Hooking up with a girl that has a boyfriend

[normajean106]

There's this girl I'm a little bit into that has a boyfriend. I used to think that it was wrong to chase after women with boyfriends. But as I re-evaluated my beliefs (as in, what teachings were actually supported by passages versus what teachings I was brought up with), I realized later that this was just a dogmatic Americanized tradition/code, and that this was never any mention of this in the passages despite many others zealously forcing this belief onto others.

Somethings that Chase said stuck out to me, such as:

Men who come here who want to learn how they can make their girlfriends so happy and satisfied that they'll never WANT another man - I want those people here. This place is for them.

and:

If you truly cared about your girlfriend, you would not be telling me to censor myself - you would be asking me how to give your girlfriend such an amazing relationship that she'd never even LOOK at another man AGAIN!!!

If I was in a relationship with a girl, then I would want her to be happy, and if I can't fulfill her legitimate needs, then she has every right to seek it somewhere else. And if she was being a straight up [female dog] and left me for someone else just for giggles, then I never wanted her anyway.

So, there's this girl I'm into that has a bit in common with me. We met two weeks ago when we were both waiting outside of our music class (we're in college by the way). I was reading the Bible (since I missed it the previous night) in one seat and she was about three seats away from me (there were chairs lined up against the wall). The silence was just completely awkward since we were alone while students were occasionally walking into the class early. I figured that it would be more awkward for me to stay silent than if I said something weird. So, I asked her a few questions and she returned the favor and what not, the conversation never really went anywhere. I went to class and carried on with the rest of the day and that was it.

The next week, or last Friday I should say, we talked again and I found out she's into Hardcore Punk (like me) and started telling me about the tours she's been on etc. She even put effort into the conversation instead of letting it die out (like I was about to. I was still shocked she was into real punk music because that's incredibly rare in central PA since the scene died out years ago.) But, I got penis-blocked by her friend (and I didn't know why at the time.) and they went into class.

Over the weekend, I had a bit of a revelation at the Metal/Punk concert I went to last Saturday (something we were talking about before I went). I'll probably talk about this some other time though, but in short, I had gained a huge boost of confidence and clarity. Last Monday, I decided to sit close to her during class, that way I could get my foot in the door and escalate. (By the way, I figured out later that I was becoming the "Guy to talk about metal/punk with behind my boyfriends back on Fridays," and there was no way I was going to be used like that).

When she showed up, she looked surprised and calmly sat in front of me, while putting her stuff down on the same seat where I had my leg [power move I guess? I don't know, but my foot wasn't going to be forced off the chair. It was there first. Her stuff was not.]

I pre-opened her up, asking her if the teacher was coming in late today (it was time for class and the professor wasn't there), and she paused for a second with a blank face, and kindly said "Oh I'm not sure." There were girls seated around me, so I immediately asked if anyone else knew either, and they all politely responded with "I don't know" etc.

I did this because 1) I needed to avoid being the creepy stalker in her mind, so I talked to her (and the girls around) before class and did NOT stay silent. 2) I need to start pursuing a bit so I can get her investing in me.

As class started, she pulled out her phone, and before I could turn my head (I hate peeping on private stuff since I'm a man with boundaries), she unlocked her phone and began texting this guy who texted a heart emoji to her. I'm pretty sure she did it on purpose too, so I would see it, since she was in front of me and she held up her phone out in the open. That's when it hit me and figured out she had a boyfriend. But nevertheless, I kept my cool and went about as if I hadn't seen the text. [If she has something to say, she can tell me directly]. I could be wrong about this, but, either way, it was honestly an accident.

After class ended, I talked to her briefly and thanked her for the advice she gave me about the concert I went to. She paused again with a blank face for a moment, then quickly lightened up and said "No problem, I'm glad I could help. Did you like it?" etc. and we left.

I noticed throughout class that she seemed a little bit nervous (understandably), unlike the first few times we talked.

Today, I was going to sit near her again and deep dive with her, but, she was sitting next to a guy who I'm pretty sure was her boyfriend. Either way, I sat in the same area (seats were mixed up and not in order) as I did before and just kept my vibe strong and confident (as it was when I first sat near her). I want to be under the radar here (and I'm sure she does as well), so I didn't talk to her today (Wednesday) like I did on Monday.

So I know, I know, a girl like this isn't worth it (or so you guys think), but there aren't a lot of girls like her and I'm going to have to wait till the next metal/punk concert to hook up with my types of girls (because they are RARE). So, I want to pass the time and see if I can get the girl I'm into to hook up with me. Either way, I'm in a position where I win no matter the outcome. If I don't get her, then I can hook up with a ton of other girls at concerts and such. If I do get her or at least, successfully court her, then I get a hot punk girlfriend, or at least some affection from her.

And don't worry, I'm not going to hook up with her if she really does love her boyfriend. If it comes to that, I'll just back off. Though, the boyfriend seemed kind of like a d*ck (probably because he can't be dominant without being a complete a-hole) and not like that in-between guy Chase talks about here: https://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-better-jerk

So I'm going to deep dive with her and build rapport with her, and show her that she can do better than her current boyfriend (by being with me), but do you guys personally have experience or advice you can share with me? I am pretty dead set on winning her over (unless she loves her boyfriend or something) just to let you guys know.

I also read this from another website and am wondering if I can or will be in something similar to this, by the way:

coming from a girls perspective..hmmm
ooo ooO OOO
ill tell you a story thats pretty similar to you and her.
well i had a boyfriend that only last 2 years.
during these 2 years, we had our ups and downs., mostly downs. so my eye became to wander...

SO one day i met a guy it was very chill in the beginning but couple months later....i ono why..things between me and that new guy became tense and awkward.

at that moment i realized i might have feelings for him..or hes so cute.

 

[Bboy100]

Since she hasn't explicitly told you she has a BF, you can still just ask her out. Treat her like she's single until she says in no uncertain terms that this is not the case.

 

[normajean106]

Since she hasn't explicitly told you she has a BF, you can still just ask her out. Treat her like she's single until she says in no uncertain terms that this is not the case.

That's a great point. I should probably do this first.

 

[Lotus]

1) She is a bit of a rare gem. I'm going to have to wait a while to find another one like her because my type really is that rare (ESPECIALLY where I live).
2) It seems like her boyfriend takes her for granted, and she could be doing a lot better. I honestly believe I'm doing her a favor.
3) I need something to pass the time. It's boring as Hell and it really sucks knowing that if I want a relationship/affection from a girl, I have to pursue women I'm not really interested in.

So yeah, there are millions of other girls, but there aren't millions of girls who fit my standards. I don't have that many standards actually, it's just the girls who do hold my standards are perhaps literally one in a million (where I live at least).

Another thing is that, there is actually another way to successfully woo a girl with a boyfriend. Yep, it's a giant pain in the butt, but it works. And it isn't popular here either.

I know you guys have probably heard this (a lot), but a girl bases most of her decisions on emotions, no? Well, if she feels crappy around her boyfriend but amazing around another guy, who do you think is going to end up with her? The main thing is just deep diving and connection building, which turns into investment. If she sees what I high value guy I am and realizes she can trade up, chances are, she will. Yeah, it takes months to pull off, but the pay off is worth it.

So in the mean time I'll definitely be looking for other girls (that's just stupid holding myself for a person who may not ever be attracted to me). I'll probably be in and out of relationships even. However, I'm not going to sit back and watch another guy take a girl for granted when she could be a lot happier with me. (Though, if they truly love each other (which I sincerely doubt), then I'll back off.)

In short, no, I will not stop wasting my time on a girl who is taken. In fact, as I do this I've been gaining a lot more confidence in myself, so it really isn't a waste of my time at all. You can complain all you want and put me down even, but you should know that for a maverick like me, it'll just fuel my passion and push me closer to success

https://www.girlschase.com/content/white ... s-distress

If you haven't read this article, I would recommend it because it sounds like you are dangerously close to that.

You want to save this girl from her from her "dick" boyfriend, whom it seems you may or may not have met once in class. I'm sure there are random people that overhear me and my girlfriend talk and think I'm a dick, but I can assure you she doesn't think so

I can't forbid you from chasing this chick haha, but I wouldn't recommend it. You will save yourself a lot of mental anguish by following Bboy's advice and asking her out sooner rather than later.

-Lotus

 

[Bboy100]

Norman,

I just want to add that you're probably addressing the wrong issue anyways. You believe she's "rare" and there are "very few girls like her" in your area. Coming from experiance, I can tell you this is probably false. A year ago, I was in your shoes. I met this girl who I thought was perfect for me...and I thought I'd never meet someone like her again and I blew it. ...Well surprise! Three months later, I met a girl who I liked as much as if not more than her. Then I messed it up with her too. Then once again, I thought "oh, I'm she's exactly my type and there aren't that many such girls around". And again...about 3 months later, I met another girl who I liked the same. I'd like to note that none of these girls were exactly the same personality type. But I nevertheless felt an equal amount of attraction and "chemistry" with each of them. Also, a few of them did not even match my "logical criteria" for what I wanted in a girl.

My point is, just because you think you'll only be happy with whatever "your type" is doesn't mean that's true. So before you decide that you won't meet girls like her again, I invite you to continue going out and chatting with girls. If you're consistently meeting girls for a year, and you still haven't met someone like her...then you can come back and tell me she's a "gem".

Additionally, it sounds like one of the main reasons you like her is because she's into metal/punk. And apprently, there are very few such girls around. The first thing I'd do is double check that. Cause are you sure about this? Maybe there's a lot more than you think and you just don't know where they hang out. The second thing I'd do is expand my interests. Ok, great. So there are no metal/punk girls around. But there are other things in life which you can bond over too. I'm willing to bet that if you found some other activities/passions, you'll find more in common and more to bond over with the girls in your area. And also, girls will be more attracted to you. Because you've done shit with your life, and it's a lot easier for you to relate with them.

 

[normajean106]

https://www.girlschase.com/content/white ... s-distress

If you haven't read this article, I would recommend it because it sounds like you are dangerously close to that.

You want to save this girl from her from her "dick" boyfriend, whom it seems you may or may not have met once in class. I'm sure there are random people that overhear me and my girlfriend talk and think I'm a dick, but I can assure you she doesn't think so

I can't forbid you from chasing this chick haha, but I wouldn't recommend it. You will save yourself a lot of mental anguish by following Bboy's advice and asking her out sooner rather than later.

-Lotus

Nah, I'm not here to "rescue her from the clutches of her evil boyfriend" like a nice guy might want to. Actually, I don't think much about the guy. I just think he's too much of a dick and isn't that well-balanced guy that Chase always talks about.

Why would she want to be with a dick when she can be with a sexy-as-hell punk that actually makes her feel good?

As the other guys say tho, I don't reccomend it. Why would you want to start a relationship with a girl who cheats? If she's done it once, she WILL do it again in time. A girls relationship patterns don't change much.
Radeng

I'm not getting her to cheat. I'm getting her to leave her boyfriend for me.

you shouldn't want to be with her at that point.

Maybe.

 

[normajean106]

Norman,

I just want to add that you're probably addressing the wrong issue anyways. You believe she's "rare" and there are "very few girls like her" in your area. Coming from experiance, I can tell you this is probably false. A year ago, I was in your shoes. I met this girl who I thought was perfect for me...and I thought I'd never meet someone like her again and I blew it. ...Well surprise! Three months later, I met a girl who I liked as much as if not more than her. Then I messed it up with her too. Then once again, I thought "oh, I'm she's exactly my type and there aren't that many such girls around". And again...about 3 months later, I met another girl who I liked the same. I'd like to note that none of these girls were exactly the same personality type. But I nevertheless felt an equal amount of attraction and "chemistry" with each of them. Also, a few of them did not even match my "logical criteria" for what I wanted in a girl.

My point is, just because you think you'll only be happy with whatever "your type" is doesn't mean that's true. So before you decide that you won't meet girls like her again, I invite you to continue going out and chatting with girls. If you're consistently meeting girls for a year, and you still haven't met someone like her...then you can come back and tell me she's a "gem".

Additionally, it sounds like one of the main reasons you like her is because she's into metal/punk. And apprently, there are very few such girls around. The first thing I'd do is double check that. Cause are you sure about this? Maybe there's a lot more than you think and you just don't know where they hang out. The second thing I'd do is expand my interests. Ok, great. So there are no metal/punk girls around. But there are other things in life which you can bond over too. I'm willing to bet that if you found some other activities/passions, you'll find more in common and more to bond over with the girls in your area. And also, girls will be more attracted to you. Because you've done shit with your life, and it's a lot easier for you to relate with them.

Yeah I know. I say "rare' though instead of perfect. Maybe I'm idealizing, but I want to hook up with someone who's actually similar to me, personality wise. With Punk/Metal, it's a subculture where people are extremely alike.

And the thing is, is that it takes months to find a girl like that. Hence why I'm trying to hook up with this girl.

P.S. Just to let you know, it's Norma, not Norman. It comes from the Metalcore (Hardcore punk + extreme metal) band Norma Jean. Norma Jean Mortenson is also the iconic sex symbol, Marilyn Monroe. Which is why it's perfect for this site.

 

[ray_zorse]

hey NJ,

Bboy100, Lotus and radeng are on the money here. Listen to what they are saying, because they are experienced seducers and have met this kind of situation before, regardless of how much you might feel your situation is different.

Your situation isn't different, it's just that you are seeing it out of proportion due to your high level of investment (mental, temporal, ...) in this particular girl. Let me illustrate with an example.

You buy a share in the stockmarket. Value drops. You think "I had better hang onto it until value goes up again". Value drops again. You think "oh damn, now I will have to hold it for even longer". Correct thinking would be "if I saw the share right now at the current price in current conditions would I buy? no? then SELL". Second way is rationally the right decision but EMOTIONALLY the wrong decision. The only reason the first way seems attractive is your high level of existing investment.

So what's happened is you've spent time thinking about this girl, your future together, her hot body, her lame-ass boyfriend and how much better she could do, how you would treat her better etc, and you've also got good reactions from her (but remember reactions != results, and also unless you are very experienced you will have trouble distinguishing sexual attraction from the flirting girls do for fun and to get orbiters).

All this has increased her value in your mind to the point you don't want to lose her. A psychiatrist expressed this to me succinctly when I consulted him for depression/anxiety during my separation: "You are not just grieving the relationship you had with your wife, you are grieving what you hoped it would become". Right on, it lit up some lightbulbs, although I didn't understand investment until discovering GC a year later.

Anyway, the last thing I want to say is echoing Lotus, don't white knight, she probably has a great relationship with her bf, even if she herself doesn't think so. The more of a douchebag he is, the more it can trigger attraction, she probably isn't aware that she is attracted to dudes who are selfish and do their own thing without regard to her feelings on the matter.

Ray

 

[Suave]

No girl can ever be that special. PERIOD. I have beeb through this once, if youare making such long posts about a single girl and are not willing to take the advice of such experienced seducers, it's time to let her go and find someone else.

The best way to get a girl is by looking at her from the eyes of a guy who has abundance, it keeps you emotionally disconnected and maintains the sexiness.
But, as far as I can see you're already mentally more invested in her than you should ever be in any girl! The posts you are giving me and the amount of detail you remember is a warning sign. You're not in for a good haul.

You won't realize it, but your nonverbals will send her running to the hills. So back off and relax for a while.

P.S. As you keep investing in her, she'll keep becoming more and more attractive to you! Seriously man, her face will start glowing! Believe me.

 

[normajean106]

hey NJ,

Bboy100, Lotus and radeng are on the money here. Listen to what they are saying

I can't. Because I'm 19 and I don't know how. Sorry for being young and reckless.

regardless of how much you might feel your situation is different.

I never said that.

Your situation isn't different

Yeah, I know that.

it's just that you are seeing it out of proportion

If I wasn't, most of the things I do probably wouldn't work.

due to your high level of investment (mental, temporal, ...) in this particular girl.

Honestly, I don't really have any investment either. Maybe I don't want to let her go that easy with the whole punk thing going on, but if I woke up, went to class one day and she told me she never wanted to see me again, I just wouldn't care. If I "lost" her its not like anything was different then before.

You buy a share in the stockmarket. Value drops. You think "I had better hang onto it until value goes up again". Value drops again. You think "oh damn, now I will have to hold it for even longer". Correct thinking would be "if I saw the share right now at the current price in current conditions would I buy? no? then SELL".

Hey, I kind of like that analogy. Except my thinking is more along the lines of,

"The value dropped? F*ck it, if I'm losing money, then I'm going to get some entertainment out of this. Buy some more just for the Hell of it, see where it goes."

So what's happened is you've spent time thinking about this girl, your future together, her hot body, her lame-ass boyfriend and how much better she could do, how you would treat her better etc, and you've also got good reactions from her (but remember reactions != results, and also unless you are very experienced you will have trouble distinguishing sexual attraction from the flirting girls do for fun and to get orbiters).

See, the thing is that she never really flirted with me. Not out of attraction anyway. So I want to take that whole orbiter thing and let it bite her in the ass when we hook up.

All this has increased her value in your mind to the point you don't want to lose her.

I don't care. If I do, nothing changes. Well, I can't lose her actually. I'm not attached to her and we hardly know each other. I can either hook up with her, or if not, then I'd just carry on as usual. There's nothing to lose.

Anyway, the last thing I want to say is echoing Lotus, don't white knight

Fair point but believe me when I say I don't want to.

she probably has a great relationship with her bf, even if she herself doesn't think so.

What she thinks is irrelevant. The results will speak for themself.

The more of a douchebag he is, the more it can trigger attraction, she probably isn't aware that she is attracted to dudes who are selfish and do their own thing without regard to her feelings on the matter.

Ray

Well then I guess it's time I step up my game.

 

[normajean106]

No girl can ever be that special. PERIOD.

She's not that special. She's just different then most girls.

You guys make it sound like I'm treating her like she's the only one for me, when I don't feel that way at all.

I'm starting to wonder if it's not that I value her, but that you many of you on the boards lack sufficient standards and take every girl that you can get. And when there's a girl that is inconvenient to hook up with, you just give up, pretend her traits weren't the good anyway and downplay them, and move on to the next mediocre girl and seduce her. Just like it's a numbers game.

If I'm wrong tell me, because this is what I'm hearing.

But, as far as I can see you're already mentally more invested in her than you should ever be in any girl! The posts you are giving me and the amount of detail you remember is a warning sign. You're not in for a good haul.

What can I say? I have a great memory.

You won't realize it, but your nonverbals will send her running to the hills. So back off and relax for a while.

Can't. If I do then I'll creep her out even more. I can take a break for a moment, but I already started pursuing. If I'm going to pull this off I have to calm her down and communicate my intentions to ease her mind and not freak her out.

P.S. As you keep investing in her, she'll keep becoming more and more attractive to you!

Not invested in her. Am I chasing her? Yeah, a little. But I'm really just doing this to get my foot in the door. Once I'm in, the conversations will start to roll with low effort.

Seriously man, her face will start glowing! Believe me.

Oh no, I hope she doesn't grow wings too.

Listen, I get it. You guys are just trying to watch my ass and save me some pain. But if I thought I was going to get hurt (which I have been many times before), I would have backed off a long time ago.

I'm just taking what I want. This girl thought she could use me as an orbiter as if I were a tool for her validation, but now I'm going to show her that I'm a Hell of a guy and that I'm not interested in being her emotional crutch.

She thought she could let the "devil" in just six inches, but now she's going to realize he'll kick the whole door down without much effort.

No, I'm not going to be a manipulative bastard and tear her from her boyfriend (if she really does have one) just to laugh and be cruel, but I'm going to show her that if she plays with fire, she gets burned.

In short, I'm hooking up with her. If she didn't want me to, then she should have just told me she was taken and was just interested in being friends.

 

[Eternity]

So have you isolated her and escalated the interaction further as in touching her and having a sexual vibe with her? If not, she probably has you pegged as another friendly guy in her class. Deep diving was decent but the conversation led no where according to you indicating low investment from her part. Next time you are alone find a way to touch her, like her shoulder, her hand, her waist (briefly) and gauge her reaction. Oh yeah, dont expect her to be receptive. In the end its always a numbers game.

 

[Bboy100]

I changed my mind. Go for it. Pursue this girl to the best of your abilities. Looks like you need to make this mistake at least once. After all, experience is the best teacher

 

[Lotus]

Well I'm glad you don't feel emotionally invested in this girl, that's a couple steps above most people.

All I got out of this thread was:

"Hey guys can you give me advice on how to get this girl."

*Multiple people give advice*

"Actually I don't really want your advice because it doesn't align with what I want to do. Fuck it, I'm 19 #YOLO"

I'm sure my ego is getting in the way here but here's a tip for anyone that hasn't figure it out yet.If you people to give you advice then at least time them the time of day before dismissing what they tell you..... or you will find people stop trying to help(yes, it's happened).

Yeah it's possible that you get this one girl and shes great and she has your babies, and you ride off into the sunset together. But during that time Radeng wrote a New York Times Bestseller, Ray became the president of Australia and I had a 3-some with the Olsen twins.

We are talking about efficiency here and time is a limited resource.

-Lotus

 

[normajean106]

All I got out of this thread was:

"Hey guys can you give me advice on how to get this girl."

*Multiple people give advice*

"Actually I don't really want your advice because it doesn't align with what I want to do. Fuck it, I'm 19 #YOLO"

@lotus
To be fair, I did say not to try to change my mind. <_<

@everyone
I reevaluated my situation, and I'm not going to take the slow approach with the girl.

I keep playing the scenario in my head and I just can't think of an outcome that's worth doing this. Even though I've been saying "to Hell with this; pull the trigger, f*ck the results," it's still not worth being emotionally drained.

I really did mean to hook up with the girl by taking the time to slowly woo her (and I absolutely believe it would have worked), but some things are really weighing me down and I'm feeling heavy tonight. I can't explain why, but I feel like something's telling me not to do this.

I don't feel wrong hooking up with her even if she has a boyfriend, but it seems like this sort of thing would suck the life out of me despite being able to potentially hook up with her.

The main reason why I believe I could have slowly courted her was because I was in another situation similar to this one. I met a girl before she had a boyfriend, and she became extremely infatuated with me over time (thanks to my looks, personality, and character). I fell out of contact with her for a month so she picked up a boyfriend during that time. However I noticed she was still attracted to me when I came back into contact despite having a boyfriend, and so now I figured I could do the same with this new girl.

I'm willing to bet a million bucks that her boyfriend (if he exists) is only half the man I am, and I thought I could use that to my advantage to get her investing in me just like my other friend is invested in me to this day.

So what I'm going to do is just throw in some kino and ask her out the next time I see her. My vibe was pretty sexual before so this shouldn't surprise her, but nonetheless she probably won't be receptive to it. And that will probably be the end of it.

So you guys were wrong about me not being able to pull this off, but you were definitely right when you said it wouldn't be worth it.

Sorry for being a pain in the ass guys, and I hope you understand why I am being a dick.