How consistent are you? Question for advanced guys

[Jan]

I've been seducing women for years and I had lots of success along the way, but one thing which still seems pretty effemeral for me is consistency.

Apart from online game when I've reached a pretty high level of consistency (about 80-90% likelihood to get laid on the first or second date), apart from that, my bar, day or social game is pretty on and off.

I realized that my game depends on my vibe strongly (more so than in online game), it depends on momentum too, and I tend to forget things. I only realize the mistakes I made post factum and I'm not able to correct them during the day/night out.

If you are on the advanced level, let's say you go out 10 times with 3-4 hours session, on how many days/nights would you get laid? And if you are on anything higher than 50%, what do you think helped you the most to reach this level of consistency?

 

[isildur1]

Having good wingmen made me more productive - of course good reliable wingmen are hard to find and it takes time- even more so post Covid where the community has died a fair amount.

my daygame was on and off - most the time when I was proactive and had a good vibe was when my mediation, exercise and smv was well maintained but sometimes procrastination would set in especially when I was gaming on my own or bad dates/ blow outs would disrupt my daygame flow and productivity . My best results was when i was the most consistent in social interactions , consistent in opening and making sure the sets were done well with good effort of course maintaining that mental frame is tough- even the best lose it some times but I saw a lot of high smv men lose the mental battle with themselves rather than with the women they were approaching

daygame is tough- the times when I was the most proactive I got the best results the times when I was overthinking, lazy and letting negative pre approach judgement thoughts like “oh she has a boyfriend “ or “ oh she doesn’t seem friendly “ take over my mind or as Tom torero. Refers it as “squirrels”

the mental battle is ongoing - it never ends you just gotta fight through it - tools like meditation, sauna use (to decrease cortisol) and wingmen can help you beat it . But you just gotta be resilient and keep going.

As self help guruy as it sounds that’s pretty much it

 

[isildur1]

Having good wingmen made me more productive - of course good reliable wingmen are hard to find and it takes time- even more so post Covid where the community has died a fair amount.

my daygame was on and off - most the time when I was proactive and had a good vibe was when my mediation, exercise and smv was well maintained but sometimes procrastination would set in especially when I was gaming on my own or bad dates/ blow outs would disrupt my daygame flow and productivity . My best results was when i was the most consistent in social interactions , consistent in opening and making sure the sets were done well with good effort of course maintaining that mental frame is tough- even the best lose it some times but I saw a lot of high smv men lose the mental battle with themselves rather than with the women they were approaching

daygame is tough- the times when I was the most proactive I got the best results the times when I was overthinking, lazy and letting negative pre approach judgement thoughts like “oh she has a boyfriend “ or “ oh she doesn’t seem friendly “ take over my mind or as Tom torero. Refers it as “squirrels”

the mental battle is ongoing - it never ends you just gotta fight through it - tools like meditation, sauna use (to decrease cortisol) and wingmen can help you beat it . But you just gotta be resilient and keep going.

As self help guruy as it sounds that’s pretty much it

Sorry I was typing on mobile -
“When I let those negative thoughts take over my mind was when I did the worse game and had the worse interactions and daygame sets”

 

[isildur1]

I think that last question depends on where you are approaching - if you approach in conservative countries then the approach to lay ratio will obviously take time to mature like for example Ukraine or Dubai . If you’re doing night game in a liberal place like Sweden or the US then it will take a lot less approaches it also depends on your SMV compared to the people around you in that city - in Brazil and China my approach to lay ratio was far lower than in London and Dubai for example - again the answers you will get will depend on said person’s smv in relation to the people around him plus the daygame consistency and ideologies of the women he approaches .



Another example You’re going to get wildly different statistics from someone who does nightgame in Sweden than in China for example as in China there is very little pda and really next to no making out in clubs . Whereas in Sweden women are incredibly open and usually dtf on the first meet

 

[Jan]

Hi @isildur1 Thanks for the thorough answer. Very useful.

Vibe in day game seems to be the most difficult to consistently maintain. For me at least. I meditate, exercise and have good rest most of the days, however, this seems to be not enough to consistently maintain the vibe. It surely helps, but it's not consistent. My most recent conclusion is that in order to have better control over vibe (and therefore more consistent vibe and results), approaching in large numbers and in consecutive days is necessary. It seems to me that part of the vibe in day game is social dominance. There is no social proof to rely on, so basically you've got to build everything from scratch. Maybe that's why day game seems to one of the most difficult types of game.

And the only way to have social dominance is to keep interacting with people (not only women). It's funny because I convinced myself that having above intermediate skills level should be enough to approach and lead without much trouble and rejection. But it's not the case for me. At least not at this level. As you said...

"the mental battle is ongoing - it never ends you just gotta fight through it - [...] . But you just gotta be resilient and keep going."

I'm fortunate to have enough time on hand these days, so I guess I will just have to do what I did in the past, again. Just go through the whole learning cycle again, including all the incoming pain, rejections, anxiety, etc.

 

[Jan]

@isildur1 sideways question: have you ever tried to seduce for mmf thresome with your wing?

 

[isildur1]

Hi @isildur1 Thanks for the thorough answer. Very useful.

Vibe in day game seems to be the most difficult to consistently maintain. For me at least. I meditate, exercise and have good rest most of the days, however, this seems to be not enough to consistently maintain the vibe. It surely helps, but it's not consistent. My most recent conclusion is that in order to have better control over vibe (and therefore more consistent vibe and results), approaching in large numbers and in consecutive days is necessary. It seems to me that part of the vibe in day game is social dominance. There is no social proof to rely on, so basically you've got to build everything from scratch. Maybe that's why day game seems to one of the most difficult types of game.

And the only way to have social dominance is to keep interacting with people (not only women). It's funny because I convinced myself that having above intermediate skills level should be enough to approach and lead without much trouble and rejection. But it's not the case for me. At least not at this level. As you said...

"the mental battle is ongoing - it never ends you just gotta fight through it - [...] . But you just gotta be resilient and keep going."

I'm fortunate to have enough time on hand these days, so I guess I will just have to do what I did in the past, again. Just go through the whole learning cycle again, including all the incoming pain, rejections, anxiety, etc.

Things that killed my vibe were

. Negative wingmen or unambitious wingmen - funny enough I did daygame with one of Tom torero’s ex wingmen and the guy was terrible he didn’t approach for 4 whole hours and claimed to be a natural but didn’t even open a single girl the whole time- my point is everything is easier said than done and being proactive is hard because at some stage the ego is going to get shattered and you will not look “cool” too many people are posers in the space and talk a lot of talk but when they walk the walk you will realise the majority of them are just full of shit and probably have a higher rejection rate than you do

I think this is a a big reason why some of my best looking friends who tried daygame actually gave up . I once went for a daygame session with a male model once and watched him get blown out continually 8 sets in a row. That moment I realised no matter who I become or what I am I’ll never simply be enough for every woman no matter what I do and that no man no matter how high or low their smv is safe from rejection. My male model friend gave up daygame after one session- for him I assume it was the first time he ever actually faced proper rejection in his life - in online game , night game you’re somewhat protected by being behind a screen (online) or a bar with alcohol and flashing lights and in social circle game he was always seen as the best looking. With daygame everyone from a male 10 to a male 1 is prone to humiliation and rejection - it’s the rawest form of game and even though I believe it’s the most rewarding by far it has a high failure rate because ultimately 99 percent of men can’t take the mental battle. Vibe and flow are valuable because they are scarce - I gotta accept my vibe won’t always be perfect and that it’s psychologically very difficult to always be in flow. I agree - being continually social is really important .

. Too much time spent infront of screens - working long hours infront of a computer screen and then proceeding to do daygame fucked pretty badly with my vibe - porn is also something that really wrecked me , I think jerking off to porn is the ultimate vibe killer

. Lazyiness- I mean there were often daygame sessions where I’d be outright lazy and that’s about it- the majority of the men I winged with also had that problem they refused to open sets because girls “weren’t their type” reality was most of the time it was just an ego defence mechanism to protect themselves from either getting hurt or the burden of leading as a man - the best wingmen I met simply just approached and do so with great enthusiasm of course they had other attractive traits but a proactive and can do attitude goes a hell of a long way my best daygame results unironically came
When I was just being consistently social throughout the day .

 

[Jan]

I have no idea about gaming with a wing during day game, never done it. I guess it is isn't that you approach together, more like everyone approaches solo but you reunite for comaraderie, innit?

I totally agree about the screens and porn. This is probably the worst.

I wouldn't discount laziness though. In my view, laziness is a subconscious mechanism which tells you that you are trying to force yourself through consious mind (ego) to do something which either is not good for you because you don't really want it/need it (lack of motivation) or the action you are trying to force is high effort/low return type of action. At this stage of life I'm not motivated to chase quantity so much, unless I know it's gonna be a low effort chick (dtf). So in this sense, I would be lazy to approach 6s and 7s. I wouldn't have motivation to do that, and my laziness is glad to remind me of that.

Think about the kind of emotion you feel when you are lazy. It's not really fear. It's internal resistance. If laziness was a defense mechanism to protect from rejection/being hurt, you would feel fear not resistance.

 

[isildur1]

I have no idea about gaming with a wing during day game, never done it. I guess it is isn't that you approach together, more like everyone approaches solo but you reunite for comaraderie, innit?

I totally agree about the screens and porn. This is probably the worst.

I wouldn't discount laziness though. In my view, laziness is a subconscious mechanism which tells you that you are trying to force yourself through consious mind (ego) to do something which either is not good for you because you don't really want it/need it (lack of motivation) or the action you are trying to force is high effort/low return type of action. At this stage of life I'm not motivated to chase quantity so much, unless I know it's gonna be a low effort chick (dtf). So in this sense, I would be lazy to approach 6s and 7s. I wouldn't have motivation to do that, and my laziness is glad to remind me of that.

Think about the kind of emotion you feel when you are lazy. It's not really fear. It's internal resistance. If laziness was a defense mechanism to protect from rejection/being hurt, you would feel fear not resistance.

Wingmen that are good quality can be very helpful. They can provide motivation and in general with a good wing I was much more productive - the issue is finding good wingmen are a dime in a dozen and sadly it just takes time and persistence much like anything related to dating .



Speaking from a daygame perspective in London I met a lot of beginner daygamers who were simply lazy. They’d do a couple of days approaching then be done with it- even if they got good feedback they’d simply give up. Most spend the majority of their times on WhatsApp groups or telegrams discussing dating issues and never anytime spent a actually approaching . Only you can be honest about your own drive - for me I didn’t start daygame till i was 26 but deep down I wanted to start age 21 I essentially procrastinated for 5 years defending my ego and protecting myself from getting humiliated- the result left me really lacking experience in my late 20s and I only got my first girlfriend 3 years into doing daygame at 29 . Had I been less lazy I’d most likely have a tonne more lays and more girlfriends



Wingmen are also instant social proof in group sets as it shows youre not a loner which is always a plus in certain scenarios

 

[isildur1]

@isildur1 sideways question: have you ever tried to seduce for mmf thresome with your wing?

No- I’ve never had a threesome as I don’t want another man watching me have sex it never appealed to me although in 2018 I did approach a very promiscuous woman who asked for a threesome from me and my wing but I declined - she was a batshit crazy nutcase and was fucking a lot of new men regularly

in terms of two women one guy I’ve never been offered it but have had wings in London who’ve managed it.

 

[isildur1]

I have no idea about gaming with a wing during day game, never done it. I guess it is isn't that you approach together, more like everyone approaches solo but you reunite for comaraderie, innit?

I totally agree about the screens and porn. This is probably the worst.

I wouldn't discount laziness though. In my view, laziness is a subconscious mechanism which tells you that you are trying to force yourself through consious mind (ego) to do something which either is not good for you because you don't really want it/need it (lack of motivation) or the action you are trying to force is high effort/low return type of action. At this stage of life I'm not motivated to chase quantity so much, unless I know it's gonna be a low effort chick (dtf). So in this sense, I would be lazy to approach 6s and 7s. I wouldn't have motivation to do that, and my laziness is glad to remind me of that.

Think about the kind of emotion you feel when you are lazy. It's not really fear. It's internal resistance. If laziness was a defense mechanism to protect from rejection/being hurt, you would feel fear not resistance.

Just to give you some stats about laziness in the daygame community - game global London WhatsApp group has roughly 1000 members - out of those who consistently go out it was around 30-40 and of those who went out for a period of 1-3 years I’d say 5-10 the dropout rate for game in general is insane - even the leader of the group ice white never got a daygame lay and was hiring women to take photoshoots with to give people the illusion he was dating stunners when in reality he was just using to photos to sell dating products and coaching

most coaches, seducers online are liars or sell outs in some cases and the majority of the men you meet on the forums just don’t approach enough it’s that simple. I used to be one of those people myself who spent a lot of time reading and watching videos but very little time being proactive before late 2017 I started reading on seduction in 2013 so a 4.5 year time lag to get going