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How do you stop being needy?

ocantu1987

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
401
I think this has been my main weakness. I have not had results with women at all and they never show me interest. Im thinking since I do NoFap that it had a part to play in this. Of course your going to be ridiculously horny and look desperate.

I tend to get down on myself for not having women in my life and think they'll make me happy. Been reading "Models" by mark manson and it hit the nail on the head for me. "Why are you so overly invested in women?" he claimed that once he delt with this, women started to pay more attention to him.

He recommends therapy wich is my #1 option, looking to set something up soon. any other tips? Im sure im not the only one, perhaps some of you guys got out of being needy and would like to share please by all means.

Does meditation help?
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Dude909

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Aug 6, 2015
Messages
82
What helps is 1) having a life full of important and interesting things to do and think about, work, friends, hobbies, charity, and ideally a big long term project in which you are entirely focused on (your "mission"), so that women are not that important in your otherwise awesome life,
and 2) always having several women you are fucking and several others you are working on, so that none of them starts taking too much importance in your mind.

Tried and tested by millions of men since the dawn of time.
 

Sophisticated Gent

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Aug 5, 2015
Messages
430
ocantu1987,

We are sexual beings and our natural drive is to procreate with women. Your subconscious is telling you your self worth is based on having sex with a woman. This is true from a animalistic stand point. We as humans have progressed passed the basic needs but they are still deeply ingrain in us. If one of your basic needs are not being fulfilled your mind will become obsessed with this. If you are hungry your brain will consume your thoughts with getting food. The same is true with sex but not in quite an urgent time frame. So I have set the natural frame. Now for the social frame. We are bombarded with sexual references every day from the media and our fellow humans. Society says the best looking and smartest are the highest sexually. This is not true with women. Yes there is physical attraction for women but they are also attracted to dominate confident males. A confident average looking guy will be more attractive to a woman than a handsome needy guy. You have combined your natural need for sex with societies idea of who gets sex to frame yourself as unworthy and needy. This is wrong. We need to get your brain to unlearn this thought process. This does not happen overnight. It takes 20 days to break a bad habit and start a new habit. You are going to have to work hard to change this perspective. To do so you need small incrementally improving victories.

1. Start with approaching a woman you feel is below your level. Someone you are not sexually attracted to. Someone you would not put on a pedestal. This a is someone you that you fell you do not need in your life. Talk with her. Get to know her. The intent is for you to get comfortable talking to a woman and to realize that you do have value to women. Do this with a few women until you feel comfortable doing so.
2. Approach women you would be willing to date. Do the same as in step 1. Your goal is not to set up a date or progress any further. You need to see that these women are not any different than those in step 1. Do this until you are comfortable doing so.
3. We have now set in your brain that women are approachable by you. You are gaining self worth. Follow Chases newbie assignment. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34

You will soon be dating and bedding women you thought were goddess before. You will find that they are not any different that everyone else.
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
798
What the guys said,

But yeah... if you have a lot of free time or spend your free time reading Pickup stuff, it sort of makes you obsess over things.

If I take my life now... When I do everything I want/need to do, there's no time to sit obsessing over other things, I'm preoccupied, lately, the trouble has ben actually organizing dates, numbers, responding somewhat promptly, getting time to rest.

- Go to work (and be awesome!)
- Go to gym
- Play a game once/twice a week.
- Cook
- Do laundry
- Work on some side projects I've got going on
- Go for drinks
- Meet friends
- Actually go meet women or go on a date
- See that movie I wanted to,
- Go to a concert/game/whatever
- After work drinks
- etc, etc, etc...

I'm on the go from 6am - 12pm, 6 hours sleep... wooo, I'm pooped by the end of the week and need a little time to rest too (and go out, haha).
 

Skid

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
129
Hey dude ,

I can definitely relate to the whole only "women can make we happy" sort of mindset. And I also had a huge problem with neediness , especially when starting out - I'd obsess over phone numbers and texting girls and trying to make them like me.

First thing you have to realize is that the mindset of that when you have women in your life you will be happy is bullshit , you can ask anyone you know that if once that they sex with a girl or got a girlfriend did that automatically prevent them from being stressed about work , or in made it impossible to be sad because their friend recently passed away? Of-course not there are many different things that contribute to your present state/how happy you are. In fact sometimes when I'd take breaks from pickup I'd be happy I didn't have to stress about trying to sort out dates or figure out what I did wrong with the girl that recently blew me off. And really I've found that its quite easy to control your sense of happiness and mood by patrolling your thoughts for anything venomous or unhelpful and replacing them - that is probably to this day the most valuable piece of information I've ever gotten from this site.

As far as actually beating neediness you can't really beat it completely 100% gone forever : only minimize it to a point where it very rarely shows up. What helps minimize it is talking to girls a lot and realizing that there are a lot of girls you personally find physically attractive in the world - and that yeah it may suck when you fuck it up with one but there is always going to be more - if you put yourself out there you aren't going to run out of them. Create a habit of just moving on if a girl doesn't seem interested if she flakes on your texts don't bother texting anymore , if she always says she is busy after 3 times (maybe a month of trying to get her out if you really like her with no time constraints) after that forget her you're wasting mental energy. And you'll get better at this more more experienced you become because you will be more calibrated and good and telling when a girl wants nothing to do with you sexually. It's hard at first but once you build on it you'll find yourself almost never getting caught up with girls that didn't do ANYTHING with you.When I first started I got really caught up thinking that you had to use some sort of stupid mind tricks or text in a specific way perfectly to get her to meet you. That's bullshit.

Make a good habit of approaching and talking to girls you find really attractive - because after talking to a ton of them their beauty won't physically effect you anymore and you will still come off as calm and collected when talking to her. Obviously the thoughts "OMG! Her ass is amazing." Never truly go away (but dat ass seriously) it helps if you've seen it before - at least in my experience. Don't be afraid of becoming friends with them also - just make sure enter the friendship with healthy mindsets and none of the white knight stuff that will screw you up. Also spending alot of time with attractive girls and trying to have deeper discussions with them really helps humanize them when you're new. Such as when they tell you about their thoughts and desires and flaws etc. Obviously the other thing that beats neediness is just having some other greater mission that your striving towards and women are an after thought - but I haven't experienced that yet so can't talk about it. But - I'm pretty sure you should make sure that you have decent social and escalation skills & be comfortable around attractive women before you can get anywhere near that level. All of this helps take them off the pedestal and humanizes them which is a big contributor to neediness as well. I mean if you think she is a goddess , and you're a mortal of course you're gonna be needy and not masculine around her - therefore she'll never be attracted to you.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,982
It's just a chicken and egg situation. With some basic skills and mindsets your whole worldview just changes, you have to gather enough positive reference experiences through cold approach to change your brain though. Like, right now I have a girlfriend, but my whole mindset is different than it was in previous relationships, because I know that she is replaceable within a finite time period. And, when you've had the experience of so many phone numbers in your phone that you can't remember who everyone is or make time to date them all, all the while having several women earnestly trying to tie you down and not succeeding, well you just aren't as needy around women. That's not to say you won't have a dry spell where the neediness creeps back, but it's a fundamental mindset shift that you're trying to achieve, and it doesn't evaporate overnight. It's also not created overnight, so the best advice is: (1) fake it till you make it, (2) keep grinding.

I would not pay too much attention to that book "Models". I was impressed with it, but I put the advice into practice consistently for a month and it didn't work for me. Instead, reread Chase's ebook and pick something from it to incorporate into your game. I can't stress enough that fixing your external game REALLY HELPS. And luckily Chase has put together a step-by-step procedure for this, including how not to appear needy (don't qualify yourself, don't lean into conversations, etc). IT REALLY WORKS. I honestly think therapy is useless for this (and I have been to quite a few therapists).

I do recommend two books, "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover and "Healing the Shame that Binds you" by John Bradshaw. I feel like neediness is something to do with feeling that you're missing a piece of you, i.e. that it's not okay to be exactly who you are. These books are incredibly helpful if that's your problem (and if you're considering therapy, then this probably is your problem).

Ray
 

GeneralFap

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
181
I struggle with this too (I either end up being needy when I talk to girls and they lose interest or I end up causing them to go into auto-rejection because I come off as too disinterested; I can never find the middle ground). I think neediness occurs because you have some internal issue you haven't fully dealt with. Could be that you got bullied a lot in school (like me), maybe you bad a bad breakup or you chased a girl for a long time and nothing happened or you had a humiliating experience with women. In essence, something happened that caused you to feel inferior to other people, and you feel like you are not good enough. But it's all bullshit made up by your brain. You are good enough.

Neediness fucking sucks. I hate feeling needy, but like ray-zorse said, you have to fake it till you make it. You have to keep going out talking to girls, sometimes you will come across as needy, but that's just part of the learning process.
 

Skid

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
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Just want to agree with ray and say therapy doesn't really help imo. I went to a therapist and well , he basically said to me pretty much what I already knew , sure we looked at some things in a new light but deep down I was somewhat aware of what he was saying . I feel like therapy is there to build a set of skills to monitor your mental process and come up with with best solution to your problem , and give you the skills to balance your thoughts so that you don't think to badly of yourself but also don't think too highly of yourself. Once you have that skill-set I feel as though its pointless. It's not a magic pill by any means - that's why sometimes it will end up with suggestions of medication. Only you can save yourself so too speak and if you don't want to do that then medication is the answer to force yourself too.
 

Skid

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
129
Just want to agree with ray and say therapy doesn't really help imo. I went to a therapist and well , he basically said to me pretty much what I already knew , sure we looked at some things in a new light but deep down I was somewhat aware of what he was saying . I feel like therapy is there to build a set of skills to monitor your mental process and come up with with best solution to your problem , and give you the skills to balance your thoughts so that you don't think to badly of yourself but also don't think too highly of yourself. Once you have that skill-set I feel as though its pointless. It's not a magic pill by any means - that's why sometimes it will end up with suggestions of medication. Only you can save yourself so too speak and if you don't want to do that then medication is the answer to force yourself too.
 

mb1

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Great topic. Drake just walked into the room and wants your girl. Tell me the plan.

I found Mark's book mentioned with only Chase's book and Practical Female Psychology so had to give it a read.

He has content on GC and calls out concepts like assuming attraction. I always took it as a scholarly sort of standing on the shoulders of giants for anyone who knows that term - constructive argument really.

There are a LOT of gems there and he nails some fundamental points quite clearly. Since he openly challenges things though, I would absolutely read How to Make Girls Chase first and understand the more recent concepts on the GC blog since HTMGC was written, then read Models.

From there he offers a great perspective on the attainability aspect of the VAC model Chase uses. There's more to the book but this (and definitely his section on humor as well) was the most helpful stuff.

It was really cool to see that by being vulnerable (direct interest) you are actually communicating outcome indepedence.
 

Bboy100

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Jan 2, 2015
Messages
1,107
In my experience, there have been three different points to this:
1. Do you want women in order to fill a gap in your life? Or do you want them because you think they would add to the great single life you already have? If its the former, its time to fix the latter. Using women to "solve life's problems" not only creates co-dependence in relationships, but its also like trying to drown out your sorrows/worries via any other type of avoidance type behavior. Its a temporary band aide to a more serious problem (typically low-self esteem). <---I would handle this one first.

In other words, ask yourself this: Am I happy? If the answer is no, figure it out why. And if you think the answer is because you lack women or any other external thing in your life, you're incorrect. In fact, its almost certainly a self-esteem issue. A lot of Psychology would argue that happiness and self-esteem are one and the same (this is not to be confused with actual fulfillment! That is an entirely different topic). I would cite, but I'm too lazy to find articles right now. Sorry!

An example might be: I'm not happybecause I don't have women in my life. <----On the surface, it seems that the solution to your problem would be to acquire women. But if you think about it more carefully, you'll discover that this is only partially true. Sure, if you had women at your disposal always at every single point in your life, I guess it hypothetically would solve your problem. But this is unrealistic. Even experts have dry spells every once in a while. And as soon as that happens, you'll go back to feeling like shit and therefore become needy around women (or whatever else it is that you might think will "make you happy").

So the more effective approach would probably be to address the mindset itself. So lets look at that: You believe that women will make you happy which by definition also means having more women would by your belief system, raise your value as a human being (Remember, happiness=self esteem. And self esteem=how you value your own worth as a person. So therefore, if you think something will make you "happy" that also means you think it will raise your "value" as a person). But that's certainly not objectively true. Ex. There are plenty of scientists, philosophers, artists and so fourth who have contributed to society in many ways and would be considered by most to be much "higher value" than any PUA. And yet, they probably didn't get laid nearly as much. And there are plenty of people who get laid all the time who for the most part, contribute nothing of value to society and to those around them. Given these counterexamples and new found information, your thought process would necessarily wrong. Once you begin to understand this, the issue becomes a Philosophical one. You'll find yourself asking "what does it mean to be a "valuable" person? In fact, my "counterexamples" only work if we accept the paradigm that someone who is of "high value" is someone who contributes to society in positive ways. But that's not necessarily true.

Finding an objective answer to the question is a very deep Philosophical issue. Probably not something you will figure out on own. And from the standpoint of increasing self-esteem, its also irrelevant. To increase self-esteem, you must switch your belief of "needing" something external to something internal (preferably something you already have.) An example of this might be that instead of viewing those who have women as high value, (external thing) you view people who have a relentless drive to succeed in whatever they wish to accomplish. (an internal quality). Once you've successfully implemented this mindset change, you'll find that your neediness towards women (and any other external thing) will be greatly reduced. Instead, you'll find yourself much more "needy" in your want to cultivate whatever quality you deemed to make someone "valuable". The good thing about this is that a quality or characteristic can always be cultivated. Whereas, an external result cannot. So viewing an internal quality as high value can keep you happy forever (assuming you make the effort to cultivate it). As we've already discovered, this is not true with external things (we can't count on always having women or always being rich).

Keep in mind that this is a thought process you'll have to go over many times before you emotionally start to feel its effect. As soon as you start feeling needy, you have to think yourself through all of it again...and again and again. Meditating over this stuff is also very helpful. Its like weightlifting. You can't just do it once and expect to get big. Its a daily activity.

You can apply the same process to any other external reason you might have for low self-worth. Ex. I I'm not because I'm not in shape. Or I'm not because I'm not rich.

I know this seems kinda abstract and complicated, but its similar to what they'll teach you in therapy. I just hope I wrote it in a way that makes sense. haha

2. Like Ray said, you just need more reference points. When I first started, I was really needy/creepy on dates because i felt they were very scarce. As I started getting more dates, I got less needy because I realized there is no limit to the number of dates I can get. And also, I realized most girls are (for the most part) the same in a lot of ways. So I stopped seeing each individual one as "special". So I stopped caring so much. And my overall attractiveness went up. However, I'm still relatively needy around higher quality girls because they're not as abundant to me. Once I start consistently getting dates with high quality girls, the same process is likely to occur.

3. This one is kind of a double edged sword, so be careful with this one: Be curious about the women. Stop trying to just get laid. Make sure you like her personality at least a little bit before you do anything. Have some sort of standards. Even for hookups. Because if you don't, you're automatically putting yourself in a chasing mindset. Cause in your head, she's already been qualified. Whereas in her mind, you're still being evaluated. This will likely reflect in your behavior.

On the other hand, DON'T OVERDO THIS. This is not an excuse not to pull the trigger. In other words, if you're catching yourself thinking things like "Oh, she's not that cute" or "Wow, this girl's a bitch" etc. even when you know deep down that you're attracted to her, then you don't get to use this mindset. Because its become an excuse instead of a tool.

Alternatively, you can also shift from being interested in the girl to being interested in the process. So instead of having the goal of getting laid, you have a goal of figuring out what will get you laid. There's a subtle difference. In the former, you're looking at that specific women. Because in that given moment, she's your best shot at getting laid. Whereas the latter doesn't focus on any specific women at all. It merely uses the one in front of you as a reference point to help figure out what effect it has on women in general.

As for therapists, I wouldn't say they're useless, but know who your therapist is and what he specializes in.
Ex. I have a therapist and he did a GREAT job of helping me get over anxiety/depression issues. This is because in his type of therapy, that's the #1 issue he encounters, so he's very experienced, and its also what his type of therapy is primarily designed for. But once I brought up issues which he doesn't "specialize" in (ex. how to create habits and motivate myself), his advice stopped being so useful. So do your research before you commit to someone.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,488
Great responses, especially about the mind set.

I also believe that you have to change your mind set first. At this time it looks like you are expecting girl to fulfill your life, to make you happy. That's just a normal desire, and at the same time it is wrong attitude. Aim for finding different things in your life that will fulfill you instead of waiting for some girl to make you happy, find things that are more IMPORTANT than the girl

Normal guy's mindset:
She is #1 in my life. Number two is my friends, number three excercise, number 4 school and so on. Because of this mindset he by default chases girls. When you talk to girls with this mind set they know right away that you don't have a life, that you are clinging onto that pussy, that you are immature and insecure. She knows that if she rejects you you will collapse, run back to your mamma crying, become depressed for years... Does she want to be responsible for your misery? Does she want to be your mamma? Nope, she will avoid you, she will not give you a chance... Girls don't want to be OBJECT of your happiness, and thus they run away, many times with fears in their eyes...

More experienced guy's mindset:
#1 is my hobby (whatever it is, weight lifting, driving bike, investing, the more muscular the better). That's simply a must, that's what you live for, and you got to love it. Number two is financial situation - get education, get a job, get your own place, become independent. Open business if you can. If you are smart, you combine #1 and #2 together. She is only number 3 in your life, maybe #4. Now, when you talk to that girl with this mind set she knows right away that you have a life. You have a long life passion, you do something that you love. She knows that if she leaves you you will be fine, you will survive, be happy without her. So why not give you a chance?
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,982
Yeah, very inspiring post by Bboy100. I hadn't really considered the philosophical aspect before, or that happiness = self-esteem, but I will certainly try to adopt those mindsets if I am feeling unhappy or needy.
Ray
 

ocantu1987

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
401
Thanks for the help guys. I will become a stronger version of myself.
 
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