Hitting a Brick Wall

[Black]

I'm meeting a lot of girls mostly through parties and gatherings (and some online gaming) and, well, it's two brick walls really. . .

Each week I add two or more new girls to my whatsapp to follow up later.
In person they seem attracted, which makes sense because on top of being a foreigner in East Asia, I'm physically attractive on my own grounds (I workout everyday and dress well, I'm not delirious). Also, I'm keeping an eye on my body language fundamentals and things like being sexual and deep diving. It's not perfect but it's good enough that some people seem to think I have a lot of girls all over the place. The actual situation is quite disastrous really and it's getting harder and harder to keep the positive vibe as the weeks go by with no real results.

The first brick wall goes more or less like this; I pick a new contact and try to set up something, generally after some banter or deeper conversation depending on the case, but at the end of the process resistance is total:

- Well, let's meetup somewhere for a cup of something (with air conditioning haha)
- That'd be great!
- How about tomorrow?
- Sorry, tomorrow I have some business.
- Ok, let me know which days are you free
- Ok (then disappears forever)

or. . .

- Hey let's go out for A later this week
- or B! hahaha
- yeah hahaha so which days are you free?
- I really don't know when I'm free
- Tell me.

and this one was a girl who approached me at a club, I gave her my number and I didn't think I'd hear from her again - but the next night she pops up on my messenger saying she studies right next door to where I'm staying.

- when does your class finish?
- 1 pm
- perfect, let's go for some lunch nearby
- Impossible, today I have a friend coming from far away and i have to entertain her
- well, you are next door after all, ill see you later this week
- actually this is the last class i'll ever have in that campus. so. . .
- (i go on with my day)
- (realizes this and tries to continue the pointless talk with some irrelevant question/comment)

Cases like this never get back to me ever again and neither do I to them.
Is it correct to next them forever or should I pop up after a week or two and try again?

On the mix I also had last minute flakes and girls that went from flirting hard to breaking rapport the moment they saw I was leading the conversation towards a face-to-face encounter. Those leads too went -273 C cold.

__

A smaller group, from social circle or otherwise, I've managed to see outside group activities in more appropriate settings for sexual escalation but then there's a brick wall there too.

I had this girl text me like 5 times last week to make sure I was going to a certain nightclub last Saturday.
Because I was unsure of her (she had gone out of her way to tell me she had gone to this guy's appartment but then next time we met that guy ignored the hell out of her), I made sure I had two groups of buddies to fall back to.
At the club, she came looking for me but we quickly ended at a table full of locals (guys who wanted to pick up her friends), playing a game 1 on 1; at some point she wanted to include some other guys in the game I had to say "no" as it derailed whatever connection/intimacy I was trying to build. Then, 10 minutes later, she came up with something disruptive again and I said "Ok you take there of that I'll go say hi to my buddies" (which she had seen and knew were looking for me).

She came looking for me later and, even later, when my friends left I was able to sit with her alone on a couch.
It was necessary to spice things up and took her, as promised, to see a friend who hangs out with some very experienced /open-minded local girls.
I couldn't even get her to approach the group. . . and if I approached she stayed back alone.
When one of the girls slipped an ice cube on my friends pants for kicks, she turned around and covered her face in horror.
As a general rule, she'd keep away from me whenever we approached the area where the elevator and staircase were (make out zone) and actively welcomed anyone who broke circle.
Sexualizing the conversation produced absolute statements/frames like "I don't sleep around randomly" When I asked her what her idea of "randomly" was she just chucked out translations for the word. She would let me touch/caress her back/arm/shoulder a little bit, but was largely unresponsive as though she was letting me because she didn't notice.
Anyway, after hours of talking in circles, dealing with drunk/hostile locals trying to interfere, and having her invite me to play dice with some totally random strangers, I ditched her and joined my friends downstairs for some drunk bantering.

My friends think it's more about her than about me but I have a different question:
Being East Asia, am I supposed to keep pushing the envelope?
All these situations have in common that I could persist but I'm not, as I often see no windows of escalation whatsoever.
Anyway, I can't put my finger on what is that I'm doing wrong - when pick up here is so easy for so many guys.

 

[Thedoctor]

Black,

Here are some suggestions:

- Well, let's meetup somewhere for a cup of something (with air conditioning haha)
- That'd be great!
- How about tomorrow?
- Sorry, tomorrow I have some business.
- Ok, let me know which days are you free
- Ok (then disappears forever)

Here, you initially start with only one suggestion for a day. Try giving a few options in case she is actually unavailable on the day you suggest. After she declines, you just asked which days she's free which made it seem like you are always available. This isn't good either. Try something along the lines of: "What's your schedule looking like this week? I'm free Tuesday, Thursday and Sat afternoon." for instance.

- when does your class finish?
- 1 pm
- perfect, let's go for some lunch nearby
- Impossible, today I have a friend coming from far away and i have to entertain her
- well, you are next door after all, ill see you later this week
- actually this is the last class i'll ever have in that campus. so. . .
- (i go on with my day)
- (realizes this and tries to continue the pointless talk with some irrelevant question/comment)

This is similar to the first one. Try to allow the girl to give other options to meet up that week. In this example, you could have simply asked if she was busy after class, rather than just assuming she was free. It's entirely possible she had no plans and she just didn't like that you assumed that.

Cases like this never get back to me ever again and neither do I to them.
Is it correct to next them forever or should I pop up after a week or two and try again?

Your call. You can try again after a week or two, but I don't bother. Doing so rarely yields results. And if you don't, every now and then, a girl will text you in the future and ask you out if there's been enough radio silence.

A smaller group, from social circle or otherwise, I've managed to see outside group activities in more appropriate settings for sexual escalation but then there's a brick wall there too.

I had this girl text me like 5 times last week to make sure I was going to a certain nightclub last Saturday.
Because I was unsure of her (she had gone out of her way to tell me she had gone to this guy's appartment but then next time we met that guy ignored the hell out of her), I made sure I had two groups of buddies to fall back to.
At the club, she came looking for me but we quickly ended at a table full of locals (guys who wanted to pick up her friends), playing a game 1 on 1; at some point she wanted to include some other guys in the game I had to say "no" as it derailed whatever connection/intimacy I was trying to build. Then, 10 minutes later, she came up with something disruptive again and I said "Ok you take there of that I'll go say hi to my buddies" (which she had seen and knew were looking for me).

She came looking for me later and, even later, when my friends left I was able to sit with her alone on a couch.
It was necessary to spice things up and took her, as promised, to see a friend who hangs out with some very experienced /open-minded local girls.
I couldn't even get her to approach the group. . . and if I approached she stayed back alone.
When one of the girls slipped an ice cube on my friends pants for kicks, she turned around and covered her face in horror.
As a general rule, she'd keep away from me whenever we approached the area where the elevator and staircase were (make out zone) and actively welcomed anyone who broke circle.
Sexualizing the conversation produced absolute statements/frames like "I don't sleep around randomly" When I asked her what her idea of "randomly" was she just chucked out translations for the word. She would let me touch/caress her back/arm/shoulder a little bit, but was largely unresponsive as though she was letting me because she didn't notice.
Anyway, after hours of talking in circles, dealing with drunk/hostile locals trying to interfere, and having her invite me to play dice with some totally random strangers, I ditched her and joined my friends downstairs for some drunk bantering.

It is much easier to manage the interaction if it's just the two of you. If she only wants to invite you out where there are other people, you are more than likely just wasting your time. Push for a one on one meet with her and tactfully turn down invitations that will involve other people.

My friends think it's more about her than about me but I have a different question:
Being East Asia, am I supposed to keep pushing the envelope?
All these situations have in common that I could persist but I'm not, as I often see no windows of escalation whatsoever.
Anyway, I can't put my finger on what is that I'm doing wrong - when pick up here is so easy for so many guys.

If you are not seeing the escalation windows, then you might not be engaging the girls properly or you just lack experience. In terms, of the texting, you need to keep in mind that no matter how good you are, there are always going to be girls that don't respond via text, so don't get too discouraged when this happens. It also depends how you managed the entire interaction when you got her number. It might not be a bad idea to try pushing the envelope as you said. If it doesn't lead anywhere, then at least you know for sure you need to improve in other areas.

I'd also recommend reading up on some more material on the main site. The "texting" articles would help a lot to start with.

-John

 

[Estate]

Just a few things which made me think *could* be worth thinking about...

- How well do you know these girls? Are you just quickly meeting them, getting a number and moving on? In that case, maybe they are still a little cold on you and you need to build a little report with them so when you text them they are warm to you.

- If you Do know them well enough, how are you approaching them in person? Like, are you giving off a friendly social vibe then suddenly going for a number and trying to ask them out? In that case they might be caught off guard. Like you were approaching it under the radar as friends... the *BAM*, you want to date them.

- I *do* advocate moving fast by text to set up a meeting and not wasting time texting back and forth banter for days. But I have started to reel that back in some cases. If I know a girl is VERY warm on me I can open my first text by just asking them to meet me. If I don't think I talked to them enough to make them very warm on me, I'll try to banter a little by text. Not a lot, I just maybe go 3-5 messages before setting up a meeting. That seems to work better as since you are re-opening her on text, just try to come across a little cool or fun so she WANTS to accept the date offer.
It looks like you're going right for the kill in the first message but the girls aren't warmed up to you enough to be ok with accepting a date.

 

[Black]

Thank you both.

I went down the path of radio silence with these girls and a couple got back to me - which stack up nicely with the new ones I'm meeting.

I think this is all true: I still don't have a good feeling for when I'm coming off too strong or too weak, too fast or too slow, etc. . .
The fact that girls and venues are all different is also quite confusing.
At least now I'm beginning to see things for what they are. . .

For example, since I'm in East Asia, I find it difficult to do physical escalation in public venues, particularly with girls that don't party/drink.
So I'm meeting these two girls now but I notice I keep tending to fall into the doing "boyfriend stuff but without sex" place.

Tonight: dinner date; still dunno how am I gonna sexualize that.

Then there's this other girl I flirted with and finally got her to agree to meet me one on one.
It's language exchange but she knows something else is up and when I first arrived she was giggling all over, nervous as hell. Then playfully trying to hit me when I teased her, but when I tried to touch her arm as part of a conversation (she had touched mine) she withdrew it violently. I had made the mistake of putting dampers on it by actually bringing study material (doh!).
Later this week I kind of fixed the course of things back again by texting her some sexual joke/material and she said I should tell her "my secrets" (relates to the joke I had sent her) I said "next time we meet". I don't know what I'm going to do.
Also, she's very unstable. One second she flirts the next goes "sorry, but I don't know what you are talking about, could you please clarify" to which I tease her instead and that gets things back on track. . . but hell, it's hard.

Last night at the club a girl friend of a friend sat next to me and introduced herself.
After the basic intro questions it just died off and she left.
Then she came back but ignored me when I tried to say something to her.
Then this other guy in our group sat between us; spent like 20 minutes trying to hug her and mandhandle kisses while she acted aloof, pushed him away, talked to other girls. The guy finally took her to the bathroom (gave her head, he says) but even after coming back he could still not get a proper kiss from her (it ended with her biting him in one of his attempts).
I watched this all trying to learn something as I would've probably not persisted there and then.
(I'm not exactly looking for that kind of result/outcome thou)

Too fast, too slow, too sexual, too boring. . . I can't calibrate well yet.
Ok, let's see tonight. . . :/