Wealth How Can I Make Money Right Now?

[Chase]

I've mentioned this multiple times but all I'm getting from you is stock market and day traders, not what I'm asking about.

All right.

You've got me, @Rain.

Trading Forex is totally different from every other sort of trading.

I just didn't want you to find out.

You're gonna be rich man.

According to a Reuters article in 2008, the China Banking Regulatory Commission banned banks from offering Forex margin trading to their clients.

“Eighty to 90 percent of players in Forex traders lose money, through banks providing the service were generally making a profit from it, the banking regulator said.”

Probably those 80-90% were the ones not using your strategy. That's why they failed.

Even though we don’t have anything 100% conclusive to support ‘95% Forex traders lose money’ it’s pretty safe to conclude that a ‘high percentage of Forex traders lose money’.

Again, these are all the guys that didn't figure out your strategy. Had they known that...!

Sarcasm aside --

I've mentioned this multiple times but all I'm getting from you is stock market and day traders, not what I'm asking about.

You have jumped around from market-timing Bitcoin to market-timing Forex.

I know you think timing the market in one thing is totally different from timing the market in another thing, and that it isn't relevant to discuss market timing in one thing when you're market timing in something else. Because apparently there are totally different mechanisms at work in intermediate-term trading for other things.

However, whether you are trading Bitcoin, Forex, or stocks, or pogs, some things are constant:

• Either you are long-term investing in assets you have heavily researched because you think they will be long-term winners, OR
  
  
• You are trying to beat the market by more investing more cleverly or more quickly in winners and exiting from losers (either on a day-to-day, or a month-to-month basis)

Forex isn't "Rain versus some dumb machines." Forex is "Rain versus the other Forex traders."

"I have this strategy that will let me beat those other dumb Forex traders" is one way to approach trading. But just keep in mind this is how 100% of other Forex traders are thinking. It is also how they're thinking about you.

The money the few profitable Forex traders make doesn't fall from the sky. It comes from the pockets of less successful Forex traders.

Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones.

I hope you are.

And if you are, hey -- that's a great thing!

The odds don't favor it though.

I have seen a few guys with promise squander their time and money doing various kinds of trading. Some is day trading, some is trading with a longer time horizon. But I will just say, the statistics don't favor anyone wanting to do any kind of market-timing trading, and my personal experience with people trying to invest this way is that it doesn't typically work out anything like they fantasize it will, either.

This is not productive work. You are not making anything doing this. You are just trying to be the one on the chair when the music stops, and some other guy has to run out of the room crying because his life savings were lost. Maybe once or twice the one getting the chair is you. Maybe the time after that, you're the one running out of the room.

Anyway -- I don't want to rob you of your dream.

If you want to do Forex trading, or Bitcoin trading, or whatever else, and you want to time the market -- get to it.

I don't want you sitting around 20 years from now saying, "Chase Amante robbed me of my dream! If not for him, Jeff Bezos would be shining my shoes!"

I just caution you not to play with any money you don't mind losing.

Chase

 

[Train]

Hey @Chase, this is Train (Rain with a T lol). Would you say entrepreneurship / small business or real estate are more viable pathways to accumulate wealth vs a regular corporate gig based on your experiences or those of successful acquaintances?

I've always heard the "Big 3" as entrepreneurship, real estate, and stocks. The last I'm mostly just passive investing via a total stock market ETF. However, the former 2 seem to offer more control in terms of deploying your money.

My plan is to set up multiple active income streams, semi-automate them, and then better pursue passions (studying PhD, traveling, etc.) knowing wealth is taken care of and I am "retired" (i.e. not bound to the corporate 9-5).

 

[trashKENNUT]

(Rain with a T lol).

-.-

HAHAHA! Anyway that's too bad okay,

My plan is to set up multiple active income streams, semi-automate them, and then better pursue passions (studying PhD, traveling, etc.) knowing wealth is taken care of and I am "retired" (i.e. not bound to the corporate 9-5).

SMMA.

Just need 2-3 client who are not an ass, and make sure you run their ads, and you can do whatever the fuck you want. Let's say you earn 1.5k per client, Earning more than 4k per month is not common. Hard to believe because we all live in our own bubble.

But yea. SMMA is the most easiest. and stay relevant, because the market is always changing. You need more than just one skillset.

z@c+

 

[Rain]

Trading Forex is totally different from every other sort of trading.

I just didn't want you to find out.

You're gonna be rich man.

Sarcasm aside --

I thought thats what you thought, but I had to be sure. Why can't I have crypto as an investment during this bullrun, and trade forex on the side? I just have to let crypto run now I'm not "trading" it. Forget crypto for a moment, I'm sitting here with two, that's right, two[mine and the other trades like Justin earlier in the thread], profitable forex trading systems. If I had of taken your advice, I wouldn't be sitting here with these two profitable systems, so you can see why I get angry.
And I've been trading seriously since the start of last year. So even though I'm profitable now, if I had of taken your advice, I wouldn't be profitable so yeah, you have made me angry posting this advice.

Without quoting everything you've written, I get the jist of your post. Tell me this. Even if you prove the system I'm about to show you as unprofitable[if I made a mistake or something], are you then going to sign up to Justin Bennetts private forum, tell me, him and any other regular profitable traders that we should all stop? Will you post proof that our charts are unreliable and the trades done are not reproducable? You could also check justins free site for that, he's got trade ideas weekly forecasts on there going back years.
Will you sign up to this public forex factory thread here, that thread still going today check the last page, and tell "Davit"[the red mark makes him sort of an equivalent tribal elder of trading] that he, and anyone who posts profits using his system on a regular basis, eg Egbert, R61 both also high impact red members, pivoter, emmkward, that they're all wrong and will lose and should stop right now? And the profitable trades they've been posting, some maybe for years[like Davit], are all flukes? I think there's a chance Davit would ban you pretty quickly from his thread, but what more evidence do you want?

Okay, I'll give you more:

Here's a simple system. A counter trend type system, and it's profitable for 10years worth of charts. Possibly further back too but mt4 won't go back further. It is not "bullish" or "bearish". It's simply a pullback system. Price gets stretched far from the moving average, on the daily timeframe, then it pulls back. The maroon bar is not an indicator, it's simply what I noticed looking at charts and a system I've been using. So you put the maroon bar inline with the red exponential moving average[check chart 7 where I tried to make this very easy to understand] and if price goes above or below the length of the maroon bar from the moving average, only then do you put your first order on.

If price has not pulled back to the 38fib of the last swing, you put more orders on. So if it's above the 10 exponential moving average, it would be sell orders, and if price was below, it would be buy orders. Using the NZDCAD pair, first order end of the first maroon bar. The maroon bar must be placed in horizontal alignment with the red exponential moving average. That's how you tell if price has become stretched by the required amount. After that you place each next order about 0.00425 apart. I don't make it precise, just look at the screen make sure the orders are nicely spaced out to about 4 orders per bar. The length of the maroon bar is 0.01700 and dividing that by 4 gives the four orders per bar eg 0.00425 apart.

After days/weeks/months, price pulls back to the 38fib of the last swing, you close all trades. I could make it more advanced, but for the easy, sake of proof, I'm going to keep it super simple.

Chart 1 Back in 2010, test of time, shows price getting stretched, a total of 5 sell limit orders nicely spaced apart, price pulls back to 38fib, all profit. First sell order is 0.73948, notice how thats the end of the first maroon bar.

Nice easy one, all trades were profit, this group of trades overall profit.
Chart 1

38fib 0.73900
0.73948 +0.00048 sell
0.74370 +0.00470 sell
0.74781 +0.00881 sell
0.75214 +0.01314 sell
0.75657 +0.01757 sell
TOTAL +0.044268
PROFIT +0.044268


Chart 2 Price got really quite stretched before pulling back to 38fib, and 15 sell limit orders total , price pulls back to 38fib, close orders. Notice in here, how the first few orders are a loss, but the remaining orders erase those losses and end in a profit.

38fib 0.920
0.89352 -0.02648 sell
0.89762 -0.02238 sell
0.90600 -0.01400 sell
0.91047 -0.00953 sell
0.91493 -0.00507 sell
0.91940 -0.00006 sell
0.92369 +0.00369 sell
0.92815 +0.00815 sell
0.93244 +0.01244 sell
0.93635 +0.01635 sell
0.94026 +0.02026 sell
0.94454 +0.02454 sell
0.94919 +0.02919 sell
0.95366 +0.03366 sell
TOTAL -0.07752
TOTAL +0.14828
PROFIT +0.07076



Chart 3 This time, price went below the 10ema, so the orders are buy limits. 8 buy limits, price pulls back to 38 fib, close trades.
Once again, some losses and some profits, but overall this group was also a profit.

38fib 0.89900
0.90452 -0.00552 buy
0.90045 -0.00145 buy
0.89637 +0.00263 buy
0.89230 +0.00670 buy
0.88729 +0.01171 buy
0.88338 +0.01562 buy
0.87962 +0.01938 buy
0.87555 +0.02345 buy
TOTAL -0.00697
TOTAL +0.07949
PROFIT +0.07252



Chart 4 Transparency, a small loss! Price got stretched, then just went sideways, then got stretched a second time, so to keep it simple, you'd use the 'first stretched'[way on the far left] lines to place the orders, and once it pulls back to the 38fib of the second stretch, we close them.

You could have held on for a whole year, and big swing pulls back to 38fib. But lets keep simple and basic swings and just call it a loss. Sometimes we take a loss and that's ok!

38fib 0.8900
0.85667 -0.033 sell
0.86283 -0.02717 sell
0.86781 -0.02219 sell
0.87255 -0.01745 sell
0.87705 -0.01295 sell
0.88179 -0.00821 sell
0.88605 -0.00395 sell
0.89027 +0.00027 sell
0.89519 +0.00519 sell
0.89964 +0.00964 sell
0.90362 +0.01362 sell
0.90831 +0.01831 sell
0.91299 +0.02299 sell
0.91744 +0.02744 sell
TOTAL -0.12492
TOTAL +0.09746
LOSS -0.02746


Chart 5 Should be self explanatory by now, another group of trades, overall profits.

38fib 0.89700
0.88326 -0.01374 sell
0.88682 -0.01018 sell
0.89105 -0.00595 sell
0.89542 -0.00158 sell
0.90021 +0.00321 sell
0.90431 +0.00731 sell
0.90827 +0.01127 sell
0.91291 +0.01591 sell
0.91742 +0.02042 sell
0.92180 +0.02480 sell
TOTAL -0.03145
TOTAL +0.08292
PROFIT +0.05147



Chart 6. Price gets stretched to the downside, only two orders but profit is profit.

38fib 0.96000
0.94725 +0.01275 buy
0.94354 +0.01646 buy
TOTAL +0.02921
PROFIT +0.02921

chart 7. Price gets stretched to the upside. Again only two orders, profit is profit.

38fib 0.94700
0.95508 +0.00808 sell
0.95933 +0.01233 sell
TOTAL +0.02041
PROFIT +0.02041

chart 8. Price stretched to the downside. 8 buy orders here. As usual, the winners erase the losers.

38fib 0.89800 target
0.91135 -0.01335 buy
0.90723 -0.00923 buy
0.90310 -0.00510 buy
0.89917 -0.00117 buy
0.89466 +0.00334 buy
0.89033 +0.00767 buy
0.88582 +0.01218 buy
0.88169 +0.01631 buy
TOTAL -0.02885
TOTAL +0.03950
PROFIT 0.01065


I could post more, but you get the picture. Since people[not just Chase] reading this think it will be so easy for me to 'lose all my money', it shouldn't take anyone very long to "prove how wrong I am". Well go on then, make a free demo account with a forex broker, download your brokers mt4 platform, load up nzdcad pair, daily timeframe, make a vertical bar the size 0.01700 vertical length, put exponential moving average on the chart set to 10, and show me some trades using this system, exactly as I've said, and show me that they fail on a regular, reproduceable basis. I doubt most reading this will bother to do that.

I've been doing this for months and know what to look for on the chart so If I have not explained this trading idea very well, feel free to ask.
Updated chart 7, that writing on there may help.

 

[focus]

I could post more, but you get the picture. Since people[not just Chase] reading this think it will be so easy for me to 'lose all my money', it shouldn't take anyone very long to "prove how wrong I am". Well go on then, make a free demo account with a forex broker, download your brokers mt4 platform, load up nzdcad pair, daily timeframe, make a vertical bar the size 0.01700 vertical length, put exponential moving average on the chart set to 10, and show me some trades using this system, exactly as I've said, and show me that they fail on a regular, reproduceable basis. I doubt most reading this will bother to do that.

But chances are that it would take a long time to prove you wrong.

Even if we all decided to try out your strategy and we all make money in the next few weeks it still would not mean that your strategy is good overall. It's easy to make money on the market when everything is going well enough. For the vast majority of the time, things are going well enough. And then comes the time and everything comes crashing down, suddenly and sharply.

Just need to keep asymmetric returns in mind

Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns

I’ve been relistening to Nassim Taleb’s wonderful book Fooled by Randomness, which is a probabalist’s dream read. And if there’s one thing that picking up girls turns you into, it’s a probabalist. Reading it (or listening to it on audio, as I am), you see a great many parallels between stock...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Chase]

@Rain,

The real, big risk is not that you "lose all your money."

It is that you sink a bunch of time into something you expect will make you rich, while not really getting much of anywhere at all.

Guys I have known who were traders didn't get totally wiped out. Instead, they spent 2-3 years always "on the cusp of being profitable" or "finally getting some profitable trades", without ever breaking out of that. We're talking about a guy who starts with a $100K trading investment and then 2-3 years later has $87K left of that, or maybe he's made a little money with it and is at $125K.

But he'd have made more money working at a Wendy's in the meanwhile.

I looked at that guy Davit's forum thread. Presumably this is the top guy there, or one of them. The 1% of the 1%. I don't see anything to indicate how consistently profitable he is, or how replicable his system is. He posts a few screenshots a month of profits, which may or may not be the norm for him. Even if that is the norm, and he's clearing between $300-$1000/day, consistently, with few or no losses (which I doubt), the fact is he's been doing that for YEARS, and he's at best managed a maybe $500-$700/day average take. One wonders why he hasn't been able to use leverage to scale up to infinity, if this system indeed works.

Anyway, as I said -- do as you will.

I addressed arbitrage (which is what Forex trading is) in Post 1 of this thread:

Wealth - How Can I Make Money Right Now?

I've been getting this question a lot in the comments section of my articles. I'm not an authority on making money... I'm sure there are plenty of guys who know better than I do. However, since I'm getting asked, I figured I'd just get up a post with everything I know on it to refer guys to in...

www.skilledseducer.com

I said there what I'll say here:

This is the one everyone who's desperate for cash wants to do, and the hardest one to do effectively unless you've got unusual amounts of pluck or an uncommonly good network.

You're not going to come onto my forum and tell me, "Go join this MLM forum and try to tell them MLM doesn't work! You're promptly get BANNED, LOL!" or, "Go join this feminist forum and try to tell them pickup isn't rape! You'll get cancelled before you can make your second post, LMAO!" Same with a Forex true believer pushing someone to a Forex forum.

Forums are insular communities that don't want to waste their time debating with outsiders.

This, on the other hand, is a general thread on making money on relatively short notice.

You "started Forex last year" and are "just getting profitable now." One, has nothing to do with this thread, which is for short term / immediate money making. Two, again, you want to argue that "Forex is the way" -- 10-12 years ago you used to meet guys who were doing $10K to $30K a month off Forex trading, but a lot of regulatory things changed, and all the guys who were doing Forex trading took their winnings and switched over to better/easier/more profitable lines of work.

Now, 10 years too late, you are coming on here singing the praises of Forex trading... it's like you want to tell me about this great new thing you just discovered, this new way to make money, called "Google AdSense", and if you just do a bunch of forum and comment spam you can rank a website really high in Google Search and make a ton of AdSense revenue. Yeah, that was the thing everyone was doing pre-2011, and it worked pretty well up until then, and I imagine there are still a few people doing it now, but there's a reason the niche has shrunk by tons and all the smartest people have left it.

Three, we don't know how profitable you are, and in my general experience most people like to talk about "being profitable" when they are in fact marginally profitable.

I don't know, maybe you maxed out your 401(k) last year and just bought your new Lambo last month. But I'm guessing this profitability is still more "promise... a hint of what is to come!" than you paying off your student loans or buying a new house for Mom & Dad.

You're doing the thing, you're deep in it, I understand.

I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. You're just going to go on the Forex forum and complain about how non-Forex traders don't realize what they're missing.

But I don't want other people reading this thread to get this "Oh man, I bet I can just make SO much money trading Forex!" nonsense in their heads.


@Train,

Hey @Chase, this is Train (Rain with a T lol). Would you say entrepreneurship / small business or real estate are more viable pathways to accumulate wealth vs a regular corporate gig based on your experiences or those of successful acquaintances?

I've always heard the "Big 3" as entrepreneurship, real estate, and stocks. The last I'm mostly just passive investing via a total stock market ETF. However, the former 2 seem to offer more control in terms of deploying your money.

My plan is to set up multiple active income streams, semi-automate them, and then better pursue passions (studying PhD, traveling, etc.) knowing wealth is taken care of and I am "retired" (i.e. not bound to the corporate 9-5).

Thanks for the clarification

Entrepreneurship is generally hard without solid experience working in business already and in particular without working in your niche.

The general recommendation there is "get a job working for someone doing what you want to do first, then once you know how it all works and have a bunch of experience working with the customer base and a good idea about what needs customers have that aren't getting addressed, go and start your own thing."

There's a reason why the average billion-dollar business founder is in his 40s, and has already spent ~20 years working in the industry before he wades into entrepreneurship. You just have way more business skills and better business understanding.

Real estate, well, it depends on what you want to do in real estate. You do NOT want to be in as a general real estate broker right now. What I am hearing from real estate is there are more brokers than there are houses for sale at the moment. A lot of people fell on hard times last year, and a lot of their responses were to go and become licensed realtors. There's a glut of competition, and few homes up for sale.

Commercial real estate could be different. I ran a few real estate businesses in the past and the goal with these was always to move quickly to commercial (both were decently profitable, but a lot of work; one died due to partner in-fighting, and the other I wasn't interested in managing myself and my manager left and I did not replace her, so we shut it down). But again, with commercial, you have this situation where tons of small businesses have shuttered, tons of large companies have moved from office to remote work... so it is probably not going to be a good time for that either.

That said, if you are buying real estate, that might be fine.

But, again, prices are inflating -- we're basically in another real estate bubble, due to all the massive buying of mortgage bonds the Fed is engaged in right now (one of the many places it is putting all that money it's printing). So it's hard to say if now's a good time to buy. It seems to me like the Fed is trapped in a cycle now where it is basically going to have to keep printing money to buoy up stocks and real estate until confidence in the dollar is shot... so you would expect these things to just keep appreciating in price for a while. In which case, it'd be better to buy now then wait. But, nobody really knows.

If you can set up passive income, that's definitely ideal!

Although I will say... Girls Chase was supposed to be passive... and here I am 10 years later sinking many hours a day into this business.

Be careful what 'passive income' streams you choose... not all of them are as 'passive' as others

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

Although I will say... Girls Chase was supposed to be passive... and here I am 10 years later sinking many hours a day into this business.

Be careful what 'passive income' streams you choose... not all of them are as 'passive' as others

ALSO to everyone,

No one talks about saving money. - GaryVee

z@c+

 

[Tim Iron]

In my opinion, making a decent income consistently from bitcoin (cryptocurrencies), forex and binary trading is very difficult to maintain on the long run. If you are going to earn a living starring at a computer for hours each day, it is a lot better to master an IT discipline, you would keep getting better and amassing real skills.

 

[trashKENNUT]

bitcoin (cryptocurrencies), forex and binary trading

Bitcoin - long game
Forex - Not something that you own
Binary trading - Not something that you own

To add into Tayo's notes.

Basically, you don't really have a list, and you are in the business and working on the business. Also, there's no leverage except the leverage inside the game. This must be something that you need to think.

A lot of people today are very successful 'entrepreneurs'.

'Entrepreneurs' here mean Partners/Associate. And even Associates have different level

In case some of you guys put this 'successful' people on the pedastal, they really are just doing the classic battering ram of spamming ads and networking, and not having a tangible. I work with them before. I will work with them more in the current future soon.

To add from my journal on the tangible, this is why SAAS has been on the rise. It's basically second level from owning property and earning rent.

SAAS is an tangible.
Anyway, when people talk about 'real' skills, they actually mean tangible (property/life skills/SAAS/structural things like internet)

z@c+

 

[Train]

In my opinion, making a decent income consistently from bitcoin (cryptocurrencies), forex and binary trading is very difficult to maintain on the long run. If you are going to earn a living starring at a computer for hours each day, it is a lot better to master an IT discipline, you would keep getting better and amassing real skills.

After my trading journey this past year, I've come to this realization as well.

Did I make money trading? Yes. But I could have made more leaving it in a boring ETF. Both returns not being earth-shattering or life-changing. And that's not accounting for the inflation too.

I think my efforts are better allocated somewhere that I have more control (i.e. entrepreneurship) and the asymmetrical returns I am looking for.

I would still invest as I gain wealth. However, I am not going to trade or invest my way to wealth, if that makes sense.

So ideally, I'd make millions through business and live off low-risk passive income after accumulating a sufficient pot of money. Instead of taking high-risk trades to get those millions.

 

[ulrich]

@Rain,

The real, big risk is not that you "lose all your money."

It is that you sink a bunch of time into something you expect will make you rich, while not really getting much of anywhere at all.

Hi @Chase,

This one really struck a chord with me.

I spent the last three years developing an online course that was “just about to make it big” and then pandemic started and my automated webinars sales drop to zero.
The funny thing is after that I noticed most people in the Spanish “online course business” are struggling to make consistent earnings… that wasn’t just me… it’s most guys I know.

I don’t know if I will drop the course altogether… if I keep going it’s definitely not going to be through webinars… that vehicle now is too crowded… but I digress…

My question is, how do you prevent yourself forom falling in a niche like that were it seems you are going to make it but it never truly happens?
I’d really like to not sink three more years of my life on something that won’t grow.

 

[trashKENNUT]

My question is, how do you prevent yourself forom falling in a niche like that were it seems you are going to make it but it never truly happens?
I’d really like to not sink three more years of my life on something that won’t grow.

Funny that I happened to kinda know the answer.

This video starting at 25:40 and all the way to the end. Go listen to it. I arrive at the same conclusion.

Don't waste your time. I hope this helps. Because I mentally reached the same conclusion.

All the best. Bless.

z@c+

 

[Tim Iron]

My question is, how do you prevent yourself forom falling in a niche like that were it seems you are going to make it but it never truly happens?
I’d really like to not sink three more years of my life on something that won’t grow.

There are some niches that have the "false dreams - become rich passively" smell (i.e. cryptocurrencies, forex, binary trading etc). However in some cases, it is how you structure the business that is the main issue and not the niche itself.

If I decided to go solo and start a company (business), I would only choose a model that is easy to pitch to investors. There are some business models that are difficult to get investors to even look at. For example, a learning site like FrenchPod101 can get investors, but a regular content site would struggle to get investors.

 

[Chase]

@uriel,

Ah man, I'm sorry to hear that. That's definitely frustrating.

Well, the first order of business is to research the industry you're going into. How big's the market, who are the major players, how are they making their money, what kind of money are they making. Also, how much of that is profits?

I knew a guy who ran a supplements business doing $1 million/year in revenues who got audited by the IRS because he claimed no profits. He was outside the US and had to hire an accountant to get on calls with them to explain that no, really, he really had no profits -- he was so obsessed with getting higher and higher revenues that he cranked his advertising campaigns all the way up to the point where he hit his revenue targets, but only broke even throughout the year! Imagine running $1 million through your business and ending the year poorer than you began it because you couldn't even pay for your life expenses from it.

One of the businesses I started I kicked off because I thought it would be a good idea. I worked for a month in the area, thought I could do it better, then started my own company. The business I'd worked for was sloppy and unprofessional, so I assumed I was going to make a killing by doing it more professionally than that guy. What I hadn't realized was there were actually some huge businesses in the space gobbling up most of the clients, and they were SUPER professional. By the time we figured that out we were knee-deep in the business, dumping money into sales people and creative and social media marketing and God knows what else, and we couldn't make sales because there were things about the industry we'd completely misunderstood (such as the importance of a professional-looking office for clients to visit before they'd sign with you; we were running our out of a modified apartment).

I will say it helps to close things quick. I shut down that business I just mentioned within about 5 months of running it, simply because I couldn't afford to keep losing money at the rate we were. The team and the other founders were all telling me they really thought the business would work, and maybe it would've, but I couldn't afford to gamble on it longer. I had an elite social club that was taking off later that summer I pulled the plug on when we struggled to monetize and my cofounder confessed she didn't really care about that and was happy just having a bunch of high level, successful people to socialize with (I realized she'd be dead weight and I'd need to do the whole thing myself and I gave up wanting to). I almost shut Girls Chase down in 2012 to switch full time to conversions consulting... but fortunately (or not?) one of my conversions experiments succeeded and we doubled our revenues month-over-month late that summer and finally achieved healthy profit.

@Karea Ricardus D. launched a business back 2012-ish after spending a year studying online marketing and eight months comparing different markets and niches he could found something in. Once he found a market that seemed promising, with other players who were in it making solid money, but whose methods were not the best, and he had a good feel for who all the big players were and where he could improve upon them, he went into it and did quite well for himself.

There's really not a guarantee you're going to make it with any new thing you do.

But I would say there's a difference between "here's this business I'm going to run" vs. "here's this activity I'm going to engage in for money."

A business is about building something other people are going to want. So you have to ask yourself how many people there are who want it, how badly they want it, and how much they're willing to pay for it (and if they realize it's something worth paying for -- or are you going to have to educate them? And if so, how easy or hard will that be?).

An activity you'll get paid for (i.e., arts, writing, consulting, trading, etc.) is about doing something that nets a return. You need to be looking at how people make money doing that, how much they make as a median, and for what inputs (i.e., how much time & money), and how much of it is skill vs. how much is chance. A good design consultant, for instance, is pretty much all skill: this is someone who is excellent at design, as well as excellent at finding and securing new clients, whether through referrals, through a website, through outsourcing platforms, or the like. A good trader is usually just a lucky trader; people can talk about their models and whatnot all they like, but you're not outsmarting 170 IQ quants on Wall Street with insider information and million-dollar algorithms. Anything you read about trading, if it's honest and not marketing, will compare successful traders and unsuccessful traders over time and demonstrate it's basically all down to probability. Successful traders are literally lucky traders; if you have 10,000 people flip a coin 100 times each, there are going to be a few of them who get heads 80+ times. Those are your successful traders. They'll tell you they've figured out a way to flip a coin in just such a way that it lands on heads. But the truth is, they're random outliers who got there probablistically, not via skill.

If that's a sort of messy and disorganized response, I would say: approach it the same way a good gambler (who knows it is all luck) approaches it.

Give yourself a specific set of markers you need to hit, and stick to it.

Like with Girls Chase in 2012, I told myself, "Unless I can get it to $N profit by Y date, I put this company on autopilot, cut time and money investments down to zero, and focus on other things." At the same time I was also working on that social club, for which I set a similar goal. The end date rolled around; I'd managed to get GC making enough money, but the social club I hadn't. So I quit the social club and I kept working on GC. If I'd failed to get GC there I'd have quit working on GC too.

(actually, I am in a somewhat similar position with Girls Chase again. After performing well throughout 2017, 2018, and part of 2019, the business began to slide into decline. We tried a lot of great ideas last year; every one of them failed; and we posted a pretty substantial losing year. I have ideas to bring the business back, but I'm practical about it; I won't just abandon it, but if it's not going to recover I'll have to start thinking soon about what comes next for me, and what happens with GC if it isn't going to bounce back. I have a lot of things I want to do in life, and nursing an unprofitable business isn't really one of them. So, once again, I have set myself a "$N profit by Y date" goal -- and once again we'll see if I can hit it, and bring about another GC renaissance. Do I still have some of the old magic left, or has my bag of pixie dust run dry? Stay tuned to find out!)

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

I have a lot of things I want to do in life, and nursing an unprofitable business isn't really one of them. So, once again, I have set myself a "$N profit by Y date" goal -- and once again we'll see if I can hit it, and bring about another GC renaissance. Do I still have some of the old magic left, or has my bag of pixie dust run dry? Stay tuned to find out!)

Just maintain the forum, please.

Or you will see your email get flooded by me again.

Worse than a complete beginner!

z@c+

 

[Chase]

@ZacAdam,

Just maintain the forum, please.

Or you will see your email get flooded by me again.

Worse than a complete beginner!

z@c+

If and when I leave the seduction business (I mean... everyone leaves eventually), the forum will endure.

I've already seen multiple forums I very much liked get sunk after they sold off to acquirers who didn't take care of them or their owners just abandoned them and quit maintaining them. I don't want that happening to anything I set up.

The only way this place will get creamed or unmaintained is if I get hit by a bus before putting a succession plan in place or handing it off to someone I definitely know cares...

... or if it keels over and dies on its own (but I don't think that's too likely; not so long as we've got good folks around who want to talk girls, social dynamics, and manly life pursuits).

Chase

 

[Will_V]

@uriel,

Ah man, I'm sorry to hear that. That's definitely frustrating.

Well, the first order of business is to research the industry you're going into. How big's the market, who are the major players, how are they making their money, what kind of money are they making. Also, how much of that is profits?

I knew a guy who ran a supplements business doing $1 million/year in revenues who got audited by the IRS because he claimed no profits. He was outside the US and had to hire an accountant to get on calls with them to explain that no, really, he really had no profits -- he was so obsessed with getting higher and higher revenues that he cranked his advertising campaigns all the way up to the point where he hit his revenue targets, but only broke even throughout the year! Imagine running $1 million through your business and ending the year poorer than you began it because you couldn't even pay for your life expenses from it.

One of the businesses I started I kicked off because I thought it would be a good idea. I worked for a month in the area, thought I could do it better, then started my own company. The business I'd worked for was sloppy and unprofessional, so I assumed I was going to make a killing by doing it more professionally than that guy. What I hadn't realized was there were actually some huge businesses in the space gobbling up most of the clients, and they were SUPER professional. By the time we figured that out we were knee-deep in the business, dumping money into sales people and creative and social media marketing and God knows what else, and we couldn't make sales because there were things about the industry we'd completely misunderstood (such as the importance of a professional-looking office for clients to visit before they'd sign with you; we were running our out of a modified apartment).

I will say it helps to close things quick. I shut down that business I just mentioned within about 5 months of running it, simply because I couldn't afford to keep losing money at the rate we were. The team and the other founders were all telling me they really thought the business would work, and maybe it would've, but I couldn't afford to gamble on it longer. I had an elite social club that was taking off later that summer I pulled the plug on when we struggled to monetize and my cofounder confessed she didn't really care about that and was happy just having a bunch of high level, successful people to socialize with (I realized she'd be dead weight and I'd need to do the whole thing myself and I gave up wanting to). I almost shut Girls Chase down in 2012 to switch full time to conversions consulting... but fortunately (or not?) one of my conversions experiments succeeded and we doubled our revenues month-over-month late that summer and finally achieved healthy profit.

@Karea Ricardus D. launched a business back 2012-ish after spending a year studying online marketing and eight months comparing different markets and niches he could found something in. Once he found a market that seemed promising, with other players who were in it making solid money, but whose methods were not the best, and he had a good feel for who all the big players were and where he could improve upon them, he went into it and did quite well for himself.

There's really not a guarantee you're going to make it with any new thing you do.

But I would say there's a difference between "here's this business I'm going to run" vs. "here's this activity I'm going to engage in for money."

A business is about building something other people are going to want. So you have to ask yourself how many people there are who want it, how badly they want it, and how much they're willing to pay for it (and if they realize it's something worth paying for -- or are you going to have to educate them? And if so, how easy or hard will that be?).

An activity you'll get paid for (i.e., arts, writing, consulting, trading, etc.) is about doing something that nets a return. You need to be looking at how people make money doing that, how much they make as a median, and for what inputs (i.e., how much time & money), and how much of it is skill vs. how much is chance. A good design consultant, for instance, is pretty much all skill: this is someone who is excellent at design, as well as excellent at finding and securing new clients, whether through referrals, through a website, through outsourcing platforms, or the like. A good trader is usually just a lucky trader; people can talk about their models and whatnot all they like, but you're not outsmarting 170 IQ quants on Wall Street with insider information and million-dollar algorithms. Anything you read about trading, if it's honest and not marketing, will compare successful traders and unsuccessful traders over time and demonstrate it's basically all down to probability. Successful traders are literally lucky traders; if you have 10,000 people flip a coin 100 times each, there are going to be a few of them who get heads 80+ times. Those are your successful traders. They'll tell you they've figured out a way to flip a coin in just such a way that it lands on heads. But the truth is, they're random outliers who got there probablistically, not via skill.

If that's a sort of messy and disorganized response, I would say: approach it the same way a good gambler (who knows it is all luck) approaches it.

Give yourself a specific set of markers you need to hit, and stick to it.

Like with Girls Chase in 2012, I told myself, "Unless I can get it to $N profit by Y date, I put this company on autopilot, cut time and money investments down to zero, and focus on other things." At the same time I was also working on that social club, for which I set a similar goal. The end date rolled around; I'd managed to get GC making enough money, but the social club I hadn't. So I quit the social club and I kept working on GC. If I'd failed to get GC there I'd have quit working on GC too.

(actually, I am in a somewhat similar position with Girls Chase again. After performing well throughout 2017, 2018, and part of 2019, the business began to slide into decline. We tried a lot of great ideas last year; every one of them failed; and we posted a pretty substantial losing year. I have ideas to bring the business back, but I'm practical about it; I won't just abandon it, but if it's not going to recover I'll have to start thinking soon about what comes next for me, and what happens with GC if it isn't going to bounce back. I have a lot of things I want to do in life, and nursing an unprofitable business isn't really one of them. So, once again, I have set myself a "$N profit by Y date" goal -- and once again we'll see if I can hit it, and bring about another GC renaissance. Do I still have some of the old magic left, or has my bag of pixie dust run dry? Stay tuned to find out!)

Chase

Sorry to hear things are rough, Girls Chase has been an absolute treasure trove of information for me on my learning journey. Hope you find a way to keep it going and make plenty of money as well!

I also find the forum very valuable, if nothing else simply for a place where men can be honest and open about things. That's an incredibly rare thing to find these days, where everyone is trying to watch what they say and toe the line.

I think the world is truly becoming a place where online groups formed around shared principles will become necessary and much more common. It's a natural consequence of the fact that these groups are the only structure still flexible enough to evade the social police and not be affected by physical/geographical limitations, since (so far) the internet is still relatively free - even though that's changing. And online is also where all the money and power are converging, with not just the 'digital nomad' trend but the 'digital gang' becoming a thing as well.

Plenty of opportunities to be taken along this trend, I would say.

 

[trashKENNUT]

In a parallel universe, far far away *touchwood*,

Zac manages to find out what happened. Before @Chase meet his bus demise, he was flirting with female doctor!

 

[Chase]

In a parallel universe, far far away *touchwood*,

Zac manages to find out what happened. Before @Chase meet his bus demise, he was flirting with female doctor!

Turns out I was death all along, incarnated in this body to learn about love, via the trappings of seduction.

#whatatwist


@Will_V,

Sorry to hear things are rough, Girls Chase has been an absolute treasure trove of information for me on my learning journey. Hope you find a way to keep it going and make plenty of money as well!

I also find the forum very valuable, if nothing else simply for a place where men can be honest and open about things. That's an incredibly rare thing to find these days, where everyone is trying to watch what they say and toe the line.

I think the world is truly becoming a place where online groups formed around shared principles will become necessary and much more common. It's a natural consequence of the fact that these groups are the only structure still flexible enough to evade the social police and not be affected by physical/geographical limitations, since (so far) the internet is still relatively free - even though that's changing. And online is also where all the money and power are converging, with not just the 'digital nomad' trend but the 'digital gang' becoming a thing as well.

Plenty of opportunities to be taken along this trend, I would say.

I think GC will be okay. I'm back hustling like it's 2016 again (when we dealt with another major slump). Guess I'm the sort who needs a little fire under him to get it in gear.

It seems like forums in general have slowly died out, to me. At least compared to years ago.

There are still some that are very active. But many are less so. A lot of what used to happen on forums has migrated to Facebook and Reddit.

I suppose as the censors crack down on those places it might lead to a resurgence of decentralized forums again.

One would hope so.

Tim Wu makes the case that the Internet will eventually be controlled the way radio, TV, and film ended up in The Master Switch.

Still, we're 30 years in, and it remains quite free, with plenty of evolution happening to help keep it that way.

It almost seems like the censors are pushing the web to de-centralize again, after a prolonged period of centralization.

So I'm hopeful.

A good forum's a truly valuable place, at least for the members who use it.

It's better IMO if there are more of them, and they're more active. In any field a man finds interesting.

Chase

 

[Will_V]

@Will_V,


I think GC will be okay. I'm back hustling like it's 2016 again (when we dealt with another major slump). Guess I'm the sort who needs a little fire under him to get it in gear.

That's good to hear!

It seems like forums in general have slowly died out, to me. At least compared to years ago.

There are still some that are very active. But many are less so. A lot of what used to happen on forums has migrated to Facebook and Reddit.

I suppose as the censors crack down on those places it might lead to a resurgence of decentralized forums again.

One would hope so.

Tim Wu makes the case that the Internet will eventually be controlled the way radio, TV, and film ended up in The Master Switch.

Still, we're 30 years in, and it remains quite free, with plenty of evolution happening to help keep it that way.

It almost seems like the censors are pushing the web to de-centralize again, after a prolonged period of centralization.

So I'm hopeful.

A good forum's a truly valuable place, at least for the members who use it.

It's better IMO if there are more of them, and they're more active. In any field a man finds interesting.

Chase

I think online groups are becoming more private but more powerful. Especially around red pill stuff (which I pay attention to as an important cultural trend) I've started to see some examples of a focus on building a tight network rather than having a more open public type of place. I don't know where this will lead but it comes across as a narrower, deeper form of organization.

Seems to me the internet is becoming regulated indirectly through a combination of creating greater dependency on certain complex infrastructure, and centralizing it. It might be difficult to ban something from the internet, but if you own the social networks and servers you can make it effectively disappear. And there are a lot of instances where social networks and governments are getting very close to and influencing eachother, so a mix of centralized ownership, massaging algorithms and 'soft' regulation may turn out to have a very strong pressure without arousing too much of a reaction.

But I think for the foreseeable future, groups that simply want to exist online, rather than have a large public presence, will be able to do so fairly easily. Unless somehow people can be scared into giving up the possibility of online freedom.