the mood but set a flirtatious tone, I've found girls react good to this stuff here in India, donno about girls overseas...

I'am very interested in other people and geenrally curious, but i like to share many things too and since i'am a person who can extratc many infirmation from a single exeprience i found myself sharin and sharing. Espetially when the ther person is not the best conversationalist. But i will re check the articles again.

Honestly, I think you just have to be more observant and just slow down. It sounds to me like your always attacking and making the moves. Just kick back and relax and see how it goes.

-Smooth

yes i'am in my mode "High effort high reward", since iwas very passive years ago o worked a lot to be more agressive but it seems that it is turning againist me.

 

[Drck]

"i tend to speak wiht a lot of energy and this is not that much sexy and i use a lot of fats hand gesture. I speak loudly too and not so deeply. I can do it on times but i have to do a lot of self control."

There are different personalities, for example, usually "alpha male" behavior is being portrayed by e.g. Clint Eastwood (there are of course many other great examples: Ben Affleck, Russell Crowe,...):

* Does he uses a lot of hand gestures?
* Does he speak too loudly?
* Does he speak so much that others can't talk at all?
* Does he speak too fast?
* Does he let other people to control him?

So I'm not saying that you should become Clint Eastwood, but you are pretty much doing the exact opposite. You can just 'feel' that such guy has a spine. He says only what he means, yet can still have great conversations. He does what he wants regardless what others think and so on. Watch his voice, rather deeper and slower, calm. He doesn't spread too much exciting energy around, he's rather slower, he encloses his energy within himself... When he looks in your eyes he looks in your eyes, he doesn't move away...

Also watch some comedians on TV: They have lots of energy, they spread laughter and humor around, they are clever and witty, most people get really excited by watching them... They also talk lots of sex and dirty stuff (at least in USA), they pretend to masturbate on the podium and so on - but how many of them really get laid with ease? Not too many. They have exciting personalities, they talk sex all the time - but they are not really that sexy...

Look at Mike Tyson, you probably wouldn't want to stand too close to his face and stare in his eyes, he would sweep the floor with you in no time. That's a true Alpha, there is no acting, there is no pretending, there is no faking. It is just a pure energy, phenomenon. Yet his voice is totally different, rather high pitched and fast. He doesn't need any sexy smiles or walks, he doesn't need any deep diving or clever openers - yet he probably slept with hundreds of women, if not thousands... Does he know any seduction skills? I'm just guessing, but IMO zero. Similarly, look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, he was also getting laid left and right, with minimal or no seduction skills at all...

Again, I am not saying that if you are an extrovert and outgoing that you should try to behave like Eastwood or other guys. Depending on your personality it may be totally counterproductive. Rather, you may just want to explore some of the 'features' and add them to your personality.

I know personally guys who are quite outgoing and extroverted, they spread a lot of energy around, and they are also quite sexy. You could easily describe them many times as 'Nice Guys' but don't be mistaken: They do get laid a lot, they have great vibes and are rather more natural. They are usually (but not always) from e.g. Cuba, Caribbean, Brazil... These guys can be models for Mr. "Nice Guy" but again, the women they pull is just unbelievable. They don't even have much seduction skills, just some simple game. Just can't think about some good actor that is like that, but that would probably fit your style better...

So you should take the 'seduction' skills with some reserve. What works great for some guys may not work at all for others. For example, you may already be an arrogant asshole enough, so adding more of asshole-ness and arrogance will only hurt you. You may already be sexy enough, so learning sexy walks and smiles may not give you any benefits at all. On the other hand, if some guy is serious and morose enough, he may actually quite benefit from learning some politeness and smiles of 'Nice Guy'... It is all just relative...


Anyway, just some ideas to explore in stead of 'do this and that'...

 

[pks391]

You need to let the other person talk about themselves and only share something about yourself when you want to relate, teach or tell a story.