Help with potential new MLTR, starting an open LTR

[Dude909]

I find that it's useful to set a once a week meet right from the start. It's just more congruent. Other people have no problem setting that frame later on though.

But this is a detail. What matters here is that you are developing serious oneitis. Two dates, no sex and you are already planning the wedding party and naming the kids! Slow WAY down man. Get her out of your head. Start seeing her casually for a few months, get to actually know her, and if she's really that great you can then think about upgrading her then.

 

[Zoro]

I'm actually in a new open relationship right now.

I saw her 4 times in the past 2 weeks, she also sleeps over every time, and I met her friends and we do dates if I feel like it. (I break all the rules). I let her know exactly what she should expect from this relationship (I will have sex with other women whenever I want.) on the 3rd date. I am completely okay with her walking away if she's not okay with this and even encourage her to do so if she is uncomfortable.

I had an open relationship last year as well.

Reagrding that one,

I followed the advice for causal relationships much closer.

I only saw her once a week, but she'd sleep over every time and we'd have lots of good sex. We never went out on dates (one movie because we both were really into seeing it.) I didn't explain what she should expect from the relationship because I think I set a very strong, dominant, and attractive frame that communicated what she should expect well, right from the get go.
We saw each other for almost 5 or 6 months until valentines hit and shook the whole thing down. It ended very easy, like a fade to black. She just made a few excuses to not meet up and not offer to reschedule 2 weekends in a row, which was uncharacteristic and I took the hint.

I'd say its not what you do, but how you do it. Are you communicating what she can expect well? Are you high value enough to keep her around? Are you comfortable with her seeing other men and her walking away?

I think those are the main issues. And of course, making sure she is happy and comfortable with the arrangement and if she's not, be responsible enough to let her go.

 

[Franco]

radeng,

First of all, take note of Dude909's advice of course. Try to train yourself to not think about women in this way until you've slept with them. It's generally bad form as it can lead to mistakes you'll make with her due to one-itis. So assume she's just another possible lay and nothing more until that happens.

1)How does date compression, aka seeing her a lot in the first two weeks until we get to sex, affect the initial frame. I don't mind having a bit of a bf role in this ones life, but I definitely want the relationship to be open.

It's completely fine if the girl is very into you. Usually date compression is best used on a girl who is very much into you (and probably wanting to sleep with you) but has forced herself to not sleep with you on the first date to make sure she does not feel slutty (and also checks off the other "possible boyfriend" boxes on her checklist). If a girl isn't interested in sex with you by the end of the first date, then date compression probably won't do much for you as she isn't checking off boxes on her list; she's simply along for the free ride until you call it quits.

As far as the "open" relationship aspect... it probably hurts this a bit. You have more dominance and control if you bed her on the first date, and if she thinks your attainability is pretty damn low (but she still slept with you anyway), then she'll be much more likely to see an open relationship as a possibility.

The thing you want to keep in mind about "open" relationships is that they are primarily based on the personality of the girl -- if she isn't completely liberal and open to this idea, she either won't accept it or she'll cause massive amounts of drama if she does (because she doesn't really want it). So don't assume that open relationships are something that are super common, especially with girls that are very high value. They have too many suitors to be engaging in relationships that don't suit their long-term goals.

I feel like its a bit weak to keep scheduling the dates at the next possible free interval for both of us. Should I just play it now like I have laid her and see her once a week until sex happens, because I know it will, or should I continue down the date compression path to get to sex faster? Im feeling like scheduling these dates so close together is coming off as needy.

Continue the date compression and schedule quick dates. As I mentioned above, this works on girls who are very into you, so if you suddenly start changing your strategy, she'll get mixed signals or go into auto-rejection to protect herself and assume you aren't as interested in her as she originally thought.

2)Also, if I do really see her as potential GF material, is it ok to set the relationship frame from the beginning? or should I keep her at a bit more length for a while until she's just really into the sexual aspect of the relationship? I obviously would naturally like to see her more, but I want to do whats best for all my competing interests here. Theoretically, I think this is the answer, but honestly, its new territory for me here even considering this stuff, so Id like to hear some more opinions. Is it better to just not think of it as anything long term at all? Its pretty tough for me not to honestly.

Always start things slowly after you've finally bedded her, meaning seeing her mostly for sex and not all the boyfriend-like stuff. This is true for any relationship you want to start with a woman, whether that be casual, open, or monogamous. It's always easier to build into things later, and you can make her be the one who chases those things and sees those things as "hard" to get from you.

You can see her multiple times a week, but do not "court" her. See her multiple times a week because her body and personality make you horny as all hell, and you just want to drill her brains out every time she comes over. Let her be the one to suggest other things, and then incorporate them slowly. Once she brings up the idea of monogamy, that's when you tell her your stance and be very clear that you would be available for an "open" relationship with her, but you're not at a point in your life where you're ready to start seeing only one woman.

Be prepared for her to not be open to this though, so don't assume it will happen. Be ready to let her go if this is the case.

- Franco

 

[mb1]

So don't assume that open relationships are something that are super common, especially with girls that are very high value. They have too many suitors to be engaging in relationships that don't suit their long-term goals.

Hey Franco, I've been worried about this one. Do you think we're all doomed to eventual monogamy and pickup's just a skill to up the average quality of abundant options until we all inevitably settle?

SHIT

 

[Franco]

mb1,

Hey Franco, I've been worried about this one. Do you think we're all doomed to eventual monogamy and pickup's just a skill to up the average quality of abundant options until we all inevitably settle?

Not necessarily, although if you were to ask me to gamble on whether or not a guy would be married (or at least settle into monogamy with a girl) at a certain point in his life, then I would place my bet on "yes, he will" almost every single time.

The problem with almost every type of relationship other than monogamy is that it requires a great deal of effort to manage/maintain, and it often requires being willing to let go of certain relationships and go back into the field to establish new ones. When you're doing that repeatedly for years and years on end, you're more than likely to get tired of the whole thing and just look to focus on other important aspects of your life, which may or may not also involve having children to pass on your genes.

Also, unless you've lived a very "successful" life career-wise, trying to bring in new women in your 50s and 60s becomes much more difficult. No woman is looking to bang a guy in his 50s or 60s that never accomplished anything in life; they want the guy who has already proven his success and is high-value. So unless you are high value at that point, then you're not going to be attracting many women anymore.

So the majority of men will probably end up wanting monogamy. It's not necessarily something to be "doomed" too as it might come from a choice that was made with other intentions (i.e. I'm really loving this business that I'm developing, and I don't want to spend more time picking up women. I have a great woman now, so I want to focus on having children to spread my genes and making my business expand and become my legacy).

Other priorities begin to come up once you've already spent a great deal of time sleeping with women. So it's not hard to believe that most guys settle down at some point. That's not to say that every guy will, but most guys will.

- Franco

 

[ray_zorse]

So it sounds like the problem is in escalating to sex once you get her home, and that you also feel the date doesn't contain enough sexual tension, it's too much of a friendly hangout, so you're getting friendzoned? And she isn't turning off the tap completely, but is unenthusiastic?

Yes, this happened to me late last year and I fixed it with sexual framing, but this has revealed itself to me as a double edged sword since it's too high-effort and I think once you reach a certain level of sexiness, too much sexual framing can hurt rather than help (attainability maybe?).

I'm surprised you're having this problem because from what it sounds like, your fundamentals are pretty much on lock, since your advice to really focus on the eye contact (to the point of staring) and using less touch to build tension, I really built a lot more attraction than before, you're doing this?

It also happened to me quite a few times this year (either pulling and not being able to escalate, or not pulling in the time available because the vibe was wrong) and I diagnosed the issue as the date being too much of a friendly hangout DUE TO MY BEING TIRED AND NOT BEING ENOUGH OF A CHALLENGE.

I strongly suspect this is the issue you're having -- having become a very sexual man it's easy to get lazy and forget to be a challenge. This is partly about deflecting questions with humour, I find if I stop doing this my results absolutely tank. One of my favourite tricks is to get a theme going... "what do you do?" "I'm a secret agent"... and then whatever she asks you (your age... have you travelled... etc) you relate it back to the theme and give a humorous non-answer. The other thing about being a challenge, and I suggest to review Chase's ebook "How to Make Girls Chase", is to throw on a bored look and to become progressively more engaged as she invests, by turning more of your body to her, rewarding her with touch, smiles and eye contact, but turning your body away and becoming bored again if her investment level drops off. You do this in such a way that it doesn't look reactive (about 10sec delay), but really lets her feel the feedback loop.

I could also recommend Drexel Scott's book "Straight to Sex" which was under $10 IIRC and describes a process for escalating to sex once you pull her home. I haven't implemented the techniques exactly, because I have my own process, but it's definitely interesting and I have certainly taken a few tips from there. Such as giving her a little time to settle in while having sexual items scattered around your home. Since reading the book I've been leaving a big pink vibrator in a makeup case in the bathroom, which I leave unzipped, so that it's not too eye catching but certainly noticeable if you are looking. Sexy coffee table books...??

I don't really have this aspect of my game nailed at the moment so I may be rambling, but I am able to self-diagnose some of my issues, so hopefully this helps.

Ray

 

[Franco]

Radeng,

I guess I should have also mentioned that you should be attempting for a "home date" on the third date if at all possible. If not, the fourth date (if you're willing to go that far). If you keep scheduling dates that give her an opportunity to get you to invest from a "safe" distance, she's going to take them because it only wins points for her and not for you.

Try to schedule a "let's cook dinner together" type of date or something next. If she doesn't seem up for it, then it might be time to cut the contact and see if she comes back and chases you for the home date.

- Franco

 

[Franco]

Radeng,

Plan was to stick in on third date however long it took to escalate to full penetration. Seemed very much like it was headed in right direction until she said "ok shit shit shit, I'm getting dizzy, this means a migraines coming, I'm so sorry I have to leave."

Soo yeah that's where that's at.

Ouch, awkward time to leave. In general, if a girl leaves when you're already in the "escalation/get naked" phase, the chance of her coming back seems much more slim. If she really likes you, though, then you're probably okay.

At this point, don't take her on any more dates that don't involve her coming directly over to your place. You don't want to go backwards here. And, ultimately, you want to seal the deal as soon as possible. =)

- Franco

 

[Kaelos]

It's completely fine if the girl is very into you. Usually date compression is best used on a girl who is very much into you (and probably wanting to sleep with you) but has forced herself to not sleep with you on the first date to make sure she does not feel slutty (and also checks off the other "possible boyfriend" boxes on her checklist). If a girl isn't interested in sex with you by the end of the first date, then date compression probably won't do much for you as she isn't checking off boxes on her list; she's simply along for the free ride until you call it quits.

Franco, I've always done date compression with failed escalations the way that radeng did here (invite her over but results in a failed escalation, invite her over again yet another failed escalation, keep inviting over and escalating until the lay or we don't see each other again).

I saw that in this post, you mention:

If you try to escalate on the first date and fail, it's usually unexpected for her, but it means she's probably sexually attracted to you. So if, on the second date, you suddenly give her something amazing and pull away, she'll be confused because she had been prepping herself to give you LMR on your advances, but then it didn't happen, so now she's not sure WHAT to expect for you. Then of course, you invite her over on the third date, and you strike.

What do you mean by "you suddenly give her something amazing and pull away"? Would love examples to better understand.

 

[Franco]

Kaelos,

What do you mean by "you suddenly give her something amazing and pull away"? Would love examples to better understand.

Usually I make the second date more of a big deal. I might take her out for a relatively "nice" dinner (which is fine if money is not an issue), or I'll take her for a picnic under the stars and a walk on the beach. Basically, you give her something rather romantic and "dreamy" that leaves her drooling over the prospect of how great you are, and then you end the date abruptly afterward without inviting her home (like she thought you might because, if you were doing things correctly, you invited her home on the first date) and leave her wondering whether or not you're going to contact her again for a few days.

When you do contact her again after radio silence for a few days, she'll be extremely excited, and it's much easier to have her agree to a "home" date at that point because she's already excited about the fact that you're talking to her again.

- Franco

 

[ray_zorse]

And yeah I feel like I leave the girls thinking something along the lines of, "wow this guy is great, easy to talk to, I've opened up to him, he's funny and good looking, makes me feel good! He's not a pushover and a bit of a challenge! I wouldn't want to ruin it with sex right away he could be bf material!"

I see, well I think that being more mysterious will help in two ways, firstly building investment "what IS he? why is he so mysterious? is he MARRIED, is he a celebrity who is incognito, is he just being a dick?? why is he PLAYING with me? damn it is frustrating I hate this? can I GET this guy or what?!" and secondly, she won't actually know if you are bf material if she doesn't know anything about you.

You could also consider bf-disqualification. I do not really do this, so I am not sure what to advise, but I have been keen to know how to use an "I have a girlfriend already" disqualifier)l. Also building more attraction through push-pull. I also do not do this except occasionally and pretty weakly "Oh... in that case we cannot be friends anymore", but Mr.Rob has been working on this for a while and reports huge attraction spikes.

Ray

 

[Big Daddy]

Usually I make the second date more of a big deal. I might take her out for a relatively "nice" dinner (which is fine if money is not an issue), or I'll take her for a picnic under the stars and a walk on the beach. Basically, you give her something rather romantic and "dreamy" that leaves her drooling over the prospect of how great you are, and then you end the date abruptly afterward without inviting her home (like she thought you might because, if you were doing things correctly, you invited her home on the first date) and leave her wondering whether or not you're going to contact her again for a few days.

When you do contact her again after radio silence for a few days, she'll be extremely excited, and it's much easier to have her agree to a "home" date at that point because she's already excited about the fact that you're talking to her again.

- Franco

Hmm, last Saturday I went on a coffee date nearby but failed to address some logistics problem before hand. I know I'm the one responsible for addressing these kinds of issues, but having to address them on the fly fucked me up.

But in the girl's eye, she was the one responsible for the fuck up. I'm going to put a report after the (possible) lay, but here's the skinny:

• She seemed really into me before our date;
• She showed up a couple minutes late for our date and arrived saying "I'm sorryyy..." and said she was feeling bad and shit (good sign)
• I communicated that I'm solidly lover material and she seemed very into it because she feels heavily judged;
• A friend of hers invited herself to her place on that day to get dressed because they were going to a festival later that night
• Her friend called and said she was like 15-20 minutes away from her place
• I can't pull home and couldn't go to her place as well; because of this, my go-to strategy has been moving girls to a secluded place (my car), escalating as far as I can there to get them horny, pull away and say "we can't stay here. Let's go to a motel"
• So I led her to my car, got in, 20-sec small talk while we got ourselves comfortable and I kept looking at her. When I noticed she was about to ask "what...?" I leaned in and gone for the kiss and start touching her right away. She was wearing a dress, and I was touching the inside of legs, very close to her pussy the entire time and she was OK with it. I took her hand and put them on my legs and she was also OK with it.
• Her friend kept calling her while we made out and she seemed a little annoyed. Eventually she said "look, I really caan't today. But you can pay me a coffee next week (she paid for mine on that day) and then we hang out" (which I interpreted as "fuck")

She can only do on weekends, so I asked her out on the same coffee shop because logistics-wise it's the best. Don't know if that's moving backwards, but she seemed very receptive to fucking and I felt I could compress a little bit more our date and get out of there earlier after building some tension and fuck her this second time.

Do you think I should change the venue or it's okay to maintain that coffee shop?

 

[mb1]

Thanks for the insight Franco! I'll be watching what you guys talk about in this thread - it's a favourite topic (harems, etc.)

Seems like one of the only ways to do it is to be Bob Dylan:
- be the most respected songwriter ever
- have houses all around
- father children with multiple woman
- tour 10 months of the year

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... ldren.html